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Greywander
2021-11-20, 11:00 PM
Like Flesh to Stone, but it turns you into a tree.

I've been working on a Witch class, and this was one idea I had for a new spell for them. Turning people to stone is kind of witchy, but it's old hat for D&D. Turning people into trees is very witchy, and not something I've seen in D&D yet (though I'm sure it exists somewhere). I was also partly inspired by Dark Souls and its recurring theme of things turning (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_URxg8B9hoU) into trees (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt4XdxE2bgU).

Two things I'm wondering, though, and they're kind of related: First, how would this actually differ from Flesh to Stone? Second, would it use the petrified condition and/or not work on enemies immune to petrification? This could very well be nothing more than a simple reskin of Flesh to Stone. Though maybe that's alright, it would still make a narrative difference, even if it functioned identically on the mechanical side.

Foolwise
2021-11-20, 11:45 PM
Petrified wood is an actual thing, so a reskin would work.

False God
2021-11-20, 11:51 PM
I think a reskin of "Flesh to Stone" would work fine, probably a primarily-Druid or nature-cleric spell though. With the notable difference that instead of being a statue, the person is now a living tree. Planted and everything. To be clearly differentiated from turning them into say, a wood carving that looks like the person/creature.

Could lead to some cool/creepy setting implications.

PhantomSoul
2021-11-21, 12:08 AM
I think a reskin of "Flesh to Stone" would work fine, probably a primarily-Druid or nature-cleric spell though. With the notable difference that instead of being a statue, the person is now a living tree. Planted and everything. To be clearly differentiated from turning them into say, a wood carving that looks like the person/creature.

Could lead to some cool/creepy setting implications.

If it shows up on an NPC first and the players+feel fit, maybe a reference to Majora's Mask (tree in the intro).

But yeah, lots of potential for this idea as petrified or non-petrified

Ugmaro
2021-11-21, 12:13 AM
If this is a poll type of thing I'm voting for a different mechanic than petrification - I'd make it a living tree that can flail it's "limbs" (branches) around and constantly moan/creak in pain. More of a polymorph through curse than petrification.

PhantomSoul
2021-11-21, 12:25 AM
If this is a poll type of thing I'm voting for a different mechanic than petrification - I'd make it a living tree that can flail it's "limbs" (branches) around and constantly moan/creak in pain. More of a polymorph through curse than petrification.

I think I'd have that be before full "petrification", but I'm a sucker for multi-step curses and partial failures

Kane0
2021-11-21, 01:23 AM
Polymorph is 4th level and FtS is 6th, i'd split it down the middle and make it a 5th level spell.

Greywander
2021-11-21, 01:25 AM
Maybe it would be weaker than Flesh to Stone. Instead of outright petrifying, it would turn the creature into a tree-esque version of themselves (with some kind of suitable debuff as a result). But it wouldn't stop there. As the transformation progressed, the victim would get more and more tree-like, with their limbs extending and new "branches" sprouting out of them. Likely, the target would make a saving throw each day, with the transformation progressing one stage on a failed save, making the debuff more severe. They only end up fully "petrified" (i.e. 100% tree) if they reach the final stage before removing the effect. Allowing removal with Remove Curse makes it a bit more accessible than Greater Restoration. Once the transformation completes, though, Greater Restoration would be necessary.

This is still a pretty potent-sounding spell, though. Good to cast on someone without access to Remove Curse and come back later once they're full tree. Maybe 5th level? Too strong for 4th level?

As for the debuff, it would likely include a speed reduction, a penalty to attack rolls and DEX saves. Also, a bit of natural armor (or damage reduction?) as a minor buff. As the transformation progresses, these penalties would increase in severity, likely with the last stage before the process completes them being completely unable to move, but still conscious. Speed reductions are tricky when you don't know the creature's base speed. A -10 to speed is fairly hefty for a standard humanoid, but on a creature with a 120 foot fly speed, it's negligible. Maybe something like the following?

-5 speed, -1d4 to attacks & STR/DEX checks/saves, 12 AC (or 2 damage reduction?)
Half speed + 5, -1d6 to attacks & STR/DEX checks/saves, 13 AC (or 3 damage reduction)
Half speed, -1d8 to attacks & STR/DEX checks/saves, 14 AC (or 4 damage reduction)
Half speed - 5, -1d10 to attacks & STR/DEX checks/saves, 15 AC (or 5 damage reduction)
5 speed, -1d12 to attacks & STR/DEX checks/saves, 16 AC (or 6 damage reduction)
0 speed, can't attack, auto-fails STR/DEX checks/saves, 18 AC (or 8 damage reduction)
Fully transformed (petrified)

Guy Lombard-O
2021-11-21, 09:08 AM
I like it. I'd go with the non-petrified wood version.

I know you're working towards a playable Witch class. But I'm envisioning a hag or NPC witch who the PCs come across in her home, maybe somebody who can help them in a quest. She agrees to listen to them and consider helping, but she complains about the cold and demands they build her a fire in the fireplace, directing them out to chop down and use some of those "scrub trees" that are taking over her yard...

Imbalance
2021-11-21, 10:17 AM
"I am Groot."

False God
2021-11-21, 10:52 AM
Maybe it would be weaker than Flesh to Stone. Instead of outright petrifying, it would turn the creature into a tree-esque version of themselves (with some kind of suitable debuff as a result). But it wouldn't stop there. As the transformation progressed, the victim would get more and more tree-like, with their limbs extending and new "branches" sprouting out of them. Likely, the target would make a saving throw each day, with the transformation progressing one stage on a failed save, making the debuff more severe. They only end up fully "petrified" (i.e. 100% tree) if they reach the final stage before removing the effect. Allowing removal with Remove Curse makes it a bit more accessible than Greater Restoration. Once the transformation completes, though, Greater Restoration would be necessary.

This is still a pretty potent-sounding spell, though. Good to cast on someone without access to Remove Curse and come back later once they're full tree. Maybe 5th level? Too strong for 4th level?

As for the debuff, it would likely include a speed reduction, a penalty to attack rolls and DEX saves. Also, a bit of natural armor (or damage reduction?) as a minor buff. As the transformation progresses, these penalties would increase in severity, likely with the last stage before the process completes them being completely unable to move, but still conscious. Speed reductions are tricky when you don't know the creature's base speed. A -10 to speed is fairly hefty for a standard humanoid, but on a creature with a 120 foot fly speed, it's negligible. Maybe something like the following?

-5 speed, -1d4 to attacks & STR/DEX checks/saves, 12 AC (or 2 damage reduction?)
Half speed + 5, -1d6 to attacks & STR/DEX checks/saves, 13 AC (or 3 damage reduction)
Half speed, -1d8 to attacks & STR/DEX checks/saves, 14 AC (or 4 damage reduction)
Half speed - 5, -1d10 to attacks & STR/DEX checks/saves, 15 AC (or 5 damage reduction)
5 speed, -1d12 to attacks & STR/DEX checks/saves, 16 AC (or 6 damage reduction)
0 speed, can't attack, auto-fails STR/DEX checks/saves, 18 AC (or 8 damage reduction)
Fully transformed (petrified)


While the idea of slowly turning to stone or a tree or whatever is certainly more terrifying IMO, does the target gat a chance to save at any of these stages, and if they do, does whatever level of effect the spell has reached remain?
-if the spell is cast on them again, does it resume from that stage?

Bjarkmundur
2021-11-21, 10:59 AM
The hype for this witch class is real ngl

Sigreid
2021-11-21, 12:39 PM
If you want to turn them into a tree or bush, that's straight up the True Polymorph schtick. If you want to turn them into wooden statues, just copy paste and edit flesh to stone.

Greywander
2021-11-21, 01:59 PM
While the idea of slowly turning to stone or a tree or whatever is certainly more terrifying IMO, does the target gat a chance to save at any of these stages, and if they do, does whatever level of effect the spell has reached remain?
-if the spell is cast on them again, does it resume from that stage?
I'll probably mimic Flesh to Stone, so they'd get multiple chances to end the spell early by passing a save (or three), or they can break your concentration to end the effect. Once the effect becomes permanent (which, in Flesh to Stone would mean they're already petrified), saving doesn't remove it, it only delays the transformation, and a Remove Curse spell would be required to end the effect. Again, this is less harsh that Flesh to Stone, which requires Greater Restoration. It would only be once the transformation is complete that a Greater Restoration would be necessary, making it equivalent to Flesh to Stone over a long enough time scale (assuming the target can't find someone to cast Remove Curse). In other words, it's less than or equally severe as Flesh to Stone at every stage. But maybe I could add a clause where if they pass the save three days in a row, the transformation will regress one stage, and if they can regress all the way back, the effect would end. Or something like that.

You can't be affected by two instances of the same spell, so casting the spell on them again while they're already affected would do nothing. Once the effect ends, they would be completely back to normal, regardless of how far the transformation had progressed. If you cast the spell on them again at that point, it would start over from the beginning.

And yeah, somehow the slow transformation is much more horrifying than instantly turning to stone. I love it. I think this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKwAoRJxwUE) explains why this is more horrifying. "It's simple, inexpensive, personal, and deadly. But, it gives you a little hope. Maybe you'll escape." I'm also reminded of the Countdown Ending from the Stanley Parable, which is my favorite ending (after the Broom Closet Ending).


The hype for this witch class is real ngl
:smallsmile: Hopefully I don't disappoint. I think I'm almost done with the base class, but it does feel a bit overtuned (mostly due to trying to stack buffs to your familiar on top of your other class features, so I'll see what I can do to tone it down). After that, I just need to fill out the spell list (including writing up new spells, like this one), and finish the subclasses.


If you want to turn them into a tree or bush, that's straight up the True Polymorph schtick. If you want to turn them into wooden statues, just copy paste and edit flesh to stone.
True Polymorph is more than just turning people into trees. It's not uncommon to have a stronger spell that can replicate the effect of a weaker spell, but much more quickly, with fewer saves, and can also do a lot of other things than just that one effect. Heck, True Polymorph can do anything Polymorph can. True Polymorph is also a 9th level spell, and this definitely isn't a 9th level effect. In fact, the effect I've proposed is weaker than Flesh to Stone, which is only a 6th level spell. In my mind, this makes perfect sense to be its own spell.

Andrwrwn
2021-11-21, 02:20 PM
I think it says a lot for the calibre of this site's clientele that the title of this thread hasn't tempted anyone into a ribald quip.

Greywander
2021-11-21, 03:34 PM
Flesh to Wood
5th-level transmutation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V, S, M (a chip of bark from a tree where the dead are buried)
Duration: concentration, up to 1 minute

You attempt to turn one creature that you can see within range into wood. If the target's body is made of flesh, the creature must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, the creature's flesh begins to harden and their skin turns to a bark-like texture, decreasing the target's movement speed by 5 feet and the target must subtract 1d4 from any attack rolls and Strength or Dexterity checks and saving throws they make. On a successful save, the creature isn't affected.

Once a creature begins turning to wood, they must make another Constitution saving throw at the end of each of its turns. IF it successfully saves against this spell three times, the spell ends. If it fails its save three times, then the transformation progresses to the next stage. Until the spell ends, the target must spend 2 feet of movement for every 1 foot it moves, and the penalty to attack rolls and to Strength and Dexterity checks and saves increases to 1d6, but the target also reduces all damage taken by 3. The successes and failures don't need to be consecutive; keep track of both until the target collects three of a kind.

If you maintain your concentration on this spell for the entire possible duration, the spell becomes permanent and no longer requires concentration. Once the spell becomes permanent, the transformation will continue progressing until the target fully transforms. At each dawn, the target must make another Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, the transformation progresses to the next stage. If the target succeeds on three consecutive saves, they revert to a previous stage, ending the spell if they they revert to before the initial stage. The stages are as follows:

Stage 1 (initial). Speed penalty: reduced by 5 feet. Roll penalty: 1d4. Damage reduction: none.
Stage 2 (after three failed saves). Speed penalty: spends 2 feet per foot. Roll penalty: 1d6. Damage reduction: 3.
Stage 3. Speed penalty: spends 3 feet per foot. Roll penalty: 1d8. Damage reduction: 4.
Stage 4. Speed penalty: spends 4 feet per foot. Roll penalty: 1d10. Damage reduction: 5.
Stage 5. Speed penalty: spends 5 feet per foot. Roll penalty: 1d12. Damage reduction: 6.
Stage 6. Speed penalty: reduced to 0. Roll penalty: automatically fails. Damage reduction: 8. The target is incapacitated and can't speak, but is still alive and aware.
Stage 7. The target fully transforms into a tree contorted into the vague shape of the creature they used to be.

At any point before reaching the final stage of the transformation, the spell can be removed by casting remove curse on the target. Once the final stage is reached, only greater restoration or an equally powerful spell can return them to their original form. In the final form, the creature no longer makes Constitution saving throws each dawn, and can't revert unless the spell is removed by some other means.

If the creature is physically broken while it is a tree, it suffers from similar deformities if it reverts to its original state.

Considering that the initial effects of this spell are considerably weaker than the restrained or petrified condition, I'm wondering if this should even be a 4th level spell. It almost feels like something you wouldn't use in combat as much as for a long term curse on someone.


I think it says a lot for the calibre of this site's clientele that the title of this thread hasn't tempted anyone into a ribald quip.
Actually I didn't even think of it until you brought it up. You should think long and hard about what you've done, you've committed a pretty big boner (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RoDy1oqS-E), if I do say so.

KorvinStarmast
2021-11-22, 03:50 PM
I think it says a lot for the calibre of this site's clientele that the title of this thread hasn't tempted anyone into a ribald quip. I was tempted to render one such, but I held back. It was hard to do.

Greywander
2021-11-22, 05:50 PM
It occurs to me that another major point towards making this a separate spell from Flesh to Stone, and one that is 5th level or lower, is that the Witch class I'm working on is using Pact Magic for their spellcasting, so the difference between a 5th level spell and a 6th level spell is much bigger than on a standard spellcaster.

TBH, this feels weaker than a 5th level spell, in combat. I think this is balanced by the fact that it eventually becomes permanent if they don't cure it. So this might not have as much application in combat, but would make for some fantastic roleplay. You could even use it to avoid encounters by tree-ing the first enemy you see and sending them back to their base. By the time you get there several days later, all the enemies should be thoroughly squicked by the progressive transformation, and thus more likely to negotiate or flee.

Ugmaro
2021-11-22, 06:25 PM
Flesh to Wood
5th-level transmutation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V, S, M (a chip of bark from a tree where the dead are buried)
Duration: concentration, up to 1 minute

You attempt to turn one creature that you can see within range into wood. If the target's body is made of flesh, the creature must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, the creature's flesh begins to harden and their skin turns to a bark-like texture, decreasing the target's movement speed by 5 feet and the target must subtract 1d4 from any attack rolls and Strength or Dexterity checks and saving throws they make. On a successful save, the creature isn't affected.

Once a creature begins turning to wood, they must make another Constitution saving throw at the end of each of its turns. IF it successfully saves against this spell three times, the spell ends. If it fails its save three times, then the transformation progresses to the next stage. Until the spell ends, the target must spend 2 feet of movement for every 1 foot it moves, and the penalty to attack rolls and to Strength and Dexterity checks and saves increases to 1d6, but the target also reduces all damage taken by 3. The successes and failures don't need to be consecutive; keep track of both until the target collects three of a kind.

If you maintain your concentration on this spell for the entire possible duration, the spell becomes permanent and no longer requires concentration. Once the spell becomes permanent, the transformation will continue progressing until the target fully transforms. At each dawn, the target must make another Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, the transformation progresses to the next stage. If the target succeeds on three consecutive saves, they revert to a previous stage, ending the spell if they they revert to before the initial stage. The stages are as follows:

Stage 1 (initial). Speed penalty: reduced by 5 feet. Roll penalty: 1d4. Damage reduction: none.
Stage 2 (after three failed saves). Speed penalty: spends 2 feet per foot. Roll penalty: 1d6. Damage reduction: 3.
Stage 3. Speed penalty: spends 3 feet per foot. Roll penalty: 1d8. Damage reduction: 4.
Stage 4. Speed penalty: spends 4 feet per foot. Roll penalty: 1d10. Damage reduction: 5.
Stage 5. Speed penalty: spends 5 feet per foot. Roll penalty: 1d12. Damage reduction: 6.
Stage 6. Speed penalty: reduced to 0. Roll penalty: automatically fails. Damage reduction: 8. The target is incapacitated and can't speak, but is still alive and aware.
Stage 7. The target fully transforms into a tree contorted into the vague shape of the creature they used to be.

At any point before reaching the final stage of the transformation, the spell can be removed by casting remove curse on the target. Once the final stage is reached, only greater restoration or an equally powerful spell can return them to their original form. In the final form, the creature no longer makes Constitution saving throws each dawn, and can't revert unless the spell is removed by some other means.

If the creature is physically broken while it is a tree, it suffers from similar deformities if it reverts to its original state.

Considering that the initial effects of this spell are considerably weaker than the restrained or petrified condition, I'm wondering if this should even be a 4th level spell. It almost feels like something you wouldn't use in combat as much as for a long term curse on someone.

I'm not entirely sure I like the penalty to STR and DEX saves - I'd say make it that the Witch can choose whether it affects STR or DEX (some types of wood are very tough but can't be bent while others are the other way around).

While I understand the difficulty of wording these things I think you need to make it 100% clear how this works. If a player came to me with this spell I'd probably have to make a strange ruling about what happens when the concentration is broken (or 3 saves happen) after Stage 2 (or later stages) takes place. I'd rule it so that after the spell progresses past Stage 1 those effects become permanent, even if the "spell ends". I'd also make it that you need to cast remove curse once for each of the stages that has occurred, just because that seems like a thematic thing: 'As the half-tree bandit returns to his camp the warlock recognizes this is a curse. Calling upon his arcane powers to remove the curse the bark somewhat recedes though the expression on the bandits face along with the creaking of wood as he moves makes it painfully clear that this was not enough to cure this gruesome ailment'. In fact, you could also add this to the "permanent spell" part - while the spell does end and one of the stages reverts, the curse is not fully removed so easily. If you upcast remove curse you remove 2 stages more for each higher level of the upcast (meaning 3 stages with a lvl 4 spell slot and 5 stages with a lvl 5 spell slot).

While this doesn't really change the usefulness of the spell in combat it does make it SUPER TERRIBLE for whoever is effected, which you kinda expect out of a 5th lvl spell to be honest. :)

Joe the Rat
2021-11-23, 08:58 AM
I see where you are going with this - the transformation mechanics are a bit fiddly, but it gets there. Basically bestow curse x flesh to stone, by way of xylification.

So if the target make three saves in a minute, the effect ends. If you maintain concentration for a minute, it takes root, and no longer needs concentration to progress.
At the end of one minute, the target is either free and clear, or up three stages - unless you mean that this only applies once).

Does remove curse end the effect? Run it like dispel magic - upcasting or rolling against spell level DC? Is there a complimentary Wood to Flesh effect to end the transformation?


If I were building this from scratch:
- under the initial effects, they are slowed as per the spell.
- After the target fails three saves, they gain a level of exhaustion, and the curse fully takes root. These exhaustion levels cannot be removed by completing a long rest.
? If the spell ends, the level of exhaustion is removed.
- if the spell runs the full duration, the curse continues to operate.
- resave each day, failure results in gaining another level of exhaustion. three successful saves recovers a level. (Would managing to return to 0 exhaustion break the curse?)
- Over the course of the transformation, the target also gains/suffers:
resistance to piercing damage
resistance to bludgeoning damage
vulnerability to fire damage
minimum AC 16 / unarmored AC 16
(apply these in whatever order, successively or in clusters)
- 6th level of exhaustion results in full xylification. (As the petrification condition)

Why exhaustion? First, it's under-utilized. Second, I think it does a good job of capturing the slowly losing mobility and focus, the last stages removing mobility and consciousness before finishing the job. Third, greater restoration will remove ONE stage/level of progression. I'd consider this a feature - burning a 4th level spell each day to halt the progression of a curse seems very roleplay positive - I'm picturing the Oaken King with his mid-level court priest dropping his best magics to keep the king merely a bit stiff and wooden, or a Dark Agent offering to hold or remove levels in exchange for servitude. Fourth, I kind of like the idea of pushing yourself too hard results in burning through your flesh faster.

Of course, then we get the issue of partially turning someone into a tree then (somehow) removing the curse to clear exhaustion levels from a party member.


A random aside:
I used the simple translation (petrification, only wood) for a cursed dryad - basically a wood medusa. her swampy lair was surrounded by her victims - her man grove. As an added complication, they could be awakened to act as muscle.

Guy Lombard-O
2021-11-23, 10:57 AM
Does remove curse end the effect? Run it like dispel magic - upcasting or rolling against spell level DC? Is there a complimentary Wood to Flesh effect to end the transformation?

6th level of exhaustion results in full xylification. (As the petrification condition)

Why exhaustion? First, it's under-utilized. Second, I think it does a good job of capturing the slowly losing mobility and focus, the last stages removing mobility and consciousness before finishing the job. Third, greater restoration will remove ONE stage/level of progression. I'd consider this a feature - burning a 4th 5th level spell each day to halt the progression of a curse seems very roleplay positive - I'm picturing the Oaken King with his mid-level court priest dropping his best magics to keep the king merely a bit stiff and wooden, or a Dark Agent offering to hold or remove levels in exchange for servitude. Fourth, I kind of like the idea of pushing yourself too hard results in burning through your flesh faster.

Not sure if you're suggesting both that the spell should use exhaustion mechanics, and that Remove Curse should work upon it by incorporating the Dispel Magic mechanics? But if so, then (at least for clerics) the court priest who can cast Greater Restoration would be better off simply upcasting a 5th level Remove Curse, thereby nullifying much of the fun. I'd stay away from including the (almost always problematic and anit-fun) Remove Curse as a fix.


a cursed dryad - basically a wood medusa. her swampy lair was surrounded by her victims - her man grove.

Love that!

KorvinStarmast
2021-11-23, 11:14 AM
A random aside:
I used the simple translation (petrification, only wood) for a cursed dryad - basically a wood medusa. her swampy lair was surrounded by her victims - her man grove. As an added complication, they could be awakened to act as muscle.
I see what you did there. :smallbiggrin: Well played!

Greywander
2021-12-02, 12:02 AM
I've been thinking about this again, wondering if I should simplify the spell and cut down the number of stages for the transformation. The issue is that this doesn't seem especially useful for combat, given that the enemy needs to fail 4 saving throws before they get a significant debuff (with a more minor debuff on one failed save). Flesh to Stone, for example, restrains the target after the first failed save, so maybe Flesh to Wood should restrain after the 3 failed saves (following the initial save). Hmm...

Flesh to Stone restrains after one failed save, then petrifies after three subsequent failed saves. Since Flesh to Wood is one level lower, it might make sense for it to do something not quite as severe as restraining after an initial failed save, then do something more severe than restraining (but less severe than petrifying) after the three failed saves.

With this in mind, perhaps we can reduce this spell to just three stages:

Failing the initial save would halve speed and give disadvantage on attack rolls and DEX saves. This is slightly less severe than the restrained condition.
Failing three subsequent saves would drop speed to 0, give disadvantage on attack rolls, STR checks and save, and DEX checks and saves, and grant advantage on attacks against them (or not, if their hardened flesh makes them more difficult to injure). This is somewhere between restrained and petrified in severity.
If the spell is made permanent, then they'd make another save at every dawn. After three failed saves, they'd fully transform into a tree. After three successes, they'd shake off the spell and return to normal.

Thoughts on this? This seems more streamlined than what I had before, and more useful in combat (albeit still inefficient compared to other 5th level spells you could cast).

False God
2021-12-02, 01:11 AM
I've been thinking about this again, wondering if I should simplify the spell and cut down the number of stages for the transformation. The issue is that this doesn't seem especially useful for combat, given that the enemy needs to fail 4 saving throws before they get a significant debuff (with a more minor debuff on one failed save). Flesh to Stone, for example, restrains the target after the first failed save, so maybe Flesh to Wood should restrain after the 3 failed saves (following the initial save). Hmm...

Flesh to Stone restrains after one failed save, then petrifies after three subsequent failed saves. Since Flesh to Wood is one level lower, it might make sense for it to do something not quite as severe as restraining after an initial failed save, then do something more severe than restraining (but less severe than petrifying) after the three failed saves.

With this in mind, perhaps we can reduce this spell to just three stages:

Failing the initial save would halve speed and give disadvantage on attack rolls and DEX saves. This is slightly less severe than the restrained condition.
Failing three subsequent saves would drop speed to 0, give disadvantage on attack rolls, STR checks and save, and DEX checks and saves, and grant advantage on attacks against them (or not, if their hardened flesh makes them more difficult to injure). This is somewhere between restrained and petrified in severity.
If the spell is made permanent, then they'd make another save at every dawn. After three failed saves, they'd fully transform into a tree. After three successes, they'd shake off the spell and return to normal.

Thoughts on this? This seems more streamlined than what I had before, and more useful in combat (albeit still inefficient compared to other 5th level spells you could cast).

I think it really comes down to the interplay with other class abilities.

Like, lets say that Witch spells all sort of work like this. They have stages, progressive effects, like the classic storybook curses. The more horrible you behaved, the more monstrous you became, the longer you let the situation go unaddressed, the harder it would be to undo, etc..

The end result is always a dramatic and powerful and often karmic effect, but it has to do it over several stages giving the target several chances to succeed and throw the whole thing off.

But then lets say the Witch class has has some kind of class feature that accelerates the effect. Or makes it contagious. Or skips straight to the end as a 15+ ability. These options can be limited to long/short rest uses or even daily abilities, or based off some other magics the witch performs.

So, a low-level spell with multiple outs seems weak, but as the witch levels up, those exit doors close.

Greywander
2021-12-02, 01:56 AM
I think it really comes down to the interplay with other class abilities.
[...]
So, a low-level spell with multiple outs seems weak, but as the witch levels up, those exit doors close.
Hmm, this is an interesting idea. Since my witch class is using pact magic, it's already built in that they upcast their spells automatically (up to 5th level). Unlike the warlock, they can use arcanum slots to upcast lower level spells, too. For Flesh to Wood, it could be something as simple as them needing a number of successful saves equal to the spell's level. So cast at 5th level they'd need to pass five saves to end the effect, but only fail three to progress it.

This is just one spell that happens to be on the witch's spell list, and nothing compels you to take this particular spell, either. I'm not going to create an entire list of custom spells. But I could see incorporating this idea into a few custom spells.

I might also look into working this into their other class features. Right now, their main schtick is (a) casting Bane at-will, and (b) learning a number of hexes that can be added as additional riders to Bane, Hex, or Bestow Curse. Of those, only Bestow Curse can last for more than 24 hours, and only when cast at 9th level, where it becomes permanent (it's also the only one of the three they don't get for free; you have to spend a spell known for Bestow Curse). Hmm, I'm not sure a progressive curse would work here, since it could only apply with a 9th level casting of Bestow Curse.

In the end, this might be best left to custom spells.

I'm also going to give them access to sympathetic magic via an invocation (would have been a base class feature except I already gave them too many of those; full casters generally only get one or two features in T1 and two or so features in T4, with nothing in between, aside from spellcasting and subclass features). Using this invocation, you can craft a doll using a part of a person's body (hair, nail clippings, a bit of blood, etc.) and then target the doll with a spell, passing the spell along to that person. The doll is destroyed after being targeted by a spell. This basically allows remote spellcasting if you can get a hold a few strands of hair or whatever from your target. In the context of something like Flesh to Wood, this could be pretty terrifying. That nobleman who spit on you? Two days later, they just start turning into a tree with no idea why, and you're hundreds of miles away.

Kurt Kurageous
2021-12-02, 02:42 PM
A random aside:
I used the simple translation (petrification, only wood) for a cursed dryad - basically a wood medusa. her swampy lair was surrounded by her victims - her man grove. As an added complication, they could be awakened to act as muscle.

Totally stealing this. Had a swamp witch (reskinned NPC Druid) who is husbanding blood hawks. Now gonna reskin/respell a Dryad and replace Dryad's charm with this and some rider effects as suggested using exhaustion. She just wants to be left alone. Her man-grove is made of of those who persisted.