More Bleach!?

[danzibr]

Somehow I totally missed this, but there was a new Bleach "chapter" a couple months back (No Breaths From Hell), picks up right where chapter 686 left off. It's unclear moving forward how frequently chapters will come out.

I wonder how far out this was planned. Apparently Kubo said from early on he wanted to do a Hell arc.

He did, I believe, plan out the whole real-Zangetsu thing from early on.

I'm excited for it. I didn't like the *whole* Yhwach arc too much because he introduced a ton of characters... it looks like this time we'll see a return of a bunch of old characters instead.

[Rater202]

Yeah, I only recently found out about this myself...

Is there any word about the anime adaption of the Blood wAr Arc? We were told that was coming and then nothing.

Regarding the chapterYeah, turns out that the afterlife in Bleach sucks even worse. If your power level is too high when you die in soul society you can't break down and reincarnate properly so you get sent straight to Hell to solve the issue.

I wonder, if this leads to more chapters... Or another novel, or something... There are a lot of sympathetic villains who died, and Grans didn't exactly have the gates of hell appear behind him. With the revel that Hell isn't fair I wonder if we'll see the likes of Coyote Stark and Lillinette. Or Ulquiorra?

As an aside, did anyone manage to read or look into the Novels?

[Anteros]

Bleach's quality dropped steadily over the course of the run, and it was pretty bad towards the end. Hopefully taking a break helped Kubo recharge creatively. I'll wait on it and see how it goes though.

[Rater202]

Hopefully he has editors that... Edit, instead of forcing him to ignore his outline and either blitz through things without explaining them or else spend way to damn long on an arc.

Like the editors he had early on were good and helped him with some stuff... But after a while he just had people who wanted him to cater to their tastes and damn the effect on story quality.

[Psyren]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLrKJ1JTXvc

Per Super Eyepatch Wolf, Kubo's problem was that he found plots boring and wanted to do character designs instead. I can kind of see that in the later works.

An arc that un-wastes some of his more compelling villains that were unceremoniously (or even ceremoniously) tossed aside is right up my alley.

[ben-zayb]

This time, on Bleach: fight an organization related to or have interest in Rukia Orihime Chad Uryuu Renji

I don't mind, really. Mayuri still looks disgustingly interesting and may possibly meet Szayel again. I always wanted to see Ukitake's capabilities as a senior member of SS. Being a denizen of Hell, possibly even an elite one, puts him in a collision course against his buddy Kyoraku, who's now the commander. Hopefully this is more "Bleach, Part X" and less "Kazui: the Next Generation".

There's been a recent resurgence of interest in Kubo's works for the past two years, with Burn the Witch being released last year and this bonus chapter released this year. There was also news last year about a supposed continuation of the anime for the Thousand Year Blood War Arc.

For future chapters, I'm on board with Kubo being the illustrator with someone else taking the reigns of writing. That should also give him enough time to work on backgrounds. I'll give Kubo credit that the basic premise of his arcs can be very interesting, like this last chapter, but the eventual execution leaves much to be desired.

Bleach became very (or even more) repetitive after Soul Society, honestly. That rushed final few chapters rival the last few episodes of The Promised Neverland Season 2 anime in pacing. I've read people being up numerous explanations for that, with Kubo's deteriorating health being the most understandable reason.

[Rater202]

Deteriorating health, bad editors, being given deadlines to get everything finished by a certain point, and in general feelings of depression and anxiety caused by that pressure.

Bleach only got finished becuase Kubo got a letter from a dying kid who said that waiting for the next chapter of Bleach was giving him to motivation to see things through to the end instead of just giving up.

And then he got death threats by people who were pissed off that Ichiruki wasn't canon becuase god forbid that the grown woman and the fifteen-year-old boy not get together. (That, I blame on the anime staff though. They added Ichiruki subext, up to and including altering scenes from the manga to add it. In the manga there was no sexual tensionbetween them whatsoever.)

Kubo had a general outline of where he wanted the series to go by the time of the Soul Society Arc and was ultimately forced to ignore it for reasons—it's common knowledge that the reason the Hueco Mundo arc was so bloated was becuase his editors wanted him to focus more on the Arrancar. I've also heard that he oringally intended to put more focus on Ichigo's human friends and for them to play more into the plot, and a rumor that the Lost AGent Arc was supposed to be before the rescue Orihime Arc.

At the very least, he needs editors that help him tell the story he wants and a schedule that doesn't over-stress him or force him to rush, but looking at Can't Fear Your Own World...

I mean, he told a friend of his what some of his plans were, the friend was inspired and asked if he could write something on that, so they brainstormed an outline together then the friend wrote the novel with Kubo proofreading. And it's good! So maybe something like that for th manga proper could work.

[DeadMech]

the grown woman

This as a description for Rukia made me laugh too much. On the one hand I completely agree that the woman who's god knows how old and the highschool boy getting together is a whole can of worms.

On the other hand this is the woman who draws bunnies with the artistic skill of a four year old and is probably something around four and a half feet tall.

[Rater202]

This as a description for Rukia made me laugh too much. On the one hand I completely agree that the woman who's god knows how old and the highschool boy getting together is a whole can of worms.

On the other hand this is the woman who draws bunnies with the artistic skill of a four year old and is probably something around four and a half feet tall.

She's considered an adult in soul society.

And her official height is 4'10'', which is the exact cut-off point for being considered a little person. And her proportions match up with certain forms of dwarfism.

She's not a kid. She's just small. Note that she is canonically paired with Renji, who is coded as an adult. As is everyone else in the Gotei 13 except for like 4 people. One of whom is later revealed to be a piece of a grown man's soul.

...No, seriously. Zaraki can manifest the form of his Zanpakuto spirit instinctively and without effort despite not being able to hear her and she herself is a complete Shinigami complete with her own unique Zanpakuto... And according to Kubo on Social Media, Yachiru's physical form is specifically the manifested form of Zaraki's Bankai, as Nozaroshi she's a grown woman.(He explicitly compares it to how the Quincy part of Ichigo's power is a middle-aged man as part of Zangetsu but a teenager as part of Tensa Zangetsu.)

That says interesting things about Zaraki.

[Psyren]

There is another kid in the Gotei 13 technically (Hitsugaya). Or at least he's coded as one despite being one of the more mature members, Bleach tends to lean into the Really 700 Years Old (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ReallySevenHundredYearsOld) trope so it gets wonky.

With that said I'm not an IchiRuki shipper by any means, yeah I picked up on some tension/chemistry between them early on but her backstory with Renji made it pretty clear to me what her OTP was meant to be.

[BloodSquirrel]

Kubo is a good writer when you hand him a blank slate and ask for a relatively constrained, short-run story. He doesn't do well at all with long-term planning, isn't good at character arcs that run over multiple storylines, and can't manage complexity at all. He definitely needs an editor with some discipline.

The TYBW was all over the place, littered with retcons and dropped story threads, full of weird pacing issues, and full of characters that Kubo just couldn't figure out what to do with. For all of the claims of it being rushed, it certainly didn't suffer from a lack of page count. Those pages were just mostly wasted on indecisive plotting and way too many fights between minor characters and repetitive, uninteresting villains. Meanwhile, Ichigo didn't get a single major fight in the entire arc until the end, where he kept getting his thunder stolen over and over again and barely got to do anything.

If we're going to get another story arc, I really, really hope he drops about 90% of the cast, many of whom are one-note characters who have outlived their interestingness. Byakuya and Kenpachi were really cool as antagonists in the Soul Society arc, but there just isn't much to either character, and seeing them fight yet another throw-away villain doesn't add anything to the story. The Vizard... just never went anywhere. Kubo got bored of them, and they got relegated to secondary status among the Shinigami. We need to focus on a smaller group of protagonists and we need some real emotional stakes and development for them.

[Psyren]

Byakuya honestly should have either died or been depowered after SS. But Kubo is only interested in killing off his (great) villains.

The only disappointment bigger than the Vizard for me were the Espada. (Well, that and the Fullbringers not getting tied into Chad and Orihime in any meaningful way.)

[BloodSquirrel]

Byakuya didn't need to be killed off, he just needed to fade into the background as the newer, more powerful villains made him less relevant. If the Espada and the Vizard had actually lived up to their hype, and maybe only the strongest of the SS Captains had been able to keep up and compete, it would have been fine. Instead, they were nerfed so that the SS Captains could keep the center stage, and that continued on into the next two arcs.

Honestly, I think the series would have worked much better, structurally, if Aizen had been the final villain and the TYBW had happened inbetween the SS arc and the Arrancar arc:


Given the established lore in the series up until that point, it didn't make much sense for the Sternritter to be so powerful. This way, you can make them not as strong as the SS Captains, but with being able to steal their bankai as a way to level the playing field.
This also you to much more elegantly prevent showing the top captains' bankais while still having them fight seriously.
It allows you to make Ywach fit much more closely with his primary concept- the Quincy king who has come back to get revenge on SS, rather than confusing a lot of stuff by making him the Soul King's son or something, and his goal is to destroy the world... because... there won't be fear anymore? Kubo never really figured that part out, and the story arc would be stronger without it. He also doesn't need to be made so stupidly overpowered.
You also don't need to retcon how Ichigo's powers work and try to force a connection between him and Ywach. If it isn't going to be the final storyline, it doesn't need quite so badly to be about Ichigo. Making it a bit more about the captains and having Ichigo be a bit more of a background character works better that way.
It lets you clear out anything you still want to do with the SS captains so that the final arc can be more focused on Ichigo, his friends, and any new characters you want to introduce vs. Aizen. The top 3 Espada vs. The Royal Guard would have made way more sense than what we wound up getting.

[Psyren]

My other big problem with Ichigo was also highlighted by Super Eyepatch Wolf - he doesn't really have any internal conflict. He wants to protect his friends and... that's kind of it, big whoop, that's Shonen Protag 101. What makes an interesting protagonist is when they have wants/needs that can clash to create drama.

Contrast him with some other big shonen examples:

Goku - wants to protect friends, also wants to battle strong opponents. Sometimes the latter gets in the way of the former, like giving Cell a Senzu bean, or betting the fate of his entire galaxy on a fighting tournament, or not being thorough so that his enemies come back later and even more dangerous than before.

Luffy - wants to protect friends, also wants to become the Pirate King. These goals often coincide, but they may not always - and there is an interesting narrative question being set up for whether the title he's after (and the bonds/responsibilities he's forging along the way) will really come with the sort of freedom he seems to ultimately want.

Natsu - wants to protect friends, also wants to find his adoptive father (a dragon) who not-coincidentally has given him the perfect training needed to destroy dragons prior to disappearing. Pursuing the latter is likely to endanger the former due to plot reasons.

Naruto - wants to protect friends, also wants to become Hokage. Also, one of the friends he most wants to protect has designs on harming or killing a number of the others for plot reasons.

Some of those are deeper than others, but Ichigo doesn't have any of it, and when Goku of all people is deeper than your anime protagonist you might have a bit of a problem.

When someone doesn't need rescuing, he's completely passive. The first time they actually fought (not counting the SS one-shot) Aizen even lampshaded it directly, saying Ichigo couldn't go all out against him because he was completely lacking in motivation. Good on you for recognizing the problem, Tite Kubo - but having one of your characters explain to the audience how badly your main character is written doesn't stop him from being written badly!

[BloodSquirrel]

It's worse than that. He has no agency at all in the final arc. When his bankai breaks, and his first attempt to fix it fails, what does he do? Does he try talking to his sword like every other shinigami does? Does he seek out some quest that will give him the strength to fix it? Maybe try to see if there's some other way to access his power?

No, he just goes home, and his dad thankfully tells him some backstory that unlocks the next plot point. He spends almost the entire story arc being led from point A to point B without making any meaningful decisions on his own, making any active attempt to solve a problem, or showing any independence of thought from Soul Society.

Even "protect my friends" is something you can work with. In the SS arc, he was butting heads philosophically with Byakuya because of his "obey the rules" attitude, which put them in conflict. In the TYBW, the villains are all just a bunch of evil-for-the-sake-of-evil bad guys who just need to be wiped out and Ichigo isn't aware or interested enough in their methods at this point to disagree with them and make the conflict any less one-dimensional. If Soul Society was going to sacrifice some of the captains in order to win and Ichigo decided that they should try to win without doing that you'd at least have something going on, even with such a basic motivation on Ichigo's part.

Just another example of a missed opportunity: Shunsui tells Ichigo's friends that he may never be able to return to Earth because his spiritual power may become to overwhelming. How about actually using that, and not forgetting completely about it? How about Ichigo having to make a decision between embracing his shinigami powers and leaving behind the life on Earth he's been trying to build for himself, or keep his power sealed away and not be able to fight a battle that only he may be able to win?

[Ramza00]

My other big problem with Ichigo was also highlighted by Super Eyepatch Wolf - he doesn't really have any internal conflict. He wants to protect his friends and... that's kind of it, big whoop, that's Shonen Protag 101. What makes an interesting protagonist is when they have wants/needs that can clash to create drama.
Which video for he made one of his private when newer information made him realize some of his older information was rumors that looked true. One of the reasons I stayed out earlier with thread while we relitigate the last 200 chapters of the comic.

As for your Shounen bit, this is true. Ichigo personality is he wants a “I’ll be home for Christmas” energy. He is a peacemaker not in skill set but that is his deep seated desire. This was not broadcast well enough with outside symbols, metaphors, etc where people got what drove Ichigo.

Ichigo is a deeply passive and reactive character for he has “neutralizing” energy instead of affirming or negating his first instinct is to reconcile. He wanted people to feel at peace when they have life changes such as departing life A and starting life B. Ichigo’s story is about the stages of grief and how he feels things such as community, friends, etc make us “more resilient” when exposed to a world that produces lots of change, but also lots of stagnation, and thus we have grief when it changes too much or too little.

[Ramza00]

October 2022 (for Japan)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8YBesRKq_U&feature=youtu.be

[LaZodiac]

I might watch this just because the highs of the Quincy Blood War Arc are legitimately good...

and, truthfully, the sheer bile fascination of Yumichika vs Giselle and everything associated with that, is drawing me in. I want to get a screen cap of Yumichika being a bigot to Giselle so I can make a "Yes I'm gay, yes I'm a homophobe. We exist." joke. Even though this isn't even appropriate because Giselle is a bi trans woman, it's just too good to pass up.

[Rater202]

I might watch this just because the highs of the Quincy Blood War Arc are legitimately good...

and, truthfully, the sheer bile fascination of Yumichika vs Giselle and everything associated with that, is drawing me in. I want to get a screen cap of Yumichika being a bigot to Giselle so I can make a "Yes I'm gay, yes I'm a homophobe. We exist." joke. Even though this isn't even appropriate because Giselle is a bi trans woman, it's just too good to pass up.Yumichika's logic in that scene is weird.

He can smell male sexual fluids... So he assumes that she must be a man...?

I mean, in the original Japanese she refers to herself with male pronouns(Boku), so if he was going by how she refers to herself that would be one thing, but his logic boils down to "you smell like you had sex with a dude recently, therefore you must be a dude."

I can only assume that it was a clumsy attempt at foreshadowing that Bambina's zombie was hidden on Giselle's person. Bambina had sex with a man maybe an hour top s before becoming a Zombie and there's no indication she cleaned up after.

[Psyren]

I haven't really seen any anime handle this kind of thing well. Even Cowboy Bebop, which is damn close to being the perfect anime, got more than a little clumsy when it came to Gren (not that they were even going for representation with that character, but still.) At best they become a punchline like Ferris in Re:Zero, and at worst... ugh.

[Rater202]

Yeah...

The best example of representation of non-traditional genders in anime I can think of is how Boruto treats Orochimaru's gender. "I've been a man, a woman, and things that can't be called either. Those terms don't really apply to me and honestly, it doesn't matter whether I am your mother or father, what matters is that I'm your parent."

And that's kind of undermined by it being... Orochimaru saying it.Le'ts change topics! You're a Shinigami... Or a Fullbringer... Or a Hallow/Arrancar... anything that has their own unique powers without an outside influence.

What are your powers?

Fullbringer: I have a stuffed rabbit that I have had literally since the day I was born. It was given to me by a relative who is not alive anymore. My heart's desires all amount to "freedom and power." Fullbring powers are highly conceptual with several of them bordering on or just flat out being reality-warping... And power theft/copying of various forms is my favorite trope.

The members of X-Cution mostly name their fullbrings after musical references.

My Fullbring is Schnuffel Bunny. A Clad type that manifests a suit of warm bunny jammies with a hood that enhances my speed, agility, and ability to escape grabs. If I defeat you in battle, I can just run off with a portion of your power and repurpose it to make myself harder to capture or restrain by some metric. How did I take your power? Who the hell knows, it just happens.

[Psyren]

Kido Corps Shinigami, probably; Bleach's magic system was always my favorite aspect of the series.

I had a whole writeup for my zanpakuto, shikai and bankai somewhere when I was younger that I in no way remember :smalltongue:

I do know that it definitely wouldn't be a sword when released. A fan, or a book, or some kind of jewelry more likely that would amplify my magic.

[ben-zayb]

Almost a year from now, then? Alright. For someone waiting for Togashi to conclude HxH, one year is nothing.

I'm pretty sure "invoke Chuck Norris" was my custom bankai / kekkai genkai / devil fruit, considering his memes appeared at the same period as the peak of HST.

At this point in my life, my custom fullbring or bankai will probaby take the form of a traffic wand that creates a field of influence where reality itself is forced to comply on what a road sign says. At the bare minimum, this means everyone follows traffic regulation 100%. Good. Except I also get to tag locations with road signs, so tagging a "stop" sign on a location absolutely prevents movement in that area.

[Vahnavoi]

About Ichigo's lack of internal conflict: he does have interesting internal conflicts, first when he struggles with his Hollow self, and then in the Fullbringer arc when he struggles with adjusting back to powerless existence. The Thousand Year Blood War also had potential, with his clashing Quincy and Shinigami heritages, him being angry at his dad etc.. He's still a soccer ball kicked around by people with bigger plans than him, but he does assert agency at several points, his "shut up!" to Ishida and Ginjo being one of the more obvious examples.

About Yumichika versus Giselle: oh my God, a guy deliberately trying to insult his opponent said something genuinely insulting! Stop the presses!

He's not trying to make sense at that scene. He's trying to get under Giselle's skin, with visible success. Maybe not the wisest move, in that situation, but eh. :smallamused:

[Rater202]

About Ichigo's lack of internal conflict: he does have interesting internal conflicts, first when he struggles with his Hollow self, and then in the Fullbringer arc when he struggles with adjusting back to powerless existence. The Thousand Year Blood War also had potential, with his clashing Quincy and Shinigami heritages, him being angry at his dad etc.. He's still a soccer ball kicked around by people with bigger plans than him, but he does assert agency at several points, his "shut up!" to Ishida and Ginjo being one of the more obvious examples.

About Yumichika versus Giselle: oh my God, a guy deliberately trying to insult his opponent said something genuinely insulting! Stop the presses!

He's not trying to make sense at that scene. He's trying to get under Giselle's skin, with visible success. Maybe not the wisest move, in that situation, but eh. :smallamused:

While your point is valid, depicting a protagonist as deliberately misgendering someone who might* be transgender unironically isn't the best way to go about that trope.

It's the kind of thing that rel transphobes will latch onto and take out of context as affirmation that their values.

*It's never actually confirmed if she is or not. We know that she takes offense to be called a man(or a crossdresser) but that she uses male pronouns when referring to herself despite being refered to as female by everyone else and that's it. For what it's worth, the narrative seems to treat her biological sex as irrelevant.

[LaZodiac]

About Ichigo's lack of internal conflict: he does have interesting internal conflicts, first when he struggles with his Hollow self, and then in the Fullbringer arc when he struggles with adjusting back to powerless existence. The Thousand Year Blood War also had potential, with his clashing Quincy and Shinigami heritages, him being angry at his dad etc.. He's still a soccer ball kicked around by people with bigger plans than him, but he does assert agency at several points, his "shut up!" to Ishida and Ginjo being one of the more obvious examples.

About Yumichika versus Giselle: oh my God, a guy deliberately trying to insult his opponent said something genuinely insulting! Stop the presses!

He's not trying to make sense at that scene. He's trying to get under Giselle's skin, with visible success. Maybe not the wisest move, in that situation, but eh. :smallamused:

Something I should make clear is that I'm well aware that that's what Yumichika is doing, and bring it up mostly as a joke. Yumichika, as the only real resident LGBTA character in Bleach, always has to fight people like him (always is a charged term he's had like two fights throughout the series, but both were against genderqueer opponents) and it's never clear if he's saying what he says out of trying to egg them on, or because he's just kinda hateful of that stuff. I do lean towards the former, it's just funny to me that Yumichika so perfectly slots into that meme format I mentioned above.

On the flip side; the thing I most look forward to with Giselle is well meaning folk seeing her, instantly twigging on that she's a trans woman, and talking about how she may be a villain but it's clear no one really dismisses her as not one. She is part of the explicitly all female squad of the baddies, no one is creeped out by her, and so on. They do treat her fairly nice, all things being considered, and it's nice to see that in a trans character.

Then I want these well meaning people to, after saying all that, stumble into the episode wherein we reveal she is a necrophiliac necromancer who doesn't take no for an answer, because it's severely ****ed up and a part of me just enjoys watching people squirm when they've accidentally backed the wrong horse. Something about that amuses me- it's the same energy of someone posting a picture of Kyubey from Madoka and being "aah it's so cute!" and then later posting some sort of retraction afterwards.

EDIT: Also yeah what Rater says, re "this is our hero; he finds queer people gross and will misgender you. He's also gay". That's a factor.

(I hold that Giselle is a trans woman because, while she uses boku instead of other personal pronouns, that's... not a thing that is uncommon for girls TO do. I'm curious if the other girls in this squad may also use it, since they're all pretty rough and brutal people, so it'd make sense for them to do so as well. Much like the Arrancar that Yumichika fought, I feel it is appropriate to just take them on their word about who they are, regardless of things like that or presentation.)

[Rater202]

She's even more ****ed up in the novels.

Can't Fear Your Own World establishes that she's genuinely in love with Bamina and considers Bambina to be her girlfriend... While abusing her both physically and psychologically for her own pleasure. She then gets offended when Lilito calls her a sadist.

She's perfectly nice to random strangers and people she hates though.

Giselle and Lilito survived YhWach smacking them down for trying to attack him. Lilito went into self-imposed exile to just live out the rest of her life and she forced Gisele to come with her becuase she doesn't trust that Gisele won't be a danger to herself or others if left to her own devices.

[LaZodiac]

She's even more ****ed up in the novels.

Can't Fear Your Own World establishes that she's genuinely in love with Bamina and considers Bambina to be her girlfriend... While abusing her both physically and psychologically for her own pleasure. She then gets offended when Lilito calls her a sadist.

She's perfectly nice to random strangers and people she hates though.

Giselle and Lilito survived YhWach smacking them down for trying to attack him. Lilito went into self-imposed exile to just live out the rest of her life and she forced Gisele to come with her becuase she doesn't trust that Gisele won't be a danger to herself or others if left to her own devices.

...............

what?

I mean Liltotto is weirdly one of my favorites of this group unironically, so I'm glad she lived somehow I guess, but also... they were definitely killed. What? And Bambina's zombie is also still alive? What?? And they just... decided that there should be a segment of book explaining how this happened and how Liltotto just kinda has Giselle on a leash because "well she's my friend so I can't kill her but she's too dangerous to let alone so this is my life now; room mates with the corpse ****er and her zombie slave who was also my friend." What????

God a part of me really did miss this, though.

[Rater202]

...............

what?

I mean Liltotto is weirdly one of my favorites of this group unironically, so I'm glad she lived somehow I guess, but also... they were definitely killed. What? And Bambina's zombie is also still alive? What?? And they just... decided that there should be a segment of book explaining how this happened and how Liltotto just kinda has Giselle on a leash because "well she's my friend so I can't kill her but she's too dangerous to let alone so this is my life now; room mates with the corpse ****er and her zombie slave who was also my friend." What????

God a part of me really did miss this, though.

So the whole point of Can't Fear Yoru Own Word is that Kubo was sharing some stuff about Bleach that he wanted to do but couldn't for various reasons, or explanations of things he had to cut for time,a dns o on with Ryōgo Narita, wh o thought it was all cool and asked if it would beokay to do something with that, so Kbo wrote up an outline and proofread the drafts.

Like.. Shuhei, the guy who looks like a blackhaired Ichigo but unlike Kaien it never comes up or gets explained? Kubo originally created him with the intent that he'd eventually be the protagonist of an arc, so his uncanny resemblance to Ichigo was a metajoke on his part about his "protagonist-like qualities." The plot of Can't Fear Your Own world is Shuhei, in his capacity as publisher of Shinigami Communications and an investigative Journalist, tracking people down to find out the truth of all that happened over the last couple of years.

Which is how, for example, we learn Ginjo's backstory: He goes to the Shiba compound in the Rukon and asks him his side of the story.

and as he's doing this, he ends up engrossed in yet another conspiracy.

Other things we learned from this novel 1: Following his Death, Yhwach's body was subjected to a process that turned into a replacement for the soul king. This process is horrifying and everyone who finds out how it worked, and that the original Soul King was also subjected to it, unanimously agrees that Aizen had a valid point.

2: The Royal Guard trained up Ichigo not to fight Yhwach but to do this to Ichigo, having figured that the loss of the orignal Soul King was inevitable, and its only the fact that Yhwach absorbed the remains of the original that spared him this fate.

3: Any entity that combines the traits of Living Human, Shinigami, Hollow, and Quincy can potentially become a Soul King.

4: The Noble that was married to and then murdered Tousen's friend belongs to a family whose job is just to monitor everything in Soul Society. He knows exactly how the orignal Soul King came to be... and decides that since the original Five Noble Famiys who founded Soul Society got away with something utterly inexcusable that he has the right to be as big of a bastard as he wants.

5: Yhwach was one of The Soul King's removed organs—his "Almighty Power" incarnated as a human.

6: Gremmy was the Soul King's Brain.

7: The portion of her soul that was ripped out of Matsumoto in her backstory by Aizen's men in order to make his Hogyoku was the nail that affixed the Soul King's chain of fate to his body. It embedded itself in a random soul and has been passing itself down a lineage ever since.

8: Fullbringer's are essentially reality warpers. One of the bad guy's minions is a fullbringer woman who inherited the Soul King's chain under the same circumstances. Her Spiritual Power is comparable to Aizen's as a shinigami and she can do things like turn intangible, manipulate organic matter at the atomic level to create a bland paste that is perfectly sustaining to human life if eaten, and turn a lake into a water dragon and a chunk of the earth into a fire dragon.

None of these are "her" Fullbring. she doesn't have her own Fullbring,becuase she doesn't have the capacity for sentimentality needed to channel a power through a beloved personal item.

9: The inconsistency with Ise's Zanpakuto is explained: In addition to the Shashi that draw out their wilder's hidden power, Nimaiya aslo forged unique swords that behaved in the same pattern, one ofr each of the Five Noble Clans of Soul society, that can be used by members of those clans.

In addition to Ise's God Killing Sword, the Kuchki Clan's family Zampakuto is Muramasa from the Zanpkuto Rebellion Arc(he doesn't appear but despite that arc being non-canon Muramasa is more or less described as being exactly the same, sans not being someone's personal Zanpakuto) and the big bad's family has a Zampakuto whose Shikai can counter any Zanpakuto ability and whose Bankai can replicate any Zampakuo ability that its current wielder has witnessed—with the caveat that you use your own power to fuel it.

The remaining Heridatry Zanpkuto—and whether the Shiba Clan still has theirs—are unrevealed.

10: Ichibe has the power to revive himself from death as long as someone remembers his name, and he can resurrect the other members of Squad Zero by chanting their names.

11: Squad Zero answers directly to the Noble Houses. The Noble houses, if they vote unanimously, can disband Central 46 and assume absolute control of Soul Society. This is currently impossible however due to the Shiba Clan's effective exile and lack of a head—though the big bad wants them reinstated for exactly this purpose.

12: Isshin is apparently the rightful head of the Shiba Clan, though neither he nor Ichigo are interested in assuming those duties.

13: Preteens are fully capable of being Clan HEads in soul society, as the Big Bad flat out says "Maybe one of his daughters would be interested" when told the above.

14: If you survive Ashwuallen, the powers Yhwach stole from you will eventually come back, the powers he stole from you are returned upon death.

15: The Forest of Menos Arc from the anime is canon.(to be fair, Kubo intended to put it in the manga)

16: This guy exists.
https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/hikone_ubiginu_bbs_2_6.png

[LaZodiac]

I basically don't remember anything detail wise about Bleach that isn't directly related to the things I find immediately funny about Bleach, so I barely understood any of that.

Cute kid though. Reminds me of the new Shinigami in the Hell Arc teaser; specifically the ganguro esque girl who just rips things to pieces with her bare hands.

[Psyren]

About Ichigo's lack of internal conflict: he does have interesting internal conflicts, first when he struggles with his Hollow self, and then in the Fullbringer arc when he struggles with adjusting back to powerless existence. The Thousand Year Blood War also had potential, with his clashing Quincy and Shinigami heritages, him being angry at his dad etc.. He's still a soccer ball kicked around by people with bigger plans than him, but he does assert agency at several points, his "shut up!" to Ishida and Ginjo being one of the more obvious examples.

Those are all the same conflict though. "Protect friends, need more power to do so." It might have different flavors depending on the type he needs for a given arc - Shinigami, Vizored, Fullbring, Quincy etc - but ultimately, same dish. And furthermore, that's not actually a conflict, because the second part is just the means to support the first.

Compare that to, say, Goku - who also has "protect friends, cultivate power" but also the third dimension, "genetic/pathological need for strong opponents." That's a conflict, because while "more power" is the means to both ends, those ends can and do frequently clash. Hell, getting stronger can even get in the way, because he gets cockier or drags things out more than he needs to, causing additional problems down the road.

[Rater202]

I basically don't remember anything detail wise about Bleach that isn't directly related to the things I find immediately funny about Bleach, so I barely understood any of that.

Cute kid though. Reminds me of the new Shinigami in the Hell Arc teaser; specifically the ganguro esque girl who just rips things to pieces with her bare hands.

Kinda. Hikone's whole schtick is that he* is a very cute, cheerful, likable child who has an infectious enthusiasm about everything and that everyone ends up liking... But he's also murderously loyal to the villain of the novel and has a limited sense of right and wrong due to his upbringing.

And has the power to be a legitimate threat to an alliance of Shinigami, Arrancar, and the surviving Sternritter by himself.

And then he bonds with a unique zanpakto forged from the most powerful non-Vasto Lorde hollow in existence that can only be properly wielded by someone with the capacity to become a soul king.

*I'm using male pronouns for him because the novel does, but it's eventually revealed that Hikone is an artificial lifeform that concepts like male and female do not apply to. It's not really clear if this is purely in the context of biology or if he's intended to be agender as well.

[Anonymouswizard]

'Ichigo was the intended replacement Soul King' is the most logical plot point Bleach has had since like the Soul Society arc. That makes complete sense.

But that also implies that, even if the Quincies as we understand them get their power from Ywach, they must predate him in some form if the original Soul King' had a Quincy-related soul.

Also, has Orihime's power being Full ring or Fullbring-adjacent been confirmed yet? It basically fits almost perfectly.

[Rater202]

'Ichigo was the intended replacement Soul King' is the most logical plot point Bleach has had since like the Soul Society arc. That makes complete sense.

But that also implies that, even if the Quincies as we understand them get their power from Ywach, they must predate him in some form if the original Soul King' had a Quincy-related soul.

Also, has Orihime's power being Full ring or Fullbring-adjacent been confirmed yet? It basically fits almost perfectly.

1: Orihime being a fullbringer is confirmed in the novel.

2: Yhwach presents himself as the son of the soul king and, per the Novel, is one of his autonomous organs—Yhwach's Schrift isn't The Almighty so much as Yhwach himself is The Almighty personified.

So it's less that the original Soul King had Quincy in him so much as Quincy powers are derived from an aspect of his own power.

The orignal Soul King was essentially a unique entity. The replacement Soul Kings are just... Rough approximations.

Ginjo has basically the same backstory as Ichigo—a human with both soul reaper and Quincy ancestry, whose mother was attacked by a hollo and infected and passed on that hallow essence when he was gestating in her womb, resulting in a natural hybrid of all four souls, who then had his spiritual powers awakened by a donation of power from a shinigami.

The implication is that the reason Soul Society claimed his body was becuase they wanted his corpse as a backup Soul King, and the big bad of the novel tries to re-kill Ginjo in sou society to remove him as a potential soul king since his own lan involves replacing the Soul King with Hikone in order to tweak the universe to be more to his liking.

Per the backstory revealed in the novel: Originally, the spiritual world and the material world were one and the same and everyone was immortal. However, things were... chaotic. Hollows rather than corrupted human souls just... Sort of spontaneously came into existence, some of whom were born as Menos or even Vasto Lordes. Barragan is explicitly stated to have been born in this time, as based on his one-shot manga in the Masks databook Ulquiorra probably was as well.

The Soul King was sort of a defense mechanism: A ridiculously overpowered humanoid eldritch abomination that destroyed hollows. However, when he destroyed them, they were destroyed utterly. Which included the entities they devoured.

Furthermore, over time a horrid abyss began to open in reality... Hell.

The five families that ruled the world grew fearful of the Soul King's power, saw hell as a problem, and wished to stabilize reality...

So they bound the Soul King, removed his arms and legs, disemboweled and lobotomized him, and used his hollowed-out living corpse as the lynchpin of a ritual that broke the universe.

The spiritual world was permanently torn from the material world, and was in turn split into Hueco Mundo and Soul Society. The Material world was then used as a "lid" to contain Hell, which was repurposed as a ghetto for unwanted souls or beings that don't fit into the system.

Mostly evil people... But you'll notice that hollows that go to Hell are still hollows which indicates that they're probably still composed of all the souls they ate. Not to mention what the Hell teaser chapter revealed about Shinigami funerary rites.

In BLeach's cosmology, the reason people die is becuase some people committed unprovoked deicide out of fear.

I think we've all noted how Bleach's afterlife sucks much bad... It's that way becuase it was never supposed to exist.

Aizen and Yhewach weren't bad guys becuase of what they wanted to do. They were bad guys becuase of the extremes they were willing to go to do it.

Bleach isn't a conflict between good and evil. It's a conflict between "protect the current status quo and look on the bright side" vs "try to change to a better system at the cost of a hell of a lot of lives."

The Five Noble Family of t Soul Society are the descendants of the people who did that to the Soul King.

[Psyren]

1: Orihime being a fullbringer is confirmed in the novel.

Man, Fullbring had so much damn potential as a power source. But they used the arc primarily to sideline the two (one?) actual fullbringers we've known since the beginning of the series, and to immediately undo the one event of any consequence from the Aizen arc that wasn't killing all the interesting villains.

...I'm starting to wonder if I even want more Bleach at this point...

[Rater202]

Man, Fullbring had so much damn potential as a power source. But they used the arc primarily to sideline the two (one?) actual fullbringers we've known since the beginning of the series, and to immediately undo the one event of any consequence from the Aizen arc that wasn't killing all the interesting villains.

...I'm starting to wonder if I even want more Bleach at this point...

Apparently, the Lost Agent Arc was supposed to be earlier in the series and be longer but he was forced to postpone and then rush it due to editorial interference.

If I have the story right, the editors that Kubo had early on were good editors who basically, you know, did their jobs. They helped him polish up what he had, and he credits them with helping him finalize his outline for the plot—which he claims was done by around the time the Soul Society Arc was well in swing. The only rel demand they made was that he not drag his feat on moving from the inial arc to the Soul Society arc

And then the editors he had for the entire rest of the run made demands of him and were pushy about things. He himself doesn't hay anything bad about any of them, but things like how long the La Noches, Fake Kurakura Town, and Deicide Arcs were and comparatively how rushed the Lost Agent arc seem to be tied to editorial demands.

Some of that was also part of the problems with the Blood War arc, particularly when they demanded he finish within a specific number of chapters, but he was also under un lot of stress at the time and his health was failing.

I'm not gonna say that everything wrong with Bleach was editorial interference, but if I have the stories right the orignal plan was that Aizen would have been defeated at the exact middle of the story and then Yhwach would be the villain for the second half, wit both halves having arcs that weren't directly related to their respective big bad sprinkled in.

And honestly... If the stories are true then the best arcs—as in constant quality, not necessarily the best moments—were the ones where Kubo was just allowed to do what he wanted to do at a pace he was comfortable with. You know, the first two. s opposed to having to speed blitz plot points or cater to the specific preferences of editors.

[Psyren]

You're right, I'm being too harsh on the guy. It's always hard to see behind the curtain and understand exactly how much problems come from executive meddling.

[Ramza00]

Man, Fullbring had so much damn potential as a power source. But they used the arc primarily to sideline the two (one?) actual fullbringers we've known since the beginning of the series, and to immediately undo the one event of any consequence from the Aizen arc that wasn't killing all the interesting villains.

...I'm starting to wonder if I even want more Bleach at this point...

The answer is yes.

[Anonymouswizard]

Man, Fullbring had so much damn potential as a power source. But they used the arc primarily to sideline the two (one?) actual fullbringers we've known since the beginning of the series, and to immediately undo the one event of any consequence from the Aizen arc that wasn't killing all the interesting villains.

...I'm starting to wonder if I even want more Bleach at this point...

Honestly, the least interesting parts of Bleach for me ended up being anything to do with Soul Reapers or Hollows, and Fullbringers and Quincies stood out as actually interesting. The Lost Agent arc was probably the best of everything past the Soul Society arc, although it deserved to be a bit longer.

Honestly, if the new arc brings Chad and Orihime to the forefront and pushes 99% of Soul Society characters into the background it'll be a good thing.

[Psyren]

Honestly, the least interesting parts of Bleach for me ended up being anything to do with Soul Reapers or Hollows, and Fullbringers and Quincies stood out as actually interesting. The Lost Agent arc was probably the best of everything past the Soul Society arc, although it deserved to be a bit longer.

Honestly, if the new arc brings Chad and Orihime to the forefront and pushes 99% of Soul Society characters into the background it'll be a good thing.

Yeah, no way in hell they do that, we're going to be shoehorning the Gotei 13 front and center into everything until the series ends. It's nice to dream though.

[tyckspoon]

Honestly, if the new arc brings Chad and Orihime to the forefront and pushes 99% of Soul Society characters into the background it'll be a good thing.

Not unless Chad and Orihime suddenly find neat swords.

[Rater202]

Yeah, Fullbringers are one of the more interesting aspects of the setting, but Quincy...

I mean, the only Quincy with unique powers are the ones given those powers by Yhwach or the ones that aren't really Quincy.

Excepting Yhwach himself.

And... You know, Quincy with only Quincy powers are an existential threat due to the whole "destroy souls" thing. Way back when Uryu was introduced he flat out says that the shinigami were right to try and wipe out the Quincy because his ancestors were overhunting hollows and refused to either listen to reason or accept a compromise.

They don't interest me as much...

Though, all cards on the table, I did try to imagine what a quincy dominated four-part hybrid would be like.

Behind fullbringers, my favorites are the hollows. But I'm a sucker for Cannibalism super powers, evolutionary levels, and amalgamated entities.

...I'm really curious as to some stuff like... We know that some people who become Hollows can retain their sapience and sanity after changing. We have Shrieker as one and according to the novel Spirits Are Always With You Szayelaporro Grans was another* but... What are the rules for that? Is it "evil enough" is it "already insane" or is it "you'd like being hollow?" Some combination of the three?

[Vahnavoi]

I don't think Kubo's ever thought hard rules for it, buy based on what we have I'd say the criteria is being figuratively heartless before becoming literally so.

[Anonymouswizard]

Yeah, Fullbringers are one of the more interesting aspects of the setting, but Quincy...

I mean, the only Quincy with unique powers are the ones given those powers by Yhwach or the ones that aren't really Quincy.

Excepting Yhwach himself.

And... You know, Quincy with only Quincy powers are an existential threat due to the whole "destroy souls" thing. Way back when Uryu was introduced he flat out says that the shinigami were right to try and wipe out the Quincy because his ancestors were overhunting hollows and refused to either listen to reason or accept a compromise.

They don't interest me as much...

On the other hand I find them interesting for similar reasons. You don't need unique powers to be interesting, and that's honestly a more interesting potential conflict than the TYBW. The Quincies are back, and the Shinigami are completely certain that they are the same as the old ones despite having no proof.

Plus Quincies clearly have items that manipulate their powers, build on that.

[Rater202]

On the other hand I find them interesting for similar reasons. You don't need unique powers to be interesting, and that's honestly a more interesting potential conflict than the TYBW. The Quincies are back, and the Shinigami are completely certain that they are the same as the old ones despite having no proof.

Plus Quincies clearly have items that manipulate their powers, build on that.

Yeah, but in a series where everyone else has cool unique powers based on their inner nature(shinigami) or heart's desire(both hollows and Fullbringers) or just goes full alacarte(generic mediums and mod souls) Quincy are all more or less cookie cutter. Some of them use different bows and that school, especially since, you know, your bow can be a gun. Or a sword. But otherwise it's just "shoot arrows, use chainsaw-lightsaber to shave off enemy power source, shot the sword as an arrow, or use stored energy and the sword-arrow-sawsabres to trap people and make them go kablooey."

Unless Yhwach gives them a random power based on a title he gave them instead of necessarily anything to do with them. Some of the Sternritter had powers that fit their personalities, like the corpse****er or the creepy old man.

They're out of place and it doesn't feel like it's on a good way.

[Ramza00]

Because I listened to a lot of Number One songs yesterday (it and its remixes) YouTube just told me that the Fullbring arc just got a dub trailer releaase as of a few weeks ago. Sure the Fullbring arc is years old but to my understanding they never hired the dub actors back, but this is now rectified.

[BloodSquirrel]

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the "Every character has to have some unique, overly-complex power and half of the fight is them explaining how it works". I'd much rather characters use a pool of common, established powers in more dynamic and creative ways.

Of course, it also works better when the fights are all advancing a stronger central narrative rather than being a lot of pair-off fights that happen in narrative isolation and have almost no story content to them. Ichigo vs. Kenpachi was 100x more interesting than any of the Sternritter fights, and it was nothing but Ichigo and Kenpachi swinging swords at each other. It was good because it felt like a real milestone in the story, and the emotional moments actually clicked during it.

Meanwhile, One Punch Man has been killing it with the MA battle between the S-Class heroes and the Cadres; it's almost entirely a battle between characters with simple, straight-forward fighting styles, but it throws all of them into one giant battle, mixes things up, and has plenty of cool twists and big moments. Hell, King, a guy who literally can't fight at all, gives us a couple of badass moments where he saves the day by bluffing long enough for Garou to wake up.



Aizen and Yhewach weren't bad guys becuase of what they wanted to do. They were bad guys becuase of the extremes they were willing to go to do it.

Bleach isn't a conflict between good and evil. It's a conflict between "protect the current status quo and look on the bright side" vs "try to change to a better system at the cost of a hell of a lot of lives."


It would have been nice if this had made it into the actual story instead of being in a tie-in novel after the series was finished.

I mean, really, Ywach was a bad guy because he was a ridiculous, mustache-twirling villain who killed his own subordinates for the lulz and said that he was going to use his power to know what the happiest day of Ichigo's life was so that he could kill him them just to be as big a **** as possible (Even though he was actually about to destroy death itself or something two chapters later).

[Rater202]

I mean, it was in a tie-in novel becuase Kubo wasn't able to put it in the series. By the time the Thousand Year Blood War Arc was in full swing his health was deteriorating and his editors were demanding that he just hurry up and finish the series already.

Even then, it's more than alluded to. Aizen and Urahara's discussion about the Soul King—particularly the soul king being referred to as "that thing", and allusions to Soul Society's "orignal sin," and Yhwach breaking down and stating that he's trying to create a world without death as he's being defeated.

The Novels are basically Kubo going back and throwing in the stuff he wasn't able to put in the series with the help of a few friends.

As for Yhwach... Okay, poor phrasing on my part.

Yhwach is a monster, but it's his desire to Mercy Kill and Usurp his "father" and create a world without death that makes him an antagonist.

Though considering that Yhwach literally needs to imbue parts of his soul into other people and then later reclaim it from them at the cost of their lives(or upon their death) or otherwise feed on the souls and powers of others just to be able to function, let alone survive, is it really his fault that he's a monster? Especially when he started doing it as a literal baby and was praised as a God for it.

[BloodSquirrel]

I mean, it was in a tie-in novel becuase Kubo wasn't able to put it in the series. By the time the Thousand Year Blood War Arc was in full swing his health was deteriorating and his editors were demanding that he just hurry up and finish the series already.

Even then, it's more than alluded to. Aizen and Urahara's discussion about the Soul King—particularly the soul king being referred to as "that thing", and allusions to Soul Society's "orignal sin," and Yhwach breaking down and stating that he's trying to create a world without death as he's being defeated.

The Novels are basically Kubo going back and throwing in the stuff he wasn't able to put in the series with the help of a few friends.


I'm sorry, but that excuse just doesn't hold water at all.

Explaining your main villain's motivation isn't something you save for the literal last chapter of your manga- and it's not like the TYBW was a short story arc. It's the kind of thing that you should be establishing from the beginning of the storyline, and your villain's actual actions during said storyline should not wildly contradict what he claims he was trying to do in his last seconds.

It doesn't make any sense to claim that Kubo was too rushed to have Ywach tell us what his big plan really was, but that he wasn't too rushed to have Ywach gloat endlessly about how everything that happened was his plan and how he was going to kill Ichigo in the most over-the-top villainous way possible. It's not just that Ywach was underdeveloped, it was that he was developed in the complete opposite direction from what Kubo decided that he was supposed to be in the last chapter.

The TYBW was 206 chapters long- almost a third of the length of the entire manga. The problem wasn't that it was rushed. The problem is that it wasted all of its time on redundant and unnecessary fights, plot cul-de-sacs, and misplaced priorities. The manga wasn't in the middle of weaving together a bunch of complex plot threads when it ended- by the time the end was announced, Kubo had already written himself into a corner where Ywach was so overpowered that it was going to take a Starfinger in order to defeat him and all of the plot threads that had been promised just... weren't relevant anymore. Who cares what the dozen remaining bankais were at that point? It's not like they were going to be useful against Ywach. It wasn't like we were suddenly going to go to Huecu Mundo so that the arrancar could wind up being relevant again. Pick any of the abandoned plot threads you want- by the time Ywach entered the soul palace, pretty much all of them had expired. The series had committed to an end run at that point. None of them were going to come up again. We were, however, going to continue to burn chapters on fights against Ywach's minions.

The idea that it was all his editors' fault is pure wishful thinking. It's a too-convenient shifting of the blame. Maybe his earlier editors could have worked with Kubo to make the TYBW into a more cohesive storyline, but that doesn't exonerate Kubo for constantly introducing new things into the story whenever he didn't know what to do next instead of picking something out of the pile of ideas that he already had sitting around.

If he is going to continue the new arc he started (As far as I can tell, there's been no news about it since he dropped that chapter) I really hope he gets those old editors back and they can convince him to plan things out ahead just little bit more. Kubo might be good at coming up with a lot of cool concepts, but he badly needs someone to filter and help structure them. There's just no excuse for leaving an important part of SS's history that explains the whole story arc for a tie-in novel when you could have included it by cutting just one single fight.

[Rater202]

1: You're assuming tit would have been revealed by YhWach. When th blood War War was starting, Kubo claimed that he'd been planning to continuie Bleach for another 10 years.

It could have been that when he finally got around to it, he'd intended to have Ywach defeated and then have something akin to what was in the novels take place as sort of a capper, explaining the actions of his villains and why the setting was the way it was.

2: We know for a fact that his editors gave him a hard deadline, a set number of chapters he had to finish the story. Even if there was no other interference, that in and of itself is enough to yay that the editors share part of the blame for how rushed the story was.

3: I didn't just blame the editors. I also mentioned that Kubo's health was failing at the time. Which it was.

About a year after Bleach ended he went on Twitter and explained that between his failing health and the shear stress he was under that he seriously considered abandonding Bleach and leaving it unfinished. The only reason we got any ending at ll was that he received a letter from a terminally ill child who said that waiting for the next chapter of Bleach every week was what gave him the motivation to see things through to the end instead of just giving up.

If Kubo's health was that poor, then it's no wonder the arc had problems. Between that and the deadlines he was probably just making check marks off his outline.

4: Incidentally, we also know that Kubo has memory problems. He's on record as having stated that he occasionally had to go back and reread earlier chapters to see if he had fired off certain chekov's guns or explained certain concepts.

[BloodSquirrel]

1: You're assuming tit would have been revealed by YhWach. When th blood War War was starting, Kubo claimed that he'd been planning to continuie Bleach for another 10 years.

It could have been that when he finally got around to it, he'd intended to have Ywach defeated and then have something akin to what was in the novels take place as sort of a capper, explaining the actions of his villains and why the setting was the way it was.

2: We know for a fact that his editors gave him a hard deadline, a set number of chapters he had to finish the story. Even if there was no other interference, that in and of itself is enough to yay that the editors share part of the blame for how rushed the story was.

3: I didn't just blame the editors. I also mentioned that Kubo's health was failing at the time. Which it was.

About a year after Bleach ended he went on Twitter and explained that between his failing health and the shear stress he was under that he seriously considered abandonding Bleach and leaving it unfinished. The only reason we got any ending at ll was that he received a letter from a terminally ill child who said that waiting for the next chapter of Bleach every week was what gave him the motivation to see things through to the end instead of just giving up.

If Kubo's health was that poor, then it's no wonder the arc had problems. Between that and the deadlines he was probably just making check marks off his outline.

4: Incidentally, we also know that Kubo has memory problems. He's on record as having stated that he occasionally had to go back and reread earlier chapters to see if he had fired off certain chekov's guns or explained certain concepts.

Again, none of these excuses match the facts on the ground: we don't know what Kubo might have put into the manga, but we know what he did put into the manga, and what he put in the manga was a main villain whose behavior for- and I'm using a precise number here- 99.5% of the arc contradicts what he claims his motivation was in the final 0.5% of the arc.

We also know that the story arc was 206 chapters long. We also also know that by the time the manga was a whole year+ from finishing, we were already going into the final set of fights between the elite 4 and Ywach himself. We also also also know that, in the second to last chapter, Kubo prioritized talking about Shuuhei's bankai instead of telling us whether Urahara, Yourichi, and Grimmjaw was still alive, or how they got Aizen back in jail.

Also, the story you're telling is self-contradictory- Kubo wanted to quit already because he was in failing health, but it was his editors who rushed him?

The core problem here is that manga didn't need another 200 chapters- it needed focus. No matter what point in time you pick to claim that Kubo was handed a deadline, you can look both before and after that point and see that the story arc still had massive structural problems and misplaced priorities. The earlier you pick, the more of those 206 chapters can be identified as being wasted when Kubo should have know he needed to wrap things up. The later you pick, the more committed the story arc already was to the direction it ultimately took.

And, to be completely frank, I don't really care what Kubo says after the fact. Creators have a long history of framing the events in a way that flatters them. I'm just not impressed by Kubo claiming that he had all of these ideas when there's no evidence that he had any of them in mind when actually writing the manga. I find it far more plausible that he came up with most of it afterward when his friends kept bugging him about the manga's plot holes. Which is why it would be nice if those friends could get an advanced summary of the next story arc and bug him about those things now so that we don't have to wait for another tie-in novel to answer a whole new host of unanswered questions.

[LaZodiac]

You can be forced to rush to finish something and still feel like "I don't wanna do this this sucks". Those thoughts are not mutually exclusive. He has a contract and his editors put the pressure on him, and that MADE him want to give up and move on. That isn't contradictory at all.

That aside, while you're right that he might just be lying, I don't believe it. Kubo's said many times in interviews that he hated working under the system they had him in, and it was only the allowance of "oh you can just do whatever, when you wish, no deadline" is why he did Burn the Witch, and he's said he's having a LOT more fun with it. So it all adds up.

NOW THAT BEING SAID; he's not a very good writer, regardless of his plans. Rater is right that he had a lot of these ideas he wanted to get in, and even assuming he had editors who helped instead of hurt his quality of work... it likely wouldn't have turned out all that great. Burn the Witch is done without any of that pressure, and is an absolute mess, for example.

[Anonymouswizard]

Speaking of Burn the Witch, is it worth checking out the serialisation? Plus did he get rid of that one character's knickers obsession?

Seriously, out of everything in the one shot it was the only thing that came across as annoyingly unauthentic to me.

[LaZodiac]

Speaking of Burn the Witch, is it worth checking out the serialisation? Plus did he get rid of that one character's knickers obsession?

Seriously, out of everything in the one shot it was the only thing that came across as annoyingly unauthentic to me.

They did get rid of that, yeah. It's definitely not worth looking at the serialization- in part because it's just three chapters right now, so not much TO read, but it's just kinda bleh.

Some highlights though!

The Good
- Kubo continues to just casually put queer characters in his works, and this time they're not even that bad. The main "antagonist" of this first arc, is a lesbian with only a slight obsession of love for one of the protagonists. This is an improvement and one of the things I'm most looking forward to seeing if it plays out well at all.
- The art is ****ing phenominal like, 80% of the time. Some of the leaders of Wingbind have terrible ****ing designs (the church mom with a crotch window on her robes, the explicit nazi character, the old man who lives in a pot) but the rest are amazing.
- The Wingbind leader who looks like the bomb quincy and Renji had a kid draws his magic sigils using graffiti spray cans and it owns actually.
- Some of the lore stuff is good, or at least interesting. The legendary dragons each based off a fairy tale is neat! The implication that our protag (Bargo I think?) is the Sword in the Stone dragon is neat if a bit "protagonist gets to be super cool by nature".
- They did make Bargo less horny
- Some of the sight gags were good; mainly the fact that in order to read the shinigami newspaper you need to blatt some magic at a regular newspaper which is actually pretty funny, if stupid.

The Bad
- I mean it's still Kubo's writing, up and down. Everyone is super weird in a way that feels uncomfortable. The intended plot point of the Asuka like girl being like "**** fairy tales they're for losers they're fake" just does not work, and it's kind of the lynchpin of the entire set of chapters.
- The idea that our protagonist is this super special awesome guy that some of the Wingbind leaders want to kill and some want to protect feels very same-y, as does this big council of legendary powerful dudes and dudettes.
- Kubo stop putting nazis in your work challenge. I know 100% that it's purely for the aesthetic but also this person's first and last name both start with S and the fancy introduction to this character just straight up puts the thunderbolt insignia in with those S's and please, just stop. Stop it. Put it down please.
- The fact that this is in canon with Bleach makes everything feel really ****ed up. They make explicit reference to how the east treats Dragons differently and the only implication one can take is that the UK branch of Soul Society has decided to just use human souls as a free resource to exploit which is ****ed as all hell. This really just shouldn't be connected to Bleach, because it makes everything it does carry the weight of that series.

[Anonymouswizard]

That's a shame. There was potential, even if it was 'glorious trainwreck' potential.

But wait, I thought the two witch girls were the clear protagonists? Horny Knickers Creep was by far the most boring character in the one-shot, why would you focus on him? Especially if you've taken away his only noticeable character trait. Implying he's related to a massive sword won't make him interesting.

Yeah, guess I'll skip BTW for now.

[BloodSquirrel]

You can be forced to rush to finish something and still feel like "I don't wanna do this this sucks". Those thoughts are not mutually exclusive. He has a contract and his editors put the pressure on him, and that MADE him want to give up and move on. That isn't contradictory at all.

That story doesn't support the premise it's constructed to support, however- the claim is that Bleach was rushed, even though the last story arc was almost a third of the manga and largely directionless. There's no point where it appears during the TYBW that Kubo was rushing to get anywhere.



That aside, while you're right that he might just be lying, I don't believe it. Kubo's said many times in interviews that he hated working under the system they had him in, and it was only the allowance of "oh you can just do whatever, when you wish, no deadline" is why he did Burn the Witch, and he's said he's having a LOT more fun with it. So it all adds up.

The problem is that it's a massive leap from there to claim that Kubo had specific, detailed plans for the next ten years of Bleach that his editors derailed, or that the only reason we didn't get an explanation of Ywach's motives was that Kubo was totally planning on getting to it later.

I can believe that Kubo was bored and frustrated, and that it affected the quality of his writing. But it affected his writing by making him lazily default to just putting a bunch of fights onto the page rather than spending time thinking about his plot structure, not because he consciously decided to save all of that plot stuff for the extra 20 chapters of exposition that was supposed to follow the final battle which he just didn't get to.



NOW THAT BEING SAID; he's not a very good writer, regardless of his plans. Rater is right that he had a lot of these ideas he wanted to get in, and even assuming he had editors who helped instead of hurt his quality of work... it likely wouldn't have turned out all that great. Burn the Witch is done without any of that pressure, and is an absolute mess, for example.

I wouldn't say that it's an absolute mess, but it's clearly just Kubo playing around. He isn't carefully laying the groundwork for something that is supposed to last for another 10-20 years.

And I get the same feeling from the new Bleach chapter too. It feels more like a one-and-done reunion chapter than the start of a new series, unresolved plot notwithstanding. It sort of blows its load by telling us about how the captains are being sent to hell right off, instead of slowly setting up what could have been an interesting mystery to be revealed later. I don't get the sense from it that there's a real story there that Kubo is itching to tell- it's just another cool idea he had, packing in with some random slice-of-life type stuff.



- The fact that this is in canon with Bleach makes everything feel really ****ed up. They make explicit reference to how the east treats Dragons differently and the only implication one can take is that the UK branch of Soul Society has decided to just use human souls as a free resource to exploit which is ****ed as all hell. This really just shouldn't be connected to Bleach, because it makes everything it does carry the weight of that series.

It's not really clear to me how any of BTW's lore maps onto Bleach, largely because the later's lore was never really that well-developed in the first place. The connection feels more like an easter egg than anything else.

[Rater202]

You can be forced to rush to finish something and still feel like "I don't wanna do this this sucks". Those thoughts are not mutually exclusive. He has a contract and his editors put the pressure on him, and that MADE him want to give up and move on. That isn't contradictory at all.

The facts of the matters are 1: Kubo was subject to severe editorial demand at the time and the editors just... Weren't doing their jobs, just demanding he burn through the story.

2: Kubo was suffering from major health problems at the time and just starting to burn out.

3: Kubo in general is just kind of... Bad at remembering to explain stuff. In the first couple of arcs he had editors who did their jobs and helped him stay on track and keep his ideas coherant. In later arcs, not so much.


NOW THAT BEING SAID; he's not a very good writer, regardless of his plans. Rater is right that he had a lot of these ideas he wanted to get in, and even assuming he had editors who helped instead of hurt his quality of work... it likely wouldn't have turned out all that great. Burn the Witch is done without any of that pressure, and is an absolute mess, for example.

I think this might swing the other way too much. Kubo does have an admitted problem with memory and I think it's clear from any given example of his works that he does characters first and plot second.

He does need someone to help him keep his thoughts straight and form a proper outline.

The Novels are a good example of this: Kubo tells his ideas to someone, they work together to form an outline, the other guy writes it, and Kubo proofreads and makes sure everything is expressed properly and... They're good! Kind of crazy, but they're good.

It seems like Burn the Witch is a bit too much... Overcompensating for the problems with the orignal bleach by just not having any oversite at all.

Nobody's first draft is great. Editors exist for a reason, even if some of them are bad.

And yes, the fact that there are only 4 kinds of souls in Bleach canon... Dragons are either humans, shinigami, quincy, or hollows. We know that animals do have souls but... Nothing suggests that they don't follow the same pattern.

And at least some dragons are sapient.

Between that and the causal mention that their Eastern Counterparts just indiscriminately slaughter their dragons and it becomes very apparent that dragons are just an exotic form of hollow.

The fact that contact with dragons by people who aren't witches results in an "infection" that lets you see dragons but also turns you into one? We know that contact with Hollows by non-shinigami results in being infected with Hollow essence, which was one of several factors that resulted in Sado and Orihime's spiritual powers awakening as Fullbringers... You know, hollowfied humans?

Also, the fct that Balgo's spiritual powers being awakened literally makes him property in the eyes of Wingbind—they literally put him in a salve collar at the end of the one shot—makes it even more fricked up. "Nope, you're a dragon now."

Re: th Arc being rushed.

The length of an arc has no bearing on how rushed it is. IF it was planned to be over 400 chapters long then it being only 20oish chapters long makes it rushed. Kubo has stated that Aizen's defeat was supposed to be the exact middle of Bleach but that was before the Lost Agent arc was pushed back.

And like... The Lost Agent and Blood War Arcs consist mostly of rushing from fight to fight and plot point to plot point with very little time to set it up or let things sink in.

Toward's the end, the Blood War Arc legitimately feels like Kubo was just shotgunning checkpoints on an outline and just didn't care if it made sense anymore. This would be consistent both with his being burned out from th pressure editorial was putting on him and wanting to get it done ASAP lest his health crap out on him before it can finish, both of which we know are true.

The best part of the respective arcs were the parts that were set up well in advance and therefore didn't need more time than they had.

[LaZodiac]

That's a shame. There was potential, even if it was 'glorious trainwreck' potential.

But wait, I thought the two witch girls were the clear protagonists? Horny Knickers Creep was by far the most boring character in the one-shot, why would you focus on him? Especially if you've taken away his only noticeable character trait. Implying he's related to a massive sword won't make him interesting.

Yeah, guess I'll skip BTW for now.

Oh no the two girls are still the protagonists, he's just the third wheel tertiary protagonist.

He's not related to the sword, he's related to the STORY of the sword. He's likely going to become part dragon and be the Sword In The Stone dragon, like how the girl in BTW was the partner of the Cinderella dragon, who is likely going to become like that one.


That story doesn't support the premise it's constructed to support, however- the claim is that Bleach was rushed, even though the last story arc was almost a third of the manga and largely directionless. There's no point where it appears during the TYBW that Kubo was rushing to get anywhere.

It's not really clear to me how any of BTW's lore maps onto Bleach, largely because the later's lore was never really that well-developed in the first place. The connection feels more like an easter egg than anything else.

As Rater says below, rushed in comparison, but also by the time they announced "Bleach is ending this year" the pace became a shotgun of pacing. Hell, even before then, the Thousand Year Blood war goes rather fast, especially compared to the war arcs of its contemporaries.

What lore the Shinigami and Soul Society has actually maps up really well with stuff in BTW.



I think this might swing the other way too much. Kubo does have an admitted problem with memory and I think it's clear from any given example of his works that he does characters first and plot second.

Toward's the end, the Blood War Arc legitimately feels like Kubo was just shotgunning checkpoints on an outline and just didn't care if it made sense anymore. This would be consistent both with his being burned out from th pressure editorial was putting on him and wanting to get it done ASAP lest his health crap out on him before it can finish, both of which we know are true.

The best part of the respective arcs were the parts that were set up well in advance and therefore didn't need more time than they had.

I think he's also stated that his instinct when coming up with a plot point is "make a new character" as opposed to looking back and seeing who could fit in here.

Kenpachi's dance with Unohana is one of Bleach's best moments and it's been hinted at and alluded to for the whole series, for an example of what Kubo's writing can look like with focus and time to breath.

[BloodSquirrel]

The length of an arc has no bearing on how rushed it is. IF it was planned to be over 400 chapters long then it being only 20oish chapters long makes it rushed. Kubo has stated that Aizen's defeat was supposed to be the exact middle of Bleach but that was before the Lost Agent arc was pushed back.

The length of an arc is pretty relevant to how rushed it was. The TYBW wasn't a structurally complex story with a lot of complicated parts that needed time to be developed. It was, for the most part, "Bad guys show up and we fight them". There was
nothing about it that needed to be 400 chapters long. In fact, as you admit-



And like... The Lost Agent and Blood War Arcs consist mostly of rushing from fight to fight and plot point to plot point with very little time to set it up or let things sink in.

That isn't making the case for a story arc that needed 400 chapters to tell, that's making the case for a story arc that was lacking an emotional core and purpose and was just filling the time with fights and making promises that it didn't know how to pay off. If you're rushing from fight to fight to fight, then you cut one of those fights to make room for the story part.

200 chapters is a lot. Naruto's final story arc wasn't much longer than that, and it managed to introduce and wrap up just as many plot threads, plus all of the pre-existing ones that the series went into the finale with (It had a lot more than Bleach did), and it was pretty bloated in its own right.



Toward's the end, the Blood War Arc legitimately feels like Kubo was just shotgunning checkpoints on an outline and just didn't care if it made sense anymore. This would be consistent both with his being burned out from th pressure editorial was putting on him and wanting to get it done ASAP lest his health crap out on him before it can finish, both of which we know are true.

This would make sense if those checkpoints were crucial to wrapping up the story- but they weren't. We really didn't need to see Ichigo's bankai break, get fixed, break again, and then... turn into something else? We didn't need to see Gerard die 100 times just to keep coming back.

[BloodSquirrel]

As Rater says below, rushed in comparison, but also by the time they announced "Bleach is ending this year" the pace became a shotgun of pacing. Hell, even before then, the Thousand Year Blood war goes rather fast, especially compared to the war arcs of its contemporaries.

Naruto's final arc covered far more narrative ground in about the same number of chapters. I'm not sure by what metric you can sent it went "rather fast", other than that, in retrospect, not much actually happened during the whole thing.

[Rater202]

I think he's also stated that his instinct when coming up with a plot point is "make a new character" as opposed to looking back and seeing who could fit in here.

Kenpachi's dance with Unohana is one of Bleach's best moments and it's been hinted at and alluded to for the whole series, for an example of what Kubo's writing can look like with focus and time to breath.

Yeah. There's that... And people at the time complained about it being kind of an asspull, but the Flashback mini-arc and its aftermath is another good example.

We had, sometimes going way to back the early part of the manga, 1: The idea that there was something special about Masaki. 2: Ichigo's bizarre resemblance to Kaine Shiba. 3: Isshin's statement about how slaying the Grand Fisher did not satisfy his desire to avenge Masaki, 4: The fact that Isshin and Ryuken clearly have a long history with each other and with Urahara 4: Ichigo's inner hollow not acting consistently with how the visored got their hollows and describe their's as acting. 5: Ichigo's Inner Hollow looking him dead in the eye and saying "I am Zangetsu" with an expression of "oh my god you are such an idiot." 6: Aizen's claims that he'd been aware of Ichigo literally all of his life. and 7: In the mini-arc of Ichigo awakening his own spiritual power after the donated power that Rukia gave him was destroyed, Ichigo explcitly copies Uryu's Quincy technique for tracking spiritual power and identifying human power from Shinigami to find his Zanpakuto and afterward Zangetsu teaches him an air walking technique that is identical to how Uryu would describe the Quincy air walking an high speed movement techniques later in the same arc.

And, possibly, Tsukishima rewriting himself into Yuzu and Karin's memories as "Cousin Shu," who they met a the funeral of a great uncle. The only known weakness of Book of The End is that Tsukishima has to take the place of someone when he inserts himself into your past, so... It is entirely possible that that was subtle foreshadowing of the fact that Uryu is Ichigo's second cousin*

With all of that context... The only part of that mini-arc and the follow-up of Ichigo's Zanpakuto being reforged that wasn't either set up in advance or practically spelled out to us was the fact that the old man as a representation of Ichigo's repressed Quincy powers... And, well, people had been joking about how Yhwach looked like Zangetsu literally from the moment we got a Yhwach face reveal.

...and there was a promotional image of Ichigo at the bottom and all of his "rivals" stacked on top of each other with a silhouette of Zangetsu being at the top.

So...Yeah. It got exactly as much time as it needed. Could it have been better? Yeah, but...

*Can I say that the fact that Uryu is Ichigo's cousin and the implication that they'd met each other in that context makes the "Quincy Archer hates you" mini-arc from the beginning of the manga funnier in context? IT Introduces Uryu as someone that Ichigo just doesn't know about or recognize despite having been in the same classes for years and Uryu is somewhat frustrated by Ichigo's ignornace of Quincy as a concept and the rivalry between Shinigami and Quincy.

Uryu: "...I waited all my life to test myself against a Shinigami... And it's my cousin. My cousin... Who as far as I know is literally the only other living Quincy besides me and my dad. And he has both completly forgotten that I exist, and has no idea what the implications of a Quincy becoming a Shinigami are or even that Quincy are a thing. God ****ing Damn It. Okay, I can work with this."

[Anonymouswizard]

Oh no the two girls are still the protagonists, he's just the third wheel tertiary protagonist.

He's not related to the sword, he's related to the STORY of the sword. He's likely going to become part dragon and be the Sword In The Stone dragon, like how the girl in BTW was the partner of the Cinderella dragon, who is likely going to become like that one.

Ah, okay. He's the 'boys totally can't related to anything with boobs' character. So at least there's still reason to hate him.

Plus, I still fully expect him to end up with a big sword if BTW continues. Probably Excalibur, despite it's shaky relationship with the stone and the fact that it shouldn't be that large.


At the core of Bleach is a decent story with good setup, but the way Kubo works means it's buried under a lot of bloat. With good editing or a fast pace it can work, but for most of the series he didn't have either. Plus I think he kind of needs the former for the latter.

[BloodSquirrel]

At the core of Bleach is a decent story with good setup, but the way Kubo works means it's buried under a lot of bloat. With good editing or a fast pace it can work, but for most of the series he didn't have either. Plus I think he kind of needs the former for the latter.

As I've noted before, he works best with a blank slate and a limited run. Part of what made the SS arc good was that he had a lot of open space to freely explore what he wanted and not a lot of baggage going in to weight him down. For the rest of the manga, the Gotei 13 kept sucking the air out of the room in every story arc, and Kubo wasn't very good at moving them forward as characters.

Burn the Witch, for whatever failings it has, feels like Kubo still has a handle on what the story is supposed to be doing. It's a bit thin so far, but it feels more like early Bleach where he was telling one smaller story at a time.

[Rater202]

Ah, okay. He's the 'boys totally can't related to anything with boobs' character. So at least there's still reason to hate him.

Plus, I still fully expect him to end up with a big sword if BTW continues. Probably Excalibur, despite it's shaky relationship with the stone and the fact that it shouldn't be that large.

He's already turned a flute into a lightsaber.

[LaZodiac]

Naruto's final arc covered far more narrative ground in about the same number of chapters. I'm not sure by what metric you can sent it went "rather fast", other than that, in retrospect, not much actually happened during the whole thing.

Bleach chapters are over fast. Not much dialogue and even the dialogue there tends to go pretty quickly, or flows well enough you don't hit a feeling of boredom. Naruto chapters dragged so much.


Yeah. There's that... And people at the time complained about it being kind of an asspull, but the Flashback mini-arc and its aftermath is another good example.

We had, sometimes going way to back the early part of the manga, 1: The idea that there was something special about Masaki. 2: Ichigo's bizarre resemblance to Kaine Shiba. 3: Isshin's statement about how slaying the Grand Fisher did not satisfy his desire to avenge Masaki, 4: The fact that Isshin and Ryuken clearly have a long history with each other and with Urahara 4: Ichigo's inner hollow not acting consistently with how the visored got their hollows and describe their's as acting. 5: Ichigo's Inner Hollow looking him dead in the eye and saying "I am Zangetsu" with an expression of "oh my god you are such an idiot." 6: Aizen's claims that he'd been aware of Ichigo literally all of his life. and 7: In the mini-arc of Ichigo awakening his own spiritual power after the donated power that Rukia gave him was destroyed, Ichigo explcitly copies Uryu's Quincy technique for tracking spiritual power and identifying human power from Shinigami to find his Zanpakuto and afterward Zangetsu teaches him an air walking technique that is identical to how Uryu would describe the Quincy air walking an high speed movement techniques later in the same arc.

And, possibly, Tsukishima rewriting himself into Yuzu and Karin's memories as "Cousin Shu," who they met a the funeral of a great uncle. The only known weakness of Book of The End is that Tsukishima has to take the place of someone when he inserts himself into your past, so... It is entirely possible that that was subtle foreshadowing of the fact that Uryu is Ichigo's second cousin*

With all of that context... The only part of that mini-arc and the follow-up of Ichigo's Zanpakuto being reforged that wasn't either set up in advance or practically spelled out to us was the fact that the old man as a representation of Ichigo's repressed Quincy powers... And, well, people had been joking about how Yhwach looked like Zangetsu literally from the moment we got a Yhwach face reveal.

...and there was a promotional image of Ichigo at the bottom and all of his "rivals" stacked on top of each other with a silhouette of Zangetsu being at the top.

So...Yeah. It got exactly as much time as it needed. Could it have been better? Yeah, but...

*Can I say that the fact that Uryu is Ichigo's cousin and the implication that they'd met each other in that context makes the "Quincy Archer hates you" mini-arc from the beginning of the manga funnier in context? IT Introduces Uryu as someone that Ichigo just doesn't know about or recognize despite having been in the same classes for years and Uryu is somewhat frustrated by Ichigo's ignornace of Quincy as a concept and the rivalry between Shinigami and Quincy.

Uryu: "...I waited all my life to test myself against a Shinigami... And it's my cousin. My cousin... Who as far as I know is literally the only other living Quincy besides me and my dad. And he has both completly forgotten that I exist, and has no idea what the implications of a Quincy becoming a Shinigami are or even that Quincy are a thing. God ****ing Damn It. Okay, I can work with this."

From the people I've talked with, most people were BIG into the Kenpachi Unohana stuff, and anyone could see the stuff leading up to it.

I wish Ishida did more because "Ishida realizing he's related to Ichigo and just getting really annoyed by it" is a very funny idea.


Ah, okay. He's the 'boys totally can't related to anything with boobs' character. So at least there's still reason to hate him.

Plus, I still fully expect him to end up with a big sword if BTW continues. Probably Excalibur, despite it's shaky relationship with the stone and the fact that it shouldn't be that large.

At the core of Bleach is a decent story with good setup, but the way Kubo works means it's buried under a lot of bloat. With good editing or a fast pace it can work, but for most of the series he didn't have either. Plus I think he kind of needs the former for the latter.

As Rater said, he made a lightsaber out of a angelic chorus horn. It's sort of like a cavalry bugle, it kinda rules but also is so unbelievably stupid and I hate it and love it in equal measure.


He's already turned a flute into a lightsaber.

It was a heraldic angel's horn. If I recall, anyway, it's been awhile. In my head it is a little trumpet for honking.

[Rater202]

Backtracking a bit...

I like the unique powers that people have because it gives you an insight into the character.

Kenpachi's unique power, in its true form, grants him infinite power but not the ability to withstand it while transforming him into a berserking demon.

It is represented as a cute little girl with bright pink hair who loves candy and tea parties.

Those two facts together say a lot about who and what Kenpachi is.

[DeadMech]

I've only just watched the trailer for the thousand year blood arc and as someone who read it and wasn't super impressed or entertained at the time. I haven't mustered the interest to watch or read Burn the Witch...

That trailer is 100% hype and I'm in.

Bleach might not be the deepest story Or the most consistent. But it always had the aesthetic that blew everything else out of the water.

Half the reason I haven't watched or read One Piece is because of just how ugly and childish I found it's character designs when i first saw it. Is that fair to One Piece? No, probably not. Does it suggest I might be a shallow individual. Maybe.

The other reason of course being "I am how far behind now? Forget it."

[Ramza00]

Bleach is more than an aesthetic, even though the aesthetic is great. It is also a weird and alien world. Everything is different but it makes kind of sense.

For example Ichigo has no desires that is typical of a teenager but makes sense as an adult. Part of this is due to childhood he understood there is an afterlife and there is a place and proper role to things. The world is strange to his eyes, but he did not have the need to ask questions like a toddler in order to process and understand them. Ichigo tamps down his curiosity, the part that provides resistance yet also is the source of asking questions. It is not ironic that his rivals and mentors with Ichigo and Hat Man Kisuke are completely unlike him. Furthermore Ichigo had an idyllic childhood and it was not till he was 8 did he know tragedy with his mom dying. Ichigo is haunted by this and now this provided his compulsive drive of protecting people like a big brother, even though he simultaneously knows this is absurd for he has seen spirits in the after life since an earlier childhood years.

————

Likewise Soul Society, 13 squads, the Five Noble Families, the Lesser Noble Families, Central 46 and the Rukoun districts all make a kind of sense. People do not need food, thus production is fundamentally different in the after life, everything is more subsistence and there is not the driving force of class conflict where one group of people is trying to extort another group of people for taxes, money, production, etc. How much of human society would be different if you change key human drives and instinct, no wonder why Soul Society and this heaven seems alien.

Now the 13 squads they have spirit pressure but also have needs such as requiring food to survive, and their lifetime is insane some of the time where characters are 2000 years old and some of the captains are many times that in age. They have a purpose which is to preserve the recreation and flow of souls or everything topples. Like the recreation and flow of food in our real life, or perhaps money and other things tided to the economy.

Now everything else about soul society feelings alienating with a lack of bonds, memories of past life’s and lost family members, and so on. Sure you have new families and bonds, but I sense a lot of unprocessed trauma and loneliness. And that word is what drives the story with so many characters.

————

Lastly one of the highlights of Bleach are the backstories, but this is also one of the biggest flaws of the series. The backstories are self contained, good, and are a quick 1 page summary. For shallow backstories they are well developed and empathetic. But they rarely developed. Furthermore they are hit or miss and when you get 30 of them sometimes later ones do not land, and you feel the need to skip them even if they are short. Thankfully in later chapters we see some of the captains and vice captains shift from a back story arc to something else drive the conflict, like their own ego and blind spot to this particular issue driving the fight. Pride, Vanity, Greed, Glutony, Forcefulness, etc these very weird characters are so human sometimes in a series that is about loneliness.

[Rater202]

The corruption in Soul Society also makes a lot of sense.

Yamamoto was the most powerful Shinigami when he founded the 13 divisions and not a single Shinigami stronger than him has been born since then so he's still in charge.

Yamamoto's Zanpakuto is basically a man-portable WMD and he has enough raw power to use it indefinitely—it's mostly fear of collateral damage ha stops him from spamming it.

Yamamoto... Refuses to question orders. He refuses to second guess the rules.

Like, it's flat out said that execution is not the legal sentence for what Rukia did... and that in the grand scheme of things, a Shinigami giving their power to a mortal, while forbidden, is really only a minor offense. And yet, Yamamoto outright refuses to think "maybe something's up."

Central 46 and the nobles growing corrupt is pretty much an inevitable consequence of the biggest guy around refusing to question orders even if he disagrees with them. Because they have a walking nuke enforcing their every whim, nobody questions them, so over the generations... Yeah.

See also: The Blood War arc where the new Central 46 gives Kyoraku orders he disagrees with and he just says "no" and... Tha's the end of it, they have no other means of enforcing their will but 'the head captain does it."

Or how they didn't try to overturn Yamamoto's War Time decision to overturn the previous administration's complete bull****.

Once the Military is no longer following orders blindly... The corruption more or less dies. Even in the novel, the one corrupt noble big bad is opposed by the Shinigami

[Psyren]

I'm finally getting caught up on My Hero Academia (just started S3) and I'm definitely seeing a big contrast to Bleach. Main character has motivations other than "protect friends" which can often clash in interesting ways, the entire cast gets to shine at various points, the worldbuilding is stellar, the action is varied and exciting etc. I'm not saying all that to dunk on Bleach, but it is good to see subsequent shonen anime learning from some of their forebears' mistakes.

[danzibr]

October 2022 (for Japan)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8YBesRKq_U&feature=youtu.be
You just made my day.

So the whole point of Can't Fear Yoru Own Word is that Kubo was sharing some stuff about Bleach that he wanted to do but couldn't for various reasons, or explanations of things he had to cut for time,a dns o on with Ryōgo Narita, wh o thought it was all cool and asked if it would beokay to do something with that, so Kbo wrote up an outline and proofread the drafts.

Like.. Shuhei, the guy who looks like a blackhaired Ichigo but unlike Kaien it never comes up or gets explained? Kubo originally created him with the intent that he'd eventually be the protagonist of an arc, so his uncanny resemblance to Ichigo was a metajoke on his part about his "protagonist-like qualities." The plot of Can't Fear Your Own world is Shuhei, in his capacity as publisher of Shinigami Communications and an investigative Journalist, tracking people down to find out the truth of all that happened over the last couple of years.

Which is how, for example, we learn Ginjo's backstory: He goes to the Shiba compound in the Rukon and asks him his side of the story.

and as he's doing this, he ends up engrossed in yet another conspiracy.

Other things we learned from this novel 1: Following his Death, Yhwach's body was subjected to a process that turned into a replacement for the soul king. This process is horrifying and everyone who finds out how it worked, and that the original Soul King was also subjected to it, unanimously agrees that Aizen had a valid point.

2: The Royal Guard trained up Ichigo not to fight Yhwach but to do this to Ichigo, having figured that the loss of the orignal Soul King was inevitable, and its only the fact that Yhwach absorbed the remains of the original that spared him this fate.

3: Any entity that combines the traits of Living Human, Shinigami, Hollow, and Quincy can potentially become a Soul King.

4: The Noble that was married to and then murdered Tousen's friend belongs to a family whose job is just to monitor everything in Soul Society. He knows exactly how the orignal Soul King came to be... and decides that since the original Five Noble Famiys who founded Soul Society got away with something utterly inexcusable that he has the right to be as big of a bastard as he wants.

5: Yhwach was one of The Soul King's removed organs—his "Almighty Power" incarnated as a human.

6: Gremmy was the Soul King's Brain.

7: The portion of her soul that was ripped out of Matsumoto in her backstory by Aizen's men in order to make his Hogyoku was the nail that affixed the Soul King's chain of fate to his body. It embedded itself in a random soul and has been passing itself down a lineage ever since.

8: Fullbringer's are essentially reality warpers. One of the bad guy's minions is a fullbringer woman who inherited the Soul King's chain under the same circumstances. Her Spiritual Power is comparable to Aizen's as a shinigami and she can do things like turn intangible, manipulate organic matter at the atomic level to create a bland paste that is perfectly sustaining to human life if eaten, and turn a lake into a water dragon and a chunk of the earth into a fire dragon.

None of these are "her" Fullbring. she doesn't have her own Fullbring,becuase she doesn't have the capacity for sentimentality needed to channel a power through a beloved personal item.

9: The inconsistency with Ise's Zanpakuto is explained: In addition to the Shashi that draw out their wilder's hidden power, Nimaiya aslo forged unique swords that behaved in the same pattern, one ofr each of the Five Noble Clans of Soul society, that can be used by members of those clans.

In addition to Ise's God Killing Sword, the Kuchki Clan's family Zampakuto is Muramasa from the Zanpkuto Rebellion Arc(he doesn't appear but despite that arc being non-canon Muramasa is more or less described as being exactly the same, sans not being someone's personal Zanpakuto) and the big bad's family has a Zampakuto whose Shikai can counter any Zanpakuto ability and whose Bankai can replicate any Zampakuo ability that its current wielder has witnessed—with the caveat that you use your own power to fuel it.

The remaining Heridatry Zanpkuto—and whether the Shiba Clan still has theirs—are unrevealed.

10: Ichibe has the power to revive himself from death as long as someone remembers his name, and he can resurrect the other members of Squad Zero by chanting their names.

11: Squad Zero answers directly to the Noble Houses. The Noble houses, if they vote unanimously, can disband Central 46 and assume absolute control of Soul Society. This is currently impossible however due to the Shiba Clan's effective exile and lack of a head—though the big bad wants them reinstated for exactly this purpose.

12: Isshin is apparently the rightful head of the Shiba Clan, though neither he nor Ichigo are interested in assuming those duties.

13: Preteens are fully capable of being Clan HEads in soul society, as the Big Bad flat out says "Maybe one of his daughters would be interested" when told the above.

14: If you survive Ashwuallen, the powers Yhwach stole from you will eventually come back, the powers he stole from you are returned upon death.

15: The Forest of Menos Arc from the anime is canon.(to be fair, Kubo intended to put it in the manga)

16: This guy exists.
https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/hikone_ubiginu_bbs_2_6.png

1: Orihime being a fullbringer is confirmed in the novel.

2: Yhwach presents himself as the son of the soul king and, per the Novel, is one of his autonomous organs—Yhwach's Schrift isn't The Almighty so much as Yhwach himself is The Almighty personified.

So it's less that the original Soul King had Quincy in him so much as Quincy powers are derived from an aspect of his own power.

The orignal Soul King was essentially a unique entity. The replacement Soul Kings are just... Rough approximations.

Ginjo has basically the same backstory as Ichigo—a human with both soul reaper and Quincy ancestry, whose mother was attacked by a hollo and infected and passed on that hallow essence when he was gestating in her womb, resulting in a natural hybrid of all four souls, who then had his spiritual powers awakened by a donation of power from a shinigami.

The implication is that the reason Soul Society claimed his body was becuase they wanted his corpse as a backup Soul King, and the big bad of the novel tries to re-kill Ginjo in sou society to remove him as a potential soul king since his own lan involves replacing the Soul King with Hikone in order to tweak the universe to be more to his liking.

Per the backstory revealed in the novel: Originally, the spiritual world and the material world were one and the same and everyone was immortal. However, things were... chaotic. Hollows rather than corrupted human souls just... Sort of spontaneously came into existence, some of whom were born as Menos or even Vasto Lordes. Barragan is explicitly stated to have been born in this time, as based on his one-shot manga in the Masks databook Ulquiorra probably was as well.

The Soul King was sort of a defense mechanism: A ridiculously overpowered humanoid eldritch abomination that destroyed hollows. However, when he destroyed them, they were destroyed utterly. Which included the entities they devoured.

Furthermore, over time a horrid abyss began to open in reality... Hell.

The five families that ruled the world grew fearful of the Soul King's power, saw hell as a problem, and wished to stabilize reality...

So they bound the Soul King, removed his arms and legs, disemboweled and lobotomized him, and used his hollowed-out living corpse as the lynchpin of a ritual that broke the universe.

The spiritual world was permanently torn from the material world, and was in turn split into Hueco Mundo and Soul Society. The Material world was then used as a "lid" to contain Hell, which was repurposed as a ghetto for unwanted souls or beings that don't fit into the system.

Mostly evil people... But you'll notice that hollows that go to Hell are still hollows which indicates that they're probably still composed of all the souls they ate. Not to mention what the Hell teaser chapter revealed about Shinigami funerary rites.

In BLeach's cosmology, the reason people die is becuase some people committed unprovoked deicide out of fear.

I think we've all noted how Bleach's afterlife sucks much bad... It's that way becuase it was never supposed to exist.

Aizen and Yhewach weren't bad guys becuase of what they wanted to do. They were bad guys becuase of the extremes they were willing to go to do it.

Bleach isn't a conflict between good and evil. It's a conflict between "protect the current status quo and look on the bright side" vs "try to change to a better system at the cost of a hell of a lot of lives."

The Five Noble Family of t Soul Society are the descendants of the people who did that to the Soul King.
Holy smokes man. Your Bleach knowledge is next level. Very interesting.

I'm finally getting caught up on My Hero Academia (just started S3) and I'm definitely seeing a big contrast to Bleach. Main character has motivations other than "protect friends" which can often clash in interesting ways, the entire cast gets to shine at various points, the worldbuilding is stellar, the action is varied and exciting etc. I'm not saying all that to dunk on Bleach, but it is good to see subsequent shonen anime learning from some of their forebears' mistakes.
Biggest pro for MHA: it has All Might.

[Psyren]

Biggest pro for MHA: it has All Might.

All Might is indeed the best shonen mentor figure I've seen in awhile. It's nice when they can come up with believable flaws for a mentor that aren't just "lazy," "pervert," "drunk," or some mixture of the three.

[LaZodiac]

All Might is indeed the best shonen mentor figure I've seen in awhile. It's nice when they can come up with believable flaws for a mentor that aren't just "lazy," "pervert," "drunk," or some mixture of the three.

The best part about All Might as a mentor is that he's equal parts outstanding as he is ****ing garbage. He is an amazing, inspirational, overwhelming inspiration.

He is one of the worst actual teachers I've ever seen. Not trying to rip on the man, but that Teaching For Dummies book REALLY helped, and it's not his fault that he's a savant who's never HAD to learn, so never learned TO learn, and thus can't teach for ****.

I'm trying to think if anyone in Bleach is like that; a unique twist on a standard figure (All Might being a rather unique twist on the mentor figure, in that his mentoring is all in inspiration and ideals, not abilities).

[Psyren]

Totally agreed. He's one of the worst teachers I've ever seen in shonen. He's also one of the most heroic, courageous and dedicated characters I've seen too. And of course, he had the good fortune of encountering, and later empowering, one of the most intelligent and strategic shonen protagonists I've seen in a long time.

Okay, I'll gush about MHA another time, this is a Bleach thread :smallbiggrin:

[LaZodiac]

Honestly that's what I miss about the earliest of early Bleach. Ichigo used to be SMART. He used to be clever, and wily. A punk who was actually secretly pretty bright.

[Rater202]

Honestly that's what I miss about the earliest of early Bleach. Ichigo used to be SMART. He used to be clever, and wily. A punk who was actually secretly pretty bright.

I mean, that never really went away—after the time skip he's shown to be an honor student that all the clubs and sports teams are fighting over and he's also got a part-time job—it just stopped being relevant.

A lot of shonen anime tie intelligence directly to Wisdom, tactical knowledge, and the ability to learn new skills.

Ichigo... Quite realistically, never really has an opportunity to learn any of that. Why doesn't he cast Kido spells? He's always too busy mastering the basic powers/cheating the system to get strong enough/making sure the hollow half of his soul doesn't eat the rest of of him to crack open a spellbook.

why does his fighting style mostly rely on charging, attacking, or blasting? Because a brute force approach always worked with the punks who'd pick fights with him or Sado or the little ****s who'd vandalize graves and memorials so that's what he defaults to and he never really has an opportunity to learn more than the basics of shinigami combat.

Don't matter how smart you are if you don't have an opportunity to learn or don't care to learn something.

...And well, Bleach also realistically establishes that intelligence is not the same as wisdom, observational skills, or common sense. Ichigo is near the top of the class but misreads Uryu's name and has no idea who it is despite them having been in the same class for years... and are related... And it being implied that they met at a funeral where they were introduced to each other as cousins.

And wasn't Orihime presented as being the best student in the class? Despite... Being Orihime.

[Ramza00]

Honestly that's what I miss about the earliest of early Bleach. Ichigo used to be SMART. He used to be clever, and wily. A punk who was actually secretly pretty bright.

Yep an intuitive / kinesthetic learning who did not ask questions and thus does not talk much (except when he talks too much with conflict / bravado.)

Which makes him interesting for all his opponents are either people who have all the knowledge due to cultural experience living in the culture, or are the nerdy people who have figured the further beyond veils more than the cloister-etic soul society.

[DeadMech]

The best part about All Might as a mentor is that he's equal parts outstanding as he is ****ing garbage. He is an amazing, inspirational, overwhelming inspiration.

He is one of the worst actual teachers I've ever seen. Not trying to rip on the man, but that Teaching For Dummies book REALLY helped, and it's not his fault that he's a savant who's never HAD to learn, so never learned TO learn, and thus can't teach for ****.

I'm trying to think if anyone in Bleach is like that; a unique twist on a standard figure (All Might being a rather unique twist on the mentor figure, in that his mentoring is all in inspiration and ideals, not abilities).

... Zaraki maybe.

Okay so Kenpachi is the captain of the 11th division and is the only Captain we see really training with their underlings that I can remember. He is a natural fighting prodigy who relies on a head on brute strength approach. His underlings are inspired by him and aspire to replicate his prowess. Given that one of his training montage power ups was actually being taught to hold a sword in two hands it's questionable what of value he can teach his subordinates. Aside from perhaps just resilience as he steam rolls through them en mass.

[LaZodiac]

I mean, that never really went away—after the time skip he's shown to be an honor student that all the clubs and sports teams are fighting over and he's also got a part-time job—it just stopped being relevant.

A lot of shonen anime tie intelligence directly to Wisdom, tactical knowledge, and the ability to learn new skills.

Ichigo... Quite realistically, never really has an opportunity to learn any of that. Why doesn't he cast Kido spells? He's always too busy mastering the basic powers/cheating the system to get strong enough/making sure the hollow half of his soul doesn't eat the rest of of him to crack open a spellbook.

why does his fighting style mostly rely on charging, attacking, or blasting? Because a brute force approach always worked with the punks who'd pick fights with him or Sado or the little ****s who'd vandalize graves and memorials so that's what he defaults to and he never really has an opportunity to learn more than the basics of shinigami combat.

Don't matter how smart you are if you don't have an opportunity to learn or don't care to learn something.

...And well, Bleach also realistically establishes that intelligence is not the same as wisdom, observational skills, or common sense. Ichigo is near the top of the class but misreads Uryu's name and has no idea who it is despite them having been in the same class for years... and are related... And it being implied that they met at a funeral where they were introduced to each other as cousins.

And wasn't Orihime presented as being the best student in the class? Despite... Being Orihime.

That's all well and good but I think it'd be better if his intelligence was more relevant. Like how Dragonball eventually gave way to nothing but raw intense power blasts- it'd be cooler if technique and skill and intellect was more important to the fights than raw power for everyone.

[Lord Raziere]

That's all well and good but I think it'd be better if his intelligence was more relevant. Like how Dragonball eventually gave way to nothing but raw intense power blasts- it'd be cooler if technique and skill and intellect was more important to the fights than raw power for everyone.

Yeah like, DBZ has incredible power to blast planets apart and all they do with it is blast and punch? come on, have some imagination.

[Anonymouswizard]

That's all well and good but I think it'd be better if his intelligence was more relevant. Like how Dragonball eventually gave way to nothing but raw intense power blasts- it'd be cooler if technique and skill and intellect was more important to the fights than raw power for everyone.

I think that's one of the reasons that Fullmetal Alchemist is so good. No massive powerups, the two strongest characters have practically no fighting skills, and the third strongest has their best moments when having to overcome setbacks.

Meanwhile I often forget that Ichigo is supposed to be intelligent, it just doesn't matter, and unlike Edward he's never really shown having to deduce information.

[Vahnavoi]

Zaraki Kenpachi's most interesting moments in the series are when he either pays the price for being a dumb brute or has to step outside that archetype. Perhaps more hilariously, two of his opponents lose because they try to out-Kenpachi Kenpachi instead of playing to their own strengths. Gremmy being the better example, because his demise due to trying to copy Kenpachi foreshadows Kenpachi ripping himself apart (twice!) later. Turns out, no-one can withstand power overwhelming - not even the guy with that power.

[Ramza00]

Zaraki Kenpachi's most interesting moments in the series are when he either pays the price for being a dumb brute or has to step outside that archetype. Perhaps more hilariously, two of his opponents lose because they try to out-Kenpachi Kenpachi instead of playing to their own strengths. Gremmy being the better example, because his demise due to trying to copy Kenpachi foreshadows Kenpachi ripping himself apart (twice!) later. Turns out, no-one can withstand power overwhelming - not even the guy with that power.

Grammy lost out of ego and past / developmental reasons. He is a brain without a body, yet he is still vulnerable. Thus imagination is all he got, and he must imagine things his body lacks that others have naturally due to drive, instinct, sensory proprioception aka sensory feedback, etc.

When you have power bestowal as your power set it messes you up psychologically, what is real when one can modify the real to such an extent to gratify the ego, and thus anything that assaults the ego ideal must be challenged on the knife’s domain for you wounded it in a narcissistic injury kind of way. Much like giving a teenager the power to read and manipulate emotions will slowly turn her or him into a shallow sociopath for teenagers hate negative feedback from their peers.

Thus Zenpachi is super-effective against such an opponent and the fates were not smiling on Grammy that day by assigning him that specific captain as his opponent.

[LaZodiac]

I think that's one of the reasons that Fullmetal Alchemist is so good. No massive powerups, the two strongest characters have practically no fighting skills, and the third strongest has their best moments when having to overcome setbacks.

Meanwhile I often forget that Ichigo is supposed to be intelligent, it just doesn't matter, and unlike Edward he's never really shown having to deduce information.

The one, ONE time someone gets a big boost to their abilities... everyone gets it, because they did a thing that undoes a limiter on the world, and even then all it's really used for is "slightly better than normal effects" because FMA is basically perfect, and the ideal I strive for every day.

Meanwhile Ichigo just blasts his sword kamehameha at god and since we're run out of time to finish the series proper it kills him.

[Anonymouswizard]

The one, ONE time someone gets a big boost to their abilities... everyone gets it, because they did a thing that undoes a limiter on the world, and even then all it's really used for is "slightly better than normal effects" because FMA is basically perfect, and the ideal I strive for every day.

There's also only one character with an ability completely unique to them, and even then it makes logical sense. But yeah, it's all really well thought out and explained.

Unless you're watching the 2003 anime.

EDIT: we also see Ed and Al sit down and research or solve problems several times. We're told they're intelligent and the story keeps it relevant. It's also interesting that while Al might be a better alchemist Ed is the superior academic.


Meanwhile Ichigo just blasts his sword kamehameha at god and since we're run out of time to finish the series proper it kills him.

You know, I think I got tired of it all after Ichigo lost all his powers for a second time, did training to develop a (at least temporarily) weaker set of powers, and then lost them. Only to then suddenly regain his old powers with no effort and nab a massive power boost at the same time.

And then we go through an entire war arc that establishes even his next power up isn't enough, and then the bit you bring up happened.

[ben-zayb]

All Might is indeed the best shonen mentor figure I've seen in awhile. It's nice when they can come up with believable flaws for a mentor that aren't just "lazy," "pervert," "drunk," or some mixture of the three.I'm not sure how recent you want it to be considering this was just 2 years before MHA came out, but Korosensei from Assassination Classroom (2012) is one of if not arguably the best shonen mentor figure.

[LaZodiac]

I'm not sure how recent you want it to be considering this was just 2 years before MHA came out, but Korosensei from Assassination Classroom (2012) is one of if not arguably the best shonen mentor figure.

He dibs a little too much into the perv trait, but he IS a pretty good teacher.

[Rater202]

So apparently a while back Kubo said in a Q&A that all of the Visored, explicitly including Ichigo, are theoretically capable of achieving Ressureccion. That wasn't a "Tousen" exclusive power.

Considering that Can't Fear Your Own WOrld confirms that Ichigo got the powers Yhwach took from him back, but the Hell Chapter shows him still wielding what looks like his broken Bankai, I'm wondering if that's not gonna play into things if and whn the story picks up. I kind of doubt that Nimiya's gonna reforge it again so Ichigo might need an alternat emethod of accessing his full power.

[Anteros]

Well, we all know that if there's a power out there to collect that Ichigo will end up with it. I wouldn't be surprised if the series ends with him wearing Orihime's hair pins.

[LaZodiac]

Well, we all know that if there's a power out there to collect that Ichigo will end up with it. I wouldn't be surprised if the series ends with him wearing Orihime's hair pins.

I mean they are married you shouldn't discount it.

[Rodin]

So apparently a while back Kubo said in a Q&A that all of the Visored, explicitly including Ichigo, are theoretically capable of achieving Ressureccion. That wasn't a "Tousen" exclusive power.


I've always read that as a "going Dark Side" moment. Tousen activating his Ressureccion shows that he has abandoned his humanity in pursuit of power, and is yet another layer of symbolism about how he saw more truly as a blind human than he did as a sighted Hollow.

[Ramza00]

I've always read that as a "going Dark Side" moment. Tousen activating his Ressureccion shows that he has abandoned his humanity in pursuit of power, and is yet another layer of symbolism about how he saw more truly as a blind human than he did as a sighted Hollow.

Well it was a “renouncement” of the “genealogy” of events that lead them here. The status quo is unsatisfactory yet it was very much made. How was it made?

Pretty much two things were happening. Tousen was critiquing the power of agents in soul society, and also the moral justifications they used to say this is good and this is bad.

One can not separate the two for they are linked, and the combination of the two makes one call into question the idea of justice, the idea of progress, and so on.

One can be a moral soul reaper but lacking power, they then can not perform justice even though they are moral. The powerless yet moral man will be swatted away by the people with power who act in injust ways, much like a man swats a fly or cricket.

Tousen needed a hug so badly in other words. Yes he was better at seeing while powerless, but he felt he was silent in this powerless void, playing the role of advancement by adopting a faux persona. To listen means to not speak (for a moment), and to see truly one must close one’s eyes so one can abandon the myopia of the moment. One can take in, likewise one finds it harder to put out at the exact same time one is taking stuff in.

[Dante & Vergil]

In Can't Fear Your Own World, can someone clarify for me if the Fullbringer's mothers being attacked by hollows isn't what gave them power but was a side effect of the Fullbringer being a piece of the Soul King? I swear I read that was the case, but my memory is pretty bad.

[Rater202]

In Can't Fear Your Own World, can someone clarify for me if the Fullbringer's mothers being attacked by hollows isn't what gave them power but was a side effect of the Fullbringer being a piece of the Soul King? I swear I read that was the case, but my memory is pretty bad.

They're unrelated.

There is a character, Aura Michibane, whose father was a Fullbringer and whose Mother was part of a bloodline that carried a piece of the Soul King in their soul, passing it down through the generations.

Aura inherited both powers.

[Dante & Vergil]

They're unrelated.

There is a character, Aura Michibane, whose father was a Fullbringer and whose Mother was part of a bloodline that carried a piece of the Soul King in their soul, passing it down through the generations.

Aura inherited both powers.
I See. Just wanted to be sure. Thanks!

[danzibr]

Well, we all know that if there's a power out there to collect that Ichigo will end up with it. I wouldn't be surprised if the series ends with him wearing Orihime's hair pins.
Bwaha this made me laugh.

But yeah… we’ve never seen Ichigo use kidou right? Thinking back… I’d like to see more kidou in general.

[Ramza00]

The thing to be looking forward too if we get a Manga Hell arc, and not just the anime 1000 year Blood War, is that we will likely get Gin back.

[Dante & Vergil]

I would be nice to see Ukitake do more than get murdered this time around.

[Ramza00]

I would be nice to see Ukitake do more than get murdered this time around.

He is only there to redirect things to move the plot forward, and not to redirect things when it is inconvenient for we must have tension. Also we must let a man die (and perhaps others) for there is a terrorist hollow on hand and your lieutenant is mad with grief / regret. You see there is no therapists in soul society, nor can we allow the man to do honourable suicide* after the hollow that has killed dozens be put down. (*we are half sure soul reapers are reincarnated as fresh souls with no memories, even though we have no serious proof of this only metaphysics. But we are talking about duties and obligations to protect life and duties to protect honor.)

Oh we just cause trauma to the future captain of Ukitake’s division for no good reason, besides being the inciting incident of everything about the manga? We can not get Rukia some therapy? What is that Edmund Burke** line again “The only thing necessary for the triumph of Aizen is for Ukitake to do nothing.” (**Burke has never said these lines, it is a myth furthered by media for JFK said Burke said that and we can track other people in 1920 saying Burke said that and thus a myth was born.)

Sorry but to me Ukitake is like Dumbledore but worse yet he is also hotter / youthful looking.

[Ramza00]

Wait? Ichigo and Orihime are supposed to be the myth of "The Cowherd and the Weaver Girl" ? ( Japanese version is called "Orihime and Hikoboshi" )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cowherd_and_the_Weaver_Girl

Thoughts?

[Rater202]

So Kubo did another q&a.

The reason Rukia never recognized Ichigo's father as Ishin Shiba, captain of the 10th Squad and uncle of her admired Kaien is a combination of factors.

1: His appearance has noticeably changed in the time since he disappeared.

2: Until very recently it was rare for people below a certain rank to have interactions with Captains outside their own division. She'd never met him in person.

3: As far as Rukia knew, it was impossible for Shinigami to have children with humans.

so she only had a vague idea of what the man looked like, hadn't seen hide or hair of him in a decade and change, he didn't look the way he did the only times she could have seen what he looked like, and even if she recognized him as far as she knows he couldn't possibly be who he resembles.

[Ramza00]

So Kubo did another q&a.

The reason Rukia never recognized Ichigo's father as Ishin Shiba, captain of the 10th Squad and uncle of her admired Kaien is a combination of factors.

1: His appearance has noticeably changed in the time since he disappeared.

2: Until very recently it was rare for people below a certain rank to have interactions with Captains outside their own division. She'd never met him in person.

3: As far as Rukia knew, it was impossible for Shinigami to have children with humans.

so she only had a vague idea of what the man looked like, hadn't seen hide or hair of him in a decade and change, he didn't look the way he did the only times she could have seen what he looked like, and even if she recognized him as far as she knows he couldn't possibly be who he resembles.

Soul Society ghosts age much more slowly than Humans / Gigai, Rukia just never put 2+2 together since it was roughly 20 years earlier. Isshin got old and now has a dad bod.

Edit: Do not smoke kids, it ages your face!

[Rater202]

Kubo also, a few months ago, explained wha'ts up with Ichigo's Zanpakuto at the end of the Manga and in the Hell chapter.
Although this hasn't been touched upon in detail, since I don't plan on expanding upon this topic any further I'm going to answer your question here. The dual Zangetsu is made up of "the blade" and "the scabbard". The correct form of a Zanpakuto is one that includes a scabbard and there are only two blades without one: Sayafushi and Zangetsu. The dual blade state fixes Zangetsu into its "correct form" while its Bankai state provides the scabbard, and what was seen after it shattered is the "True Zangetsu". The shattered scabbard was absorbed by Ichigo so if he wanted to he could split it back into two, but I guess that depends on Ichigo himself.So, basically, Ichigo has ultimately lost nothing and can fix his Zanpakuto himself whenever he wants to, he just has never felt the need.

I've seen someone speculating that the form that looks like the orignal form of Zangetsu is now his "sealed" state and that, if he felt the need, he could return to due wilding the way normal shinigami invoke Shikai which would be cool.

He's also confirmed that James is the real Quincy and Mask de Masculine is a manifestation of his power, an ideal hero.

And Shingiami uniforms are black so that they don't need to be replaced if they get stained.

[Ramza00]

Kubo also, a few months ago, explained wha'ts up with Ichigo's Zanpakuto at the end of the Manga and in the Hell chapter.So, basically, Ichigo has ultimately lost nothing and can fix his Zanpakuto himself whenever he wants to, he just has never felt the need.

I've seen someone speculating that the form that looks like the orignal form of Zangetsu is now his "sealed" state and that, if he felt the need, he could return to due wilding the way normal shinigami invoke Shikai which would be cool.

He's also confirmed that James is the real Quincy and Mask de Masculine is a manifestation of his power, an ideal hero.

And Shingiami uniforms are black so that they don't need to be replaced if they get stained.

Insert Don Kanonji gif here, the spirits zanpukatou are forever with you!

[ben-zayb]

He's also confirmed that James is the real Quincy and Mask de Masculine is a manifestation of his power, an ideal hero.Wait...what!?

First Gremmy, then James. These quincies with Stand powers are getting out of hand.

[Razade]

Wait...what!?

First Gremmy, then James. These quincies with Stand powers are getting out of hand.

It doesn't even make sense given the dude gets cut in half and we're told so long as Mask is around he'll live. He also turns into like...a swarm of himself. At this point Kubo is just like JKR, making crap up now that the series is over.

[Rater202]

Guys: When Masculine and James are destroyed, James was the one Ywach mentioned.

This isn't Kubo making something up after the fact. This is Kubo explaining a line in the manga.

It's abundantly clear in the manga that one of them is a manifestation of the powers of the other.

[Razade]

You can put lipstick on a pig and call it a prom date but that doesn't change the fact that you're dancing with a farm animal. Which is to say, Kubo can make all the overtures he wants about what he planned but that doesn't change how lame they come off after the fact or how it doesn't line up post-release.

[Rater202]

You can put lipstick on a pig and call it a prom date but that doesn't change the fact that you're dancing with a farm animal. Which is to say, Kubo can make all the overtures he wants about what he planned but that doesn't change how lame they come off after the fact or how it doesn't line up post-release.

...Dude.

It's literally in the source material.

Renji kills James and Masculine but Yhwach only comments on absorbing James' soul.

It's all but outright stated that one of them is the real James and the other is a projection. Each is dependent on the other to exist, a relationship that is explicitly linked to the Schrift S—The Super Star, and therefore can't be a natural aspect of their being.

All Kubo did is, when questioned about it in an interview, state which one was the original.

[Razade]

Dude, you can justify it all you want, you can post-hoc it all you want, it's not going to change how I feel about this is all coming off. You don't get to tell me how I feel.

[Rater202]

I want to make a correction regarding something I said earlier in this thread.

After finding more accurate information regarding Cant' Fear Your Own World, I would like to retract my statement that Aura Michibane is the only Fullbringer with a fragment of the soul king.

all fullbringers have one or more fragments of the Soul King, which gives them an above average reiryoku, which attracts hollows, and it's speculated that the fragments work similarly to the Hogyoku to catalyze the transformation once the child has absorbed the hollow reiryoku and flavors the resulting powers.

So I was wrong to say that only Aura had a piece, she's just the only one on record who has a substantial organ(in this case, his Chain of Fate) rather that just a small miscellaneous fragment of soul.

My B. Whoever asked about that.

I do not at this time know if Ichigo, Orihime, or Sado had these fragments or if their respective fullbring abilities are solely the result of respectively his unique heritage and their exposure to Urahara's hogyoku inside Rukia...