Need help understanding 5e power balance

[mehs]

So I am new to 5e, haven't played before other than two one shots.
One session in to what is planned on being a full campaign and dm is talking about nerfing my character.

For reference, we are level 4 and did 4d6d1 for stats.
I got a 18, 15, 14, 6, 12, 12 for stats (base) and went noble background protector aasimar paladin, oath of redemption with diplomat feat. NG/CG
18 str
12 Dex
14 con
6 int
13=12+1 wis
18=15+2+1 cha.
With proficiencies in history, medicine, insight, and expertise in persuasion.

The sticking point seems to be the diplomat feat.
Diplomat effect is +1 cha, proficiency in persuasion or expertise of you already have it, and can make a persuasion vs insight check on people, on a fail they are charmed for however long they stay within 60ft of you +1 minute.

Dm also mentioned something about them becoming hostile after they stop being chased, which I don't understand how would work in this context.

I am taking the 6 int into account, rp'ing it to the extent I got the first inspiration of the game. (2 total have been handed out).

Character is essentially a himbo who is good at talking.


So my main question, is my character op, how would I change it, and what is the reputation of the various books. Dm immediately starting shunning diplomat when he heard it was from UA. But again, I'm new, I found it by googling "persuasion feats" and don't know much.

[Mastikator]

The DM should have just banned UA from the start. UA is basically beta testing material and is often unbalanced or bad. You don't need a feat to be good at talking.
If I were you I'd ask to have your UA feat replaced with Skill Expert. (take +1 charisma, expertise in persuasion and a skill in whatever) you're basically replacing your charm effect with a skill proficiency.

What you also can do is take the Blessed Warrior fighting style which gives you 2 cleric cantrips, one of the cantrips you should then take is guidance. You'd have to replace it with whatever you currently have.

[ad_hoc]

If you both roll for stats and use feats you're going to end up with characters which are far above the baseline encounter guidelines assume. So that's one thing.

The diplomat feat is a bit much. You already have expertise in persuasion, you don't also need adv. to checks.

The Charmed condition probably does less than the DM thinks it does. One thing I would definitely change about that feat if I were to allow it is to have the charmed effect end if you or your allies attack them.

[Chaos Jackal]

UA is test content, and not all of it ends up in releases. The skill feats never made it into a book, for example. It's not uncommon for people to mistrust UA; being playtest material, it has a reputation of being imbalanced (on either direction) or unfinished.

That being said, the Diplomat feat isn't overpowered or anything. Point out that you need to spend a minute talking to even attempt to use the effect, and that the charmed condition doesn't actually do much (in a non-combat situation, which is where Diplomat can be used, all it does is give you advantage on Charisma checks). This isn't 3.5; diplomancy doesn't exist in 5e. It will make you really good at persuading people to do stuff, but you're not actually mind controlling them or anything. If he's still not fond of the thing, propose that the duration is cut down from indefinite to one minute or a few rounds or something, and that it ends instantly with combat; it will still give you plenty of time to do your persuading and it doesn't appear like you make the other obsessed with you, neither will it look as if you're abusing the feat to preemptively remove enemies from a fight.

Seriously though, it's not that crazy of a feat. Maybe just the fact that it's UA causes an overreaction. Perhaps the DM overestimates the charmed condition (see above; many do). Or maybe it's gonna be too good in the campaign. Are you going heavy on intrigue or something that might make the DM worry you'll get everyone by your side?

If your DM is still sour about the feat and wants to add the hostility clause (which basically beats the entire purpose of being a diplomat), just take Skill Expert instead.

[mehs]

The diplomat feat is a bit much. You already have expertise in persuasion, you don't also need adv. to checks.



The diplomat feat gives me expertise, not advantage. It is the thing giving me expertise.

[MoiMagnus]

Dm also mentioned something about them becoming hostile after they stop being chased, which I don't understand how would work in this context.

I'm pretty sure your GM is trying to apply the rule of the "Friend" spell. The friend spell does make the target hostile after one minute, as they realise you essentially drugged them with magic so that they would be nice to you (and peoples don't appreciate being drugged against their will).

I'm pretty sure that the diplomat feat was not supposed to have this "hostility effect", but that's an UA so I'd totally understand if the GM wants to nerf it before accepting this feat in the game.

[solidork]

A good compromise would be to swap the Diplomat feat for Skill Expert - that will still give you the +1 to an ability, expertise in Persuasion and give you proficiency in another skill instead of the charm effect.

I'd probably take prof in Athletics.

[Kane0]

A good compromise would be to swap the Diplomat feat for Skill Expert - that will still give you the +1 to an ability, expertise in Persuasion and give you proficiency in another skill instead of the charm effect.

I'd probably take prof in Athletics.

Or skilled or inspiring leader or magic initiate

[quindraco]

So I am new to 5e, haven't played before other than two one shots.
One session in to what is planned on being a full campaign and dm is talking about nerfing my character.

For reference, we are level 4 and did 4d6d1 for stats.
I got a 18, 15, 14, 6, 12, 12 for stats (base) and went noble background protector aasimar paladin, oath of redemption with diplomat feat. NG/CG
18 str
12 Dex
14 con
6 int
13=12+1 wis
18=15+2+1 cha.
With proficiencies in history, medicine, insight, and expertise in persuasion.

The sticking point seems to be the diplomat feat.
Diplomat effect is +1 cha, proficiency in persuasion or expertise of you already have it, and can make a persuasion vs insight check on people, on a fail they are charmed for however long they stay within 60ft of you +1 minute.

Dm also mentioned something about them becoming hostile after they stop being chased, which I don't understand how would work in this context.

I am taking the 6 int into account, rp'ing it to the extent I got the first inspiration of the game. (2 total have been handed out).

Character is essentially a himbo who is good at talking.


So my main question, is my character op, how would I change it, and what is the reputation of the various books. Dm immediately starting shunning diplomat when he heard it was from UA. But again, I'm new, I found it by googling "persuasion feats" and don't know much.

Essentially, neither rolling for stats nor UA content are compatible with what passes for balance in 5E. Always use point buy and never use UA if you want to adhere as closely as possible to WOTC's intended balance point.

[Pex]

Essentially, neither rolling for stats nor UA content are compatible with what passes for balance in 5E. Always use point buy and never use UA if you want to adhere as closely as possible to WOTC's intended balance point.

No.

Rolling for stats is the official way. Point Buy is the variant. The game does not fall apart into an unplayable mess for using rolling. The problem is the feat, a UA feat that's being tested and not something official that has been vetted by testing. The DM doesn't like being able to Charm people at will by a feat. The easy solution is get rid of that feat and choose something else, a published feat or +2 CH or +1 CH and +1 something else. Also tell WOTC the feat is bad for reasons. Proficiency in Persuasion is enough to be good with talking to people. A feat exists to give you expertise in it. That's more than enough. You don't need Charm.

[ad_hoc]

The diplomat feat gives me expertise, not advantage. It is the thing giving me expertise.

Charm gives you advantage which Diplomat also gives you.


No.

Rolling for stats is the official way. Point Buy is the variant. The game does not fall apart into an unplayable mess for using rolling. The problem is the feat, a UA feat that's being tested and not something official that has been vetted by testing. The DM doesn't like being able to Charm people at will by a feat. The easy solution is get rid of that feat and choose something else, a published feat or +2 CH or +1 CH and +1 something else. Also tell WOTC the feat is bad for reasons. Proficiency in Persuasion is enough to be good with talking to people. A feat exists to give you expertise in it. That's more than enough. You don't need Charm.

You're right but to be more clear rolling and standard array are the default, point buy is the variant.

IMO rolling without feats is fine. With feats it becomes a problem because it often causes an early stat cap and now you're deciding whether to raise a secondary stat or take a feat which unbalances the feats.

[Tanarii]

Other than not using UA material without DM buyin (which they sound very iffy on giving), I'd say switch Int and Dex and you're good to go. Paladins use heavy armor so they dont need Dex, and you're planning to have a focus in history.

Unless you really want the character to be bad at deductive thinking and lore except history. In which case just ditch the UA feat.

You'll punch above your weight class at low levels because Paladins already do, and you've got great stats. But if you look for fun but usually underrated feats instead of optimal ASI/feats at levels 4 and 8, IMO you'll rapidly come close to the baseline by high Tier 2.

[Khrysaes]

If you are up to it and your DM is allowing multiclassing, I believe that the Diplomat feat made it into the game as a bard subclass feature.

It did get nerfed a bit, but this is the closest I think to the feat that I think made it into the game.

Enthralling Performance

Starting at 3rd level, you can charge your performance with seductive, fey magic.

If you perform for at least 1 minute, you can attempt to inspire wonder in your audience by singing, reciting a poem, or dancing. At the end of the performance, choose a number of humanoids within 60 feet of you who watched and listened to all of it, up to a number equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum of one). Each target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw against your spell save DC or be charmed by you. While charmed in this way, the target idolizes you, it speaks glowingly of you to anyone who talks to it, and it hinders anyone who opposes you, although it avoids violence unless it was already inclined to fight on your behalf. This effect ends on a target after 1 hour, if it takes any damage, if you attack it, or if it witnesses you attacking or damaging any of its allies.

If a target succeeds on its saving throw, the target has no hint that you tried to charm it.

Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a short or long rest.

You can either lose the feat and work towards the multiclass, or work with the DM and modify the feat based off the class feature.

To note, bards get expertise through the class, not the feature

That said I am pretty sure at least some other feats made it into the game in this way.

I think the Empath feat is in the Rogue's Inquisitive subclass.