Banishing a creature that has swallowed a PC

[nickl_2000]

1) A Huge Monster is fighting the PCs
2) said huge monster swallows a PC
3a) The swallowed PC banishes the Monster
3b) A different PC banishes the Monster
4) ?



What happens to the PC, do they go with the monster? Do they drop to the ground with a thump?

Addition: what happens to the pc if the monster is from another plane?

[J-H]

3a) the PC lands on the ground and the Purple Worm is elsewhere. Hurray! Clever!
3b) The PC goes with the monster and it's weird.

[Temperjoke]

Well, I'd say the PC goes with the monster that was banished. I mean, all items currently in the creatures direct possession goes with them, otherwise there would be a pile of clothes and weapons left. In the given situation, the PC is within the possession of the monster, voluntary or not. Might be different if they were just being grappled, but since they were swallowed, I'd rule that they would go too.

[LtPowers]

Well, I'd say the PC goes with the monster that was banished. I mean, all items currently in the creatures direct possession goes with them, otherwise there would be a pile of clothes and weapons left. In the given situation, the PC is within the possession of the monster, voluntary or not. Might be different if they were just being grappled, but since they were swallowed, I'd rule that they would go too.

PCs are not objects. And why would it be different for grappling? What about restraining?


Powers &8^]

[loki_ragnarock]

3a) the PC lands on the ground and the Purple Worm is elsewhere. Hurray! Clever!
3b) The PC goes with the monster and it's weird.

Yeah, that's about where I am, too.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'd be inclined to have the player stay behind, more because I think it's a cool tactic than for any rules-based reason.

[Rukelnikov]

3a) the PC lands on the ground and the Purple Worm is elsewhere. Hurray! Clever!
3b) The PC goes with the monster and it's weird.


Yeah, that's about where I am, too.

I'd also go with that, if nothing else because it makes for the most interesting scenario.

EDIT:


I'd be inclined to have the player stay behind, more because I think it's a cool tactic than for any rules-based reason.

This is true tbh.

Maybe try a Spellcasting attribute + prof check to see if the banisher can leave the PC behind or not?

[Wizard_Lizard]

PCs are not objects. And why would it be different for grappling? What about restraining?


Powers &8^]

Not to mention, if the party somehow befriend a monster who can swallow, or like idk eat the bbeg while growing to huge size with rune knight or a potion of giant size (Tho that's in the vein of homebrew at that point), and then willingly get banished, along with the thing they swallowed, bypassing the save, tho again that's already kinda in the realm of homebrew so idk..

[Rukelnikov]

Not to mention, if the party somehow befriend a monster who can swallow, or like idk eat the bbeg while growing to huge size with rune knight or a potion of giant size (Tho that's in the vein of homebrew at that point), and then willingly get banished, along with the thing they swallowed, bypassing the save, tho again that's already kinda in the realm of homebrew so idk..

And that would be awesome! The befriended monster sacrificed itself for the party, if the price the PCs are paying is a loyal ally's life, then its a cool narrative (if all the PCs are easily on board with it, then maybe not lol, but I imagine how that would go in my group, and I think most would be against the monster sacrificing itself, except if it were the only way out of a TPK)

[nickl_2000]

3a) the PC lands on the ground and the Purple Worm is elsewhere. Hurray! Clever!
3b) The PC goes with the monster and it's weird.


Yeah, that's about where I am, too.

I wonder if 3b could be used to plane shift someone? One PC summons a water elemental which whelms an NPC. Second PC banishes the water elemental. NPC is now stuck in the plane of water.





The main reason I ask is because it nearly happened last night. A PC purposely swallowed by a wurm with the expectation to dimension door out. Our party Wizard was going to banish the wurm if the PC didn't show up in 1 round. Luckily the Dim Door worked.

[Wizard_Lizard]

And that would be awesome! The befriended monster sacrificed itself for the party, if the price the PCs are paying is a loyal ally's life, then its a cool narrative (if all the PCs are easily on board with it, then maybe not lol, but I imagine how that would go in my group, and I think most would be against the monster sacrificing itself, except if it were the only way out of a TPK)

Mmmm I just thought of something else though, a spell like dominate monster or whatever on the bbeg's purple worm or whatever, obviously I'm not gonna make a point on whether or not that would feel like a cool story moment or not haha, it all depends on the game I suppose!

[Crucius]

3a) The swallowed PC banishes the Monster


Most swallow conditions impose blinded, and since banishment states you must see the creature, this is going to be a problem. Blinded is a pretty hard counter against spellcasters.



3b) A different PC banishes the Monster


I would treat it no different than a mounted creature; only one gets banished.
It then does beg the question whether non-living things in the stomach get banished as well, but eh, it's magic, the vagueness is there for this kind of latitude to exist imo.

[PhantomSoul]

I would treat it no different than a mounted creature; only one gets banished.
It then does beg the question whether non-living things in the stomach get banished as well, but eh, it's magic, the vagueness is there for this kind of latitude to exist imo.

I think you're safe with that one given it's "objects that are worn or carried" (not specified in the spell, but typically), so if you apply the "worn and carried" to apply to partly digested (but dead) food it's still fine since it's at least an object, while the PC (still-living food) remains a creature. Creatures and objects interact differently with magic pretty consistently, so that's not too bad.

[Keravath]

The PC inside the creature is a separate creature. They don't count as an object. The wording of Banishment would prevent creature in creature situations.

"You attempt to send one creature that you can see within range to another plane of existence."

The spell only sends ONE creature - a swallowed creature would be left behind.


In terms of a purple worm or remorhaz - "A swallowed creature is blinded and restrained"

This means that a swallowed creature in this case could not cast Banishment since they can't see the creature around them and Banishment requires the caster to see the target.

[Rukelnikov]

In terms of a purple worm or remorhaz - "A swallowed creature is blinded and restrained"

This means that a swallowed creature in this case could not cast Banishment since they can't see the creature around them and Banishment requires the caster to see the target.

How? :smallconfused:

[Thunderous Mojo]

Swallowed usually results in the swallowed creature being Blinded and Restrained, and thus a Banishment spell is off the menu.

[Rilmani]

Swallowed usually results in the swallowed creature being Blinded and Restrained, and thus a Banishment spell is off the menu.

Unless the PC has truesight active.

[Thunderous Mojo]

Unless the PC has truesight active.

While Truesight would allow any PC to see through darkness, being Blinded due to being swallowed by a creature may have nothing to do with the lighting levels inside the swallowing creature.

The PC could be Blinded due to stomach acid, or due to their face being pressed against the fleshy innards of whatever swallowed the PC.

Blind Fighting, (and thus Blindsight), will work while swallowed, however.

[ecarden]

I'd be inclined to give the caster an arcana check and tell them what would happen if they rolled well enough. Then I'd have the swallower roll their save, if they fail, then I'd have the swallowed also roll the save. If they succeed, they stay behind. If they fail, they go too.

Then there's the question of where do they go? Do they go to separate demiplanes? Or do they go to the same one? And, if the same one, is the swallowed still swallowed? If so, are they taking constant damage but unable to do anything because they're incapacitated?

[greenstone]

This came up in a game I played in. The GM ruled that banishing the purple worm left the PC behind, on the grounds that doing it the other way resulted in unavoidable death for the character, which is not fun.

This led to a (to be honest, pretty pointless) discussion of parasites and gut bacteria and symbiotes. The idea of using misty step to rid yourself of fleas was somewhat interesting, though.

A warning for mages - when you teleport or plane shift, your familiar does not come with you. Put it into its pocket dimension first.

[False God]

The swallowed PC is only aware some magic is trying to affect them, not what its trying to do, it could be trying to teleport them out, or turn them into candy!

The swallowing creature makes a save first.
The swallowed creature makes a save immediately after IF the former failed.

If the swallowing creature makes the save, the creature in its belly is unaffected.
If the swallowing creature fails, then the swallowed creature makes a save as well, if it fails, they both go. If it succeeds, it stays.

[JohnDaBarr]

By RAW you can't cast Banishment while restrained because you need verbal, somatic and material components for the spell AND material components could be extra tricky if you don't have *An item distasteful to the target*

As a DM I would allow some way to free a hand but if the PC does not have a material component that is distasteful to the target because they didn't anticipate that particular enemy... well then its a problem.

The blinded part is not an issue, at least not in my book, since by virtue of being inside of the target you cant really miss.

Edit:
As for would the caster be banished with the target I would say no. But if someone else cast banishment I would say the food goes with the target.

[Psyren]

3a) the PC lands on the ground and the Purple Worm is elsewhere. Hurray! Clever!
3b) The PC goes with the monster and it's weird.

I'd probably go with 3a for ease of play, but 3b could be really funny.

[quindraco]

1) A Huge Monster is fighting the PCs
2) said huge monster swallows a PC
3a) The swallowed PC banishes the Monster
3b) A different PC banishes the Monster
4) ?



What happens to the PC, do they go with the monster? Do they drop to the ground with a thump?

Addition: what happens to the pc if the monster is from another plane?

100% of all teleportation effects cause the target to take any carried objects with them and not to take any carried creatures with them unless otherwise specified. That's why Misty Step doesn't teleport you naked but also doesn't let you carry passengers. Same thing here. The PC would stay in the initial plane.

[Lord Torath]

The blinded part is not an issue, at least not in my book, since by virtue of being inside of the target you cant really miss.

Edit:
As for would the caster be banished with the target I would say no. But if someone else cast banishment I would say the food goes with the target.I agree on both points.

Regarding being blinded, I would ask "what is the purpose of requiring sight of the target?" Presumably it's so you know where to direct your arcane energies.

If you are literally touching the intended target, I would argue you know quite well where to direct the magic. I would allow this for any spell requiring line-of-sight to the target. If you are in physical contact with the target, you can cast any spells requiring line of sight even while blinded. There could be other factors preventing you from casting, though.

If you have echolocation, I'd allow you to similarly cast spells requiring line of sight at targets within echolocation range. In air, I put that around 50 m (which gives just under 1/3 second delay on the returning echo). Underwater, sound travels about five times faster than in air, so I'd extend that range to 250 m (still around 1/3 second delay)

If anyone has any other reason for needing to visually see your target to cast a spell at it, I'd love to hear it. I don't know everything, and quite likely someone else has thought of something I haven't

[Waterdeep Merch]

I'd rule it as being up to the caster in every circumstance. Being rigid with this can make for wonky scenarios, while making it an optional feature can lead to interesting scenarios at the players' discretion.

[Lunali]

By RAW you can't cast Banishment while restrained because you need verbal, somatic and material components for the spell AND material components could be extra tricky if you don't have *An item distasteful to the target*

As a DM I would allow some way to free a hand but if the PC does not have a material component that is distasteful to the target because they didn't anticipate that particular enemy... well then its a problem.

The blinded part is not an issue, at least not in my book, since by virtue of being inside of the target you cant really miss.

Edit:
As for would the caster be banished with the target I would say no. But if someone else cast banishment I would say the food goes with the target.

Being restrained doesn't inhibit spellcasting in any way. Material components without cost are assumed to be included in a component pouch, no matter how absurd that may be, or you could just use a focus. By RAW, being blinded is the only thing that's actually likely to be a problem.

[chainer1216]

I would have the swallowee left behind because the other option will result in a PC death 9/10 times.