Encounter with six vampires

[Elves]

https://www.halloween-mask.com/assets/images/tots/14/death_studios_vampire_demon_jeff_death.jpg

I need to cook up 6 vampire bad guys whose builds synergize with both the vampire template and the other members of the coven. Any ideas?

These aren't vanilla Draculas in black capes: they're cultists who live in a demonic palace in the Abyss, feeding on the ichor of angels and demons and presiding over mass blood sacrifices. So I'd like them to stand out as depraved and freakish as possible in their appearance and powers, and to include at least a couple members who go beyond the typical humanoid races.

Vampires can be humanoids or monstrous humanoids, so some ideas that spring to mind are hag, troll, gargoyle, anthropomorphic bat, and tauric creature (x/dire bat?).

The most obvious starting place is "evil adventuring party"...lifedrinker spellcaster, big bruiser type, etc.

- Lifedrinker is an obvious starting point. I'd like something with some kind of unique (non-SLA) special attack that works with lifedrinker's empower/maximize special attack -- preferably Ex since there are no feats for that.
- Vampire blood drain is grapple-based, so at least one grapple build.
- Savage and master vampire templates can give wild shape into animal only, which might be fodder for another one.

(CR range for each of the 6 is in the mid teens to mid twenties.)

Any inspiration for cool occult vampires? Vampires lured into a cult of carnality...who stand out as freakishly different from the gothic archetype.

[Maat Mons]

Are there trolls that don't have the giant type?

Some other possible race: desmodu, doppleganger, harpy, loxo, maruspawn, minotaur, nezumi, shinoman naga, unbodied, werewolf, yak folk, and yuan-ti.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

The [Vile] feats are always a good place to start. Vampires that have warped their own bodies and minds to be freakishly tall, obese, mad enough to shrug off (and reflect) mind-affecting abilities...

Maybe pull one of my favorite tricks, and use the Symbiotic Creature template to have a vampire that's infested with a swarm of some sort, writhing through its body and warping its mind. The vampire has to have Human Heritage as its first feat to keep it a viable host, and the swarm has to be of tiny or smaller creatures... swarm of leeches, perhaps? Grants a whole lot of immunities and all the special abilities of both forms, at the cost of tanking mental stats (and eliminating the ability to grapple).

What else. For the grappler, maybe a Totemist/ Necrocarnate with Undead Meldshaper? Or maybe Totemist/ Witchborn Binder (maybe with some Justiciar) to snare enemies with the chains of Hell, shutting down their magic.

Hmm, cult of carnality. Does that include drugs and stuff? A drugged out vampire (presumably having drunk the blood of mortal addicts), able to use their state of waking dreaming (mechanically the Dream Scion feat) to warp reality through the Lucid Dreaming skill.


Are there trolls that don't have the giant type?

War Trolls are Monstrous Humanoids, and have a Daze rider effect on their attacks. Lots of HD, though; doesn't leave room for much else in the build.

[Elves]

Cool ideas. Yes, definitely drugs. Cult is Graz'zt's.


Maybe pull one of my favorite tricks, and use the Symbiotic Creature template to have a vampire that's infested with a swarm of some sort, writhing through its body and warping its mind. The vampire has to have Human Heritage as its first feat to keep it a viable host, and the swarm has to be of tiny or smaller creatures... swarm of leeches, perhaps?
Bloodfiend locust swarm would be perfect for this, but don't think templates are an "effect". But there should totally be a non-vampire creature in a different room in this area who has that combo.

[Maat Mons]

I did some brainstorming for one of the sextet.

Female Shinomen Naga Constrictor
Size: Huge (natural form) or Medium (human-like form)
Type: Humanoid (Oriental Adventures) or Monstrous Humanoid (Dragon magazine update)
Hit Dice: 4d8 (become d12 when turned into a Vampire
Abilities: Str +10, Con +8 (- when turned into Vampire), Int +2, Wis +6, Cha +2
Speed: 20 feet (natural form) or 30 feet (human-like form)
Reach: 15 feet (natural form) or 5 feet (human-like form)
Other: Alternate Form (females only), Improved Grab, Constrict, +4 natural armor
CR: 3

Vampire
CR: +2

Cleric 20
Domains: Domination, Temptation

Charm Person, Command
Beckoning Call, Enthrall
Suggestion, Suggestion
Charm Monster, Dominate Person
Greater Command, Dominate Person
Geas/Quest, Mass Suggestion
Soul Link. Mass Suggestion
Sympathy, True Domination
Dominate Monster, Monstrous Thrall
CR: +18

Monk 1
CR: +1

Feats
Permanent Emanation (Antimagic Field)
Domain Spontaneity x2

Total CR: 24

I wrote that before noticing that you'd decided they worship Graz'zt. So the Domination domain doesn't match his offerings.

Actually, now that I think about it, Vampire Clerics aren't allowed to pick domains based on deity or ethos anyway. Maybe just give her the domains that make sense instead of the domains the rules offer her?

[Crake]

Vampires can be humanoids or monstrous humanoids

Ghostwalk has the monstrous vampire template, that is literally just the vampire template, but opened up to a BUNCH more types. The draconomicon also has the vampiric dragon template, again, much the same, but opens up the dragon type, in fact, here's a whole thread with a bunch of vampiric variants. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?544846-Index-of-Vampiric-Variants)

[Elves]

Thanks Maat. Antimagic grappler vampire is an interesting idea -- blood drain and lifedrinker's special attack empower/maximize are all Ex.

Problem: vampire slam energy drain (the naga's improved grab keys off slam) is su.
Fortunately, turning on permanent emanation is a free action. So it can slam energy drain, turn on AMF as free action, and proceed to grapple despite FOM.

Using permanent emanation is actually brilliant: the vampire can turn AMF off to cast a spell, then turn it right on again. They can even do this while grappling someone, since FOM doesn't automatically end a grapple, just lets target auto-win check.

Snake vamp is definitely in. But maybe instead of an OA naga it should be a lamia noble from Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, who are explicitly devoted followers of Graz'zt. The pros are their constrict isn't limited by size and deals more damage. The con is they don't have improved grab so they need to get it from somewhere.

And AMF is doubly good for vampires since it turns off death ward too. This gimmick might be worth giving to more than one of them. Maybe the snake one is a cleric or mage and there's a war troll runescarred berserker using build above.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Snake vamp is definitely in. But maybe instead of an OA naga it should be a lamia noble from Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, who are explicitly devoted followers of Graz'zt. The pros are their constrict isn't limited by size and deals more damage. The con is they don't have improved grab so they need to get it from somewhere.

Scorpion's Grasp feat isn't quite Improved Grab, but it should suffice unless you want to qualify for (Greater) Multigrab. Also, note that Improved Grab drags the enemy into your square, while regular grappling (including Scorpion's Grasp) moves you into theirs; this can get hilariously stupid with enough reach on a full attack routine.

[Elves]

Ghostwalk has the monstrous vampire template, that is literally just the vampire template, but opened up to a BUNCH more types.
That's great. It allows aberrations and the "corrupted by the Abyss" template can give any creature the aberration type.

One creepy image is a giant black-shelled vampiric chuul. They do have constrict and imp grab so that's another grappler candidate.

This also allows the symbiotic one -- the vampire with symbiotic leeches, was it? Sucking at his skin constantly. That's pretty gross, I think it fits.

This opens up almost too many options. What are the coolest vampires you can imagine? The themes are desire, temptation, debauchery, and domination...the "Coven of Six" are grotesque beings who preside over rivers' worth of blood sacrifice.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Bloodfiend locust swarm would be perfect for this, but don't think templates are an "effect". But there should totally be a non-vampire creature in a different room in this area who has that combo.


This also allows the symbiotic one -- the vampire with symbiotic leeches, was it? Sucking at his skin constantly. That's pretty gross, I think it fits.

Monstrous Vampire definitely works (and is probably a better pick because it doesn't cost a feat), but for the record Human Heritage works too, not because the template is an effect, but because the feat keeps the vampire a Humanoid (and thus a viable base for Symbiotic Creature) even after vampirification. That'll teach me to work from memory; both creatures need to be living for the Symbiotic Creature template. You have to add (Monstrous) Vampire after Symbiotic if you're using it.

[Maat Mons]

For the swarm-themed vampire, some alternatives to the Symbiotic template are the Hivenest template (Dungeonscape, p115), the Swarmform Vampire variant (Libris Mortis, p170), and the Swarm-Shifter template (Libris Mortis, p123). Though nothing quite duplicates Horde (https://wiki.savagedragon.com/profiles/characters/horde/) from the Savage Dragon comics.

[Elves]

For the swarm-themed vampire, some alternatives to the Symbiotic template are the Hivenest template (Dungeonscape, p115), the Swarmform Vampire variant (Libris Mortis, p170), and the Swarm-Shifter template (Libris Mortis, p123). Though nothing quite duplicates Horde (https://wiki.savagedragon.com/profiles/characters/horde/) from the Savage Dragon comics.

i'm imagining a deathly pale obese guy with black leeches covering his arms, feeding off the blood that he imbibes. symbiotic with leech swarm + swarm shifter template (leech). only problemo is leeches are aquatic. but there are terrestrial leech species so easy enough to houserule.

Bloodfiend locust swarm is better mechanically. maybe reskin as leeches or skeets.

[Sintanan]

Maybe borrow from the iconic forms of Dracula's shifting?

You already have the snake vampire to grapple everyone.

Instead of leeches, why not have a drider vampire and the swarm is an endless collection of spider spawn. This becomes your crowd control vampire. This covers the spider swarm Dracula does.

A vampire brute wolf beast of some kind. Take a horrid (eberron) wolf, slap anthropomorphic on it to make it a blood oozing, spine ridden, grotesquely misshapen wolf man, then slap savage vampire from libris mortis on it to turn it into the melee tanky vampire? This covers his wolf form.

Take an anthropomorphic bat and slap the star vampire template from d20 call of cthulhu? Gets you a naturally invisible giant bat man that pins you down and sucks your blood. How horrifying would that be to feel some massive, ice cold and furry thing you cannot see pin you down, then your blood seep from wounds that spontaneously appear in your neck? This gets you the bat form.

All that's left is rats and mist. For rats maybe some animal controlling fey vampire that assembles rodent constructs from bones and sinew of victims. Not sure how to do this one. Some summoner build? Or maybe run the rats as ROUSes by making them blood golems of some kind.

Mist is the interesting one. I know eberron has living spells that are oozes, and there's a vampiric ooze. Depending on how strong you want this just use different necromantic spells as the living spell base.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Mist is the interesting one. I know eberron has living spells that are oozes, and there's a vampiric ooze. Depending on how strong you want this just use different necromantic spells as the living spell base.

Maybe combine that one with the dream/drug vampire? I did something like that for a competition character (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24809459&postcount=45), combining a Wendigo and a Dream Vestige, but there's no reason you couldn't use Vampire instead of Wendigo. It would be reusing Symbiotic Creature, but different enough that it's probably fine. The main advantages are lots of extra feats and a Desecrating Aura party buff, plus some serious interplanar mobility if that's important. Whoops, the guest needs to be living, so go with the alternate below. Turns out Vampires don't have to be living, just an acceptable type.

You'd also need a new story justification for the Dream Vestige; maybe the souls of the vampire's victims remain trapped in the drugged slumber they died in, and instead of rising as Vampire Spawn, gradually accumulate around their master until they formed a full Dream Vestige.

Alternatively, you don't even really need a host other than the Dream Vestige; you could do away with Symbiotic Creature entirely and just make a Vampire Dream Vestige, since it's already a Humanoid thanks (again) to Human Heritage. Story-wise it works out about the same, only instead of coalescing around a 'parent' vampire, the slumbering souls combine to form a wholly separate entity.

[ShurikVch]

Note: Monstrous Vampire template (Ghostwalk) allows to make into Vampire "any aberration, animal, beast, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, or vermin"

Also:
Drider Vampire (City of the Spider Queen)
Mind Flayer, Vampire (Lords of Madness)
Vampiric Dragon (Draconomicon)

Demon Vampire and Ooze Vampire (https://web.archive.org/web/20161031214958/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20060407a)
Vampiric Plants (https://web.archive.org/web/20170222000624/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20070401a)

Dragon #348 has Kasian Vampire, Savage Vampire, Shadow Vampire, and Terror Vampire variants

Hullathoin (Fiend Folio) - not Vampire by itself, but creates Vampire Spawns

There are also Vampires (https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Vampire) in Diablo game, which was adapted to tabletop by Wizards of the Coast



Are there trolls that don't have the giant type?
Mur-Zhagul (Unapproachable East) is Outsider
Tree Troll (Dragon #299) is Monstrous Humanoid
Also, all Trolls in Warcraft the RPG are Monstrous Humanoids too (except Jungle Troll, which was once listed as Humanoid - but Monstrous Humanoids in another book)



Maybe pull one of my favorite tricks, and use the Symbiotic Creature template to have a vampire that's infested with a swarm of some sort, writhing through its body and warping its mind. The vampire has to have Human Heritage as its first feat to keep it a viable host
No, Human Heritage wouldn't be enough for Vampire to qualify for Symbiotic Creature template:

"Symbiotic" is an acquired template that can be added to any two living creatures of the following types: animal, humanoid, plant, or vermin.

Living: Any creature with a Constitution score is a living creature. Constructs and undead are not living creatures.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

No, Human Heritage wouldn't be enough for Vampire to qualify for Symbiotic Creature template:

Damn, I'd forgotten the living bit. Time to do some editing.

[Elves]

Key word "added to". They would become symbiotic before becoming undead. Is there a rule that you lose a template if you stop qualifying for it?

I could see a fluff/fiat ruling that a symbiote would leave if host becomes undead, but in this case the leeches can keep feeding off the blood the vamp drinks, so fluff isn't a problem.

[ShurikVch]

Key word "added to". They would become symbiotic before becoming undead. Is there a rule that you lose a template if you stop qualifying for it?

I could see a fluff/fiat ruling that a symbiote would leave if host becomes undead, but in this case the leeches can keep feeding off the blood the vamp drinks, so fluff isn't a problem.
In that case - Monstrous Vampire should work just fine (even without Human Heritage)

[Thurbane]

Make one an OA Hopping Vampire, just for lols. Maybe make it some kind of Leap Attacker.

[Elves]

Brainstorming stubs for final draft of Maat Mons' snake vampire.

Using lamia noble from Expedition to the Demonweb Pits as a base instead of shinomen naga (why? fluff: they serve Graz'zt, mechanics: their RHD keep CR low). These builds fall along two lines.

---------

First, a warlock theurge with Eldritch Claws, Beast Strike and the fierce grappler PRC.


Choke-Out (Ex): If the fierce grappler maintains a pin for full round, at the end of the round, her opponent must make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 15 + grapple damage dealt during that round by the fierce grappler). If the saving throw fails, the opponent falls unconscious for 1d3 rounds.

Eldritch claws give you a claw attack with damage equal to eldritch blast, and beast strike adds your claw damage to your grapple damage, which then adds to the DC of Choke-Out. With a 6d6 eldritch blast and the lamia's strength you're looking at a DC 50 fort to avoid falling unconscious if you stay pinned in the lamia's AMF grapple for a full round.

This is on top of the Constitution damage from its blood drain and the Wisdom damage from its constrict (although the latter is supernatural, so it won't work in the AMF).

claw attacks > improved grab > constrict (and Wis drain if no AMF) + Beast Strike damage + blood drain > choke-out.


v1: 13 RHD warlock 3/divine crusader 1/eldritch disciple 8/contemplative 1/scaled horror 1/fierce grappler 5
= CR 19, 32 HD [6d6 blast, greater invoc, 9ths, needs AMF from domain]

v2: 13 RHD warlock 3/sorc1/eldritch theurge 10/archmage 1/scaled horror 1/fierce grappler 5
= CR 20, 34 HD [6d6 blast, greater invoc, 6ths]

v3: 13 RHD warlock 3/sorc1/eldritch theurge 10/archmage 3/scaled horror 1/fierce grappler 5
CR 21, 36 HD [6d6 blast, greater invoc, 7ths -- arcane spellsurge]

---------

The other idea is a straightforward Cha-based theurge:

v1 [minimum to get Persistent Emanation]: 13 RHD sorcerer 1/divine crusader 1/mystic theurge 9
CR 16, 24 HD [5ths/9ths, needs AMF domain]

v2: 13 RHD sorcerer 1/divine crusader 1/mystic theurge 9/archmage 1/master vampire 1
CR 17, 26 HD [6ths/9ths]

v3: 13 RHD sorcerer 1/divine crusader 1/mystic theurge 9/archmage 3/master vampire 1
CR 18 28 HD [7ths/9ths — arcane spellsurge]


a variant is to add lifedrinker levels for nastier grapple drain in AMF and some free metamagic -- nice because it makes the spellcasting and Con drain parts directly synergize.

v4: 10 RHD sorcerer 1/divine crusader 1/mystic theurge 9/lifedrinker 8
CR 19, 29 HD [5ths/9ths, needs AMF domain, greater blood drain]

v5: 13 RHD sorcerer 1/divine crusader 1/mystic theurge 9/archmage 1/master vampire 1/lifedrinker 8
CR 20, 32 HD [6ths/9ths, greater blood drain]

v6: 13 RHD sorcerer 1/divine crusader 1/mystic theurge 9/archmage 3/master vampire 1/lifedrinker 8
CR 21, 34 HD [7ths/9ths, greater blood drain, arcane spellsurge]


Where I'm stuck in committing this to paper is choosing between the two tactics:
eldritch claw warlock-caster with chokeout vs dual Cha caster

Edit: To be clear, I wouldn't put this much effort in for a home game, this is for a module.

[Anthrowhale]

You need 6, right? Why not take both?

[JyP]

I need to cook up 6 vampire bad guys whose builds synergize with both the vampire template and the other members of the coven. Any ideas?

These aren't vanilla Draculas in black capes: they're cultists who live in a demonic palace in the Abyss, feeding on the ichor of angels and demons and presiding over mass blood sacrifices. So I'd like them to stand out as depraved and freakish as possible in their appearance and powers, and to include at least a couple members who go beyond the typical humanoid races.

You can take some inspiration from latest Magic expansion (Innistrad: Crimson Vow).

With such powerful beings sucking angels and demons ichor, you can go way above standard vampires. Another possibility would be that each of them drains a distinct characteristic (STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA), with drained points being added to each member of the coven (with special visual effects like virtual blood being drained into an ectoplasmic leech above the coven).

Or you can go with each of them draining different kinds of powers : martial, divine, demonic, arcane, psionic, skills... And once enough powers are drained a spectral vampire having all these powers comes into being.

[Elves]

You need 6, right? Why not take both?
Only want one snake. When I have a moment to dwell on this, my question is which approach is best suited for the snake instead of another creature.


Another possibility would be that each of them drains a distinct characteristic (STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA), with drained points being added to each member of the coven

That's pretty cool. Also suggests theming. One charismatic, one dexterous, one a beefcake, etc, draining corresponding stats. The physical scores could all be fluffed as blood drinking and the mental ones all as drawing out wisps of spirit.

This is the last fight I have left to do for this module. Have pushed it off because it's a lot of playing pieces.