Wild Shaped as Nilshai

[Windaar]

"A nilshai casts spells as an 8th-level sorcerer. The save DC for its spells is 13 + spell level. A typical nilshai spell list follows (spells per day 6/7/7/6/3): 0 - daze, detect magic, disrupt undead, light, mage hand, ray of frost, read magic, resistance; 1st - color spray, mage armor, magic missile, silent image, true strike; 2nd - mirror image, resist elements, Snilloc's snowball swarm; 3rd - dispel magic, lightning bolt; 4th - enervation."

Does this mean that, as a nilshai, we can cast sorcerer spells, since they don't have to be prepped? Or would we have to "know" them as a druid (not, obviously, possible)?

[ixrisor]

When wildshaped into a nilshai you would not normally be able to use its innate spellcasting, but assuming you could it would work exactly like the nilshai’s (same spells known, spells per day, etc) in addition to your normal druid casting (similar to if you had multiclassed into sorcerer). The exception would be that the save dc and other variables would be based on your charisma, rather than the nilshai’s. That said, you would not normally gain the spellcasting ability of a creature you wildshape into.

[Windaar]

Got it. Thank you!

[SnugUndies]

Now, having said that... there is a way to gain a little spellcasting via wild shape!

If you prestige as a Master of Many Forms, at level 7 you gain the ability to use the (Ex) abilities of anything you wild shape into. Monster Manual V includes a few monsters featuring something I think no other book does: spellcasting as an explicitly (Ex) ability! The Hobgoblin Warsoul has an Extraordinary ability called "Arcane Talent," which lets them cast spells as a 9th-level wizard, with a sample list of spells prepared included. So if you have seven levels of MoMF, you can turn into a Hobgoblin Warsoul to pick up a bit of arcane firepower on demand.

In the same book, the Kuo-Toa Exalted Whip has the Extraordinary ability "Divine Talent," which means - you guessed it - Cleric casting at 8th level, as well as domain granted powers and even rebuking. Why the spellcasting is explicitly listed as (Ex) in this book only I couldn't tell you, but bully for the dedicated wild shaper.

[Paragon]

A simple casting of Enhanced Wildshape would suffice, much less annoying than 7 levels in a PrC and opens up insane possibilities.

[eggynack]

A simple casting of Enhanced Wildshape would suffice, much less annoying than 7 levels in a PrC and opens up insane possibilities.
That works fine for getting the abilities but not for the forms. Monsters with explicitly Ex spellcasting are very rare, and outside the druid's typical wheelhouse.

[Windaar]

Yeah, so now I'm confused. How does that differ from Enhance Wild Shape?

"Gain the extraordinary abilities of the new form."

[eggynack]

Yeah, so now I'm confused. How does that differ from Enhance Wild Shape?

"Gain the extraordinary abilities of the new form."
They're the same in this regard. What MoMF actually offers is monstrous humanoid forms, a thing I don't think it's possible to get otherwise through wild shape.

[Windaar]

They're the same in this regard. What MoMF actually offers is monstrous humanoid forms, a thing I don't think it's possible to get otherwise through wild shape.

Ah, ok.

But then does that mean EWS *does* grant spell casting?

[eggynack]

Ah, ok.

But then does that mean EWS *does* grant spell casting?
It explicitly does for those two monsters. I'm kinda skeptical of the idea that casting is an Ex ability in the vast majority of cases where it does not say that though. Ex is definitely a theory for the kind of ability casting is, but I dunno that it's the best theory.