What optimized character would you play if you were playing with new players?

[Rfkannen]

Like a lot of you, I really enjoy playing characters that are good at what they do. However, it is always a bad feeling when your playing in a group and your characters winds up overshadowing other characters. That feeling is doubled when your playing with a group of new players, you want to help them feel cool and give them a good impression of the game!

So if you were playing with a group of new players, or just players who don't care at all about optimization, and you wanted to play a character that was optimized, what would you play?

[Remover of Obst]

... help them feel cool and give them a good impression of the game!

So if you were playing with a group of new players, or just players who don't care at all about optimization, and you wanted to play a character that was optimized, what would you play?

Healer/Buffer

New or unoptimized players will love receiving Bless, Haste, etc. and a well placed heal will be very helpful for new players that unknowingly take risks (like opening a door and running into another room during combat that is going sideways).

Hard to one-shot a boss or one-spell another challenge which tends to turn new players green.

[Gtdead]

It's a difficult question to answer. If you try to do too much to compensate for their lack of experience, you will end up with either something absurd (i.e. animate dead shenanigans), or something that is subpar (stretching out your character too thin).

One think I know all too well is that new players don't have the fear of death yet. They think it's perfectly fine to attack with their rapier as a drow sorcerer. Also they don't understand mechanics like advantage all that well, so it's fairly uncommon to see them going prone or using the dodge action.

This pretty much forces me to play frontliners. Paladins and Clerics are good to this end although you need to stress out the fact that these are not healers, and to not expect any form of healing at all unless they are one step before dying. If you don't, then you are throwing fuel into the fire.

On the other hand, playing arcane casters is a double edged sword. You need to be very selfish because they don't know how to protect you (and the DM is more likely to go after you than punish the mistakes of the newbies), but it's a good learning experience for them because they feel they have to protect you, while if you are playing a frontliner, they tend to think that you play some immortal build and don't care too much about positioning and how you are influencing the fight and making enemies attack you instead of them.

I think Sorcadin (Paladin 2/Sorcerer X) is the best build to bring in a game with newbies, followed closely by Cleric.

[GeoffWatson]

Whatever the group was missing, or a buffer if there's no glaring omission.

[Sorinth]

Depends on what the others were playing, but I find Wolf Totem Barbarian is generally great if the new players have tended towards melee . You both soak up a lot of damage/attacks by going reckless and give your allies advantage which helps make them feel strong.

But you also can't go wrong with Bard, everybody loves a little inspiration.

[Keravath]

Life cleric .. healing for newbies, spirit guardians and spiritual weapon for optimization.

[prototype00]

Healer/Buffer as said, but I would probably play either Twilight Cleric or Peace Cleric to really ramp up the optimization.

[Sherlockpwns]

I like the idea of "filling with purpose"

Get info on what they plan on playing and, if they know at all, what they think they'll be doing. Let's say for instance you've got someone who is saying 'I want to be a rogue and sneak around and stab things'

Great, so, you can make a battlemaster that gives them extra sneak-attacks as reactions (or maybe a Bard with some nice Whisper maybe a Druid that can drop a pass without trace on them. Find out what everyone is doing and try to build an optimal character around making THEM shine. I guess that is kind of implied by "healer/buffer" but I think you can go a step further if you are experienced enough to really plan a strategy that makes use of your party in an optimal way and opens up those strategies and opportunities to the new players.

And of course at the end of the day everyone loves HP, so anything that grants HP (not just heals, but Inspiring Leader or other feats/abilities) is going to be welcome and give your party some extra forgiveness when things go tits up.

[KorvinStarmast]

Life cleric.
or
Lore bard.

Both can be put together to be a good support character.

[Pex]

I would play whatever I felt like playing and help the new players create the character they want if asked. The only unsolicited advice I'd give them is if I see they have a CO score less than 14 to make it 14. I might keep quiet if it's 12 or 13, but I will speak up for anything lower.

I'm a zealot of the adventurer's tax of 14 CO. Too often have I experienced fellow PCs with no CO, and it hurts the party. They drop too fast, losing their actions and needing to spend more healing resources on them. They get paranoid when close to 0 hit points because it happens so fast and go into retreat mode losing their actions anyway as they do whatever it takes to stay alive even if it means running away. I don't object to a player taking one turn's actions of defensive play. It's a problem when that's all they do the rest of the combat*. I can't make someone raise their CO, but I still say something then leave it at that. I know it's their character, but it makes the whole party worse. I know it's not fair of me.

When I am asked for help I do not tell them specifically what to do. I offer them several different options of optimizations to convey the character archetype they want and let the player choose for his fun. When someone has 16 16 in two stats he needs and come level 4 he makes them 17 17 I will tell him to instead make one of them 18 and keep the other 16 to get a benefit now then raise the other score the next ASI because 17 17 does absolutely nothing for them.

*I fully support the tactic of a spellcaster casting a Concentration spell the party needs and then all he does is get out of the way of everyone and Dodge if nothing else just to keep that spell up because it is so absolutely crucial.

[Chaos Jackal]

It's a bit difficult to give a straight answer, because what those new players will be using plays an important part.

The easy answer is to play a support-oriented full caster. Bards and clerics are ideal but druids and wizards can work just as well. New players, especially those with little to no RPG background (which is the most likely case of unoptimized players, as 5e is easy enough that anyone with a decent RPG experience will be able to create more than competent characters after a few hours of looking at classes and going through spell lists), tend to place a lot of value on raw DPR, so giving them a boost or doing some battlefield control won't make them feel left out. You're bringing up their numbers, and they're happy to see themselves dishing out those numbers.

However, it might be that your group has a number of casters already, maybe with a damage "focus", who end up doing subpar damage because of their spell choices. They feel weak compared to their martial friends, whose damage baseline is often higher at no optimization, and they see you throwing around webs and walls, turning people into killing machines or saving them from the brink of death, and they feel like they're not contributing there either.

In such a scenario, something like a paladin probably works the best. Solid damage without needing to focus on it, so you can complement your probably not amazing damage dealers, decent survivability alongside a threatening enough presence will help you function as a frontline and having a support focus through higher Charisma, spells like bless and shield of faith as well as feats like Inspiring Leader, plus standard paladin features like Lay on Hands and auras, will help you cover ground in a lot of directions without being too intrusive. The saving throw boost in particular is probably gonna be something they'll love you for and it will never get in anyone's way or step on someone's toes.

The artificer can do a similar job. Loses out in some fields, gains in others, and if you share your infusions the party is gonna be happy and they'll still get to be the ones bringing the pain they've signed up for.

If the group has one of every full caster as well as a paladin and an artificer, well... you might as well play a fighter or something and shoot or stab people. At that stage, you'll probably need the damage rather badly, and the rest of the party is less likely to complain that your damage is too high and more likely to cheer at you killing that monster they thought they'd never have the damage to kill, and your lack of spells and other supporting effects will probably separate you enough from the rest of the group that nobody feels like you're doing their job.

tl;dr In most cases, full caster, do support and control, be subtle about your participation. Alternatively, half-caster, be everyone's best friend. If those get too much in the way of other players, just grab some standard martial build for damage and go to town.

[Kane0]

Yeah most likely a support cleric, druid or bard, maybe something nonstandard like a ranged barbarian, non-hexblade bladelock or TWF ranger.

[Aaedimus]

Order Cleric 1, X Divine Soul Sorcerer:
Aid, Haste, twin heals, every other supporting thing etc etc.
Make them feel strong while controlling the battle.

Other option is building a control focused wizard. You get to fill all the gaps they have, and solve problems they weren't prepared for. You're more experienced so you can use that fir spell prep/usage

[Waazraath]

Whatever the group was missing, or a buffer if there's no glaring omission.

+1 to this.

[Captain Panda]

Twilight cleric. Even if the rest of the team is derpy, they'll love you giving them a constant flow of temporary HP. It's like adding extra padding to the adventure to compensate for a bit of noobiness.

[Yakmala]

Built a character like this for a short campaign with mostly new players.

Variant Human Rogue with Healer Feat. High dexterity and charisma. Thief at level 3 for Fast Hands for bonus action healers kit use. Inspiring Leader at 4 to add 7 temp HP.

He was excellent at helping keep the party alive and could get downed party members back on their feet long after most clerics would be out of spell slots. The temp HP kept low levels from being one-shot by an unexpected crit hit.

[Droodicus]

Twilight cleric. Even if the rest of the team is derpy, they'll love you giving them a constant flow of temporary HP. It's like adding extra padding to the adventure to compensate for a bit of noobiness.

100% this. That's all I came to add.

[Catullus64]

Thief, or perhaps some manner of Druid. To the extent that it's my responsibility as an experienced player to "teach" newer ones, I think it's more important to teach creativity and lateral thinking. Anyone can learn how to focus fire, yo-yo heal, or prioritize concentration effects, but not everyone learns how to keep roleplaying after initiative is rolled.

You don't need highly optimized builds to do this, of course, but these are good setups to do so while also carrying a lot of mechanical heft and teaching some good D&D combat lessons. Thief can do all manner of creative item and environment interactions without having to pay a premium of action economy. Cunning Action helps you model good positioning, and Sneak Attack is basically "Target Prioritization: The Tutorial Feature." Druids, as utility/control casters, can teach a lot of lessons about using your environment and placing your spells for maximum effect. They can also teach you that you don't really need much dedicated in-combat healing, as long as you're johnny-on-the-spot with Healing Word.

[sethdmichaels]

the one thing i'll add here is that if you're buffing other players, pay attention during their turns so that you can remind them to take the d4 to their attacks from Bless or take their extra Haste attack! they'll appreciate the chance for success more than they'll mind the interruption, especially since they'll be moving at a slower pace as they figure the game out.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm a zealot of the adventurer's tax of 14 CO. Nicely put. I won't leave home without a 12-14 Con.
...casting a Concentration spell the party needs and then all he does is get out of the way of everyone and Dodge Done that on a few occasions. :smallsmile: Most recently with Slow spell.

Variant Human Rogue with Healer Feat. High dexterity and charisma. Thief at level 3 for Fast Hands for bonus action healers kit use. Inspiring Leader at 4 to add 7 temp HP.

He was excellent at helping keep the party alive and could get downed party members back on their feet long after most clerics would be out of spell slots. The temp HP kept low levels from being one-shot by an unexpected crit hit. Ingenious. I'm stealing this idea. :smallsmile:

Thief, or perhaps some manner of Druid...I think it's more important to teach creativity and lateral thinking. *claps hands* Mentoring is a nice approach.

[da newt]

Knee jerk reaction - Twilight Cleric

With a bit more time / thought - see what the team needs and try to fill that niche while also RPing a bit of old guy coaching and creative problem solving. Killing everything is one option, but not the only one.

[nickl_2000]

Satyr Lore Bard who focuses on Buffs. Name him Phil.

Seriously though, Lore Bards are great for this sort of thing. Cutting Words keeps allies alive, Bardic Inspiration boosts allies effectiveness, you get lots of control and buff spells.

And once you get to level 6 you can choose Magic Secrets that will help the party once it has "matured" some.

[Bobthewizard]

Tailor this to the party. Don't be a twilight cleric if someone else made a cleric (if they did, make sure you talk to them about healing in 5e). Don't be a bard if someone else is. So my order would be:

1. Twilight cleric. That THP every round is amazing
2. Lore bard is very versatile
3. Shepherd druid using Tasha's summon spells. Big nerf from conjure animals but the bear totem is still great THP.
(Shepherd druid with conjure animals overshadows everything else, so don't do that to them)
4. Controller wizard - I like enchanter for this, but chronurgy and divination are great.
5. Artillerist Artificer handing out magic items and utilizing protector for THP every round
6. Paladin if they need melee
7. Rogue, warlock, or ranger for consistent but not overpowering damage

The thief with healer feat and anyone with inspiring leader are also great ideas.

[Witty Username]

Life cleric/Ranger or life cleric/druid. Good healing, some nice support abilities maybe some skills like survival that they wouldn't immediately think of.

[XmonkTad]

Artificer. A bunch of them won't know how much better their character can be with magic utility items. Having access to those items gives them a big boost, and you can teach them about one magic item at a time. Also helps shore up the weaknesses of the party. Bonus points if you grab the common item magic infusion and use it on spell tattoo to give them 1 spell a day at a time. They'll look for ways to press that button.

[Chad.e.clark]

I have a question: what levels of play and adventures are we talking? One shots? Full campaigns? Published campaigns or homebrew worlds? And when do we think that players have matured from the newbies category?

When I think of playing with a group a new players, I gravitate towards primary support builds. An eqsy way to do that is Hexblade 1( for armor and shield and Shield) / Bard x. If the campaign isn't going to last long, Glamour Bard. I think Glamour Bards mass Temp HP + reaction disengage on a bonus action can solve more problems than a Cutting Word in Tier 1 and early Tier 2. Cutting Word is one attack against one ally as a reaction. Glamour Bard is likely 15 Temp HP by end of Tier 1 and 32 Temp HP by early orid Tier 2. Plus, since it is not a spell, you can still cast a leveled spell with your Action. Reposition allies out of the AoE of Hypnotic Pattern if things qre too messy on the battlefield.

[Khrysaes]

I would play an Star Druid/Arcane Cleric or Celestial Tomelock.

[Foxydono]

Reviser ranger (UA) gloom stalker ranger. Outshine them in stealth, dps, initiative and let them soak all the damage while you laugh in the shadow.

[1Pirate]

There are some good ideas already, however I'll drop one more possibility that hasn't been mentioned: Grave Cleric.

To some degree it got overshadowed by Twilight, but with new players, it still has a slightly more subtle touch while being quite good. You can afford for the PCs to be a little more reckless since you max heal a downed PC and with spare the dying ranged, you can rescue two PCs that have dropped several distances apart. Path to the Grave is really good for making a player feel godly without you leaving any fingerprints.

[yellowrocket]

I was pleasantly surprised to see druid mentioned.

I love the different directions you can take it. Whether you shape change or summon, range or Frontline, you can switch focus easily.

Good berry, pass without a trace, vine whip, and entangle all let you do your thing what ever your thing is.

And you have some lore or could make up your own to model role-playing as others have said as well.

[Eldariel]

Wizard is a very decent alternative: eschew damage and minionmancy entirely outside maybe a damage cantrip with utility like Chill Touch or Ray of Frost, and go deep on crowd control and buffing. You can disable enemies, make your rogues invisible, Haste your fighters, etc. and make your allies more or less awesome while enabling others to solve encounters both combat and non-combat (many cantrips and such can be quite facilitatory out of combat too).

[False God]

Probably a druid or a cleric. They can fill a lot of roles, they have a variety of abilities and spells, and often cover skills that new players may not necessarily value like Religion, Nature, or Survival. It's a class I can typically sit back and know what I'm doing...and pull out the big guns when the party needs help.

[Spiritchaser]

I’d pick a controller/buffer or controller/debuffer of some type. The party can succeed without you stealing their glory.

I would, however, prefer to pick something on my to-do list so I’d likely try and make a controller out of aberrant mind or clockwork soul.

I’d also really like to try the fear power on the undead warlock, but I think I’d especially like to mix it with conquest Paladin, actually I think it would end up mostly conquest Paladin. Unfortunately that would really come online later and I’m not actually sure that the stat mix would work well enough, so unless I could come up with a really good build plan it’s probably not best for a new group.

[jaappleton]

Play a buffer / controller.

Boost your allies and lock down enemies to help your fellow players shine. Plus, by being a controller, it shows them you can be a very effective character while not focusing on damage.

[neonchameleon]

Celestial Warlock with the Criminal background and greenflame blade cantrip. I'm primarily a controller/buffer but can also double as a thief and fight in melee.

[Psyren]

Alchemist Artificer!

- Control and healing spells (so they can shine)
- Healing/buffing elixirs (so they can shine)
- Magic items (so they can shine)
- Flash of Genius (so they can shine)
- I can handle the traps and scouting as a paranoid adventurer ("I check the ceiling")
- Covers Int stuff so they can play the easier/more popular classes
- Weaker than the other subclasses, so I won't be doing the most damage or otherwise stealing the spotlight
- Plays well in any group regardless of team comp

[Hael]

Probably a life shepherd (lifecleric1, shepherd X). You have overpowered healing. You can easily carry (both damage and tanking) with your summons.

You can also choose to back off and provide adequate buffs and you have great battlefield control to enable the new players.

You also basically are cheating in the exploration pillar, and can provide great scouting with familiars and the usual druid rituals. Guidance to help the skill side.