The Wandering Inn

[halfeye]

I''m conflicted about this, it's a mess and I can't believe it's ever going to be resolved, but it's not yet severely internally inconsistent, the parts of the story that are told are well told, and it may well be the longest story told in the English language so far.

I'm following it, but if you are thinking of starting it, it is very long already, and it ought to take as long again to wrap up all the plot points that already exist, but there are almost certainly going to be new plot points.

https://wanderinginn.com/

[Rynjin]

I really don't see what's a mess about it, unless you're one of those people who's been whining in the comments on every chapter about there not being enough Erin these days.

[halfeye]

I really don't see what's a mess about it, unless you're one of those people who's been whining in the comments on every chapter about there not being enough Erin these days.

I am not one of them, though I do agree with them.

Having the main protagonist "dead but coming back, maybe real soon now" is an ongoing rolling cliffhanger and a strange literary device.

What I mean by a mess is that it's a tree that keeps growing branches, and the branches keep branching into other branches. When a story ends, all the branches need to merge back together, there are so many here that merging them all in satisfying ways will take a lot of time. Maybe there will have to be a dozen sequels all from different points of view.

[Gnoman]

My issue with book 8 is that it feels oddly stasisy.


Everything's revolving around bringing Erin back, and seems like every other chapter has somebody spend a fair bit of time moping about Erin. I can understand why the setup leads to that, but it locks the narrative in a way that simply killing her off (even if she could potentially be Resurrected later) wouldn't have done.

[Rynjin]

Except it's driven a lot of character progression, which is what the series is about. TWI has never been a "plot" series, it's a character arc series.

Ksmvr's development, as an example, probably would have never happened without Erin's "death".

[Gnoman]

It still feels too much wrapped around her.


Compare what Rabbiteater's been doing - even though he knows about it, he's getting his growth without her.

[Sapphire Guard]

Didn't get any further since last time this came up, still a couple of chapters into book 2. Was a lot to like and a lot to dislike.

[Rynjin]

Didn't get any further since last time this came up, still a couple of chapters into book 2. Was a lot to like and a lot to dislike.

The general consensus on when the story gets "great" is during the Esthelm stuff (officially now named "Flowers of Esthelm" for the audiobooks).

[Eurus]

I've been current and keeping up with it for a while now, I think that it's mostly enjoyable? My general warning is that, because it jumps around to so many different characters and perspectives and plots, there are likely going to be some that you just don't like who seem to get way too much screen time. And there are likely going to be some arcs that you really do like that get de-focused for a few dozen chapters at a time. The focus drifts back and forth a lot, is what I'm saying.

If you can go with the flow, I think it's generally enjoyable.

[J-H]

I enjoy it, and the characters are strong enough that I have a pretty good sense of who and where everyone is, even when we cut away from a viewpoint character for like 6 months or a year (looking at you Joker... no, don't look back at me, I'm not here, there is no audience, WHY ARE YOU SMILING LIKE THAT).

It definitely has the Wheel of Time problem of "Oh, and I'm adding this, and that, and this" and as a result, time passes more slowly and the plot becomes more and more unfocused. There are a lot of high-powered plot threads out there.

the go_s are alive
Resurrection, and also the afterlife being eaten.
King of Destruction, continental war, saving Tiqr, etc., yada yada
Death of Magic/Death of Chains/Demons of Rhir whatever. They're probably the highest-powered enemies on the planet and they are a sideshow.
Gnoll magic-stealing, resolving Mrsha's status, open war with the gnolls.
Wyrm courting...or whatever it was that Ryoka was used as a messenger for. Oh, and there's also a war on that continent.
Fraerlings under attack.
Something something Circle of Thorns blood magic something something.
Teriarch has forgotten himself.
Goblins and not-Goblin Goblins and Kings and Treasure.
Az'Kerash the necromancer is still out there building an army.


I'd like to see a few of these resolved sometime soon-ish.

On the other hand, isn't that how soap operas work? There's a big cast of characters, time passes slowly, and there are always new twists and complexities to keep them running for decades of character arcs?

I just hope the story doesn't build and build until the writer is overloaded and quits. It's a lot of fun and has generated more than a few D&D ideas that I've used in my games, including Eater Goats. My players ran from those without even getting close.

[halfeye]

That is a partial list.

I think I could maybe double it. That there are so many plot threads really is the main problem with the story as a story.

[Rynjin]

Well, again, I think thinking of it as a single story is a mistake. It's a living world.

Regardless, things often come together in unexpected but in hindsight logical ways. The recent chapter with Niers proves that much.

[halfeye]

Oi! Peelee!

But seriously folks, I quite liked this one.

[Dragonus45]

Oi! Peelee!

But seriously folks, I quite liked this one.

Oh yea Tuesdays chapter was a riot and then some. A great deal of I told you so's have been spoken about the bit with Ryoka and the Thirsting Knights as well.

[halfeye]

That almost made it to "interesting".

[Dragonus45]

The Christmas chapter? Went way past interesting into fascinating cluster****. I got some serious nostalgia for old school chat rooms during this one. But it's all coming together now in the best way. I'm hyped.

[J-H]

I finally binged again and caught up (I tend to follow serials that way). That was certainly something else. Very very entertaining. Welcome to the interwebz!

The appearance of Izrael quoting a particular very recognizable Earth text in the previous chapter was also a surprise. It seems that the system follows the 3e+ "cleric of ideals" or "believe and it happens" mode rather than requiring a ___ to grant spells as we have no indication of any theological cross-world links.

Whatever caused the massive stackwipe of the ___ is going to have to get explained at some point. I suspect global memory modification or memetic warfare given what the mithril coin did to the dwarven blacksmith when he examined it, but it's obviously breaking down in Eldavin/Teriarch.

What is Actelios supposed to be? The description reminded me of a Beholder more than anything else, but from what I recall, an earther was told it's not an "Old One" or something like that. I can't think of anything else big with a bunch of eyestalks.
It seems Old Ones are at the bottom of the sea and the stuff over the edge of the world is something more foreign than what in D&D would be the Far Realms creatures? Maybe more of a Eberron Chaos/madness theme?

[Dragonus45]

I finally binged again and caught up (I tend to follow serials that way). That was certainly something else. Very very entertaining. Welcome to the interwebz!

Congratz, if you have any interest Gravesong, the new book, has the Patron only version up on the patreon now as well!


The appearance of Izrael quoting a particular very recognizable Earth text in the previous chapter was also a surprise. It seems that the system follows the 3e+ "cleric of ideals" or "believe and it happens" mode rather than requiring a ___ to grant spells as we have no indication of any theological cross-world links.
Yea it seems like similar to how the ___ didn't need direct worship so much as a general increase in people believing they were still alive to function the class system is more then willing to fill in the blanks for a cleric of anything so long as they are actually doing cleric things. Pawn more then anything really shows this off but the follow up on Prophet after so long is great to see. Normally I would be worried about all the ways this could go wrong but given Roshal exists and they don't like Roshal I'll take them. Some old school philosophy for how to deal with cities like that one could be more then welcome to me.


Whatever caused the massive stackwipe of the ___ is going to have to get explained at some point. I suspect global memory modification or memetic warfare given what the mithril coin did to the dwarven blacksmith when he examined it, but it's obviously breaking down in Eldavin/Teriarch.


Teri has actually sworn by the bearded ones name and also is in the know about what is up with goblins and may have been born so far in the past he may be close to as old as whatever the big event was so it's a real possibility he always knew.



What is Actelios supposed to be? The description reminded me of a Beholder more than anything else, but from what I recall, an earther was told it's not an "Old One" or something like that. I can't think of anything else big with a bunch of eyestalks.
It seems Old Ones are at the bottom of the sea and the stuff over the edge of the world is something more foreign than what in D&D would be the Far Realms creatures? Maybe more of a Eberron Chaos/madness theme?

It is a Cthulu, now exactly what that means is loose and hard to define but Trey's reaction is clear it is close enough to what we think of when the word is used that he could recognize the skull. Old one is a really specific bit of terminology in the setting that isn't a clear as I figure it should be though. It's was mentioned before that it was a catchall term for a bunch of things potentially but that recent chapter mentions something about "those that survive in the deeps" and I think it was referring to the Those That Should Not Be climbing up out of the Last Tide and the sentence was just structured poorly. Far Realms creatures seems like a good comparison for what is going on in that void though, which is apparently not the void of space since Gnomes and Dragons have traveled there and been fine.

[halfeye]

What is Actelios supposed to be? The description reminded me of a Beholder more than anything else, but from what I recall, an earther was told it's not an "Old One" or something like that. I can't think of anything else big with a bunch of eyestalks.

As I recall it has five eyes, the only thing I remember from Earth with five eyes was something small from the Burgess Shale.

Ah, Wikipedia has it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opabinia

So, it might be one of them, hugely magnified.

[J-H]

That's far too mundane and un-twisted to fit, sorry.

[halfeye]

That's far too mundane and un-twisted to fit, sorry.
It's from earth and it has five eyes. I'm willing to listen to any other suggestions that fit those qualifications, but I don't know of any. Spiders have eight eyes, horseshoe crabs have nine, scorpions have six, eight, ten or twelve, so there might well be something.

[InvisibleBison]

It's from earth and it has five eyes. I'm willing to listen to any other suggestions that fit those qualifications, but I don't know of any. Spiders have eight eyes, horseshoe crabs have nine, scorpions have six, eight, ten or twelve, so there might well be something.

Why is "from Earth" one of the qualifications?

[halfeye]

Why is "from Earth" one of the qualifications?
I'm pretty sure Trey recognised it as being from Earth without saying what it was, that was a long time ago though, so I don't plan to reread the whole thing to find it.

[InvisibleBison]

I'm pretty sure Trey recognised it as being from Earth without saying what it was, that was a long time ago though, so I don't plan to reread the whole thing to find it.

As I recall, he recognized it as being something from the Cthulhu mythos. But even if I'm misremembering and he thought it looked like some ordinary Earth creature, that doesn't mean it literally was such a creature.

[halfeye]

I wanted to read about Amerys being freed, not how she might be next time we come back to her, which could be months from now in real life.

[InvisibleBison]

I wanted to read about Amerys being freed, not how she might be next time we come back to her, which could be months from now in real life.

I was also looking forward to seeing what happened with her escape, but I found the twist ending to be very satisfying. Also, I think it's quite likely that the next chapter will be a continuation of Trey's adventures.

[Rynjin]

I wanted to read about Amerys being freed, not how she might be next time we come back to her, which could be months from now in real life.

Next chapter is also marked as "K". As the author's notes mention, this is the side story that was voted on by Patrons, which means it will be taken to its conclusion before moving on.

[Dragonus45]

I wanted to read about Amerys being freed, not how she might be next time we come back to her, which could be months from now in real life.

That Arc ends this saturday though? So more a few days then a month.

[halfeye]

That Arc ends this saturday though? So more a few days then a month.
I dunno what will happen next, but there seems to be a habit of jumping around from story to story. I am kind of unclear what the schedule is for updates. it seems to be two a week for three weeks then a week or more off, but I haven't noticed if there are particular days of the week on which the bi-weekly pages appear.

There was a time when I thought that the letters denoted a particular character, but 'k' isn't clearly connected to Trey, Troy, Casus, Amerys or Gazi, so I'm not clear that the same letter recurring will mean the same arc continuing and if it doesn't then a month seems optimistic for its next appearance.

[Rynjin]

K is "King of Destruction", and all the characters surrounding him. The letters used to denote a specific character ("K" was ALWAYS Flos' specific perspective), but as the scope of the story grew, they grew to encompass all the characters associated with a specific plotline.

K is now all of Flos' vassals and plots, D (for Doctor) is the entire United Nations Company rather than just Geneva, E (for Emperor) is everything going on in Riverfarm and the surroundings instead of just Laken, etc.

Some of the new ones have gotten muddied (eg. T for Teriarch is ALSO also Trey's perspective much of the time), but the old ones from back when the system started are consistent.

It's why I typically skip a few updates and wait for the backlog to build sometimes. I can't stand Flos and his cronies, so I bank K chapters until I can just binge through to more good content most of the time.

[halfeye]

K is "King of Destruction", and all the characters surrounding him. The letters used to denote a specific character ("K" was ALWAYS Flos' specific perspective), but as the scope of the story grew, they grew to encompass all the characters associated with a specific plotline.

K is now all of Flos' vassals and plots, D (for Doctor) is the entire United Nations Company rather than just Geneva, E (for Emperor) is everything going on in Riverfarm and the surroundings instead of just Laken, etc.

Some of the new ones have gotten muddied (eg. T for Teriarch is ALSO also Trey's perspective much of the time), but the old ones from back when the system started are consistent.

It's why I typically skip a few updates and wait for the backlog to build sometimes. I can't stand Flos and his cronies, so I bank K chapters until I can just binge through to more good content most of the time.

Thanks for that clarification. So, by that, another k could be Flos himself, Teres, Mars (probably not, she doesn't usually have a POV), another character in Flos's enourage or a return to Amerys situation.

[Dragonus45]

Thanks for that clarification. So, by that, another k could be Flos himself, Teres, Mars (probably not, she doesn't usually have a POV), another character in Flos's enourage or a return to Amerys situation.

This is almost certainly going to be an ending to the Save Amerys plot. No idea if they succeed or not but this is the finale of it for sure.

[halfeye]

This is almost certainly going to be an ending to the Save Amerys plot. No idea if they succeed or not but this is the finale of it for sure.
Nope, you were right that it continues, but it didn't end this time.

[Dragonus45]

Nope, you were right that it continues, but it didn't end this time.

Yea, pirate was explicitly up front about this being the end of that arc but I'm never certain who around here is also on the discord/patreon or who hangs out in the discussion/podcast chat server.

[Tvtyrant]

I started this series a few weeks ago, I am on book 5 chapter 30 now. So far my favorite faction are the ZergAnts, least are probably Laken and Ryoka. Laken is essentially just Flos but from Earth so far, and Ryoka is an informed genius who is a complete moron. It does keep her out of Mary Sue status, with her being a genius and unbeatable athlete, but my lord does she make persistently dumb choices.

[Dragonus45]

I started this series a few weeks ago, I am on book 5 chapter 30 now. So far my favorite faction are the ZergAnts, least are probably Laken and Ryoka. Laken is essentially just Flos but from Earth so far, and Ryoka is an informed genius who is a complete moron. It does keep her out of Mary Sue status, with her being a genius and unbeatable athlete, but my lord does she make persistently dumb choices.

Hey! Nice to have you join us. The We Hate Ryoka club meet's on Tuesdays but is currently on hold as she did eventually start taking levels in [Person] we promise. Laken is uhhhhhhhhhhhh more complicated. Anyways you should check out the official discord (https://discord.gg/sy9sSpXS)it's more active for sure and we also have a new fan run podcast (https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/dragonus45)that's is talking about the series from Book 1 that you can check out on your preferred podcast medium.

[Tvtyrant]

Hey! Nice to have you join us. The We Hate Ryoka club meet's on Tuesdays but is currently on hold as she did eventually start taking levels in [Person] we promise. Laken is uhhhhhhhhhhhh more complicated. Anyways you should check out the official discord (https://discord.gg/sy9sSpXS)it's more active for sure and we also have a new fan run podcast (https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/dragonus45)that's is talking about the series from Book 1 that you can check out on your preferred podcast medium.

This feels like a good club and I am happy to be part of it.

That might be my favorite "what the heck Ryoka" scene of the whole series so far. Ryoka has separate rants about not wanting to enable white colonizers or modernize warfare, so she helps Laken, a self-proclaimed white emperor from Earth, build siege weapons he immediately starts selling to nobles. He then mustard gasses Rags as his first non-self defense act of war. Way to go Ryoka.

[Dragonus45]

This feels like a good club and I am happy to be part of it.

That might be my favorite "what the heck Ryoka" scene of the whole series so far. Ryoka has separate rants about not wanting to enable white colonizers or modernize warfare, so she helps Laken, a self-proclaimed white emperor from Earth, build siege weapons he immediately starts selling to nobles. He then mustard gasses Rags as his first non-self defense act of war. Way to go Ryoka.

Laken's BS at least makes sense in context. His only interaction with goblins had been when they tried to slaughter him and everyone he knew and only really had what other people had told him to go on that they were monsters like any more. Given all that context I at least can kind of understand what he had going on there. Also in many ways the area he is taking over is so out of the way that it's barely even ruled or acknowledged by anyone anyone and his presence is doing a ton to help people out. Ryoka though, she really honestly thought that because someone else had trebuchets that that meant they were a perfectly normal known technology in the setting. The sheer unadulterated arrogance of her on multiple levels here was staggering. You go the rest of this book without her though and when the story does pick her back up she is more tolerable then before for me at last.

[Tvtyrant]

Laken's BS at least makes sense in context. His only interaction with goblins had been when they tried to slaughter him and everyone he knew and only really had what other people had told him to go on that they were monsters like any more. Given all that context I at least can kind of understand what he had going on there. Also in many ways the area he is taking over is so out of the way that it's barely even ruled or acknowledged by anyone anyone and his presence is doing a ton to help people out. Ryoka though, she really honestly thought that because someone else had trebuchets that that meant they were a perfectly normal known technology in the setting. The sheer unadulterated arrogance of her on multiple levels here was staggering. You go the rest of this book without her though and when the story does pick her back up she is more tolerable then before for me at last.

Ryoka gets better and then the author abandons her development several times, so I'm not surprised. I could do without her forever though honestly.

[Rynjin]

Ryoka definitely gets better over time. Der Fuhrer remains one of my least favorite characters in the series, just behind Flos and all of his lackeys.

When 8.64K is out for everyone else I'll gripe more about that last bit.

[Dragonus45]

Ryoka gets better and then the author abandons her development several times, so I'm not surprised. I could do without her forever though honestly.

So Ryoka's development never gets abandoned, it's more an issue of her struggling to put what she knows she needs to do to be better into practice when she clearly has unspecified mental illness.

[Eurus]

In the abstract, I like that Ryoka's character development isn't quick and easy. Understanding things like "I have an anger problem" and "I push people away so hard that it hurts both me and them" doesn't translate to instantly being able to change those things.

...That being said, I do find her tedious to read about sometimes.

It's funny, in a series that started out subverting Isekai litRPG tropes, Laken plays a lot of them more straight? Overpowered class, technology shortcuts, hot half human girlfriend...

I think of him as the Classic Power Fantasy Isekai protagonist, where Erin is the Domestic Fantasy Isekai Protagonist and Ryoka is obviously the Supernatural Harem Isekai Protagonist. :smallamused:

[Dragonus45]

In the abstract, I like that Ryoka's character development isn't quick and easy. Understanding things like "I have an anger problem" and "I push people away so hard that it hurts both me and them" doesn't translate to instantly being able to change those things.

...That being said, I do find her tedious to read about sometimes.

It's funny, in a series that started out subverting Isekai litRPG tropes, Laken plays a lot of them more straight? Overpowered class, technology shortcuts, hot half human girlfriend...

I think of him as the Classic Power Fantasy Isekai protagonist, where Erin is the Domestic Fantasy Isekai Protagonist and Ryoka is obviously the Supernatural Harem Isekai Protagonist. :smallamused:

If we needed to rank who is what Isekai protag...Trey is the classic Isekai protag. Sent to another world and if you squint and tilt your head while looking at everyone he hangs out with he has the classic Isekai Harem setup. Laken is more the modern Isekai like How a Realist Hero Rebuilt the Kingdom which is like a whole sub genre of kingdom management stuff.

I will say that it never stops subverting Isekai though, it just can be somewhat subtle about it at times but ultimately this is Isekai without the power fantasy. Even when characters are winning or doing insane Isekai protagonist things the story never lets them sit on it for long or skip out on all the blowback and tragedy of even cleanest of wins.

[Talieth]

Hey!

I found this while searching for a new audiobook : I am now near the end of book 3 and I quite like the story, but the thing that hooked me in is the narrator : Andrea Parsneau IS awesome.

[halfeye]

Not only for You!

Was that supposed to mean anything?

No I'm not on patreon.

Ah, now she's free. Price may have been a bit high.

[Gnoman]

There's two important things about Laken that make him more sensible.


1. He accidentally made a deal with Tamaroth at some point early in his travels. Selling your soul (even inadvertently) to that being probably has some serious effects.

2. There's a heavy indication that the [Emperor] class is twisting his mind to be more ruthless and imperious. It is one of the ways the author is not-so-subtly indicating that there is something Very Wrong with the class and level system.

[Dragonus45]

Hey!

I found this while searching for a new audiobook : I am now near the end of book 3 and I quite like the story, but the thing that hooked me in is the narrator : Andrea Parsneau IS awesome.

YES she is excellent. We are supposed to have her on as a guest at the podcast sometime soon but she is recording this month and suuuuper busy.


There's two important things about Laken that make him more sensible.


1. He accidentally made a deal with Tamaroth at some point early in his travels. Selling your soul (even inadvertently) to that being probably has some serious effects.

2. There's a heavy indication that the [Emperor] class is twisting his mind to be more ruthless and imperious. It is one of the ways the author is not-so-subtly indicating that there is something Very Wrong with the class and level system.



1. Potentially, I think him simply being human and ****ing up because he doesn't have all the information we have makes more sense for his mistakes.

2. Ehhhh classes really don't work that way. It isn't mind control so much as it is the system rewarding specific behaviors creating perverse incentives.

[halfeye]

I like Dureen (but not her name, horse STIs are not good, though Wikipedia doesn't seem to know it now), and thus Laken.

I'm wondering what is going to happen with Lutz, because something obviously will.

[Rynjin]

I like Dureen (but not her name, horse STIs are not good, though Wikipedia doesn't seem to know it now), and thus Laken.

I dunno, if you like Dureen I could see a strong argument for liking Laken even less. He does not IMO do right by her. He comes off as one of those people who treats his SO like a child he can legally have sex with.

[Dragonus45]

I dunno, if you like Dureen I could see a strong argument for liking Laken even less. He does not IMO do right by her. He comes off as one of those people who treats his SO like a child he can legally have sex with.

I do agree they don't have a super healthy dynamic although I'm not sure I consider that either of their faults, and I've heard a lot of things said about Laken, but dead gods that has to be one of the weirdest I have ever heard thrown his way. Like, damn, that's extreme. I gotta ask you elaborate there?

[halfeye]

I dunno, if you like Dureen I could see a strong argument for liking Laken even less. He does not IMO do right by her. He comes off as one of those people who treats his SO like a child he can legally have sex with.

I have to say that your third sentence makes me really uncomfortable.

I do not feel that Laken is abusive of Dureen, that's subjective to me I suppose.

[Dragonus45]

I have to say that your third sentence makes me really uncomfortable.

I do not feel that Laken is abusive of Dureen, that's subjective to me I suppose.

He really isn't. She has some issues with being too co dependent on him resulting from the way he had to push so hard against the awful racist situation she had been living in and him being sort of the first person to even see her as a person in her life as far as we can tell, but it isn't like he did it on purpose. He himself was a disabled man thrown into a fantasy world with no support structure who got super super lucky to find someone as compassionate and caring as Durene and it looks like a big part of her arc will eventually be asserting herself more and making decisions other then the ones she thinks Laken would want.

[Rynjin]

Abusive? Not overtly. Exceedingly manipulative? Yes. And he infantilizes her while he does it. That is my entire meaning.

Their dynamic is closer to parent and child than boyfriend and girlfriend. She idolizes him, views him as essentially perfect, and does anything he says.

He, on the flip side, seems...fond of her? I guess? In a really distant way. Like a pet, almost. But a really useful one he can point and click to solve problems that require brute force and not much else.

Their whole dynamic is icky.

[Dragonus45]

Abusive? Not overtly. Exceedingly manipulative? Yes. And he infantilizes her while he does it. That is my entire meaning.

Their dynamic is closer to parent and child than boyfriend and girlfriend. She idolizes him, views him as essentially perfect, and does anything he says.

He, on the flip side, seems...fond of her? I guess? In a really distant way. Like a pet, almost. But a really useful one he can point and click to solve problems that require brute force and not much else.

Their whole dynamic is icky.

You are correct in that she idolizes him too much and that that kind of thing is not healthy for a relationships but I'll just say nothing your are saying about his motivations, actions, or feelings is remotely supported by the text.

[halfeye]

You are correct in that she idolizes him too much and that that kind of thing is not healthy for a relationships but I'll just say nothing your are saying about his motivations, actions, or feelings is remotely supported by the text.

Except that Lady (I forget her name) wants to be Laken's wife and will given any chance at all push Dureen aside, but she's a monster herself, and Laken is almost certainly going to reject that pretty hard.

[Rynjin]

You are correct in that she idolizes him too much and that that kind of thing is not healthy for a relationships but I'll just say nothing your are saying about his motivations, actions, or feelings is remotely supported by the text.

I think it is pretty well. I can't think of a single time he's really concerned himself with her feelings. Even when she's clearly distraught, he typically brushes her concerns aside.

He shows the same level of emotion toward her as he shows Frostwing much of the time. Vague fondness and often mild exasperation.

Pirateaba has shown they know how to convey strong emotion, and love particularly, to the reader. That is not conveyed in Laken's chapters. Very few strong emotions of any sort are portrayed in Laken's perspective; it takes a lot to crack his overall aloofness and actually make him feel anything besides anger that his territory is being trespassed on (his most common emotion).

[halfeye]

Did anyone care about Hectval?

[Dragonus45]

Did anyone care about Hectval?

Oh absolutely. It won the vote afterall. It wasn't my vote though. I demand more Rabbit Eater at all times. I had been looking forward to getting these chapters eventually though.

[Eurus]

Hectval, no. Olesm and Pawn, yes. I was really hoping Pawn would have a change of heart and push back against the militarization of the religion once he saw how it was affecting the army, but it seems that is not to be.

At first I thought that we were moving toward a big clash between Erin and the Antinium when she comes back and sees all this, but I have to admit that an army of templars is probably going to be pretty useful for stopping the end of the world. It still seems like it's going too far, and has to end badly at some point...

[Tvtyrant]

Alright I finally caught up.


At this point I think there are profoundly too many characters. When Adeltyr and Gire started becoming perspective characters I groaned. Sure we never get Tom chapters anymore, and multiple sets of characters have disappeared for nameless reasons, but why don't we keep adding in new people who need 10,000 pages.

I am okay with some of them, we needed the Death of Chain's perspective for the Demons. But I could do without adding in Cara, or the math guy.

[halfeye]

Too many characters? yes there are.

On the other hand, maybe we'll never get to the end, would that be terrible? I can't make up my mind whether never getting to the end would be terrible.

[Dragonus45]

Most of the newer characters added in tend to just be there to flesh out some perspectives in different plotlines and I don't think most of them will be sticking around as major characters the way earlier in the story have. Also Cara has her own book series, so don't worry about her as much I would think.

[Tvtyrant]

Too many characters? yes there are.

On the other hand, maybe we'll never get to the end, would that be terrible? I can't make up my mind whether never getting to the end would be terrible.

I don't mind the meandering plot, but having characters like Rags and Relc disappear for real world years and the author clearly forgetting about them (Tom is the biggest of these) is somewhat frustrating.

If there is one plot I want them to get to it's the True Antinium meeting the Painted Antinium. The Painted Antinium clearly need to side with the Gnolls first and become a major power, but having Pawn meet the real Queens is going to be interesting.

[Dragonus45]

I don't mind the meandering plot, but having characters like Rags and Relc disappear for real world years and the author clearly forgetting about them (Tom is the biggest of these) is somewhat frustrating.

If there is one plot I want them to get to it's the True Antinium meeting the Painted Antinium. The Painted Antinium clearly need to side with the Gnolls first and become a major power, but having Pawn meet the real Queens is going to be interesting.

Yea the idea for Rags and Relc to sit out a book and a half or so while other characters move to the fore makes more sense on paper till you remember just how much real world time it takes when you are reading while caught up. I do think both plotlines have had some great payoff for the time spent off screen th

Oh yea the potential of this invasion into Gnoll territory to set off a war with the Antinium, both free hive and not, is juicy. I just want more Antinium forever.

Oh and as a side note if anyone here listens to the audiobooks my podcast, No Killing Goblins, has an interview with the narrator, Andrea Parsneu, that is going up today or tomorrow as soon as my co host finishes editing.

[Tvtyrant]

Yea the idea for Rags and Relc to sit out a book and a half or so while other characters move to the fore makes more sense on paper till you remember just how much real world time it takes when you are reading while caught up. I do think both plotlines have had some great payoff for the time spent off screen th

Oh yea the potential of this invasion into Gnoll territory to set off a war with the Antinium, both free hive and not, is juicy. I just want more Antinium forever.

Oh and as a side note if anyone here listens to the audiobooks my podcast, No Killing Goblins, has an interview with the narrator, Andrea Parsneu, that is going up today or tomorrow as soon as my co host finishes editing.
It paid off really well. Relc especially had one of the best stories of the whole series.

I'm still surprised he hasn't joined the real army, since you know.. Hectval killed Erin and his daughter is in a grudge war.

One reason I like this series is I'm bad at guessing the author's next moves, they veer away from traditional storytelling and also never feels out of the blue. The Death of Chains is literally one of the best moments in any series.

So on that note, my long term prediction that the Free Antinium would end up siding with Liscor against the other queens is clearly not happening. Maybe the Free Queen replaces the Grand Queen, but it seems more likely that they move to being more independent and then rediscover the Unistasis as individuals instead of as Zerg. Bird and Crusader 51 have both done it, but they retained their individuality unlike (presumably) the True Antinium (who are classic Zerganids in how they are described so far.)

[Dragonus45]

It paid off really well. Relc especially had one of the best stories of the whole series.

I'm still surprised he hasn't joined the real army, since you know.. Hectval killed Erin and his daughter is in a grudge war.


He's lost friends and loved ones before, it's just not in him to go back to war like that and he really is blooming into a much better guardsman then he was before as well.



One reason I like this series is I'm bad at guessing the author's next moves, they veer away from traditional storytelling and also never feels out of the blue. The Death of Chains is literally one of the best moments in any series.

I despise the Death of Chains myself, but she did have a great entrance for making me hate her so there is that




So on that note, my long term prediction that the Free Antinium would end up siding with Liscor against the other queens is clearly not happening. Maybe the Free Queen replaces the Grand Queen, but it seems more likely that they move to being more independent and then rediscover the Unistasis as individuals instead of as Zerg. Bird and Crusader 51 have both done it, but they retained their individuality unlike (presumably) the True Antinium (who are classic Zerganids in how they are described so far.)[/SPOILER]
The True Antinium seemed to still have some sense of self and individuality within the network but the exact amount is unclear. I am really interested in how the Twisted Queens plan to give workers the power to just walk away from the Queens and become their own people spins wildly out of control in that whole situation though.

[Tvtyrant]

He's lost friends and loved ones before, it's just not in him to go back to war like that and he really is blooming into a much better guardsman then he was before as well.



I despise the Death of Chains myself, but she did have a great entrance for making me hate her so there is that



The True Antinium seemed to still have some sense of self and individuality within the network but the exact amount is unclear. I am really interested in how the Twisted Queens plan to give workers the power to just walk away from the Queens and become their own people spins wildly out of control in that whole situation though.

Relc is probably the best done character overall. Having to learn that being cheerful and friendly doesn't make him a good person is one of the best moments of writing.

What specifically do you hate about her?

The only ones we have met are the Centenium and the Queens, so it is hard to tell. Klbtch seems to think they were more like a single organism, but as a certain Aberration would say... !!!!!! You Klbtch.

Okay this is a side thing, but Ryoka having major daddy issues is one of the funniest things in the whole series. "I like older, powerful individuals who can throw me around. Usually ones who are bad parents."

[Dragonus45]

Relc is probably the best done character overall. Having to learn that being cheerful and friendly doesn't make him a good person is one of the best moments of writing.

What specifically do you hate about her?

The only ones we have met are the Centenium and the Queens, so it is hard to tell. Klbtch seems to think they were more like a single organism, but as a certain Aberration would say... !!!!!! You Klbtch.

Yea, and it's clear Relc always was someone who was trying to be a good person, but he just didn't get how. I was rereading around the part where the Golden Triangle stuff happened and his reaction to realizing he ****ed up and hurt so many people crushes me.

She's a monster. Pure evil. I hope one day someone plants a few tank rounds directly into her soul and them sets what's left of her in fire.

Crusader 57 is the absolute best part of that whole arc. I do consider Klb to be a less then perfectly reliably narrator for a lot of this as well though since he just naturally has the personality of a rock... that is also a **** father.

[Tvtyrant]

Yea, and it's clear Relc always was someone who was trying to be a good person, but he just didn't get how. I was rereading around the part where the Golden Triangle stuff happened and his reaction to realizing he ****ed up and hurt so many people crushes me.

She's a monster. Pure evil. I hope one day someone plants a few tank rounds directly into her soul and them sets what's left of her in fire.

Crusader 57 is the absolute best part of that whole arc. I do consider Klb to be a less then perfectly reliably narrator for a lot of this as well though since he just naturally has the personality of a rock... that is also a **** father.

Absolutely. The part where he takes his life savings and starts handing it out is one of the most heartbreaking scenes in the series.

Are we talking about the same Demon? Death of Chains is the Genie who saves slaves, Death of Magic is up there with Belvier and Az'Karrash for worst people IMO.

I also love how over the course of the series you see how badly the Antinium abuse the workers and soldiers, and then kill them if they break down. It's like the Doombringer arc but with 1000 times as many people, and 57 is angrier Mrsha. The scene where the priest antinium start getting the warble when confronted with the idea that their suffering isn't natural but caused by others is amazing.

[Rhir] So at this point I'm thinking what is under Rhir is a really big Old One, like Actelioush and the Mother under Liscor but bigger. The 6 god's seem more like D&D gods, and it has flesh warping abilities like Actelioush and Liscor's Mother do. The Antinium being flesh shapers seems very much in line with that rather then the deities.

One of the really interesting side questions brought up by Roshal's Horror Ranks is whether Rashkar are actually Gnolls with horror ranks and aspects like a Flesh Eater. Humans turn into Ghouls from cannibalism, Gnolls turn into werewolves. The Florist lost a lot of her mental abilities and became really monstrous before regaining her mind from kindness.

[Dragonus45]

Are we talking about the same Demon? Death of Chains is the Genie who saves slaves, Death of Magic is up there with Belvier and Az'Karrash for worst people IMO.

[Rhir] So at this point I'm thinking what is under Rhir is a really big Old One, like Actelioush and the Mother under Liscor but bigger. The 6 god's seem more like D&D gods, and it has flesh warping abilities like Actelioush and Liscor's Mother do. The Antinium being flesh shapers seems very much in line with that rather then the deities.

One of the really interesting side questions brought up by Roshal's Horror Ranks is whether Rashkar are actually Gnolls with horror ranks and aspects like a Flesh Eater. Humans turn into Ghouls from cannibalism, Gnolls turn into werewolves. The Florist lost a lot of her mental abilities and became really monstrous before regaining her mind from kindness.

Yea you are correct, I somehow swapped Death of Chains and Death of Magic in my head. Death of Magic is one I despise and eagerly await the death of.

Terri did say that what was down there was not what Ryoka said it was when she called it a sleeping god, so it's way more complicated then we though. But it does react really really strongly to the gods themselves as seem by how it woke up and reacted both times god related shenanigans happened. I don't think it's the same kind of thing as Actelios is though. Or if it is it is something closer to the divine equivalent? Might be an honest to goodness Evil Demon of the classical sort? So much fodder, so many questions.

The Rhaskgar are a bit beyond me. We know they are people, despite how close they tread the line towards being not anymore. But the bit in the recent chapter where one of them just outright states that they have an instinctive desire to just eat Gnolls who they see as food reeks of shenanigans. Could be a System thing but if it were I imagine it would be noticeable. Rhaskgar seem to be similar to vampires in that they are opted out of the system by some method unless they do specific things to get added in like say eating someone or eating someone so I don't think it's that. It might be the natural equivalent of what the horror ranks may have done though. Like take the Florist. There is all sorts of lore involved in the idea that cannibalism can cause a person to become a monster, and I have to wonder how much the system just borrowed from a natural process that it recorded at some point in time when it quantified her Horror Ranks and transformed her. Could there be some magical compulsion or instinct baked into the Rhaskgar going back to when they split off from the Gnolls in the Dragons are *******s times?

[Tvtyrant]

Yea you are correct, I somehow swapped Death of Chains and Death of Magic in my head. Death of Magic is one I despise and eagerly await the death of.

Terri did say that what was down there was not what Ryoka said it was when she called it a sleeping god, so it's way more complicated then we though. But it does react really really strongly to the gods themselves as seem by how it woke up and reacted both times god related shenanigans happened. I don't think it's the same kind of thing as Actelios is though. Or if it is it is something closer to the divine equivalent? Might be an honest to goodness Evil Demon of the classical sort? So much fodder, so many questions.

The Rhaskgar are a bit beyond me. We know they are people, despite how close they tread the line towards being not anymore. But the bit in the recent chapter where one of them just outright states that they have an instinctive desire to just eat Gnolls who they see as food reeks of shenanigans. Could be a System thing but if it were I imagine it would be noticeable. Rhaskgar seem to be similar to vampires in that they are opted out of the system by some method unless they do specific things to get added in like say eating someone or eating someone so I don't think it's that. It might be the natural equivalent of what the horror ranks may have done though. Like take the Florist. There is all sorts of lore involved in the idea that cannibalism can cause a person to become a monster, and I have to wonder how much the system just borrowed from a natural process that it recorded at some point in time when it quantified her Horror Ranks and transformed her. Could there be some magical compulsion or instinct baked into the Rhaskgar going back to when they split off from the Gnolls in the Dragons are *******s times?

One of the most hate worthy characters for sure. Right up there with Belvier and Nohka.

I like to imagine Sleepy (the name used on the discord) is like Prismo. It makes the Gods while it sleeps in its dreams, when it wakes up they will be gone along with possibly the whole leveling system.

[Dragonus45]

One of the most hate worthy characters for sure. Right up there with Belvier and Nohka.

I like to imagine Sleepy (the name used on the discord) is like Prismo. It makes the Gods while it sleeps in its dreams, when it wakes up they will be gone along with possibly the whole leveling system.

I'm fairly active on the discord, although I don't post as much as I used to. That is an interesting idea though. Might be some creature bound to the world to help power the system in some way because we know from something Ivolethe said that that world was breaking a lot of rules and that can't come cheap. Might be why risking even going near it was so dangerous.

[Tvtyrant]

I'm fairly active on the discord, although I don't post as much as I used to. That is an interesting idea though. Might be some creature bound to the world to help power the system in some way because we know from something Ivolethe said that that world was breaking a lot of rules and that can't come cheap. Might be why risking even going near it was so dangerous.

It will be interesting to see what they do with the background system and how it works with the larger universe. Something is deliberately making that world work like a game.

I just joined the Discord, so all the fan terms are new to me. Weird to think I have only been reading this series for two months, feels like years.

[InvisibleBison]

One of the most hate worthy characters for sure. Right up there with Belvier and Nohka.

What has the Death of Magic done that makes her so hate worthy? It's been a while since she last showed up, and I don't really remember the details of her actions. I recall that she murdered the knight who was kidnapping Ryoka and fought against the Blighted Kingdom, but neither of those seem exceptionally odious.

[halfeye]

It will be interesting to see what they do with the background system and how it works with the larger universe. Something is deliberately making that world work like a game.

I just joined the Discord, so all the fan terms are new to me. Weird to think I have only been reading this series for two months, feels like years.

Two Months to get up to date on The Wandering Inn? Are you an exceptionally fast speed reader?


What has the Death of Magic done that makes her so hate worthy? It's been a while since she last showed up, and I don't really remember the details of her actions. I recall that she murdered the knight who was kidnapping Ryoka and fought against the Blighted Kingdom, but neither of those seem exceptionally odious.

I quite like her, I think the problem is that she is exceedingly powerful, and she was introduced from the point of view of the blighted kingdom, which at that point was being implied to be good, though it now turns out to be clearly not good at all.

[Rynjin]

What has the Death of Magic done that makes her so hate worthy? It's been a while since she last showed up, and I don't really remember the details of her actions. I recall that she murdered the knight who was kidnapping Ryoka and fought against the Blighted Kingdom, but neither of those seem exceptionally odious.

You don't find slaughtering tens of thousands and laughing about it, or casual murder to be particularly odious?

[halfeye]

You don't find slaughtering tens of thousands and laughing about it, or casual murder to be particularly odious?

There are armies doing that all over on all sides in all the wars. It looked bad because they were good guys, but they'd been hoodwinked into fighting on the wrong side. Laughing may be one aspect of PTSD. I'm not saying she's good, but she seems to be on the side of good as we are currently seeing things, though that could change again.

[Tvtyrant]

Two Months to get up to date on The Wandering Inn? Are you an exceptionally fast speed reader?



I quite like her, I think the problem is that she is exceedingly powerful, and she was introduced from the point of view of the blighted kingdom, which at that point was being implied to be good, though it now turns out to be clearly not good at all.

I don't know, depends on what fast means? Some rough math suggests I read about 330-350 words a minute, it took me about 80-90 hours.

Stuff like “Let us make war until the Walled Cities crack and fall! Until I bring Wistram to wrath and ruin! Until the Death of Chains breaks all of Chandrar’s bonds! Until the world ends and the Death of Wings reclaims her homeland! Let us make glorious war. Properly. For the first time in centuries.”

She's extremely bloodthirsty and in favor of mass murder and overthrowing civilization. I'm sure her cause is righteous, the book is pretty clear that the Demons are in the right against the World. But what she wants isn't much different from what the Grand Queen wants, or any other bad guy.

Like she has a speech about destroying every city associated with Roshal, and overthrowing the Drakes and reimposing harpy rule. We find out later that nearly every city is associated with Roshal. End slavery and destroy Roshal, sure, but if you destroy everything associated with bad things... You destroy everything.

[InvisibleBison]

You don't find slaughtering tens of thousands and laughing about it, or casual murder to be particularly odious?

Not really, no. Morally reprehensible, yes, but I don't find her all that hateable. I certainly wouldn't say that she's one of the three most hateable characters in the story.

[Tvtyrant]

Not really, no. Morally reprehensible, yes, but I don't find her all that hateable. I certainly wouldn't say that she's one of the three most hateable characters in the story.

Who is your list?

[InvisibleBison]

Who is your list?


That slaver who kept people in jars.
A multi-way tie between every other slaver.
Rhisveri, probably, although I don't hate him so much as think his goal is bad and his methods are often immoral.

[Dragonus45]

So, let me like speak my truth on why the Death of Magic is a monster. It isn't just that she killed some people at war, lots of people do that. She outright stated that anyone not using Crelers!!!! as a weapon of war weren't trying hard enough. That was her baseline as near as we can tell. And she went out of her way to make people suffer for the sheer joy and hatred of it too. Look at those ******* Drakes from Manus, as terrible horrible no good very big pieces of **** as they were the internal monologue we got from the spear master wasn't saying to himself "how do I torture these Ants and make the last hours of their lives as painful and miserable as possible". And that bit with her and the Great Knight. Where she killed her just for being in her presence and she felt like it? Then was absolutely about to kill Ryoka too before she was stopped? That's her. She's a monster. And she is such a big monster that after seeing her in action I actually started to understand the Blighted Kingdom more. Up to that point it was really clear they were at best really shady about what actually started the war, we knew the Jester thought that there an actual peaceful resolution to the conflict without genocide (having met the Death of Magic I can only assume he was delusional), and that various others have confirmed that the Demons were not exactly the real deal as far as that term goes. But the sheer existential terror that has to result from knowing the Death of Magic EXISTS and not only want to slaughter everyone in your whole nation but then go on to do it to the entire world till she has broken every nation and power structure in existence! Despite how awful they are I actually started to feel sorry for the bleeding Blighted King! That's how pure awful the Death of Magic is.

[Rynjin]

I'm genuinely not sure why...

A lot of people seem to assume the demons are "the good guys". Just because Rhir (the kingdom) is a ****hole and teh Blighted King is a monster does not make them default the "good side". This has long seemed a case of "he who fights monsters" to me.

[Tvtyrant]

I'm genuinely not sure why...

A lot of people seem to assume the demons are "the good guys". Just because Rhir (the kingdom) is a ****hole and teh Blighted King is a monster does not make them default the "good side". This has long seemed a case of "he who fights monsters" to me.

The setting is full of Gotchas like that with Goblins and Antinium and the like. Also the recent chapter where we discover that the Demons are working with the Antinium against Sleepy is a hint.

[halfeye]

I am enjoying these short, quick chapters.

[Rynjin]

Me too, but I honestly was hoping Pirate would stick to what she said a few chapters ago (that she wasn't going to strain herself doing the chapter a week for her birthday thing again).

At least this time it looks more like a normal length chapter, or slightly longer, cut into multiple pieces instead of 7 nearly full sized chapters.

[Tvtyrant]

Sometimes this series really wants to redeem people past the redemption point. Tyrion is the only PoV character (I think) who is responsible for the deaths of several other PoV characters. He wanted to butcher two groups of civilians as a way to start Continent War IV, there's really no reason I'm going to root for him here.

[Rynjin]

Tyrion is an interesting character, and one I'm more willing to forgive than other monsters in the series.

As opposed to Laken, I give Tyrion more leeway because he was born in this setting. In essence, unlike Laken, there's no reason he should "know better" than to do what he does. He's a pretty standard Lord from a feudal society, and there's thousands like him in our past, some remembered and some not. Nothing he does is particularly heinous from that perspective, as most of the named characters he kills are a race he (and most others) perceive as simply monsters. Laken has no excuse for reenacting the Trail of Tears but with goblins; Tyrion, at least, has a bit of one.

Unlike Flos, he actually has a reason for doing what he does beyond "hurr durr I wanna conquer everything because I crave challenge". He has a true tragedy in his past that has sparked an understandable hatred, and his war on Liscor is an extension of an ongoing war with a race he sees as a monolith. This is racist, and regrettable, but not wholly inaccurate given that this air of a unified Drake nation, help up by the bastions of power (the Walled Cities) is purposefully cultivated by said Drakes.

And perhaps most importantly, unlike those other characters he is capable of questioning his past actions and motivations, and genuinely think about them.

Tyrion seems genuinely willing and more importantly able to learn and change.

Finally, again unlike those other two, Tyrion is not a hypocrite. He doesn't claim to be one thing and have his actions belie the truth (like Flos has done repeatedly). He's a flawed man, living in a flawed world, doing his best...and failing, much of the time.

While I would never call Tyrion a good PERSON, he is an excellent CHARACTER, and I love seeing him on screen, unlike the other two, superficially similar characters I'm comparing him to here.

[Dragonus45]

Sometimes this series really wants to redeem people past the redemption point. Tyrion is the only PoV character (I think) who is responsible for the deaths of several other PoV characters. He wanted to butcher two groups of civilians as a way to start Continent War IV, there's really no reason I'm going to root for him here.

I still feel really conflicted about Tyrion. On the one hand he did the entire battle of Liscor and all the bad that entails. But more then anything that is just another turn in the cycle of violence between Drakes and Humans in Izril that was itself only a retaliation for literally assassinating Tyrion's wife. A crime that was already pretty heinous when we heard it described the first time and the more we see into Tyrion and his personal life the more clear it is how devastating it really was. But recent chapters have made me think that Tyrion might have it in him to change for the better and even potentially help Magnolia in de-escalation of the Drake/Human conflict and I'm reaching a point where I'm willing to judge him on who he is becoming rather then who he was before. The last thing I really need from him is for him to admit he was wrong at the Battle of Liscor.

[Rynjin]

Somebody needs to put Ryoka back on her meds so she at least doesn't have an excuse for her poor decision making anymore.

[Dragonus45]

Somebody needs to put Ryoka back on her meds so she at least doesn't have an excuse for her poor decision making anymore.

Honestly she has improved so much by this point and I'll die on the hill here for this time.

[Tvtyrant]

Good Rabbiteater chapter. The series has a major point about the harshness of the leveling system, it requires a large number of people grind away to a small number o make a single high level character. Reminds me of Runelords, except the funnels isn't by intentionally funneling attributes but just throwing lives away.

Also the more times you do it the more the system is willing to accommodate you. Ceria earlier beating an adult creler 1v1 because she's killed one before and the game is rigged.

[Dragonus45]

Good Rabbiteater chapter. The series has a major point about the harshness of the leveling system, it requires a large number of people grind away to a small number o make a single high level character. Reminds me of Runelords, except the funnels isn't by intentionally funneling attributes but just throwing lives away.

Also the more times you do it the more the system is willing to accommodate you. Ceria earlier beating an adult creler 1v1 because she's killed one before and the game is rigged.

So yea in general I agree the harshness of what you need to overcome to level meaning that so few ever reach a real height sucks, but I'm not sure if I get the idea that Ceria was able to stall that creler only because she had beaten one before. It was more that she become stronger and wiser in how to use her power and her magic was actually kind of a good matchup once she realized how to better use it against something spell resistant. Also I think it was smaller. Rabbiteater continues to be the best and I want even more chapters from him at all times forever. Things are just going so damn well for him though and I keep waiting for a centipedes worth of shoes to start dropping.

[Tvtyrant]

So yea in general I agree the harshness of what you need to overcome to level meaning that so few ever reach a real height sucks, but I'm not sure if I get the idea that Ceria was able to stall that creler only because she had beaten one before. It was more that she become stronger and wiser in how to use her power and her magic was actually kind of a good matchup once she realized how to better use it against something spell resistant. Also I think it was smaller. Rabbiteater continues to be the best and I want even more chapters from him at all times forever. Things are just going so damn well for him though and I keep waiting for a centipedes worth of shoes to start dropping.

I think it's illustrative that the characters repeatedly run into the same kinds of threats wherever they go. The Horns run into bandits, Crelers, and undead. Ryoka deals with immortals, Erin deals with dehumanized tribes, etc. I think the world not only is designed to level people, there's some sort of fate mechanic that repeats earlier encounters at a harder level.

The Horns seem to be being made into Named Adventurers that can ally with the Demons, they fight old threats like undead, Roshal, and Crelers and are internationally famous. Erin is helping to ally the Antium, Goblins and Gnolls for the fight against Sleepy, Ryoka is getting the immortals onboard and aware of the divine threat.

[halfeye]

I've begun to wonder how Eldavin (am I spelling that right?) could survive Teriarch waking, could he begin to level, how many levels would he need to be safe, would one be enough?

As a side-thought, if Eldavin can survive, how many previous Archmages heve been Teriarch's cast offs? Cognita's creator seems to be someone Teriarch didn't respect, is that one of his previous alter-egos that took flight?

[Dragonus45]

I've begun to wonder how Eldavin (am I spelling that right?) could survive Teriarch waking, could he begin to level, how many levels would he need to be safe, would one be enough?

As a side-thought, if Eldavin can survive, how many previous Archmages heve been Teriarch's cast offs? Cognita's creator seems to be someone Teriarch didn't respect, is that one of his previous alter-egos that took flight?

I feel like survival from him would require a very specific effort on his part to modify his body to be able to survive without Teri for support but even then I doubt he would be allowed levels or anything like that. I'm also fairly certain that this situation is probably pretty unique and that he hasn't ever done it before. Especially not with Zelkyr.

[halfeye]

I feel like survival from him would require a very specific effort on his part to modify his body to be able to survive without Teri for support but even then I doubt he would be allowed levels or anything like that. I'm also fairly certain that this situation is probably pretty unique and that he hasn't ever done it before. Especially not with Zelkyr.
Teriarch has been around for 10,000 tears, and we know he's had previous simulcra (he was confused about which one was current), if Eldavin can survive, which is still in doubt and may well be unlikely, then the chances must be that others have before.

The reason Eldavin doesn't currently have levels is because he is a dragon in disguise, if he became a half elf, who do get levels, it would be expectable that he would then be able to level up.

[InvisibleBison]

The reason Eldavin doesn't currently have levels is because he is a dragon in disguise

I'm not sure this is correct. I think the reason Eldavin doesn't have any levels is because he's a simulacrum, a spell effect. Breaking free from Teriarch wouldn't cause that to stop being the case, so it wouldn't enable him to start leveling.

[Rynjin]

His plan was to use a ritual to turn himself into a real boy. Who know what might happen at that point.

[halfeye]

I'm not sure this is correct. I think the reason Eldavin doesn't have any levels is because he's a simulacrum, a spell effect. Breaking free from Teriarch wouldn't cause that to stop being the case, so it wouldn't enable him to start leveling.

I'm by no means saying that Eldavin must level, it seems to me it's possible, and it might be fun, think what he'd be like at level 1, or level 5, and given how powerful he is, how frighteningly fast he would gain levels, supposing that without Teriarch his mana wasn't totally crippled.


His plan was to use a ritual to turn himself into a real boy. Who know what might happen at that point.

Oh, really? I missed that. Yeah, would he forget everything?

[Tvtyrant]

So someone on Reddit pointed out that Wyrmvr is based on Crelers. Which sets up Rhisveri saying that Creler's are based on Wyrms.

[halfeye]

Fraerlings?

I get that it's part of the story, but I've yet to see more than hints that it connects with the rest.

[Tvtyrant]

Fraerlings?

I get that it's part of the story, but I've yet to see more than hints that it connects with the rest.

I think the evidence suggests the Gnomes and Elves got eaten by the Gods. The Fraerlings are the connection between the Earthers and the bigger cosmological system.

[halfeye]

Well, that was a bit confused. I'm not sure the whole thing isn't about to end.

[Dragonus45]

Well, that was a bit confused. I'm not sure the whole thing isn't about to end.

So I had thought we were about two books from being done. After the last couple chapters I have revised that to about 5 or more if new problems pop up from there. Which part has been confusing for you BTW?

[halfeye]

So Teriarch was dead but now he isn't again? That's just bad, in my view.

[Dragonus45]

So Teriarch was dead but now he isn't again? That's just bad, in my view.

He died briefly, but at that point with the auction being cancelled by Oberon it was really clear the scroll was going to be used for him.

[halfeye]

So book 8 is done, and it's planned to be a month before 9 starts.

I'm glad a lot of stuff has been resolved, kind of like what Belavier did to Plains Eye (which is bizzare, given who Belavier is). I doubt I have time for the rest if it's taken 8 years to get 1/3rd of the way in. I really don't have any patience for "the protagonist was told the entire plot but then forgot it" shenanigans.

[Dragonus45]

So book 8 is done, and it's planned to be a month before 9 starts.

I'm glad a lot of stuff has been resolved, kind of like what Belavier did to Plains Eye (which is bizzare, given who Belavier is). I doubt I have time for the rest if it's taken 8 years to get 1/3rd of the way in. I really don't have any patience for "the protagonist was told the entire plot but then forgot it" shenanigans.

To be fair, neither did the protagonist. It's why she refused to forget and literally broke the Grand Design to do it.

[J-H]

I binged up until about 7 days ago (from Feb), still need to read the rest of Arc 8.
Lots of stuff out of left field, like ghost general Sseryss who has never been a main character and super-awesome gnomes who fight, do magic, and build spaceships better than anyone else while also being nice, snarky (allegedly funny) and knowing everything. Too much brand new stuff introduced to solve problems for my taste.

Nothing's going to be able to top this arc/set of enemies, and it feels like after it's resolved it'll all be downhill denouement from there. Basically all of the big conflicts and battles that have been set up no longer matter.

Unless they actually get a portal to earth working. I'd rather the story end before that point. I hope there is an ending in mind.

[InvisibleBison]

Nothing's going to be able to top this arc/set of enemies, and it feels like after it's resolved it'll all be downhill denouement from there.

That may be, but I don't think these enemies are going to be resolved any time soon. At the end of volume 8 they're all at least temporarily out of the picture for one reason or another, and I get the sense that the next volume(s) will be about getting ready to deal with them when they return, with said return occurring at the actual end of the story. And the author's note at the end of volume 8 does say there's a definite end and some sort of plan as to how to get there.

[halfeye]

And the author's note at the end of volume 8 does say there's a definite end and some sort of plan as to how to get there.

Yeah, but it also says that the story is somewhere between 1/3rd and 2/3rds done, which at a current time of 8 years, implies 4 to 16 years to go, the latter of which is a long time.

[Eurus]

Honestly, I'll be happy if we go back to some smaller scope stuff. The continent-spanning disasters and wars haven't been as fun for me.

[Dragonus45]

Yea I liked it as a big volume to really sell how drastically the end of volume 7 changed things and to pay off a lot of plot threads that came before but I wouldn't want it to be every book. Thankfully Pirate pulled it off and now we can transition back to even more people meeting people and other people.


I binged up until about 7 days ago (from Feb), still need to read the rest of Arc 8.
Lots of stuff out of left field, like ghost general Sseryss who has never been a main character and super-awesome gnomes who fight, do magic, and build spaceships better than anyone else while also being nice, snarky (allegedly funny) and knowing everything. Too much brand new stuff introduced to solve problems for my taste.


All of it was stuff introduced before though, we never saw Sseryss in the afterlife and never got confirmation he was eaten so it made sense he was somewhere doing something, and as a character who was talked about so much but seen so little it helped give closure to his and Zel's story. There are a lot of cool things he enables along the way as well but since you mentioned not being done I'll not go into detail. We also had several books now of buildup about how Gnomes were really damn smart and more advanced then anyone current could pretend to be. Of course they were going to show up at the big climax. Since you aren't done I will not go into to much detail here either but they really do get less done then you think.

[J-H]

Ok, I'm caught up now. Yeah, they didn't do much, but a few references and some leave-behinds weren't a lot of buildup to me over the years.

Pirateaba could end the story here and I'd be fine with it. Most of the big main arcs are resolved enough, and the ones that remain are more side plots.

There's still plenty to cover, but little of it will directly focus around Erin or Liscor at this point. All of the big unresolved plot hooks are somewhere else.

[halfeye]

Seemed sort of slow to me. I do like that there was a lot of text to it, short daily updates as some others do it can be a bit trying.

[Dragonus45]

Yea the start is a bit slow, if you are worried about the updates being to short though I have some great news for you...

[halfeye]

Yea the start is a bit slow, if you are worried about the updates being to short though I have some great news for you...

I was moaning about other webserials being short.

[halfeye]

Teriarch and Rhisveri sort of fizzled?

[Rynjin]

I think it ended exactly as it needed to. Ultimately, this was a matter if diplomacy and "face", not a fight to the death...even if Rhisveri really thought he wanted it to be one when he started it.

[halfeye]

Well, 9.07 was much more like it.

[Rynjin]

I've enjoyed volume 9 a lot so far. I wasn't against the idea of sidelining Erin, but I feel like it wasn't handled the best and volume 8 felt kinda meandering and bloated. Her return is a real breath of fresh air, and I like that it's not just a return to status quo either, despite her best efforts.

[Eurus]

I've been liking volume 9 a lot too, it really does feel like a nice change of pace (or maybe return to form). Having a break also helped. I wasn't sure if I would like it, since I was feeling a bit burned out by the end of volume 8, but it's been going well!

[Dragonus45]

I've enjoyed volume 9 a lot so far. I wasn't against the idea of sidelining Erin, but I feel like it wasn't handled the best and volume 8 felt kinda meandering and bloated. Her return is a real breath of fresh air, and I like that it's not just a return to status quo either, despite her best efforts.

So I think the real issue with bloat was the Gnoot. In one of the key downsides of web serial writing, Pirate found himself stuck having this massive looooong foreshadowed event with tons of moving parts and characters that was meant to play a key role in the climax of the volume... and virtually no one had been introduced yet. The comparison I think I used on the podcast was comparing it to if the battle for Liscor at the end of volume 5 had tried to introduce almost every goblin in the story in that same book. Everything else felt relatively tight, if sometimes padded, because Pirate had to make sure events were timed properly relative to one another. I could have used more Ser Solstice myself.


I've been liking volume 9 a lot too, it really does feel like a nice change of pace (or maybe return to form). Having a break also helped. I wasn't sure if I would like it, since I was feeling a bit burned out by the end of volume 8, but it's been going well!

Volume 9 has been dropping bangers one after another. I think Pirate forcer herself to be more concise and keep word count down has helped, as has a schedule where she has been taking extra time off working on side projects instead of trying to write books while she writes books.