[3.5] When Is Perform Worthwhile For Non-Bards

[Thurbane]

So, is there many mechanical benefits to pumping up a Perform skill for non-Bards? You can make a few GP performing, I guess...

I know some magic items have a minimum number of ranks to activate them, but is there much else?

Are there feats that turn Perform checks into something else? Prestige class features? Spelldancer can reduce metamagic costs, so there is that.

Looking for official 3.5 only, no PF please. Prefer no Dragon or Dungeon mag, but will look at them on a case by case basis.

No Kalamar, Ravenloft (EttRoG is OK) or Dragonlance (other than campaign setting book) please.

Cheers - T

[Wildstag]

Just off the top of my head, the Battle Dancer in Dragon Compendium uses Perform (and needs to max it out) for their class abilities.

I'll edit in a postscript if I recall more before other's reply.

P.S. The Dervish PrC in Complete Warrior requires Perform (dance) 3 ranks. The primary class feature of the PrC, the Dervish Dane, lasts for one round for every two ranks of Perform (dance) that the character has.

[DrMartin]

Complete Warrior has a few prestige classes that require perform and have abilities tied to it - bladesinger and dervish. It also has a new category of perform (weapon drills) which gets special bonuses for a character base attack bonus and combat feats. It ties in the Gladiator Match rules in the same books, where you can use a perform check to work the crowd and get (small) bonuses / sway them against your foes and cause them (small) penalties.

Shrouded Dance is a perform-based skill trick which allow you get concealment with a move action.

Combat Panache from PH2 gets a special mention for being a Feat that requires three skills with 8 ranks to pick: Bluff, Intimidate and Perform. As other feats from the book it grants three special maneuvers to the characters who picks it, and in a pro display of poor elegance each of those maneuvers link to a skill...Two of them on Bluff, one of them on Intimidate. So perform is just a tax.

Arcane Dilettante, a prestige class with an interestin theme from the Planar Handbook, requires 8 ranks in Perform starting at character 3 (the class has a quite unique tiered system of requirements, which gets progressively harder to fulfill)

[Doctor Despair]

On the note of other classes that need perform: the Spelldancer requires it.

[Zaq]

It's a bit of a pain, but it can be used for one of those bonding rituals in the DMG2 (Ritual of Song, I believe) in order to make yourself a custom item without crafting feats or Ancestral Relic.

[Soranar]

The feat : From Smite to Song requires it and, for a paladin and it's absolutely worth it.

[Saintheart]

Arcane Duelist needs it to qualify, but makes no use of it.

Perform (Weapon Drill) from Complete Warrior makes it partially key off BAB but is pretty useless anyway.

For some reason I thought it could be used as an Intimidate check, but Im AFB and probably wrong.

[Batcathat]

For some reason I thought it could be used as an Intimidate check, but Im AFB and probably wrong.

If this isn't true, it should be. The world needs more heroes who force their way into the villain's hideout by making the guards flee after a particulary scary dance show.

[Anthrowhale]

Not quite your question, but Mystic Wanderer is a good class for spellcasters wanting access to perform as a class skill.

[Wildstag]

If this isn't true, it should be. The world needs more heroes who force their way into the villain's hideout by making the guards flee after a particulary scary dance show.

The various Haka's are basically for that purpose, though more for an opposing group than a hideout.

[Saintheart]

If this isn't true, it should be. The world needs more heroes who force their way into the villain's hideout by making the guards flee after a particulary scary dance show.

Somebody tell this guy about the dance-off to save the universe.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/952bf0774732b17b885a0808289bfab3/tenor.gif

Albeit that was technically a Bluff check, not a Perform (Weapon Drill).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Perform has an almost unlimited number of potential uses, since it's not just "song, dance, instruments, and poetry." Anyone with a high Int, an extra feat they don't have anything else in particular they want to use it for, and a desire to flesh out their character as more than just a 1-dimensional murderhobo (and have it play out in the actual mechanics) could get a LOT of extra Perform skills from Versatile Performer.

Acting, Comedy, Dance, Debate, Etiquette, Fortune-Telling, Juggling, Tea Ceremony, Trick Riding, Trick Shooting, Ventriloquism, and WAY more. Lots of things you can toss into Perform that don't really fit in other places, and they can be used for all sorts of mechanically fun things. If you can't think of ways to use any of those both in and out of combat, I'd be honestly surprised. Tea ceremony combat can be quite interesting and fun, if you're willing to be unconventional about things.

[Quentinas]

Just off the top of my head, the Battle Dancer in Dragon Compendium uses Perform (and needs to max it out) for their class abilities.

I'll edit in a postscript if I recall more before other's reply.

P.S. The Dervish PrC in Complete Warrior requires Perform (dance) 3 ranks. The primary class feature of the PrC, the Dervish Dane, lasts for one round for every two ranks of Perform (dance) that the character has.

The battledancer requires tumble not perform (dance)

The line of feats Dancing with Shadow and Path of Shadow requires Perform (dance ) they are from Races of Eberron
The Sword dancer from Faith and Pantheons ask for 2 types of perform (dance and singing) and even skill focus (perform)
The darksong knight from Champions of Valor can use Perform (dance) instead of bluff to feint and if he has 8 ranks by level 8 he gains a +2 dodge bonus vs Attack of opportunity and a +2 to the attack roll of Spring attack

[ben-zayb]

Epic perform (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#perform)

Exemplar's Persuasive Performance can similarly be used to influence NPC attitudes, though it's also available to other skills.

[Glimbur]

It's also a way to attract extraplanar attention. I cannot think of another method offhand to do that, which is something.

[Saintheart]

It's also a way to attract extraplanar attention. I cannot think of another method offhand to do that, which is something.

It was nice of Robert Johnson to uncover that one for us. Too bad his DM didn't allow him to cast Guidance of the Avatar for his second Perform check.

[Darg]

Slippers of battledancing requires 5 ranks in perform to access the secondary benefits of +2 init and cha to attack and damage.

[Doctor Despair]

It's also a way to attract extraplanar attention. I cannot think of another method offhand to do that, which is something.

Then you just toss in Music of the Gods to Suggest they give you a few divine ranks... :smallwink:

[Harrow]

This answer is super pedantic and likely not very helpful because of that, but you did say "non-Bards" not "no bardic music". There's at least one class, the Heatfire Fanner from an issue of Dragon Magazine, that gives bardic music without technically requiring any Bard levels, subject to the normal Perform restrictions. You also have the Virtuoso from Complete Adventurer which, again, technically doesn't require any Bard levels to enter, and gives a class feature that looks a lot like bardic music, but isn't, that requires ranks in Perform. So if you wanted to play a Monk, Rogue, or Factotum that gets bardic music or a similar ability, but insisted on no Bard levels, you have options. Not a ton of options, and it would really be better to just play a Bard, but it's not nothing.

[Thurbane]

So as well as what's been mentioned, here's some other stuff I found:


Art of Fascination feat (OA): Make a perform check opposed by a Will save to fascinate a target.
Celebrant of Sharess (PGtF) [awful, awful PrC]: Fascinate & Sanctuary
Divine Prankster (RoS) PrC: Comedic Performance
Troubadour of Stars (BoED) PrC: Song of Hope
Virtuoso (CAd) PrC: Persuasive Song & Jarring Song

[AvatarVecna]

Downtime money. Because of how the formulas for moneymaking work for the three Money skills, each has a range in which they will tend to be your best option for making money by default: Profession for anything below +11, Perform for +11 to +56, and Craft for +57 and upwards. There are things you can do on the crafting side of things that change up these ranges - I'm assuming bog-standard crafting where you craft for 1/3 materials costs, and sell for 1/2 market price, for a total profit of 1/6 market price. If you join a guild and you're selling for full price (minus the guild's cut), or you're an Apprentice crafting for 30% instead of 1/3 in materials, or both of those things, Craft gets much better. Additionally, Perform has a slight action advantage in two ways: firstly, Craft and Profession checks are weekly, as opposed to daily. But also, Perform checks don't necessarily represent a full day of performance, they can be just a few hours in the evening. This makes it much easier to get Perform money even if your games tend to experience time crunch: as long as you've got a few hours to eat in public, you can make a bit of money performing for those present.

Also, I don't know if this is quite what you meant, but the Cloak Dance feat has 2 ranks in Perform (Dance) as a prereq and lets you give yourself concealment or even total concealment out in the open. It doesn't really use Perform, but it requires it?

[Thurbane]

Yeah, there's a ton of feats and PrCs that have Perform as a req, might make a note of them later if I get a chance.

[Dimers]

Isn't there a Spell Compendium spell that substitutes Perform for Concentration? AFB at the moment.

[AvatarVecna]

Feats requiring Perform that don't need Bardic Music:

Arcane Flourish: spend spell slots for bonuses to Perform checks.

Combat Panache: "Three maneuvers" feat for swashbucklers and people who fight dirty.

Dancing Blade: Weapon Focus for rapier that stacks with Weapon Focus but only on full attacks...eh???

Dancing With Shadows: "Three maneuvers" feat for defensive fighting. Kalashtar-only.

Dragonsong: Gives a slight bonus to Perform checks, and to Save DCs of song/poetry abilities that are mind-affecting. Can technically apply to things that aren't bardic music but...yeah.

Jester's Magic: +1 CL for one specific spell per spell level.

Path Of Shadows: Can roll Perform in place of Concentration when casting/manifesting defensively. Kalashtar-only.

Shrouded Dance: Skill Trick. Move action and DC 20 Hide check gives you concealment until the start of your next turn.

Versatile Performer: Have your best perform skill give you a bunch of alternate perform skills too.

[daremetoidareyo]

Use it to make money in a troupe using favored in guild to double your earnings but use it not on a one night performance, but for income using the business rules in dmg 2

[Thurbane]

Isn't there a Spell Compendium spell that substitutes Perform for Concentration? AFB at the moment.

Undersong (Bard 1): indeed, you can use a Perform check in place of a Concentration check.

There's also Fugue (Bard 4), that uses a Perform check to determine what happens to the target.

Song of Festering Death (Bard 2) has a DC 20 Perform check required for the spell to work.

Being that they are all Bard only spells, you'd need a Ring of Spell Storing, Wyrm Wizard or similar for a non-Bard to utilise them, though.

[Seward]

Mostly when it entertains you to have a character that can put on a performance. It can earn a small amount of coin.

When you get an ability driven by perform for free as part of the rest of your build is the optimization reason. eg, in Pathfinder there is a dervish archetype of bard that lets you use dex for both to-hit and damage as a L1 ability - if you use a scimitar. You are taking no other levels of bard, but you still have a good ability activated with a move action that uses perform-dance plus a couple of the other basic bardsongs. Some random feats and non-bard classes in various sourcebooks might also have perform as a requisite.

[Thurbane]

Found an older thread here, too: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?578462-3-5-Uses-for-Perform-WITHOUT-Bardic-Music

[Wildstag]

There's one aspect that isn't particularly mechanical but this response plays into it somewhat.

If playing in a game that allows for downtime, Performance checks are the better alternative if playing a character with a higher Charisma modifier than Intelligence modifier.

Additionally, Perform checks more explicitly detail attracting the attention of powerful and/or wealthy people in the setting. Craft checks could do the same thing but Profession seems like it'd be limiting in that regard.

Basically, it gives an outlet for players to engage with the setting, though honestly any skill could do that. With Perform, you just do it a tad bit easier.

P.S. Profession sucks though. Like, at best you're just "temp employee of the month".

[ben-zayb]

The Dvati also has that weird combo that targets will save with a DC based on a Perform (sing) check. On failure, they get a +1 to either attack roll or AC against that creature for a round.

Not sure if Dragon Compendium is accepted 3.5 resource in your table, though it's accepted in this subforum's contests.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Not sure if this one counts, since you still need at least one level of Bard to qualify, but the Stormsinger PrC will progress any arcane class and uses Perform to determine the damage of the lightning bolts you can call down, as well as being required for unlocking new Stormsinger music effects.

[Thurbane]

Magic item reqs/checks -


Anstruth Harp: Perform (string instruments) 12 ranks
Canaith Mandolin: Perform (string instruments) 8 ranks
Cli Lyre: DC 14 Perform (string instruments) 10 ranks
Doss Lute: Perform (string instruments) 6 ranks
Drums of Marching: DC 15 Perform (percussion instruments) check
Fochlucan Bandore: Perform (string instruments) 2 ranks
Harp of Charming: DC 14 Perform (string instruments) check
Lyre of Building: DC 18 Perform (string instruments) check
Mac-Fuirmith Cithern: Perform (string instruments) 4 ranks
Ollamh Harp: Perform (string instruments) 14 ranks
Pipes of Frenzied Revelry (relic): DC 25 Perform (wind instruments) check
Pipes of Haunting: DC 15 Perform (wind instruments) check
Pipes of the Sewers: DC 10/15 Perform (wind instruments) check
Pipes of Sounding: Perform (wind instruments) any ranks

[daremetoidareyo]

An alp horn covers 1d10 miles: you should be able to collect tips from an entire county with that