Healer feat useful or a waste?

[MadBear]

My next character I'm looking to play is going to be a Harengon Mercy monk. I love the idea of a non-divine based healer. The healer feat seems like it's a natural fit for this type of character, but I'm a bit concerned that its a wasted feat on a class that already is MAD.

What is everyones thoughts on this? A good feat to help cement my role as a healer, or a wasted feat that will hamper an already weak class?

[ecarden]

My next character I'm looking to play is going to be a Harengon Mercy monk. I love the idea of a non-divine based healer. The healer feat seems like it's a natural fit for this type of character, but I'm a bit concerned that its a wasted feat on a class that already is MAD.

What is everyones thoughts on this? A good feat to help cement my role as a healer, or a wasted feat that will hamper an already weak class?

So, it depends on your party, but I had very good luck with the healer feat on a fighter. It's not great for in-combat healing unless someone goes down (or you're a thief and can use it with fast hands), but for keeping up momentum between short rests and keeping folks from dying it's pretty good. May want to check with your DM how they interpret the wake up condition. Is that once per short rest too?

[nickl_2000]

Depends on the party, but I adore the healer feat. There will literally never be a day/session when you don't use it.

[SharkForce]

My next character I'm looking to play is going to be a Harengon Mercy monk. I love the idea of a non-divine based healer. The healer feat seems like it's a natural fit for this type of character, but I'm a bit concerned that its a wasted feat on a class that already is MAD.

What is everyones thoughts on this? A good feat to help cement my role as a healer, or a wasted feat that will hamper an already weak class?

healer is a good feat. it provides a lot of extra health over an adventuring day for the entire party.

worth it on a class that is MAD, which already can provide a lot of short rest healing? that's not as easy to say.

in any event, I don't think it'll make your character terrible, so if you really want it I say go for it.

[Amechra]

I feel like Monks get more out of the Chef feat than the Healer feat. Sure, it gives you less healing overall, but +1 Wis, little packages of temporary HP, and extra healing during short rests is a compelling combination on a Monk, especially since it encourages your group to take short rests more often.

[Zhorn]

The metric for is any feat is useful is how often it impacts that game in your favor.
Both of its options are only an action, making the Healer feat a fast heal that's almost always available, and will save the party a ton of spell slots on healing.

[strangebloke]

Despite what people on these forums would have you believe being one behind 'pace' in your main stat isn't the worst thing, and healer is a very good feat. The only reason more characters don't take it is because its a support ability and people would prefer to optimize for DPR. It's a truly extraordinary amount of cheap/free healing, especially at low level but also later on.

At 4th level its 11.5 per short/long rest per player, which in a five person party with two short rests coms out to 122.5 healing in total over the day if you need it.

Personally I believe inspiring leader is even better but obviously it comes down to flavor. Which really that's the thing isn't it? Picking this feat won't make you feel weak (and you could argue it makes you feel stronger) and it is flavorful so why not go for it?

I had a blast with a paladin who's highest stat outside charisma was a 13.

[Sigreid]

They have it covered. Situationally useful depending on party and style of campaign.

[Kane0]

Mercy monk for combat healing, healer feat for out of combat healing. I think it will work well.

[TMac9000]

Healer shines at lower levels when the amount healed is a higher fraction of everyone’s HP. That said it’s never NOT useful. It’s a basically free heal per short rest that doesn’t compete for spell slots or other class resources.

[SharkForce]

Despite what people on these forums would have you believe being one behind 'pace' in your main stat isn't the worst thing, and healer is a very good feat. The only reason more characters don't take it is because its a support ability and people would prefer to optimize for DPR. It's a truly extraordinary amount of cheap/free healing, especially at low level but also later on.

At 4th level its 11.5 per short/long rest per player, which in a five person party with two short rests coms out to 122.5 healing in total over the day if you need it.

Personally I believe inspiring leader is even better but obviously it comes down to flavor. Which really that's the thing isn't it? Picking this feat won't make you feel weak (and you could argue it makes you feel stronger) and it is flavorful so why not go for it?

I had a blast with a paladin who's highest stat outside charisma was a 13.

eh, it's quite a bit more impactful on some classes than others. like, if your fighter isn't maxed out, that's not the worst. you have lots of chances to hit, no big deal, and your attack stat quite possibly doesn't do much else than boost your attacks.

on a monk, you're delaying your hit, damage, save DC (for stunning blow if nothing else) and armour class when you delay picking up an ASI.

now, again, if it's something that you really want, I don't think it will put you so far behind that you can't function, thanks to bounded accuracy... it would be better to be a character that you enjoy playing and fits your vision than to play a character that doesn't fit your vision but is a little bit more effective, so if a feat really fits, take it. furthermore, I do agree that healer is a good feat that is generally worth taking (at least for one person in the party) and will do a good job of helping make a character feel like a healer if that is the goal.

but I would never say that ASIs are not extremely valuable for a monk.

[Foxhound438]

I'll second that inspiring leader is generally a bit better. You get less HP off of inspiring leader, but it's proactive rather than reactive, meaning that in the event someone takes enough damage to go down normally, they're instead still up and no one had to use any action or resource in that fight to make that happen. But if you don't have the charisma to take leader, healer is a close second.

As far as how good these feats are, they tend to be enough extra health in either case to absorb or counteract about one hit from an appropriately leveled enemy. But even if it turns out to be a little less than that, you still have a chance with a few extra hit points to not go down from a hit that would otherwise deal a few minus 1 damage more than you would have.

[strangebloke]

eh, it's quite a bit more impactful on some classes than others. like, if your fighter isn't maxed out, that's not the worst. you have lots of chances to hit, no big deal, and your attack stat quite possibly doesn't do much else than boost your attacks.

on a monk, you're delaying your hit, damage, save DC (for stunning blow if nothing else) and armour class when you delay picking up an ASI.

now, again, if it's something that you really want, I don't think it will put you so far behind that you can't function, thanks to bounded accuracy... it would be better to be a character that you enjoy playing and fits your vision than to play a character that doesn't fit your vision but is a little bit more effective, so if a feat really fits, take it. furthermore, I do agree that healer is a good feat that is generally worth taking (at least for one person in the party) and will do a good job of helping make a character feel like a healer if that is the goal.

but I would never say that ASIs are not extremely valuable for a monk.

ASIs are more important for a monk, but at the end of the day, the analysis for a monk is not that different from the analysis for a rogue or any dexterity-based character. +1 AC, +1 DMG, +1 ATK. It's a little more important for the monk because they can get that +1 damage multiple times, but under normal conditions its not that huge of a difference. Say a 70% chance to hit before +1 attack.

w/o +1 : [(1d8+3)*2 + (1d6+3)*1]*0.70 = 15.75
w/ +1 : [(1d8+4)*2 + (1d6+4)*1]*0.75 = 19.125

It's 21% more damage. Which is a big deal! But ultimately there are lots of people who can deal damage in the party and you're not really ever going to be the best of them. It's a reasonable direction to go and you won't really miss it in the long run.

[KorvinStarmast]

Our Tier 3 party was still happy that our Tempest Cleric took the Healer feat. We were still using it at levels 14-15.

Healer Feat: Useful. That's my experience.

[stoutstien]

I've never seen anyone take the healer feat and regret it.

[Chronos]

Keep in mind that it's not actually free healing. It's very cheap healing, but it still requires using up a healer's kit. Depending on how you're tracking expendable resources, that could matter (for instance, if you spend weeks at a time in the wilderness, without any opportunity to go shopping.

[stoutstien]

Keep in mind that it's not actually free healing. It's very cheap healing, but it still requires using up a healer's kit. Depending on how you're tracking expendable resources, that could matter (for instance, if you spend weeks at a time in the wilderness, without any opportunity to go shopping.
Best suggestion here is to ask to make use of alchemist, herbalism, or nature skills to craft some replacements on the move.

**Really wish they would expand on the XGtE material for skills and tools. Wouldn't take much to allow them to interact in meaningful ways.**

If not that, have everyone chip in and buy one for each person and a few to spare if you are going on a longer expedition. It isn't much different than stocking up on ammunition or food/water.

[Mastikator]

I'll second that inspiring leader is generally a bit better. You get less HP off of inspiring leader, but it's proactive rather than reactive, meaning that in the event someone takes enough damage to go down normally, they're instead still up and no one had to use any action or resource in that fight to make that happen. But if you don't have the charisma to take leader, healer is a close second.

As far as how good these feats are, they tend to be enough extra health in either case to absorb or counteract about one hit from an appropriately leveled enemy. But even if it turns out to be a little less than that, you still have a chance with a few extra hit points to not go down from a hit that would otherwise deal a few minus 1 damage more than you would have.

I agree that Inspiring Leader is generally amazing. Healer is very good. BUT an important caveat to IL is that if you have access to party wide temp HP/ short rest (like twillight cleric) then IL is suddenly kinda lackluster.

[Segev]

Healer is a great feat if you want to be able to, well, heal people. It does the job very well, and I think you won't regret taking it. The wizard in my ToA game had it as an herbalist-by-trade, and it was very useful.

I will second somebody else's suggestion that you examine the Chef feat, though, as it might do what you want even better. You can refluff it instead of being "tasty treats" to being "medical tinctures," if you want. Or you could make it both: you invented gummi vitamins!

Plus, Chef has more role-playing opportunities. Healer is good for getting downed people back on their feet mid-combat, but I think the RP abilities and the short rest healing will be better with Chef.

[Lokishade]

From my experience, the Healer feat is fantastic during tier 1. It loses some steam later at tier 2 (emphasis on some), downgrading to solid.

I don't know for tier 3 onward, but by that point you'll tally up the mileage you've made with this feat and feel smart for taking it.

[MrCharlie]

My next character I'm looking to play is going to be a Harengon Mercy monk. I love the idea of a non-divine based healer. The healer feat seems like it's a natural fit for this type of character, but I'm a bit concerned that its a wasted feat on a class that already is MAD.

What is everyones thoughts on this? A good feat to help cement my role as a healer, or a wasted feat that will hamper an already weak class?
Mercy monk is not weak, actually. It has high Ki cost abilities but each of them is good and has great action economy.

The main problem is that you're going to start falling behind on every metric if you take feats on a Monk, in particular AC and attack rolls. If you're starting with a 16 in both DEX and WIS it's fine, otherwise you will regret taking healer every round. If you have a 16 DEX period then it's probably fine as well. The one thing going for you is you have a great disengage bonus action from your race and a bonus to initiative, so you mitigate the impact of lower DEX and lower AC.

To the person saying they had a blast with a Paladin with a 13 as their highest stat-yes, but that's a paladin. You get damage from spell slots, hit points from the class, and AC from armor, plus you can buff with spell slots with no casting stat interaction. Monk has none of that. Some classes are much, much more friendly to having a low stat because they can adapt their playstyle, some break horribly. Monk breaks.

In terms of if healer itself is good-it's outclassed a bit now by obscenely powerful healing options with temp HP and free resistance for everyone, but it's actually kinduve synergistic with them anyway-recharging temp HP is basically a threshold before which damage does not matter, and healer lets you repair the small hits that barely push through that threshold but add up at the end of combat. It's generally not useful in combat unless you are a thief rogue.

[strangebloke]

The main problem is that you're going to start falling behind on every metric if you take feats on a Monk, in particular AC and attack rolls. If you're starting with a 16 in both DEX and WIS it's fine, otherwise you will regret taking healer every round. If you have a 16 DEX period then it's probably fine as well. The one thing going for you is you have a great disengage bonus action from your race and a bonus to initiative, so you mitigate the impact of lower DEX and lower AC.

To the person saying they had a blast with a Paladin with a 13 as their highest stat-yes, but that's a paladin. You get damage from spell slots, hit points from the class, and AC from armor, plus you can buff with spell slots with no casting stat interaction. Monk has none of that. Some classes are much, much more friendly to having a low stat because they can adapt their playstyle, some break horribly. Monk breaks. .
You're way overstating things dude. I already showed that it's like a 16% dpr loss. Which yes I know lost DPR the horror.

Mercy monks actually do have good DPR and are less impacted by a lost +1 because they tend to rely more on hands of harm for dpr which doesn't scale off dexterity.

Being 1 AC "off pace" simply isn't that big of a deal. 16 to 17 isn't an important breakpoint.


In terms of if healer itself is good-it's outclassed a bit now by obscenely powerful healing options with temp HP and free resistance for everyone, but it's actually kinduve synergistic with them anyway-recharging temp HP is basically a threshold before which damage does not matter, and healer lets you repair the small hits that barely push through that threshold but add up at the end of combat. It's generally not useful in combat unless you are a thief rogue.
It is useful in combat. Yes you'd rather spend a bonus action bringing someone up but spending a full action is fine as well, particularly for a monk who can bonus action dodge or dash on top of their action.

With that said, hands of healing is better for combat healing.

Healer isn't outclassed unless there are multiple dedicated support/healer characters.

[Chronos]

Quoth Mastikator:

BUT an important caveat to IL is that if you have access to party wide temp HP/ short rest (like twillight cleric) then IL is suddenly kinda lackluster.
One thing to keep in mind about Inspiring Leader is that a character can only benefit from it once per rest, but it does not need to be done immediately after the rest. Under normal circumstances, you usually would, but if you've got a twilight cleric in the party, then you can start by getting temp HP from them, and then after those are used up, apply the Inspiring Leader temp HP.

[Pex]

Absolutely useful. It heals more than Cure Wounds at first level and compares at 2nd level. It heals more than a regular healing potion. It is significant. Healing kits are cheap. Healer feat saves a HD or two of healing, and helps conserve potions and spell slots. Since it is only action to do it could technically be used during combat, though my preference is to do it after with or without a short rest.

To be cynical about things, you can never have too many healing resources. Any healing that does not need spell slots is valuable not just for the healing but also the potential of what else that spell slot use could do.

[loki_ragnarock]

It sure came in handy in Barovia.

[MrCharlie]

You're way overstating things dude. I already showed that it's like a 16% dpr loss. Which yes I know lost DPR the horror.

Mercy monks actually do have good DPR and are less impacted by a lost +1 because they tend to rely more on hands of harm for dpr which doesn't scale off dexterity.

Being 1 AC "off pace" simply isn't that big of a deal. 16 to 17 isn't an important breakpoint.

DPR isn't the concern. It's skills, initiative, AC, saving throws...

The 1 AC isn't what I was talking about. That's fine, which is why as long as your DEX is 16 it's fine. 18 versus 16 isn't a problem. 5% hurts but isn't that bad, even on AC.

However, if you tried to play a monk with a 13 DEX and WIS, you'd find that the class does not function anymore. At that point a class like Paladin is at least functional, while the monk blows over in a stiff breeze and hits like a butterfly.



It is useful in combat. Yes you'd rather spend a bonus action bringing someone up but spending a full action is fine as well, particularly for a monk who can bonus action dodge or dash on top of their action.

With that said, hands of healing is better for combat healing.

Healer isn't outclassed unless there are multiple dedicated support/healer characters.
The main problem with healer is that the ability to bring people up as an action is supplanted by the ability to bring them up as a bonus action, or even faster. Given how many characters can do one or the other, including the baseline of mercy monk as you mentioned, it's not that great in combat. Most of the time it's better to hit people with your action than bring them up if it comes to that, unless you can keep them from actually dying.

It's not useless though, just not typically used in combat.

[Zhorn]

The main problem with healer is that the ability to bring people up as an action is supplanted by the ability to bring them up as a bonus action, or even faster. Given how many characters can do one or the other, including the baseline of mercy monk as you mentioned, it's not that great in combat. Most of the time it's better to hit people with your action than bring them up if it comes to that, unless you can keep them from actually dying.

It's not useless though, just not typically used in combat.
I think you're treating this as comparing their usefulness in a singular encounter or snapshot in time without the stress of resources.
"Thing <X> isn't valuable because <Y> spell"
But a big benefit such reasoning ignores is any spell slot saved by using a different resource instead is a spell slot available for use later.
(I know the thread is about monk healing, but this is pretty much the same point, and generally applicable to any healer/caster)

"Why use the Healer feat when you can just cast Healing Word?"
"Why use a potion when you can just cast Healing Word?"
"Why use a Scroll of Cure Wounds when you can just cast Healing Word?"
"Why use the Staff of Healing when you can just cast Healing Word?"

All of them have the same answer: because it frees up your resources to last longer and be used on more versatile things, be it healing or something else.
Now sure Mercy Monks recharge ki faster than casters get back spell slots, but ki starvation is still a thing they have to deal with and resting between every encounter is not always a given, and so the Healer feat is a good way to ease some of that pressure.

[strangebloke]

DPR isn't the concern. It's skills, initiative, AC, saving throws...

The 1 AC isn't what I was talking about. That's fine, which is why as long as your DEX is 16 it's fine. 18 versus 16 isn't a problem. 5% hurts but isn't that bad, even on AC.

However, if you tried to play a monk with a 13 DEX and WIS, you'd find that the class does not function anymore. At that point a class like Paladin is at least functional, while the monk blows over in a stiff breeze and hits like a butterfly.
I was using the 13 STR paladin as an example of how you can be 'fine' while playing under suboptimal conditions, I wasn't recommending playing with a 13 DEX/13 WIS monk (though you could pull it off.) My pally didn't have 13 CHA either, he had 17.

Bumping Dex is probably optimal but healer is the sort of feat that you won't regret, and mercy monks are such that a +1 helps them a little less than it would help say a kensei.


The main problem with healer is that the ability to bring people up as an action is supplanted by the ability to bring them up as a bonus action, or even faster. Given how many characters can do one or the other, including the baseline of mercy monk as you mentioned, it's not that great in combat. Most of the time it's better to hit people with your action than bring them up if it comes to that, unless you can keep them from actually dying.

It's not useless though, just not typically used in combat.

BA healing is overrated. Most of the classes that can do it, do it with healing word. Healing word brings someone up to between 4-7 hp at the cost of a first level spell slot and the ability to do anything impactful with the rest of your turn. It also bears the opportunity cost of a spell known/prepared. Most other BA heals are subclass features which are relatively rare. The odds of having a celestial warlock in the party are low.

Healer has a cost of 1 gp and heals for 6 to 11 (and you don't do much with the rest of your turn) It's not a bad tradeoff, particularly when you're a character who wants to be in melee. Healing hands will generally be better if you can spare the ki, but you won't always be able to.


I think you're treating this as comparing their usefulness in a singular encounter or snapshot in time without the stress of resources.
"Thing <X> isn't valuable because <Y> spell"
But a big benefit such reasoning ignores is any spell slot saved by using a different resource instead is a spell slot available for use later.
(I know the thread is about monk healing, but this is pretty much the same point, and generally applicable to any healer/caster)

"Why use the Healer feat when you can just cast Healing Word?"
"Why use a potion when you can just cast Healing Word?"
"Why use a Scroll of Cure Wounds when you can just cast Healing Word?"
"Why use the Staff of Healing when you can just cast Healing Word?"

All of them have the same answer: because it frees up your resources to last longer and be used on more versatile things, be it healing or something else.
Now sure Mercy Monks recharge ki faster than casters get back spell slots, but ki starvation is still a thing they have to deal with and resting between every encounter is not always a given, and so the Healer feat is a good way to ease some of that pressure.

Pretty much. Healing spells are worth using but they pale in comparison to non-spell options, which always require some build investment but free up a lot of resources elsewhere.

[Merudo]

My next character I'm looking to play is going to be a Harengon Mercy monk. I love the idea of a non-divine based healer. The healer feat seems like it's a natural fit for this type of character, but I'm a bit concerned that its a wasted feat on a class that already is MAD.

What is everyones thoughts on this? A good feat to help cement my role as a healer, or a wasted feat that will hamper an already weak class?

Healer is absolutely great at low levels and with a large party, especially your DM makes rests hard to get.

It is true that Inspiring Leader can be even better, but only if (1) your character already wants high charisma (yours doesn't) and (2) there are no other sources of THP.

[Thunderous Mojo]

However, if you tried to play a monk with a 13 DEX and WIS, you'd find that the class does not function anymore. At that point a class like Paladin is at least functional, while the monk blows over in a stiff breeze and hits like a butterfly.


What this demonstrates is Unarmored Defense should add a bonus to AC equal to one's Proficiency Bonus and not their Wisdom Modifier. I suspect the 50th Anniversary edition that is looming on the horizon will make this change.

A Lizardperson monk using the Standard Array could look like this:
STR: 15 INT: 8 WIS: 13 DEX: 13 CON: 16 CHA: 10
AC: 14

If this monk elected to select the Healer Feat at 4th level, they could still use the Feat in combat as an Action, and use Patient Defense as a Bonus Action. This monks Con score, helps it suck up damage while healing others.

Let's also bring up that to wind up with this character, one either intentionally made it under Point Buy and Standard Array creation methods, or rolled stats without the option to arrange what you rolled.

[dafrca]

Great thread question and wonderful answers. Glad I read through it. :smallsmile:

[MadBear]

Thank you so much everyone. It seems like the overwhelming consensus is that it is a helpful feat that while slightly delaying my DPR, will help the party in other ways.

[Ganryu]

Personally, I love it with rogues, specifically thieves. Very good with Fast Hands :D had an evil character who faked being a cleric. Took the party a while to realize they couldn't actually cast spells, because, while not a ton of healing, I could keep them up at the very least!

They were getting a bit concerned with how much inflict wounds I was getting until they realized it was just sneak attack.

I'm not completely sure of way of mercy monk, though I don't think it's against you at all, you get healing with your ki points at a fairly regular interval, and get all ki points back on a short rest. You can probably outdo healer feat all on your own if you can convince everyone to take a double short rest, but it's by no means a waste, and adds onto your capabilities, not takes away. Makes you a VERY strong healer. Try asking your GM is you can use flurry of blows after your med kit. It's not RAW, but don't think most GM's would have a problem with it, then you get to go on double healing duty at once.

As a GM, I love healers. They make me feel less guilty about what else I'm doing.

[Joe the Rat]

I played an Open Hand Monk w/ Healer in AL for a while. It helped keep the clerics and druids rich on spell slots, and extended hit dice.
As an added note, grab a spear instead of a quarterstaff. Same features, except you can also throw it in a pinch.

5 silver to heal 1d6 + HD hp, and or stabilize/awaken dropped PCs if you've already bandaged them since your last rest. And you can make healing kits with herbalism kits, so the wilderness is not necessarily a limiter.

(That said, if you go this route, you'll probably want two or three heal kits, depending on how often you can restock).

[Lorka]

We find the Medicine skill to be so badly designed that we have made it so that with proficiency in Medicine you basically have the Healer feat.

As a DM this is great, since it make one or two have the Medicine skill, so I can use that for giving out more clues, when they ask how or when something died.

[dafrca]

We find the Medicine skill to be so badly designed that we have made it so that with proficiency in Medicine you basically have the Healer feat.

As a DM this is great, since it make one or two have the Medicine skill, so I can use that for giving out more clues, when they ask how or when something died.

Interesting, nice house rule. :smallsmile: