Pied Piper build

[Mordante]

Hello everyone. A friend of mine who plays a human bard level 3 want to try to create a Pied Piper build. Meaning a build where the bard can influence people, or make "suggestions" to people. I had a look for Pied Piper PrCs but I couldn't find much that fits. is there anything that will help to turn a Bard into a crowd control/influencer character. The Bard is the face of the party, if I remember correctly there is a gnome rogue, a gnome swashbuckler, a drow cleric or something, a human wizard, a human warlock, and a lizardfolk something. But most of the time the group is not complete.

We do play an evil part, so feats, builds or PrCs that are morally questionable are welcomed. The build does not need fully optimized or min/max. Roleplaying flavour is important as well.

Can anyone help turn our Bard into a conniving Pied Piper.

[Biggus]

Virtuoso (CAdv p.89) might be worth a look.

[Mordante]

Virtuoso (CAdv p.89) might be worth a look.

Thank you I will have a look.

[Biggus]

Another thought occurred to me: get them to have a look at Enchanter and Beguiler handbooks for feats and items to help with using magic to influence others.

Oh, and if you can get your Bluff skill high enough you can use it for Suggestion without using up spells or bardic music: https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#bluff

[Mordante]

Another thought occurred to me: get them to have a look at Enchanter and Beguiler handbooks for feats and items to help with using magic to influence others.

Oh, and if you can get your Bluff skill high enough you can use it for Suggestion without using up spells or bardic music: https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#bluff

Not sure if we will reach that kind of Bluff level any time soon. I think it's a bot a-typical but it took us a very long time to reach level 12.

The beguiler and Enchanter sound good as well.

For my own character I was looking at the intimidate skill. But that skill is less useful then I hoped for. My character has a decent Cha (14) and a +11 to intimidate (5 ranks Bluff, Beguiling Influence and Willing Deformity)

[A.A.King]

The bard already gets "Suggestion" as a class feature at level 6 and there are a few ways to increase the DC. If he wants to be a Pied Piper sticking wthen either sticking with bard or going into Virtuoso are I think his best bets for a musical manipulator.

If he wants to be a more generic influencer then there are ways, even early on, to have seriously high bluff/diplomacy check. But then would that really be a pied piper?

[Telonius]

Some magic items could help you out with the effort.

From the SRD, a Harp of Charming (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#harpofCharming) is what you're looking for, if you're doing this out-of-combat. 10 minutes of performance, and the whole audience is vulnerable to the effect.

(For the classic Pied Piper routine, Pipes of the Sewers (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#pipesoftheSewers) let you rid Hamlin of rats).

Mesmerist's Gloves (from Magic Item Compendium) are relatively cheap, and allow you to affect one more target than usual with Enchantments.

Pipes of Frenzied Revelry (also Magic Item Compendium) are a Relic item that creates an effect similar to Confusion. Not exactly what you're talking about, but it could be useful, depending on what you want the listeners to do.

[Biggus]

I think it's a bot a-typical but it took us a very long time to reach level 12.

I think it took our group about a year to get level 12, playing once a week usually. Not sure if that's normal or not.


For my own character I was looking at the intimidate skill. But that skill is less useful then I hoped for. My character has a decent Cha (14) and a +11 to intimidate (5 ranks Bluff, Beguiling Influence and Willing Deformity)

Intimidate isn't very good on its own, but with a bit of effort it can be very powerful. Have a look here: http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=8759.0

Don't forget to pick up the Never Outnumbered skill trick (CSco p.87) and if Dragon Magazine content is allowed, get some Ornate armor (#358, p.42) for a cheap (400-600GP) +2 bonus.