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Eighth_Seraph
2007-11-18, 04:23 PM
Due to my retirement from the Avatar project in the imminent future, the directory and current topic(s) of discussion will be presented on the following post. That is all.

Lord Tataraus
2007-11-18, 04:30 PM
Directory

Original Bending classes and system (http://tjwatter.googlepages.com/home)
Current Bending classes and system (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54063)
Lord Tartaraus' martial artist class and styles (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61352)
Non-bending classes of the Avatar world (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63834)
Playtesting arena sign-up (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62392)
Playtesting Analysis thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63016)
Creatures and animals of the Avatar world (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63909)
Form creation compendium (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64182)
PDF Review Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3547907)
[hr]

Enhanced Items of Avatar:

In the avatar world, all weapons, armor and tools can gain up to 5 levels of masterwork. This levels are as follows in order: Item of... Masterwork, Renown, Fame, Glory, Legend. All bonuses that the masterwork quality applies are multiplied by the level of masterwork of the item. Additional levels of masterwork cannot be gained, only created as such. You must meet the prerequisite level to benefit from a certain level of masterwork as shown by the table below.

{table=head]Character Level|Maximum Masterwork Level

1-3|
1


4-7|
2


8-11|
3


12-16|
4


17-20|
5

[/table]

In addition to the masterwork levels, any weapon or armor can gain craftsmanship bonuses up to twice their masterwork level. These bonuses can be applied during crafting or afterwards with a 10% price increase with the exception of the AC and Damage increases. Each bonus cost 1000gp base cost.

No item can have more than 1 craftsmanship bonus of the same name at a time. Additionally, if a bonus has different ranks as indicated by roman numerals, you may apply a higher rank over the lower rank by only paying the difference in cost.


Craftsman bonuses:
Weapon bonuses:
{table=head]Name|Level|Effect
Damage Increase I|
1|+1 to damage
Damage Increase II|
2|+2 to damage
Damage Increase III|
3|+3 to damage
Damage Increase IV|
4|+4 to damage
Damage Increase V|
5|+5 to damage
Keen Edge1, 2|
1|double critical threat range
Defending|
1|Gain a +1 bonus to AC for each -1 you take to your attack roll up to your masterwork level, cannot be applied to ammunition
Distance|
1|Double weapon's range increment if any
Razored1, 2|
5|Deals 2 points of damage for 1d4 rounds, Fort DC20 negates. Additional hits do not stack, but extend duration.
Weighted3|
1|double critical threat range
Penetrating4|
2|Ignore DR up to the ammunition's masterwork level and ignore hardness up to twice the masterwork level
[/table]
1 - Slashing weapons only
2 - Piercing weapons only
3 - Bludgeoning weapons only
4 - Ammunition only

Armor bonuses:
{table=head]Name|Level|Effect
DR Increase I1|
1|DR +1/-
DR Increase II1|
2|DR +2/-
DR Increase III1|
3|DR +3/-
DR Increase IV1|
4|DR +4/-
DR Increase V1|
5|DR +5/-
Lined|
3|Cold Resistance 5
Fire Retardant I|
3|Fire Resistance 5
Fire Retardant II|
6|Fire Resistance 10
Reinforced|
1|25% to negate critical hit and/or precision damage
Ergonomic I|
1|Reduce armor check penalty by 3
Ergonomic II|
2|Reduce armor check penalty by 6
[/table]
1 - you may only increase the DR of your armor up to twice the base DR value.

Shield bonuses:
{table=head]Name|Level|Effect
Bashing|
1|Shield bash deals damage as if two sizes larger
Reinforced|
1|25% to negate critical hit and/or precision damage
Deflecting|
5|Grants a bonus to Deflect and Block Bending attempts equal to the shield's AC bonus
[/table]

Masterwork cost by level:
{table=head]Level|Weapon Cost|Armor Cost|Tool Cost

1|
300|
300|
50


2|
630|
630|
105


3|
960|
960|
160


4|
1290|
1290|
215


5|
1620|
1620|
270


[/table]
Formula for over level 1: Cost = base_cost*(level+(level-1)/10)

Craftsmanship cost by level (take the total level of all bonuses):
{table=head]Level|Weapon Cost|Armor Cost

1|
1000|
1000


2|
2000|
1500


3|
4500|
3375


4|
6000|
4500


5|
7500|
5625


6|
9000|
6750


7|
10500|
7875


8|
12000|
9000


9|
13500|
10125


10|
15000|
11250

[/table]
Weapon formula for over level 1: Cost = base_cost*(level+level/2)
Armor formula for over level 1: Cost = base_cost*(level+level/2)*3/4

Note: Ammunition counts as a Weapon for determining cost except it applies to 50 units. Additionally, you may add 1/2 (rounded up) of the ammunition's masterwork bonus on attack rolls to the masterwork bonus from the weapon.


Special Materials
Metals: (All multipliers are based off steel)
{table=head]Material Name|Real-World Equivalent|ACP Change|AC Change|DR Change|To Hit Change|Damage Change|Hardness/HP per inch|Weight Multiplier|Cost Multiplier
Steel|Carbon-Iron|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|
10/30|
x1|
x1

Cold/Wrought Iron|Iron|
+1|
+0|
+1|
-1|
+0|
10/30|
x1.25|
x0.75

Cast Iron|Iron|
+1|
+1|
+0|
-1|
-1|
10/25|
x1.25|
x0.5

Wootz Steel|Phosphorous-Iron Alloy|
+0|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+0|
15/30|
x1|
x2

Stainless Steel|Chromium-Nickel-Iron Alloy|
+0|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+0|
18/30|
x1|
x2.5

Copper|Copper|
-1|
-1|
-1|
+1|
+0|
8/20|
x0.8|
x0.5

Bronze|Copper-Tin Alloy|
-1|
-1|
+0|
+1|
+0|
9/20|
x1.1|
x1

Mithral|Aluminum Alloy|
-2|
+0|
+2|
+2|
-1|
15/30|
x0.25|
x10

Adamantium|Titanium-Iron Alloy|
-2|
+2|
+3|
+2|
+1|
20/40|
x0.5|
x20
[/table]

Woods: (All multipliers are based off Elm wood)
{table=head]Material Name|Real-World Equivalent|ACP Change2|AC Change2|To Hit Change1|Range Change1|Hardness/HP per inch|Weight Multiplier|Cost Multiplier
Elm|European White Elm|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0%|
5/10|
x1|
x1

Yew|Italian Yew|
-2|
-1|
+2|
+20%|
4/10|
x0.75|
x3

Ash|European Ash|
-1|
-1|
+1|
+10%|
4/10|
x1|
x1.5

Ironwood|Southern Live Oak|
+2|
+4|
-2|
-10%|
10/25|
x1.5|
x4

Bamboo|Bamboo|
-3|
+1|
-5|
-50%|
6/12|
x0.25|
x1
[/table]
1- To hit bonus and range multiplier apply only to straight bows. 2- The ACP and AC changes apply only to shields.

Eighth_Seraph
2007-11-18, 04:49 PM
Oh, and before I forget; I'd like to ask the OP's of the various homebrew threads made for this setting if you guys could tag the threads with [Avatar Project] so that people that want to contribute to the project can find the right place to more easily and so if a new thread is made to go along with the project we can identify it and add it to the directory here.

I like the addition of Razored to the craftsmanship bonuses, Tataraus. I take it that it was inspired by the Wounding magical ability? It looks good, but shouldn't it have a "slashing weapons only" note?

I'm a bit apprehensive about making DR bonuses have a 1 to 1 ratio for craftsmanship to effect. With that, a heavy-type fighter can get a DR 9/- using fullplate and still use his other 5 points for whatever he wants. Didn't the original system have it cost 2 per point of DR?

Lord Tataraus
2007-11-18, 05:23 PM
I forgot to remove the change to masterwork armor, we decided to keep it the same as normal to have armor as DR not AC mean more. Also I added superscript notation to the craftsmanship bonuses so you'll notice the notes more.

Mr. Moogle
2007-11-18, 05:36 PM
Thanks for condensing all the material down into one fourm it makes it much more easy to use :smallsmile:

Eighth_Seraph
2007-11-18, 06:00 PM
You're welcome! It's to help me as much as you, but I'm glad it helps.

Anyway, good balancing factor there, Tataraus; looks good and makes sense. Question: do masterwork bonuses for bows and arrows stack under this system? I think it would be a good idea, but that usually makes for lively discussion, so what do you think?

Also, I think it would be a good idea to make craftsmanship bonuses for arrows, like Penetrating to ignore a certain amount of hardness (arrows are weighted). Any ideas?

Lord Tataraus
2007-11-18, 06:02 PM
You're welcome! It's to help me as much as you, but I'm glad it helps.

Anyway, good balancing factor there, Tataraus; looks good and makes sense. Question: do masterwork bonuses for bows and arrows stack under this system? I think it would be a good idea, but that usually makes for lively discussion, so what do you think?

Also, I think it would be a good idea to make craftsmanship bonuses for arrows, like Penetrating to ignore a certain amount of hardness (arrows are weighted). Any ideas?

Hm...good ideas, that might work very well. Ranged combat has always been looked down upon. Maybe not directly stacking, but the arrow can add 1/2 its bonus? What sort of arrow abilities should their be other than penetrating? And what would penetrating do? I should read your post more thoroughly:smallredface:

levi
2007-11-18, 06:57 PM
If the mastercrafting rules are considered finished (or nearly so), we should discuss what the wealth by level guidelines should be. Standard DnD wealth progression is silly in Avatar. (Even when cut in half, as was done for the playtest.) Idealy, the wealth guidelines should line up closely with the level restrictions on mastercraft gear so that a character can have, at most, a mastercraft weapon and armor appropriate for thier level. (Provided they spend all thier wealth on such items.)

I did a little math and came up with the formula: level * level * 100 gp. Here's a table of what that yeilds.

{table=head]Level | Wealth | Level | Wealth
1st | 100 gp | 11th | 12100 gp
2nd | 400 gp | 12th | 14400 gp
3rd | 900 gp | 13th | 16900 gp
4th | 1600 gp | 14th | 19600 gp
5th | 2500 gp | 15th | 22500 gp
6th | 3600 gp | 16th | 25600 gp
7th | 4900 gp | 17th | 28900 gp
8th | 6400 gp | 18th | 32400 gp
9th | 8100 gp | 19th | 36100 gp
10th | 10000 gp | 20th | 40000 gp[/table]

This progression allows characters to get one decently mastercrafted item at level four. At level nine, that one item can be as good as they can legally have. It isn't untill the mid teens that they can afford two maxed out items. I think it works pretty well. What do you think?

On a different note, you might want to add a link to The Avatar d20 Website (http://tjwatter.googlepages.com/home) to the OP.

I think someone should create a thread for making creatures specific to the setting. There are a lot of interesting hybrid animals in Avatar, but I don't know if any of them have stats yet, other than the handful on the website. That would also give us a place to discuss which standard d20 monsters do and don't fit the setting.

Archangel Yuki
2007-11-18, 07:22 PM
Could you apply this to seperate pieces of your armor? That way, we could break it up just like D&D: Gauntlets to apply bonuses to, Boots, Headbands, Ext. Ext.

Copacetic
2007-11-18, 08:07 PM
Okay, suggestion. What about the animals of the Avatar world? Shouldn't we stat out them? Appa deserves some love too....

EDIT:ninja'd darn.

Xiagu
2007-11-18, 08:20 PM
I think someone should create a thread for making creatures specific to the setting. There are a lot of interesting hybrid animals in Avatar, but I don't know if any of them have stats yet, other than the handful on the website. That would also give us a place to discuss which standard d20 monsters do and don't fit the setting.


Okay, suggestion. What about the animals of the Avatar world? Shouldn't we stat out them? Appa deserves some love too....

EDIT:ninja'd darn.

I am in awe that Levi can simu-ninja people an hour in the future... :smallwink:

But on that subject, even though this is the wrong thread (they get derailed so soon :smallsigh: ), there's a detailed list of all the creatures that appear in the show here (http://www.avatarspiritmedia.net/creatures.php).

Eighth_Seraph
2007-11-18, 09:08 PM
Meph did stat up a few of the creatures here (http://tjwatter.googlepages.com/creatures%26opponents), but they function under the original system, so they don't have any ranks in the appropriate skills. That's easily remedied, though. A good deal of the creatures in the page you showed us would work well as minor creatures with CR below one; but the major creatures (Onagi, Sea Serpent, Platypusbear, etc.) would need some complete stat blocks. I am absolutely terrible at creatures, so I'll look back and nod sagely from the sidelines whenever someone makes the thread for the creatures.

By the way, Tataraus, I like the idea of half of arrows' masterwork bonus apply to attack roll (rounded up?); finally makes ranged combat worthwhile. I'm working on other ways to do so, but I'll place that in the non-bending classes thread.

levi
2007-11-18, 09:11 PM
The website has stats for the following: Badger-Mole, Canyon Crawler, Flying Bison, and Shirshu.

ErrantX
2007-11-18, 10:04 PM
Creature thread is started, send your creature comments and talks this-a-way (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63909).

-X

Eighth_Seraph
2007-11-19, 06:36 PM
Alright, the creature thread has been added to the OP.

Anyway, I've found two problems while I statted out the bending classes and just recently with the non-benders. The first comes with the Will save, which has become all but useless with the elimination of spellcasting. As of now, not including any splatbook classes that Meph posted somewhere on the bending thread, there are two Will saves in the setting. The first is to
'disbelieve' the 'illusions' a waterbender can make through the Mist seed. The second is the screaming bird's Uneartly Wail. Are there any other uses for the Will save in a magic-less world? I don't want it to feel like the benders are getting gypped out of a good save.

Also, the Charisma and Wisdom stats have lost the majority of their value. Nobody needs Will saves anymore, it seems, so Wisdom is only really useful to benders and NPC sages. Charisma is only useful for diplomancers and Leadership cheese now that spontaneous spellcasting is out. Are there any sourcebooks that allow for more non-magical possibilities for these stats? Charisma is a dump stat too much in standard D&D already.

levi
2007-11-20, 04:04 AM
Well, a high Will save is good for resisting Dai Li brainwashing. It may also be useful in various ways when interacting with the spirit world and spirit creatures. (Not getting your face stolen and stuff like that.)

As for Charisma, I'm not sure. It is the key stat for a number of skills and social interaction does seem to play a larger role in Avatar than it does in many DnD adventures. It also has major RP effects if the GM chooses to use them.

One idea I've always liked is that Cha can influence the price of goods and serviced. I'm not sure about the Avatar world, but in a setting where haggling is commonplace (or even mandatory), a high Cha character can get better deals. Of course, I suppose we'd need formal rules for this, but the Giant's Diplomancy variant would be a good baseline.

Orzel
2007-11-20, 06:51 AM
You could give the ranger and the barabarion fear attacks that target Will saves. Th e ranger could cause fear strikes via terrifying attacks where the barbarian could gain frightful presence when enraged.

Predatory Strike- A ranger can make an attack terrifying, even if it misses. Predatory Strike forces a foe targeted by your attack to make a Will saving throw (DC 10 + ½ your ranger level + Cha modifier) or be shaken for 2 rounds. A ranger may attempt a predatory strike once per day for every 2 ranger levels and no more than once per round. Creatures immune to fear are immune to predatory strike. An opponent that succeeds on the saving throw is immune to that same creature’s Predatory Strike for 24 hours.

Improved Predatory Strike- At the 10th level, a ranger's predatory strike causes the target to be Frightened on a unsuccessful Will save.

Frightful rage- At the 3rd level, when enraged a barbarian has Frightful Presence out 30 feet and the duration is 2d6 rounds.. An affected opponent can resist the effects with a successful Will save (DC 10 + ½ barbarian level + frightful creature’s Cha modifier. This ability frightens opponents with fewer Hit Dice or levels than the barbarian has. Those with equal of more HD are shaken.

Greater Frightful rage- At the 9th level, a barbarian's effective level for her Frightful rage is increased by 1. It gain increases by 1 at level 18.

levi
2007-11-20, 08:32 AM
RE Frightful Rage

Isn't there a feat that does that, Terrifing Rage or something like that. I'll go see if I can find it.

Edit: Ok, found it. (Gotta love Wizards' Unified Lists.)

There are two feats to this effect, Intimidating Rage, and Terrifying Rage. The first is found in Complete Warrior and Masters of the Wild. The second is found in the Dungeon Master's Guide and the Epic Level Handbook.

While the second one is technically Epic, it's effect is definetly not. If the prereqs where lowered and the Epic status removed, it would make a nice general Barbarian feat and allow for the introduction of a few more Will saves.

Lord Tataraus
2007-11-20, 10:18 AM
One idea I've always liked is that Cha can influence the price of goods and serviced. I'm not sure about the Avatar world, but in a setting where haggling is commonplace (or even mandatory), a high Cha character can get better deals. Of course, I suppose we'd need formal rules for this, but the Giant's Diplomancy variant would be a good baseline.

Haggle rules - Complete Adventure page 98
There's your official rules.

As for will saves, they should be limited to spirits I think. I don't like the Ranger getting a fear effect, its just not their style. The Barbarian is more likely, but I don't know if I agree that the barbarian exists in the Avatar world.

Attilargh
2007-11-20, 10:27 AM
If you spend the two skill points, there's really not much separating a fighter and a barbarian. One has a fighting style built from a number of feats, while the other has a fighting style that hits really, really hard and wears him down. A bit like Zuko's bending style early in the series, come to think of it.

Lord Tataraus
2007-11-20, 11:51 AM
Just to let people know, I've created a new thread for reviewing the Avatar D20 pdf here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3547907) I would like to get as much input as possible on this to make it a much better publication.


Thanks,
- Lord Tataraus

Copacetic
2007-11-24, 01:36 PM
Hey, what about a PvE playtest? Not a full blown campaign, but just a few different parties, throw them agaisn't a couple of ogres, then some canyon crawlers and see how they compare? Top it off with a boss fight and BAM! One nice playtest with a cherry on top.:smalltongue:

Mephibosheth
2007-11-24, 01:42 PM
Hey, if we can find someone to DM it, I'm all over that like a Waterbender on some stewed sea prunes.

Copacetic
2007-11-24, 02:38 PM
:smallbiggrin: Sweet. If Lord Tartarus/Eighth Seraph would be willing(*ahem*) to help, then we should open a thread and find some people.

Eighth_Seraph
2007-11-24, 06:04 PM
Charisma for haggling: Thumbs up!
Increased social interaction: Good topic of discussion that we should handle in the immediate future.
Barbarians in the setting: I definitely plan to keep the four core melee classes (Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, Rogue) in order to represent different kinds of learning in terms of fighting. Barbarians learn in a warlike or otherwise war-demanding culture where fighting is not a science and the emphasis is on getting hit and hitting back. Fighters are students of the art of war: studying techniques and tactics to become effective. Monks study the use of the body as a weapon and perfecting their own capacity in that respect. Rogues are, well, rogues. No change from anywhere else here. Note that these are not what I think they are in general; but how I want to represent them in the setting. Non-core classes will be handed case-by-case.
Fear effects for Rangers & barbarians:Not so much. If there's already feats in place to do that, let the GM handle it.
pdf review thread: Soon to be linked in the OP.
Playtest: All over it like gooey creme-filled cake on an airbender elder. I can't participate in the test itself, but I'll link it here as soon as it's up. It's best that I not be OP since I don't have the time to participate. Anyone willing to DM it can step up and make the thread, then we can go on advertising in the 'spokes' stemming from this hub.

Lord Tataraus
2007-11-26, 10:51 PM
Just thought I should notify the people here that the second draft of the Avatar D20 pdf is up for download here! (http://www.bestsharing.com/files/0FyfjJ372625/Avatar%20D20%20Draft.pdf.html)

Comments, suggestions, missing info reports, etc. should be posted in the Avatar D20 PDF proofread discussion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64046) thread.

Eighth_Seraph
2007-11-27, 04:29 PM
I have a question on this setting's rendition of the Defending craftsmanship bonus. From what I can tell, it grants Combat Expertise to the wielder, except that it can't be used as pre-req for other feats. If I'm right in my interpretation, then does the quality also stack with use of the Combat Expertise feat? As in, does it make the attack penalty to AC bonus ratio 1:2? Or does it simply mean that you can take up to 10 from your AC instead of five?

Also, a note on the Penetrating ammunition craftsmanship bonus: when I suggested it, I was thinking of how the Yu Yan archers broke through Aang's two foot thick wall of ice. By that I mean that it should ignore hardness, and not damage resistance.

Also, I had a wild idea to make the crafting of weapons and armor a more complex and variable system. Remember all the different types of steel that were in Sokka's master's smithy? Maybe we could make slight variations in materials that could really personalize armor. Things like slightly lighter substances that gave an AC 1 point lower than the armor's usual one. Or a tradeoff of AC for a lower check penalty, or vise versa. For weapons, damage penalties in exchange for attack bonuses, variations in hardness and hit points per inch, materials that are very difficult to mold into sharp edges but make excellent bludgeoning weapons, brittle arrow tips that break off inside a wound to cause additional damage or infection. Then, of course, come the adamantine, mithril, and ironwood clones. Then, maybe, we can make some obscenely expensive materials with serious bonuses. Extremely dense, refined metal that can penetrate the armor on Fire Nation tanks but is far too heavy to be used in anything but mounted weapons (like the turrets seen in The Day of Black Sun), extremely hard, light substances reminiscent of Frodo's mithril chain shirt, and the like.

Is it too much? I think it would make finding weapons a more interesting experience for players and opens up all kinds of options. On the other hand, it could overcomplicate matters; but then the players could just stick to standard steel.

Lord Tataraus
2007-11-27, 05:13 PM
Well lets see, real world metals available for use in weapons and armor (based on the technology seen in the show):

Steel (Carbon-Iron alloy)
Cold/Wrought Iron
Cast Iron
Stainless Steel (Phosphorous-Iron alloy)
Stainless Steel (Chromium-Iron alloy, Steel, slightly different than Phosphorous)
Copper
Bronze (Copper-Tin alloy)
Aluminum (Mithral)
Titanium (alternate Mithral)

My dad has a PhD in Materials Engineering so I'll talk to him to make this as realistic as possible.

Edit: I was so deep in considering the materials question, I forgot your other questions! So:
Defending is in addition to Combat Expertise but runs off the Masterwork Value instead.
If penetrating ignores Hardness, it would ignore DR as well, I'll add the hardness bit now.

Edit 2: I've created an thread unrelated to the Avatar Project here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64755) where I've implemented the materials idea. Take a look and if you wish to incorporate it here, I'll do so.

Eighth_Seraph
2007-11-27, 06:24 PM
That's great! If we can settle the real world materials with the help of someone that actually knows something about them (which is an amazing draw), then we can get on to the fantasy materials. Mithril as portrayed in Lord of the Rings is obviously a fantastical material, since it's since it's "light as a feather, yet hard as dragon scales" as Bilbo put it, and Frodo apparently forgets that he's even wearing it at times. In context, this could mean a major bonus to DR along with a reduction of eight to one-fourth the original. This level of material would, of course, have a price hike in the area of 10,000 gold pieces for light armor, due to its immense rareness and potency (Gandalf did mention that the mail shirt was worth more than the Shire and everything in it).

The idea could also strongly affect the setting, since some areas may be renowned for the quality of their metal and characters might travel great distances to find enough adamantine to make a longsword, for example.

Let's get started on the obligatory fantasy materials, then. We need to represent Sokka's meteorite sword, and just for contrast throw in the light-but-strong material in there. Sokka's sword seemed to be weighted normally, but was strong enough to cut straight through the turrets in The Day of Black Sun. Re-flavored adamantine might work well here, with an exorbitant price due to rarity or a simple n/a, since it can only really be found. If we're really hitting this seriously, it would be a good idea to list the effects if materials are used in Melee weapons, ammunition, or armor. Different woods would be good for bows, too, but I know nothing of that particular craft.

Lord Tataraus
2007-11-27, 06:47 PM
Actually, Mithral is Aluminum. My dad said that based on all the fantasy descriptions, they all are true to the characteristics of Aluminum (intentional or not). As for Sokka's meteor sword, the light-but-strong material you're looking for is Titanium (or more correctly, a ferro-titanium, an iron-titanium alloy). Its is about 50% lighter and stronger than steel though due to its rarity and extremely difficult refining processes, it could not be effectively used until the early 1800s/late 1700s in the real world. I would gage the avatar world technology to be more into the early 1990s sans firearms (since bending is more effective).

As for wood materials, live Oak is probably the equivalent of Bronzewood (Eberron?). Ever hear of the boat "Old Ironsides" (USS Constitution)? It was constructed of Southern live oak indigenous to America and prove to be so strong that cannon balls bounced off of it. Bamboo could be the Darkwood of the avatar world (it is extremely light, but very strong). If not bamboo, I'll have to do a bit of research...

Lord Tataraus
2007-11-30, 07:49 PM
Just an update notice on the Item Enhancement stuff, I've added the special materials (still under development). So, comments, suggestions, outrages, rants, groveling :smallamused: , etc.?

Enlong
2007-11-30, 08:22 PM
OK, so I've been watching Day of Black Sun, and I noticed something. Someone NEEDS to stat out those Earthbender Caterpiller Tanks. So much Flintstones-y goodness.

Darkbane
2007-12-01, 09:15 AM
Submarine stats would also be useful.

Eighth_Seraph
2007-12-02, 02:21 PM
This looks like a job for...anyone with the Arms and Equipment Guide. Who here falls under that umbrella?

Also, it seems that we now need to establish exactly which variant rules we'll be using in the setting. Here's what the general project seems to be basing a great deal of assumptions on:

-Class Defense Bonus
-Armor as Damage Reduction
-Lord Tataraus' weapon and armor enhancement rules
-Lord Tataraus' weapon and armor materials
-Non-bending classes will be handled either by Tataraus' martial artist class or the variant classes that I'm handling in the thread made for that purpose (see directory for both), depending on which one your DM prefers.
-Skills: Meph established a variant use of Knowledge (arcana) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3403592) somewhere, involving fortune-telling. Alongside that is my Knowledge (nature) variant use for rangers and undefined other classes (probably just NPC herbalists; see the non-bender thread) to identify, harvest and properly apply healing herbs and natural poisons. There has also been talk of making The Giant's (or was it Amber's? I forget) system for use of Knowledge skills official. Thoughts on this?

Now there's an interesting idea as to how to handle the "gift" of bending itself. We've established on the bending thread that some people can do it, and some can't. The term "the force" has come up as a system to emulate and, quite frankly, I'm not repulsed by the idea. It would take a first level feat to make a character "bending-capable". The feat would open up the appropriate bending class and may even allow the use of very basic innate bending without taking the class. Red light, green light, or "Well...maybe...."? This is a setting-altering decision, so I felt it should go here rather than the bending thread. It does have powerful implications on that end, too, though, so I'll alert them to the discussion.

Darkbane
2007-12-03, 01:47 PM
I think the bending classes should remain seperate, and then we can either suppose that Yue and others took a dip, OR we could make a feat allowing people like Yue to use Manipulate/Play With Fire/Move a Rock.

Mephibosheth
2007-12-03, 02:05 PM
I support including Amber Scott's Knowledge skills variant rule, but I think it should be a sidebar option. I love the system and think it's a wonderful way to encourage players to invest in Knowledge skills, but it can be unwieldy and not all DM's might want to use it.

On the issue of how to determine who can bend, I don't really see why we need a feat to represent the basic potential to be a bender. There's no feat requirement to become a sorcerer or favored soul (the closest analogies I can think of from already-existing content). I also think the show establishes pretty clearly that becoming a bender takes discipline and practice, and I think that a feat allowing access to basic bending isn't really supported by the show. Why don't we just say that people with levels in bending classes had the potential. After all, benders are pretty common, and the DM can easily determine the number of benders as a proportion of total population by how he/she allocates bending classes among NPC's.

Xiagu
2007-12-03, 09:44 PM
This looks like a job for...anyone with the Arms and Equipment Guide. Who here falls under that umbrella?
*snip*
Now there's an interesting idea as to how to handle the "gift" of bending itself. We've established on the bending thread that some people can do it, and some can't. The term "the force" has come up as a system to emulate and, quite frankly, I'm not repulsed by the idea. It would take a first level feat to make a character "bending-capable". The feat would open up the appropriate bending class and may even allow the use of very basic innate bending without taking the class. Red light, green light, or "Well...maybe...."? This is a setting-altering decision, so I felt it should go here rather than the bending thread. It does have powerful implications on that end, too, though, so I'll alert them to the discussion.

Oooh! Oooh! Me! I do! Finally, a chance to use my dusty rulebooks... (if I ever have time, between writing up 50-ish pages of corrections and writing up the things and comments I have about seeds'n'stuff...)

----

I oppose a feat as a requirement for bending classes, because it just seems... ...not right. Or something. Meh...

Following the sorcerer analogy, (which is a great analogy) sorcerous powers are inborn things too, and as Mephibosheth said, they don't require a feat either. ('Course, that doesn't really mean anything because everyone could multiclass to sorcerer...) Also, the PHB talks about budding sorcerers having limited control over their powers. So NPC benders may have the ability to bend, (so are technically Xbenders but dont' have levels in that class) but not very well and aren't formally trained. (Somewhat supported by Katara before finding the scroll. And this is starting to sound like a featish kind of thing. Oh well...)

I recall 'apprentice-level' things, intended for multiclassing at first level. (Aha! I found it! 3.0 DMG p. 40, if you think it matters)

The best solution I can think of is an NPC improved Commoner class that gets Play with Fire/Manipulate/etc. at first level, but is otherwise identical to a normal Commoner. (Normal Commoners stay normal. They were never meant to be balanced anyways...)

Xiagu
2007-12-04, 09:37 PM
Right, so just throwing stuff out here:

Earthbender tank thingies (hereafter referred to as ETTs) have three parts; a front, a back, and an articulated middle section.
Said middle section appears to be made of metal, just like the rest of the tank.
The articulated bit seems to be able to move horizontally as well as vertically.
The ETTs are probably made of and/or armored in iron (or steel?)
ETTs probably have a 10-foot face, are 10 feet tall, and are somewhere from 20 to 40 feet long.
ETTs are propelled by stone treads, which are moved by backwards-facing earthbenders pushing said treads backwards with their feet.
There are three treads; one in front, one in back, and one in the middle. They can move independantly.
Earthbending the treads allows the ETT to lift its front or back half off the ground and smash something with it.
It also allows them to climb on top of things and crush them. (Constrict..?)
They seem to be immune to fire blasts and missiles (Fire resistance, anyone?)
Running people over doesn't seem to unreasonable either. (Crush? Trample?)
They don't move that fast; somewhere between 10 feet to 20 feet per round (Or, it could depend on the Move a Rock seed...)
Based on how they're controlled, the skill for controlling them is probably Earthbending.
Seeing is accomplished through a thin gap between the roof and the walls.


That's all the things I could think of right now, and I'd like to get other people to contribute to this. So if you spot anything else ETTs can do or some stuff they can't do, please post it.

ErrantX
2007-12-05, 01:38 AM
I gave it some thinking over and I must say, while initially I was approving of the Bending-sensitive feat, in the end I'm not. Bending is far too common in this world, and the sorcerer analogy that Meph used pretty much nipped that in the bud. I vote nay on a feat to make one capable of bending.

-X

Copacetic
2007-12-05, 08:56 AM
I gave it some thinking over and I must say, while initially I was approving of the Bending-sensitive feat, in the end I'm not. Bending is far too common in this world, and the sorcerer analogy that Meph used pretty much nipped that in the bud. I vote nay on a feat to make one capable of bending.

-X
Yeah, this pretty much sums it up.

Xiagu
2007-12-05, 07:24 PM
Okay, I'll take the silence as agreement.

Here are things that are definitely not set in stone: (Nothing is, but these especially aren't.)

The size of an ETT: from 25 ft. to 40 ft. (5 to 8 squares)
Damage from all attacks.
Armor plating: how much of it and what it's made of. (Current 2 layers of iron)
The save DC for half squashing damage.
The type of an ETT's attacks. (Currently, rearing up and smashing things and crawling onto things and constricting them are Supernatural abililties)


Current stats for an ETT: (written in new official format, bleah)
Earthbender Tank Thingy
Gargantuan vehicle
[hr]Overall AC 1 (10 - 4 size - 5 Dex)
Section AC 3 (10 - 1 size (Large) - 5 Dex = 4, but all the other vehicles say 3, so I'll go with that)
Section hp 60/30 (hardness 10/10) (2 layers of 1 inch iron plating + iron base)
[hr]Speed land 10 ft (2 squares) (clumsy)
Face 10 ft. by 30 ft.
Height 10 ft.
Special Actions Squash, slam, crush, push
Ram special
[hr]SQ object traits, articulated, ramming plate
Crew 6 (extrapolated from the Boulder and the Hippo moving one tread, and there are three treads...)
Weight Somewhere between 87.5 tons and 97.5 tons. (2 layers of iron armor * 11 sections (6 walls, 2 front/back, 3 roof) = 110,000 lbs = 55 tons. Plus the base layer, which is another 27.5 tons, plus whatever the internal structure and treads actually weigh.)
Cost A lot? (2 layers of iron armor * 11 sections = 22,000 gp. Plus the cost of everything else...)
[hr]Object Traits Like all inamimate objects, an ETT is immune to critical hits, subdual damage, and sneak attacks. It takes half damage from all ranged weapons smaller than seige engines, as well as from acid, fire, and lightning. Cold attacks deal one-quarter damage. Divide the damage by 2 or 4 before subtracting the ETT's hardness. Sonic attacks deal full damage. ETTs automatically fail all saving throws.
Articulated Because they are articulated, ETTs can lift themselves onto buildings or ledges up to twice as tall as they are (up to 20 feet). Doing this costs an additional 10 feet (2 squares) of movement. ETTs may also climb stairs and any incline of 60 degrees or less. Any creatures inside buildings the ETT is climbing over are entitled an attack of opportunity (assuming they can see it and have enough room to attack it), or may flee. In order to climb onto objects, the earthbender piloting the ETT must succeed on an Earthbending check (DC 20 + 5 for each 5 foot increment climbed).
Crush (Su?) If an ETT is on top of an object less long than it is, is can constrict and crush the object as a standard action. Crushing deals 12d10+20 points of bludgeoning damage, and ignores 10 points of hardness. This ability only works on solid objects of Large size or greater. To use this ability, the earthbender piloting the ETT must succeed on an Earthbending check (DC 32)
Squash (Ex) If an ETT moves through the square of a prone creature or object that is at least two size categories smaller than itself, it deals 10d10+20 points of bludgeoning damage to the unfortunate opponent. A creature may make a Reflex save (DC 29) for half damage. (Ripped and slightly edited from the Juggernaut, MM3 p. 132)
Slam (Su?) By lifting its front or back end off the ground and smashing it down, an ETT can deal tremendous amounts of damage. As a standard action, an ETT can lift its front or back half and smash it down on something, dealing 6d6+10 points of bludgeoning damage. The ETT cannot move for the rest of the round after using this ability. Affected creatures are entitled to a Reflex save (DC 14), and if successful dive to the side in an adjacent square of their chosing. If they fail the Reflex save, they are considered pinned, and must make a successful Strength check (DC 20) or Escape Artist check (DC 35) to escape. Pinned creatures that do not escape are subject to the ETT's Squash ability on its next turn. To use this ability, the earthbender piloting the ETT must succeed on an Earthbending check (DC 32).
Push (Ex) Whenever an ETT would normally ram a creature, the creature must succeed on a DC 15 Reflex save or be pushed backwards 5 feet and knocked prone. A successful save means that the creature is pushed back or aside (creature's choice) but not knocked prone.

Things left to be done: get you guys to approve of it, write up Slam and Crush, and put in something about how ETTs can climb stairs and lift themselves onto small buildings.

EDIT: Fire resistance removed, articulated SQ added, and Slam and Crush are statted out! Now unlurk and post something! :smalltongue:

Darkbane
2007-12-06, 01:11 PM
I think the ETT armor is actually made of stone. That way, earthbenders can lift the whole tank, making it easy to crush small buildings. As for the Fire Blasts being ineffective, normal Fire Blasts don't damage objects, Explosive Blasts deal half damage to nonflammable objects, and objects take half fire damage on top of that. So the tanks are only taking one-quarter of the normal damage from the Fire Blasts, not enough to be readily visible.

Xiagu
2007-12-06, 07:43 PM
*examines ETTs again*

Well, generally, stone is more difficult to work with than iron...
...but not when you have earthbenders!

ETTs could definitely be made of stone. Let me find the stats for stone somewhere... (the spell wall of stone, quoted below)


Each 5-foot square of the wall has 15 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 8.
It's consistent with other stuff, so that's probably right. Now, how much does stone weigh?

Normal Fire Blasts don't affect objects? Huh. I took object's resistance to fire into account when giving these fire resistance, but if Fire Blasts don't affect objects, I'll take it out.

I'm ambivalent about stone vs. iron. Stone has half the hp and 80% of the hardness of iron, but seems thematically appropriate. Hmm...

Lord Tataraus
2007-12-10, 12:03 PM
For those of you who have not seen my post in the bender thread, I have started up a thread to vote for a new project leader (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66153). It is currently in the nomination phase and it is important that everyone participate. Thank you.

Xiagu
2007-12-14, 07:17 PM
Yeesh, all the threads but one are dead...

The Slam and Crush abilities of the ETTs have been statted out.

Now unlurk and post something! :smallannoyed:

For quick reference, the new stats are here as well:
Earthbender Tank Thingy
Gargantuan vehicle
[hr]Overall AC 1 (10 - 4 size - 5 Dex)
Section AC 3 (10 - 1 size (Large) - 5 Dex = 4, but all the other vehicles say 3, so I'll go with that)
Section hp 30/15 (hardness 8/8) (2 layers of 1 inch stone armor + stone base)
[hr]Speed land 10 ft (2 squares) (clumsy)
Face 10 ft. by 30 ft.
Height 10 ft.
Special Actions Squash, slam, crush, push
Ram special
[hr]SQ object traits, articulated, ramming plate
Crew 6 (extrapolated from the Boulder and the Hippo moving one tread, and there are three treads...)
Weight Now that it's made of stone, I have absolutely no idea... ...some help please... Somewhere between 87.5 tons and 97.5 tons. (2 layers of iron armor * 11 sections (6 walls, 2 front/back, 3 roof) = 110,000 lbs = 55 tons. Plus the base layer, which is another 27.5 tons, plus whatever the internal structure and treads actually weigh.)
Cost A lot? (2 layers of iron armor * 11 sections = 22,000 gp. Plus the cost of everything else...) It's made of stone now. No idea...
[hr]Object Traits Like all inamimate objects, an ETT is immune to critical hits, subdual damage, and sneak attacks. It takes half damage from all ranged weapons smaller than seige engines, as well as from acid, fire, and lightning. Cold attacks deal one-quarter damage. Divide the damage by 2 or 4 before subtracting the ETT's hardness. Sonic attacks deal full damage. ETTs automatically fail all saving throws.
Articulated Because they are articulated, ETTs can lift themselves onto buildings or ledges up to twice as tall as they are (up to 20 feet). Doing this costs an additional 10 feet (2 squares) of movement. ETTs may also climb stairs and any incline of 60 degrees or less. Any creatures inside buildings the ETT is climbing over are entitled an attack of opportunity (assuming they can see it and have enough room to attack it), or may flee. In order to climb onto objects, the earthbender piloting the ETT must succeed on an Earthbending check (DC 20 + 5 for each 5 foot increment climbed).
Crush (Su?) If an ETT is on top of an object less long than it is, is can constrict and crush the object as a standard action. Crushing deals 12d10+20 points of bludgeoning damage, and ignores 10 points of hardness. This ability only works on solid objects of Large size or greater. To use this ability, the earthbender piloting the ETT must succeed on an Earthbending check (DC 32)
Squash (Ex) If an ETT moves through the square of a prone creature or object that is at least two size categories smaller than itself, it deals 10d10+20 points of bludgeoning damage to the unfortunate opponent. A creature may make a Reflex save (DC 29) for half damage. (Ripped and slightly edited from the Juggernaut, MM3 p. 132)
Slam (Su?) By lifting its front or back end off the ground and smashing it down, an ETT can deal tremendous amounts of damage. As a standard action, an ETT can lift its front or back half and smash it down on something, dealing 12d6+10 points of bludgeoning damage. The ETT cannot move for the rest of the round after using this ability. Affected creatures are entitled to a Reflex save (DC 14), and if successful dive to the side in an adjacent square of their chosing. If they fail the Reflex save, they are considered pinned, and must make a successful Strength check (DC 20) or Escape Artist check (DC 35) to escape. Pinned creatures that do not escape are subject to the ETT's Squash ability on its next turn. To use this ability, the earthbender piloting the ETT must succeed on an Earthbending check (DC 32).
Push (Ex) Whenever an ETT would normally ram a creature, the creature must succeed on a DC 15 Reflex save or be pushed backwards 5 feet and knocked prone. A successful save means that the creature is pushed back or aside (creature's choice) but not knocked prone.
Again, I ask the Playground (that means you lurkers out there too!) for your comments, especially on (but not limited to) the following:

The length of an ETT: from 25 ft. to 40 ft. (5 to 8 squares)
Damage from all attacks.
Earthbending DCs to use abilities
Armor plating: how much of it and what it's made of. (Currently 2 layers of iron, but might be stone)
The save DC for half squashing damage and other abilities
The type of an ETT's attacks. (Currently, rearing up and smashing things and crawling onto things and constricting them are Supernatural abililties)


EDIT: Changed armor to stone, changed length to 40 ft, and increased damage from Slam to 12d6+10. Anything else?

Lord Tataraus
2007-12-14, 08:02 PM
Yeesh, all the threads but one are dead...
Well, at least for me its finals week so I'm studying a lot and soon will be going home where I won't have a good internet connection. That and the fact that we don't have any one leading and pushing the threads are probably the reasons for the dead threads.



The length of an ETT: from 25 ft. to 40 ft. (5 to 8 squares)
Damage from all attacks.
Earthbending DCs to use abilities
Armor plating: how much of it and what it's made of. (Currently 2 layers of iron, but might be stone)
The save DC for half squashing damage and other abilities
The type of an ETT's attacks. (Currently, rearing up and smashing things and crawling onto things and constricting them are Supernatural abililties)

I'd say 40ft for the length.
The damage for the attacks all look fine except I'd double the slam damage (at least increase the dice rolled). I'd lower the Earthbending DCs some and all the abilities should be Ex since its the construction of the tank that allows for the benders to use those abilities, the tank itself does nothing. The armor should be stone also.

Otherwise, it all looks good.

Xiagu
2007-12-14, 08:39 PM
Well, at least for me its finals week so I'm studying a lot and soon will be going home where I won't have a good internet connection. That and the fact that we don't have any one leading and pushing the threads are probably the reasons for the dead threads.
It's okay, I was just a little disconcerted about seeing the inflow of work suddenly stop.


I'd say 40ft for the length.
I'll change it, and we'll see if anyone disagrees.


The damage for the attacks all look fine except I'd double the slam damage (at least increase the dice rolled).
I made it that low just so that it wouldn't instantly kill most characters. Average of 6d6+10 is 26, average of double dice (12d6) is 52. I'll go with 12d6+10.


I'd lower the Earthbending DCs some and all the abilities should be Ex since its the construction of the tank that allows for the benders to use those abilities, the tank itself does nothing.
The earthbending DCs are high enough that an optimised level 9-10 earthbender would be capable of doing them by taking 10. I assumed that you would need to be level 9-10 to be powerful enough to control it, and we already agreed that benders routinely reach high levels in this setting. So I'd like to get more input before I change this. Also, while the tank itself does nothing, the earthbenders are the ones moving it. I might have missed this, but does bending function in an antimagic field? Because that's what this really hinges on, whether earthbenders can earthbend or not without magic. (This doesn't really matter for the setting, but if this stuff was ever used elsewhere, it would matter.)


The armor should be stone also.
Alright, I'll change it to stone and see if anyone else disagrees. ...except I still don't know how much stone weights per 10'x10'x1" section. All I know is that it's roughly 3 times denser than your average creature. If anyone knows how much stone weighs (and part of the problem is that we don't know what kind of rock it is), please speak up.


Otherwise, it all looks good.
Yay! I'm useful! :smallbiggrin:

FlyMolo
2007-12-14, 08:40 PM
This is amazing. truly awesome. Well done.

I think the bending DCs for this tank thing need closer looking at. The earliest time a bender can make a DC 32 check is when? I forget. But I'll write up cooperative bending rules just in case they're needed. I was going to just comment on their necessity, but I ended up writing them. Let me know what you guys think.

The assisting bender makes a check. If they make the base DC for the seed they are trying to assist with, they add half their check to the communal check. If they do not make the DC, they add half their check minus the difference between the check and the DC. If the bending form is modified in any way by a wisdom modifier, use the highest one. Assisting benders cannot lower the resulting communal check.

So a thousand newbie waterbenders attempting a really hard task couldn't do something a more experienced bender could do. I feel this fits well with scaling DCs inherent in the system. Examples(I'm just seeing how well this works.):

1 first level waterbender can throw 7 ice shards at first level, at DC 20. Two first level waterbenders can make a check of 31, throwing 9 shards as a communal effort. Not as good as two benders working separately, but keep in mind this is only two. 3 benders can achieve a check of 42. Which deals, what 16d4 damage? Worse than benders working independently, still. Hmm.

Example Two: One bender can make DC 30 checks. Two weaker benders can make DC 20 checks. They all cooperate on a golem. How big can it be? Golem is DC 15, so they all make their checks. The total communal check is 30+10+10=50. They have enough bending control between them to construct and control a colossal sized golem with enough check left over to upgrade its strength and dex.

The DC for assisting a form is the base DC for the seed, if just one is used. If more than one is used, make the DC the DC before improvements such as extra shards or extra DR. Concentration checks made to maintain water or bend defensively are made against this DC also.

What do you lot think?

Xiagu
2007-12-14, 08:53 PM
This is amazing. truly awesome. Well done.

I think the bending DCs for this tank thing need closer looking at. The earliest time a bender can make a DC 32 check is when? I forget. *snip*

Well, first: I made the DCs so high because I don't feel comfortable giving a low-level character the ability to do 12d6+10 or 10d10+20 points of damage, y'know? Not to mention that they have 9/10ths cover, too. (Ooops, I should add that.) Currently, they are take-10-able by level 9 or 10 (depending on Wis).

(Other stuff moved to bending thread)

Lord Tataraus
2007-12-14, 09:14 PM
In light of the communal bending ability I suggest a way to emulate a seed via a Knowledge (Bending) check (to know how to do it) and a penalty to the bending DC (-15?). This would allow communal bending to preform seeds that no individual in the group could.

Uthug
2007-12-17, 06:55 AM
Regarding the tank; I think that those who were moving the tank had to be trained for some amount of time before being able to coordinate their efforts. Another thing, when climbing, do the all the Earthbenders make the check or only one? I don't seem to recall any single Earthbender piloting it, anyway, why would it be the pilot who made the check instead of the crew members bending it?

Another thing, I thought that the crew moved the tank by bending the earth beneath it, possibly by using Move a Rock? I recall there being gaps under the tank which they stood in. If not, couldn't the benders theoretically make the tank fly by bending sections of the tank? Also, the tanks in the show seemed to be made of metal, right? The reason for using a material that normal benders can't bend would probably be for increased defenses, because apparently, in the show, firebending is strong enough to shatter rock that's inches think. Think back to Iroh's redirection of Azula's lighting blast, that really seemed to make a large cavity in the unfortunate rock face. Also, on a smaller scale, Zuko was able to destroy/break the small earth wall that some random Earth Kingdom soldier threw up to defend himself.

Now when I think of a tank made of earth, I think golem. Now it basically seems like a bunch of benders forming themselves into a cuboid and charging ahead, albeit at 10ft per round. Sort of related to this: With a tank made of earth, would there be any seeds needed to create it?

Lord Tataraus
2007-12-17, 12:35 PM
Congratulations to Mephibosheth for winning the Avatar Project Leader position.

It was a close vote, with Mephibosheth just 1 ahead of Guyr Adamantine, good job both of you. And may this project be completed to the satisfaction of all under the leadership of Mephibosheth.

- Lord Tataraus

Xiagu
2007-12-17, 10:00 PM
Woo, go Meph!


Another thing, when climbing, do the all the Earthbenders make the check or only one? I don't seem to recall any single Earthbender piloting it, anyway, why would it be the pilot who made the check instead of the crew members bending it?
Well, firstly, there's only one earthbender piloting the tank simply for ease of running it. We never get to see the inside of the tank whenever it's attacking, so I'm just guessing. You might even say that Teo was piloting one of the tanks...

But I have my reasons! Note that in the Arms and Equipment guide, only the driver makes the check for driving on rough terrain or the like. Not the horses/mules/other dray animals. So I'd like to keep it with one pilot, just for ease of use.


I think that those who were moving the tank had to be trained for some amount of time before being able to coordinate their efforts.
Meh, I dunno. It shouldn't be harder than normal communal bending, at least. Personally, I think that it merely requires a few minutes of practice; coordinating three people's feet shouldn't be too hard.


Also, the tanks in the show seemed to be made of metal, right? The reason for using a material that normal benders can't bend would probably be for increased defenses, because apparently, in the show, firebending is strong enough to shatter rock that's inches think. Think back to Iroh's redirection of Azula's lighting blast, that really seemed to make a large cavity in the unfortunate rock face. Also, on a smaller scale, Zuko was able to destroy/break the small earth wall that some random Earth Kingdom soldier threw up to defend himself.
I repeat that I am completely ambivalent to whatever material the tanks are armored in. I was merely waiting for more input in the meantime. Iron is twice as strong as stone, and 25% harder. (hardness 8 vs. hardness 10) If anyone has a source, or some reasons besides "it looked like stone/iron", I'd be happy to change it.


Another thing, I thought that the crew moved the tank by bending the earth beneath it, possibly by using Move a Rock? I recall there being gaps under the tank which they stood in. If not, couldn't the benders theoretically make the tank fly by bending sections of the tank?
I'm almost 100% sure that they bent stone treads under the tank. (Screenshots aren't up yet, so I can't prove it to you.) The earthbenders pushed the treads backwards, and the treads moved the tank forward. (Kinda like a rowboat. Ish.) Secondly, they can't make it fly because of the "can't lift yourself by pulling on your own belt" argument with Move a Rock. They can, however, lift parts of it up and smash stuff with it.


Now when I think of a tank made of earth, I think golem. Now it basically seems like a bunch of benders forming themselves into a cuboid and charging ahead, albeit at 10ft per round. Sort of related to this: With a tank made of earth, would there be any seeds needed to create it?
Sure! Golem + Armor + multiple people = awesomeness.
Or maybe just Move a Rock. I dunno.

Xiagu
2007-12-21, 04:27 PM
Expendables - It's been suggested before, but items like the Energy-Increasing Tea used by the Earth Kingdom general or water from the Northern Spirit Oasis...this could even include explosives or inventions from the Northern Air Temple refugees.
If you're looking for something to do, stat out the expendables or other things.

Things needing stats:

Expendables:

Smoke grenades from #116: The Deserter
Energy-Increasing Tea from #201: The Avatar State
Spirit water from the Oasis
The bombs made by the refugees in #117: The Northern Air Temple

Vehicles:
War balloons from #117: The Northern Air Temple and #310-311: The Day of Black Sun
Firebender tanks seen in #117: The Northern Air Temple, #120: The Seige of the North Part 2, #202: The Cave of Two Lovers, #212: The Drill, and #310-311: The Day of Black Sun
Submarines, from #310-311: The Day of Black Sun
Rocket launchers, also from #310-311: The Day of Black Sun
Harpoon guns, from.... ...that's right, #310-311: The Day of Black Sun
If you feel like it, the Earthbender Trains in Ba Sing Se
That thing that Azula & co. rode in, from #207: The Chase
The warships, seen in most episodes
The jet skis from #303: The Painted Lady

Creatures:

Kimodo Rhinocerouses, seen in #104: The Warriors of Kyoshi, #107: The Spirit World (Winter Solstice, Part 1), #120: The Seige of the North, Part 2, #205: Avatar Day, #211: The Desert, #301: The Awakening, and #310-311: The Day of Black Sun Oops, it was done already :smallredface:
Messenger hawks, seen in #107: The Spirit World (Winter Solstice, Part 1), #113: The Blue Spirit, #305: The Beach, and #307: The Runaway
...all those other things in the Creature thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63909)

Mephibosheth
2007-12-23, 12:42 PM
Just a note to inform everyone that I've started a new organizational thread. Check it out! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67493)