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View Full Version : Player Help Starting Tomb of Annihilation,need help with class and other choices.



Munhe
2021-11-24, 06:45 AM
Hi everyone, as the title says we are starting ToA campaign and i wanted to gauge peoples thoughts on class and character design for this campaign. There will be 4 players, Wizard, Bard, Fighter(battlemaster) and me. I kind of settled on cleric, not sure which domain though. I envisioned him as a heavy armor 2hander wielding cleric. Heavy armor means either tempest, twilight or war, right? I know that primarily clerics are casters and rely on their spells and need wisdom for it to be effective. I am not trying to min max to the fullest but i dont want to be completely useless in the game.
I heard some things about this campaign , although i am not trying to meta game just want to be ready for the campaign.

1.I read online that heavy armor is useless and can only cause trouble? exhaustion and dehydratation are a problem.
2.Can i be in melee without heavy armor and survive what is to come?
3. is it okay to be melee 2h wielder as a cleric and which subclass would allow that?
4.i guess radiant damage would be nice but which subclasses get it or is it only on some spells that are universal for all clerics?
5.are Chult specific backgrounds usefull or nah?
6.any other helpful tips or class changes that you would consider good please do, but without meta gaming and spoiling(paladin is forbiden for me :D )\

thank you all in advance

KorvinStarmast
2021-11-24, 08:41 AM
ToA planning
Nature Cleric gets Heavy armor also. Given how much jungle there is in Chult, that might be a good idea, Nature Cleric, but I'd like to warn you that wearing heavy armor in the hot jungle may detract from your enjoyment.
My suggestion:

I read online that heavy armor is useless and can only cause trouble? exhaustion and dehydratation are a problem. That can crop up in Chult.

2.Can I be in melee without heavy armor and survive what is to come? Yes. My Gloom Stalker Ranger (vHuman with Medium Armor Master feat at level 1) did just fine with Rapier and Shield.

3. is it okay to be melee 2h wielder as a cleric and which subclass would allow that?
Tempest Cleric offers expertise with Martial weapons so that you can wield not only versatile weapons like a warhammer, but also a maul or great sword or great axe.

4. I guess radiant damage would be nice but which subclasses get it or is it only on some spells that are universal for all clerics? Sun Soul monk gets radiant damage. All clerics can start with Sacred Flame. (It's OK versus Zombies, but I cannot sing its praises. I have been calling it suck red flame since 2014 due to how goblins seem to always dodge it thanks to the dex save. :smallyuk:

5. Are Chult specific backgrounds useful or nah? Only one of our players had that, yes it was useful, but it wasn't strictly necessary.

6. Any other helpful tips or class changes that you would consider good please do, but without meta gaming and spoiling(paladin is forbiden for me :D )
There will be 4 players, Wizard, Bard, Fighter(battlemaster) and me. \
I'd suggest a gloomstalker ranger, or a Hunter Ranger. Problem is heavy armor. Are you really wedded to that?

I envisioned him as a heavy armor 2hander wielding cleric. Heavy armor means either tempest, twilight or war, right? I know that primarily clerics are casters and rely on their spells and need wisdom for it to be effective. I am not trying to min max to the fullest but i dont want to be completely useless in the game. Nature Cleric doesn't have martial weapon proficiency, so your instinct to go War Cleric is a good one.
For the first five levels War Cleric does OK with melee. You go beyond that and the spells begin to get a bit more important. But you can still whack stuff.

Experience: Being able to turn undead in ToA is handy. Very handy. Our nature cleric used that with some frequency.

First Suggestion: War or Tempest since you want to whack at things with a martial weapon and you want Heavy armor. I am personally biased to Tempest Cleric, based on past experience and the domain spell fog cloud (which is one of my favorite spells in the game). We used fog cloud a number of times to get out of battles that we realized were over our heads.

ToA is a little bit sandboxy as a style of play: the random encounters, checked three times per day, can easily be over the party's power level. Your party needs to be smart about when to fight and when not to. That was my experience.

Note: all clerics get guiding bolt. As long as you hit with it, your allies get a follow up attack with advantage. Your Fighter will love you for that.

Second Suggestion: Play a Gloom Stalker Ranger, vHuman. I took medium armor master and archery fighting style. Outdoors I could either melee (rapier and shield) or kill stuff with a longbow, Indoors, I was decent in melee.
With archery fighting style's flat +2 to hit you don't really need to boost dex beyond 16, and that's as far as medium armor mastery takes you. The extra domain spells are handy but not OP.

But, that means no radiant damage and no turn undead. :smallconfused:

Third Suggestion: throw all caution to the wind and go with a Monk, Way of the Sun Soul. vHuman, feat Resilient Wisdom. Let's you start with 16 Dex and 16 Wisdom and proficiency in Wisdom Saves. :smallsmile: Your two handed weapon can be, initially, your quarter staff, you can take the Criminal/Spy background for thieves tools, and at level 3 your radiant damage on demand is more effective than Sacred flame. And it gets better as the game progresses. Not tanky, though.

Kvess
2021-11-24, 08:46 AM
I DMed a Tomb of Annihilation game, which recently completed. It was a blast! I would encourage you not to look anything up, because there’s a lot of interesting elements that could be spoiled. With that in mind, here are my answers to your questions.

IIRC, the penalty for wearing heavy armor only comes into play if you don’t have enough water. This happened exactly once to my players, who were very cautious about carrying extra rain catchers, and as a cleric you can create all the water you need in a pinch. That said, NPCs will look at you oddly and your character will feel miserable wearing heavy armor in a jungle, even if there aren’t any mechanical effects.

You can absolutely survive the jungle without heavy armor. Only one of the player characters in my campaign was killed by a random encounter in the jungle (though NPCs had less luck). It’s also possible to have a decent AC if you boost dexterity and wear light or medium armor. Keep in mind that anything that’s going to be a significant threat to you is going to have a decent attack bonus anyway.

As far as I’m aware, there’s nothing stopping you from casting and wielding a great weapon. Any domain that grants martial weapons will essentially let you use any weapon you want.

Sacred Flame is the go-to cantrip for radiant damage. Guiding Bolt is a low level spell that deals radiant damage and provides advantage on the next hit.

The Chult-specific backgrounds are useful if the DM remembers that you have them.

If you’re looking for skills to invest in as a Cleric, Perception and Survival wouldn’t hurt.

Munhe
2021-11-24, 10:54 AM
No no i am not looking to spoil, just dont want to for example have heavy armor and have to die because of it ,but your explanation clears it up just keep enough water.
I am kind of set on heavy armor cleric since thats what i made in my head :) dont wanna play monk, and since our bard and wizwrd have support spells like fairy fire and little hut and such i am gonna go bonkers on the frontline, well how is dexterity gonna work on medium armor cleric :/ i have the feeling that wisdom is quite important, but what about heavy armor and heavy armor master feat for minus 3 dmg? How useful would that be? Well i wanted radiant dmg because i understood there is good amount of undead
What are some AC boosters to cleric? If i am 2 hander? Both medium and heavy

Kvess
2021-11-24, 11:22 AM
No no i am not looking to spoil, just dont want to for example have heavy armor and have to die because of it ,but your explanation clears it up just keep enough water.
I am kind of set on heavy armor cleric since thats what i made in my head :) dont wanna play monk, and since our bard and wizwrd have support spells like fairy fire and little hut and such i am gonna go bonkers on the frontline, well how is dexterity gonna work on medium armor cleric :/ i have the feeling that wisdom is quite important, but what about heavy armor and heavy armor master feat for minus 3 dmg? How useful would that be? Well i wanted radiant dmg because i understood there is good amount of undead
What are some AC boosters to cleric? If i am 2 hander? Both medium and heavy
As a caster, you generally want to prioritize your casting stat. Wisdom will make your spells and channel divinity more reliable, which tend to be important. In the long run, your spellcasting will be more useful than swinging around a large weapon.

If you really want to boost your AC as a cleric, take Forge Cleric. They get an ability, Blessing of the Forge, which allows you to give a weapon or armor a +1 bonus. The only downside is they don't get martial weapons. Your AC would also be higher (by 2) if you were using a shield instead of a 2-handed weapon.

The main benefit of two-handed weapons, IMHO, is the Great Weapon Master feat, which I wouldn't really recommend for you, as it competes with Ability Score Increases and other Feats you are interested in. Speaking broadly, Heavy Armor Master tends to help most when you're taking multiple, weaker attacks from non-magical sources. It tends to be really good early in a campaign and trails off in usefulness as monsters hit harder and cast spells more.

Clerics do get access to a spell called Shield of Faith that can boost the target's AC by 2. The smart thing to do is boost the fighter's AC and let them take hits. If you cast the spell on yourself, get hit and lose concentration, you lose Shield of Faith, which means you get less milage out of the spell.

Keep in mind that AC is only one form of defence. You are playing on a team, so you should rely on your fighter, bard and wizard allies to shape encounters in a way that reduces the number of enemies attacking you at once. If enemies get close enough to attack you while you are concentrating on a spell, your allies are not doing their job. Your job shouldn't be to survive encounters single-handedly.

Munhe
2021-11-24, 11:58 AM
As a caster, you generally want to prioritize your casting stat. Wisdom will make your spells and channel divinity more reliable, which tend to be important. In the long run, your spellcasting will be more useful than swinging around a large weapon.

If you really want to boost your AC as a cleric, take Forge Cleric. They get an ability, Blessing of the Forge, which allows you to give a weapon or armor a +1 bonus. The only downside is they don't get martial weapons. Your AC would also be higher (by 2) if you were using a shield instead of a 2-handed weapon.

The main benefit of two-handed weapons, IMHO, is the Great Weapon Master feat, which I wouldn't really recommend for you, as it competes with Ability Score Increases and other Feats you are interested in. Speaking broadly, Heavy Armor Master tends to help most when you're taking multiple, weaker attacks from non-magical sources. It tends to be really good early in a campaign and trails off in usefulness as monsters hit harder and cast spells more.

Clerics do get access to a spell called Shield of Faith that can boost the target's AC by 2. The smart thing to do is boost the fighter's AC and let them take hits. If you cast the spell on yourself, get hit and lose concentration, you lose Shield of Faith, which means you get less milage out of the spell.

Keep in mind that AC is only one form of defence. You are playing on a team, so you should rely on your fighter, bard and wizard allies to shape encounters in a way that reduces the number of enemies attacking you at once. If enemies get close enough to attack you while you are concentrating on a spell, your allies are not doing their job. Your job shouldn't be to survive encounters single-handedly.

well i was planning on being on the front lines, and 2hander is kind of cool to me, i know i will have to rely on spell casting since only form of double attack i have is spiritual weapon,whereas fighters get double attack and later triple one,well GWM would be nice for that hammer, +10 is amazing, i know booming blade would be cool to have but i cant get them unless i take a Magic initiate feat right? and i would like to have sentinel which would result in many attacks of opportunity and still i need good AC to be able to survive, not sure how many magical damage there is in ToA but i am guessing its not all goblins and orcs. Are there any feats that you would recommend for a 2hander cleric? prolly tempest domain by the looks of it. i talked to DM he said forget about min maxing , no module is made to be played with mathematically strongest characters. I also thought about aasimar for AoE racial spells

Kvess
2021-11-24, 12:38 PM
To be clear, I’m not telling you to build a perfectly optimized character. You asked how you can have a high AC and wield a heavy weapon as a cleric, and I suggested that there are trade offs to both of those paths. What you do is your business.

What I am concerned about is it seems like you’re more interested in your character surviving than how you can support the party. No matter what options you pick, you can’t complete this adventure on your own. Your allies are going to be relying on you to support them, and you will be relying on them to support you.

I would recommend thinking about how you can accomplish that as a cleric before you think about how many times you can swing a sword (twice, a limited number of times per day, if you have the War Domain) or how high you can boost your own AC.

Munhe
2021-11-24, 12:54 PM
To be clear, I’m not telling you to build a perfectly optimized character. You asked how you can have a high AC and wield a heavy weapon as a cleric, and I suggested that there are trade offs to both of those paths. What you do is your business.

What I am concerned about is it seems like you’re more interested in your character surviving than how you can support the party. No matter what options you pick, you can’t complete this adventure on your own. Your allies are going to be relying on you to support them, and you will be relying on them to support you.

I would recommend thinking about how you can accomplish that as a cleric before you think about how many times you can swing a sword (twice, a limited number of times per day, if you have the War Domain) or how high you can boost your own AC.

well support spells :) if i went twilight it would be fairy fire but i guess bless and guiding bolt and similar will have to do