How to handle counterspell?

[Darth Credence]

My campaign is now at the point where counterspell matters.
The wizard was not available last week, so another player was controlling the character. That player said to counterspell when the enemy started to cast, but we found out that while the wizard had counterspell, they didn't have it prepared, so nothing was done at the time.
I know how the spell works, and I know that by the rule in Xanathar's, the caster will not know what spell they are countering. I like this as a method, and it is what I am going with. My current plan is that if I am casting a spell, I will give a description of spellcasting, attempting to describe the same spell roughly the same way across different tellings, to give a hint to the players. I will then give a silent three count, allowing anyone to use their reaction if they'd like. After the three count, the spell is cast.

My players are fine with this. They have also told me they trust that I will not metagame counterspell against them, but I still want a method that will let me choose when to cast what spells, and how to counterspell, that does not leave me an option to metagame. This is what I am looking to refine. My first thought is to write out a document for each spellcaster, covering their particular method of casting. For example, there may be some that will start with a cantrip, and follow with a bonus action spell, in the first round, rather than just going with a big damage spell at first. Some might go big initially, but if they are countered, come back with smaller ones until the threat of counterspell is gone. Some might counterspell everything, some might wait until they are severely hurt before using it, some might only use it if an enemy has been knocked down to prevent healing of the character.

This seems like a lot of work, though. Am I overthinking this? Do you other DMs use NPCs that can counterspell, and do you have a plan for when they use it? Does anyone plan for the enemy having counterspell, and how they will best try to force them to burn spell slots? Would it matter if it was specifically called out as a wizard's duel (because I have one of those coming up)?

Thanks for any thoughts.

[Chad.e.clark]

I have primarily DM'd only Tier1 games, so Counterspell has been a non-issue, but they most fair and fun way for both DM and players I can think of is as follows.

Use spell cards.

1)Player or DM places the spell card face down on the table where all players and DM can see it and announces "I cast a spell."

2)Anyone having an appropriate reaction must announce it while card is still face down.

3)Once the card is flipped face up, they spell is cast and the spell is resloved.

4) Reactions that could interupt the casting must be made before the spell card is revealed.



This would make it a double blind scenario for all parties, both caster and counterspeller. Caster commits to the spell before knowing if their spell slot is wasted. Counterspeller commits their spell slot before knowing what exactly they are countering.

[Darth Credence]

Spell cards! Obvious answer that I didn't even think of. Thank you kindly.

[Gtdead]

I think you are overthinking this. You already have perfected the communication part which is the most important.

Speaking as a player: Juking counterspells is a valid tactic for an archmage that has considerable experience dueling other casters and teaching combat classes. However the player shouldn't really care about what he counterspelled. It doesn't matter if it's a cantrip or meteor swarm, the important thing is that the caster never got to cast in that turn and this alone is usually worth a level 3 slot.

In addition, the player can make the counterspell reliable by Counterspelling reactions like Shield or enemy Counterspells. If your fighter wants to pop actionsurge to kill the archmage, the best thing you can do is counterspell his shield.

Counterspelling is a very involved process. Initiative order, mind games and risk vs reward considerations all take place at the same time.

[greenstone]

I worried that counterspell sucks the pleasure out of the player of a caster. They do one thing, cast spells, and the counterspell is the GM slapping them with a wet towel and saying "NO, you DON"T get to do your ONE thing!"

My players tell me I am overthinking and they are OK with it, and after all they get to do the same to my monsters.

The ruling we came up with is that someone at the table says, "Casty McCasterface is casting a spell." then stops and silently counts to five. If no-one speaks up to use their reaction to counterspell (or identify) the spell, then it goes off.

[GeoffWatson]

It can also suck for the DM. The Big Bad caster never gets to cast anything, because every spell is countered.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Fights in D&D-land are over very quickly. Usually just a few rounds. And casters know this. And know that other casters know this. Which means that they can presume that any spell cast is one with intent to do bad things. Thus, my basic policy is "NPC casters with counterspell will attempt to counterspell any spell they see, assuming they haven't used their reaction and/or applicable slots already. NPC casters will rarely, if ever, upcast counterspell if they have higher level slots (because they too want to have those for proactive effects."

Player wants to juke it by casting something worthless? Sure. But that means they spent their turn doing something worthless. If that means someone else on the team gets to do something bigger, that's fine--that's just teamwork. NPCs will rarely, if ever, attempt the same thing. Only in the case of a dedicated, coordinated team with a dedicated counterspell mage will this be an issue.

As far as trust and implementation--I do it like you do. "X is casting a spell <pause> <if not counterspelled, description and effects>". Heck, I generally even allow "wait, I wanted to counterspell that" interjections as long as no other actions (beyond that single spell) need to be rolled back to do so.

[Greywander]

This seems like it's really two questions: players Counterspelling NPCs, and NPCs Counterspelling players.

For the former, one way to deal with it is to just accept it. The players invested build resources and expended spell slots for Counterspell, let them have their cool moment of blocking an enemy caster. You might worry that this makes it too easy, and could get boring for the players. That's a valid concern, but it's also fine to have them fight a nub caster who seems genuinely shocked that they've been Counterspelled. Throw them an easy fight dressed up as a hard fight every now and then, to make them feel like badasses. Foiling a villain's plan to the point the the villain is left speechless with their mouth hanging open is a good feeling, so long as it isn't happening all the time.

Now, there are some things you can do to improve on this. First is to not tell them the spell being cast (you did mention this in the OP, but it is a common issue at a lot of tables where the DM simply declares that caster X is casting Y spell). Instead, describe the components of the spell. You can't identify a spell except using a reaction, but they can see what components the spell is using. Is the caster muttering an incantation? Are they waving their hands around and making strange gestures? Are they using a wand or staff, or pulling out weird items from a pouch? This can give the players a clue as to what spell they might be casting. For example, a recurring antagonist might make a getaway by casting Dimension Door, a spell with only verbal components. The next time they encounter that antagonist and he starts incanting a spell without using other components, there's good reason to suspect he might be casting Dimension Door again, and thus a Counterspell might prevent his escape.

Second is to pay attention to range. Counterspell has a range of 60 feet. Now, your NPC might not know that a PC has Counterspell, and they might not know which PC has Counterspell, but they can probably make an educated guess (also, you can have them guess wrong! this also makes for fun moments where the players feel like they've outsmarted the villain). You can have them focus on using spells with a range greater than 60 feet, or self-cast spells, and staying out of range of Counterspell. If you have a sorcerer in the party who took the Distant Spell metamagic and has Counterspell, this can be a chance for them to make that eclectic combo shine.

Third is reaction baiting. By getting the Counterspeller to use their reaction on something else, such as Shield or Absorb Elements, you can cast freely without fear of being Counterspelled. This is difficult to do with just one person, so we'll have to assume that the enemy caster has minions or body guards of some kind that can get the PCs to use their reactions. Some spells and effects can even prevent a character from using reactions, or from acting at all. You can also just have more NPC casters than you have PC Counterspellers, which can make the use of Counterspell more tactically interesting, since you're no longer able to Counterspell every spell, but have to decide which of several spells should be Counterspelled.

Fourth is line of sight. Counterspell requires you to see the target. Now, if they can't see you, then you probably also can't see them, but you might be able to work out exceptions to this (e.g. an NPC caster with Darkness/Devil's Sight, or blindsight and Fog Cloud, or Greater Invisibility, etc.). Even if you can't see them, not every spell requires sight. Also, those only apply if you're targeting the Counterspeller. If you're targeting anyone else, you can just move behind an obstruction so that the Counterspeller can't see you, while you can see your target. Such an obstruction won't always be available, however, but if one is, then you can make use of it. Or you can bring some method of creating your own obstruction, like a larger NPC.

Fifth is splitting the party. A conniving villain would try to split the casters from the martials and catch them each in different types of traps. Without their caster support, an enemy caster wouldn't need to worry about getting Counterspelled. Without their martial support, nothing stands in the way of a minion swarm from just rushing the PC casters and swarming over them.

What about going the other way? An NPC Counterspelling a PC? Well, I'm a Combat as War guy, so I say what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If it's fair when the PCs do it, then it's fair when the NPCs do it, and vice versa. I think PhoenixPhyre is on the right track with the "Counterspell everything" mentality. Any spell is potentially dangerous, so it's logical that an NPC would Counterspell any spell being cast. But often there is more than one caster in the party, so you might end up with a similar case to the multiple NPC casters above, only reversed, so now the NPC has to decide which PC caster should be Counterspelled. I'd try to decide this ahead of time, since a lot of players simply declare what spell they're casting, and you don't want that to influence what the NPC does when they shouldn't know. Are they going to Counterspell the guy with a holy symbol and medium armor? Or the guy in a robe with a wizard staff? Reaction spells are also often good options for Counterspelling, no matter who is casting them, since they're often defensive spells and only cast when that character is about to get screwed hard.

[Ashe]

I worried that counterspell sucks the pleasure out of the player of a caster. They do one thing, cast spells, and the counterspell is the GM slapping them with a wet towel and saying "NO, you DON"T get to do your ONE thing!"

My players tell me I am overthinking and they are OK with it, and after all they get to do the same to my monsters.

I would agree with your players. Having your spells countered makes it feel like you have flaws as a caster and can't always rely on your big "I Win" button, and have to plan accordingly.

[pwykersotz]

I would agree with your players. Having your spells countered makes it feel like you have flaws as a caster and can't always rely on your big "I Win" button, and have to plan accordingly.

It's funny to hard disagree with this, since I support the concept of your argument so much. I ban Counterspell with extreme prejudice. I have a severe dislike of the emergent gameplay of having the option available. But I recognize I am not in the majority on that opinion.


But yeah, spell cards or waiting a few seconds between saying "I cast a spell" and resolving its effects are both perfect options.

[dafrca]

I ban Counterspell with extreme prejudice. .... But I recognize I am not in the majority on that opinion.
Counterspell is one of the things I didn't like when it was added and didn't like how it was designed. So I too do not use it.

However I am open to hearing an alternative mechanic if one is offered. :smallsmile:

[stoutstien]

Really depends on the feel of game you are going for but as a DM I rarely use it for NPCs. Dispel magic on the other hands...

[Keravath]

I think you are a bit too worried about it. The way to avoid meta gaming too much is to just add a pause between the "cast a spell" step and the "the spell being cast is X" step. During the pause, characters or NPCs can jump in to use their reaction to counterspell if they wish.

If the DM and players trust each other then that is all it takes. The player or DM states the spell and level being cast AFTER the counterspell notification step and then the counterspell effect is resolved if someone cast it.

If there are trust issues (ie the player or DM likes to change things on the fly and only casts a real spell when it isn't counterspelled) then use spell cards or writing down the spell being cast. It takes a bit more time but removes the trust issue entirely.

As far as coming up with a strategy for NPCs. I don't think it is really needed. As mentioned, combat is typically so short, that most NPCs will use a spell slot for counterspell without much hesitation unless they are low on slots or need it for something else. However, keep in mind that counterspell uses their reaction which the character might prefer to use for the shield spell if opponents are close to melee range - so there are times when an NPC needs to think about it.

Finally, keep in mind that if the BBEG casts a spell, the party wizard counterspells then the BBEG can still counterspell the counterspell - it can cost everyone extra spell slots but there is a decent chance the spell still gets cast. Even cases with two characters/NPCs with counterspell can drain a 3rd level slot from everyone but still not prevent the original spell from being cast. It is a spell slot draining mini-game :).

--

One more point to keep in mind in terms of spell identification is that they may not all cast exactly the same way.

It is possible that every Fireball spell uses exactly the same verbal, somatic and material components. However, this isn't stated anywhere in the rules and since a wizard has to spend significant effort translating spells from other wizard's spell books - I tend to think that each spell has some similar elements but every wizard casts them a bit differently. Different words, sounds or hand gestures for example. The goal of a spell is to manipulate the weave of magic to produce a physical effect - if there was only ONE exact set of sounds/gestures/components that could produce that effect then they would never (or very rarely) be discovered. This variation would be my explanation for why you can't just glance at a creature casting a spell and know what they are casting. It also means that seeing one person cast fireball might not give you much insight into another person casting the same spell. The only RAW we have on spell identification are the rules in XGtE where a character can use their reaction to study a spell being cast then make an arcana check to determine whether they recognize it or not.