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shadow_archmagi
2007-11-18, 10:53 AM
A lot of the better spells seem to require XP from me. I don't really like the idea of being weaker than everyone else... is it worth it? Is there something I can do to atone for this loss? I understand that some limits have to be posed on wizards to prevent them from becoming Batman (which happens a lot anyway, but without XP costs they would probably become a freakish batman-green lantern-flash-dalek hybrid).

Spiryt
2007-11-18, 11:00 AM
You know, this XP cost are really abysmall... And as you said wizard is anyway too powerful. So IMO this XP cost really should stay.

And atoning this? Gain more XP. Kill something/make abything you will get XP from your DM. With this spells implicitly.

Jack_Simth
2007-11-18, 11:02 AM
You generally make it up by being one level below the rest of the party.

Seriously - The Wiz-13 who uses Limited Wish three times in a party of 4 over the 14 CR 13 encounters to level gains 13,650 xp (and loses 900). At that point, he's a Wiz-13 in a party of 14th level characters - until he hits level 14 as well, each CR 14 encounter nets the Wizard 1463 xp, and the rest of the party 1050 xp each.

Same goes for crafting XP, which is slightly more often cited.

Time it right with just one small casting, and you can actually end up ahead of the party in XP overall, although behind for a single session.

Sstoopidtallkid
2007-11-18, 11:05 AM
Yes, I realize they had to deal with balance issues, but it seems odd. If I go and beat something to death with my stick, I grow more skilled with magic. If I DO SOMETHING MAGICAL, like, say, cast a spell, or make a magic item, I get worse at magic. It seems odd. Once you hit a certain age, you would have to stop practicing magic, because every time you cast a spell, you would know you were too weak to replenish it by killing a hobgoblin. It seems like they could have nerfed casters and eliminated the whole xp cost issue.

Jack_Simth
2007-11-18, 11:09 AM
Yes, I realize they had to deal with balance issues, but it seems odd. If I go and beat something to death with my stick, I grow more skilled with magic. If I DO SOMETHING MAGICAL, like, say, cast a spell, or make a magic item, I get worse at magic. It seems odd. Once you hit a certain age, you would have to stop practicing magic, because every time you cast a spell, you would know you were too weak to replenish it by killing a hobgoblin. It seems like they could have nerfed casters and eliminated the whole xp cost issue.

1) only items and certain types of spells. Most spells cost you no xp.
2) You cannot lose a level due to voluntary crafting / xp draining spells. It's actually in the book. You just get to the point where you can't craft / cast those spells anymore.

Crow
2007-11-18, 11:14 AM
Unless you are casting Wish or Limited Wish all the time, XP costs will not hurt you. XP put forth for crafting is an investment, and a very small one at that. Generally, the items you craft will contribute more to your character's survival than the paltry XP you put forth to craft it.

Also, if you do end up a level behind your teammates, the disparity is not really all that signifigant, and you will earn more XP until you catch up, due to being one level behind.

shadow_archmagi
2007-11-18, 11:27 AM
Where can I find an accurate XP chart, anyway? Right now my only resource is the http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm website. It utterly fails at listing XP gain for killing things.

Also, are there noncombat methods of gaining XP? It seems to me if a fighter spent some time blacksmithing, he could learn about the way weapons are forged, weak points, strong points, etc, which would help him in combat. Possibly. The connection is even more obvious for mages.. practicing with Burning hands, recording the effects, and perfecting it, could easily lead to Scorching Ray.

kamikasei
2007-11-18, 11:31 AM
Where can I find an accurate XP chart, anyway? Right now my only resource is the http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm website. It utterly fails at listing XP gain for killing things.

Use the encounter calculator (http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20encountercalculator.htm). Or the DMG...


Also, are there noncombat methods of gaining XP? It seems to me if a fighter spent some time blacksmithing, he could learn about the way weapons are forged, weak points, strong points, etc, which would help him in combat. Possibly. The connection is even more obvious for mages.. practicing with Burning hands, recording the effects, and perfecting it, could easily lead to Scorching Ray.

I think this sort of thing is supposed to be the in-game explanation for how your extra XP gives you extra abilities, not a source of XP itself.

shadow_archmagi
2007-11-18, 11:35 AM
Thank you so much for the pretty XP calculator! I don't have the DMG though.

Also, now that you've given me this wonderful XP calculator.. it seems a shame to not know how MUCH xp I'd need to level up.

kjones
2007-11-18, 11:46 AM
Thank you so much for the pretty XP calculator! I don't have the DMG though.

Also, now that you've given me this wonderful XP calculator.. it seems a shame to not know how MUCH xp I'd need to level up.

Unfortunately, that information (along with character creation and WBL guidelines, and a couple other things) is not Open Gaming Content and so is not in the SRD.

Theodoxus
2007-11-18, 11:59 AM
Unfortunately, that information (along with character creation and WBL guidelines, and a couple other things) is not Open Gaming Content and so is not in the SRD.

So... you can't say XP required to level is equal to your current level x 1000?

shadow_archmagi
2007-11-18, 12:03 PM
Wait.. is that actually what it is?

Rad
2007-11-18, 12:06 PM
So... you can't say XP required to level is equal to CENSORED BY WOTC SPOOOOOKY MYSTICAL KNIGHTS
According to forum rules no, you can't.

Many people think that XP should not be used as a resource but as things are they are a pretty unique way to restrict the power of those spells and the only way to keep them a rare occurrence. Wait for 4e.

Crow
2007-11-18, 12:06 PM
Wait.. is that actually what it is?

Maybe =)

If you spend time developing your character and roleplaying his downtime (not just saying "I spend the next two days learning to work the forge"), you should get XP for roleplaying.

Also, you can be rewarded XP for meaningful NPC interaction, and also for completing a quest or adventure, regardless of how you completed it (you could do so without ever drawing your weapon in some cases).

shadow_archmagi
2007-11-18, 02:20 PM
Ah. Okay then. Thank you all for your advice and help.