Good Race for this illusionist

[Khrysaes]

So, eventually my friends and I are going to start another game at level 7.

I have been exploring many character ideas, and the Wizard Illusionist with Eldritch Adept Misty Visions was one of them

I am not sure what race would be good.

Using tasha's so the ability scores don't matter here.

Suggestions?

[diplomancer]

Using Tasha's, you really can't go wrong with mountain dwarf or Githyanki. Other strong options are Satyr, Yuan-Ti, and Dragon-Marked races (if you're a house of healing Halfling, for instance, you basically can do anything you want to). Fairy might be fun and thematic as well (flight is always useful).

[Khrysaes]

Using Tasha's, you really can't go wrong with mountain dwarf or Githyanki. Other strong options are Satyr, Yuan-Ti, and Dragon-Marked races (if you're a house of healing Halfling, for instance, you basically can do anything you want to). Fairy might be fun and thematic as well (flight is always useful).

I was thinking some of those, namely Fairy, Healing Halfling, or Satyr.

Satyr and Fairy have a lot of thematic synergy.

[diplomancer]

The one thing to take care of you go the Fey route is if there's an Ancients Paladin (or Watchers Paladin) in the party; you don't want to run away from him if he uses Turn the Faithless!

[Segev]

Mountain Dwarf would let you wear medium armor, carry some martial weapons, and feign being a hireling warrior while your illusions are the "real" adventurer. It also comes with two +2s. I believe you can trade the medium armor and individual weapon proficiencies for more useful skills if you have a more demanding concept.

That said, a kenku could be amusing for its mimicry; use that in conjunction with the at-will silent image and you don't have to spend two actions to get minor illusion up first for sound effects. And, if you do, you can have the minor illusion and your own mimicry working together for more sound effects. Add in a raven familiar and you've got surround sound going on.

A tortle would be more amusing if you could control your illusions while shelled up, but sadly that takes actions you're denied. Still, 17 AC is nothing to shake a stick at.

[Khrysaes]

Mountain Dwarf would let you wear medium armor, carry some martial weapons, and feign being a hireling warrior while your illusions are the "real" adventurer. It also comes with two +2s. I believe you can trade the medium armor and individual weapon proficiencies for more useful skills if you have a more demanding concept.

That said, a kenku could be amusing for its mimicry; use that in conjunction with the at-will silent image and you don't have to spend two actions to get minor illusion up first for sound effects. And, if you do, you can have the minor illusion and your own mimicry working together for more sound effects. Add in a raven familiar and you've got surround sound going on.

A tortle would be more amusing if you could control your illusions while shelled up, but sadly that takes actions you're denied. Still, 17 AC is nothing to shake a stick at.

The kenku idea sounds fun.

[Segev]

The kenku idea sounds fun.

That or a human raised by kenku using minor illusion to "talk like his family" are concepts I've wanted to try for a while.

In the mean time, you may also find this thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?477658-Illusionist-Tricks) fun for ideas on how to exploit unique traits of certain illusion spells and Malleable Illusions, regardless of the race you pick.

[Psyren]

You're bound to take Minor Illusion for this concept, so a race that grants a bonus cantrip like Forest Gnome, High Elf, Aasimar (Protector) or Fire Genasi would be good.

Kenku would make good illusionists too given their Mimicry ability and proficiencies.

[Segev]

You're bound to take Minor Illusion for this concept, so a race that grants a bonus cantrip like Forest Gnome, High Elf, Aasimar (Protector) or Fire Genasi would be good.

Kenku would make good illusionists too given their Mimicry ability and proficiencies.

While more cantrips are always nice, you lose so much with going gnome or elf with TCE that you had better know what all the cantrips you're going to want are. Illusionist already gives you minor illusion as a bonus cantrip, and kindly gives you any bonus wizard cantrip you want if you already have it. So stacking racial cantrips on top of that is only a "still more" boost, not a true synergy. Still, if you are feeling starved for cantrips, this is a good option.

Another race that is good for "feeling starved for cantrips" is Githyanki or Githzerai: they get mage hand for free, can make it invisible, and don't require components to cast it. You're probably going to want mage hand anyway, so if you're starved for cantrips enough to be considering a race just for those, the Gith are a better choice than elf or gnome, especially with TCE's floating stat boosts.

[Psyren]

While more cantrips are always nice, you lose so much with going gnome or elf with TCE that you had better know what all the cantrips you're going to want are. Illusionist already gives you minor illusion as a bonus cantrip, and kindly gives you any bonus wizard cantrip you want if you already have it. So stacking racial cantrips on top of that is only a "still more" boost, not a true synergy. Still, if you are feeling starved for cantrips, this is a good option.

Another race that is good for "feeling starved for cantrips" is Githyanki or Githzerai: they get mage hand for free, can make it invisible, and don't require components to cast it. You're probably going to want mage hand anyway, so if you're starved for cantrips enough to be considering a race just for those, the Gith are a better choice than elf or gnome, especially with TCE's floating stat boosts.

It gives minor illusion at 2nd level, but if you already know it at 1st level (e.g. from your race) you can pick a different one instead. Starting the game with it does mean you can be doing a bunch of illusions from the beginning of the game. I do agree though that wizards get plenty of cantrips already.

[Khrysaes]

In regards to minor illusion, im definitely having it as in my original post i mentioned we are starting at 7th level.

That said i was thinking about mage hand, the telekinesis feat, arcane trickster 3, how disguise self is an illusion that does not require concentration and can be gained through eldritch invocations to be cast at will, mastermind rogues get the same mimicry as kenku, so does the actor feat, trickery domaain clerics have their doubly which is thematically fitting, changeling have shapechange, which functions like disguise self but is not an illusion, how much do i value 19th level wizard, 18th level wizard, etc, and some other random thoughts.

Essentially. The only thing i “know” is that 6 illusion wizard and silent image at will.

[Naanomi]

My version of that build uses custom Lineage to be small and still get the key feat at lvl 1, but probably less relevant if starting at level 7

[Segev]

It gives minor illusion at 2nd level, but if you already know it at 1st level (e.g. from your race) you can pick a different one instead. Starting the game with it does mean you can be doing a bunch of illusions from the beginning of the game. I do agree though that wizards get plenty of cantrips already.

And you can and probably should take Minor Illusion at first level. At second, you then get any bonus wizard cantrip you like. Agreed that you probably have enough cantrips as a wizard, anyway, and emphasizing that illusionists get one more than most wizards. You only need a race that gives yet another cantrip if you're still feeling a hoinch for some reason, and then githyanki probably gives you a better race-feature cantrip than high elf or forest gnome.

If you really want to max out mage hand, though, and are going to multiclass, arcane trickster rogue gets more flexibility with mage hand, and telekinesis the feat then gives you componentless casting of it and extended range. At which point you don't want gith for a race as it becomes redundant.

If you do go for illusionist 14, consider that silent image cast at will is still going to let you use Illusory Reality. Wall of Stone was never so easy to cast!

Rather than an invocation for disguise self, I suggest a hat of disguise. It does take an attunement slot, but it is componentless to cast from a magic item this, too, couples well with Illusory Reality, letting you make any tool you can carry.

[diplomancer]

I'm not sure that being able to cast disguise self at will is that good for an illusionist, exactly because they can change an illusion anytime they want. One casting of it will allow you to go through many different disguises for 1 hour. Maybe some days you'd like to do this several times over the course of a day? Perhaps. But even then, it's just a 1st level slot. Cast it again. It'd in fact make more sense to get Metamagic Adept (Subtle Spell and Extend Spell) for those rare days.

Anyway, you can't take the same feat twice (with the only exception of Elemental Adept, I believe) so getting two warlock invocations with this feat is impossible.

[Khrysaes]

And you can and probably should take Minor Illusion at first level. At second, you then get any bonus wizard cantrip you like. Agreed that you probably have enough cantrips as a wizard, anyway, and emphasizing that illusionists get one more than most wizards. You only need a race that gives yet another cantrip if you're still feeling a hoinch for some reason, and then githyanki probably gives you a better race-feature cantrip than high elf or forest gnome.


If starting at level 1, I agree that you should take minor illusion. However, it really doesn't matter if you start above level 1. You get three cantrips at level one, so minor illusion +2 cantrips of choice, and +1 cantrip of choice at level two, OR +3 cantrips of choice at level one and Minor illusion at level two. Regardless it is four cantrips, one of which is minor illusion.





If you really want to max out mage hand, though, and are going to multiclass, arcane trickster rogue gets more flexibility with mage hand, and telekinesis the feat then gives you componentless casting of it and extended range. At which point you don't want gith for a race as it becomes redundant.

If you do go for illusionist 14, consider that silent image cast at will is still going to let you use Illusory Reality. Wall of Stone was never so easy to cast!


I thought about taking 3 or 4 arcane trickster for this, but I am not sure if it is worth losing 9th level slots and/or the 18th wizard signature spells.

I wouldn't take Gith either way.



Rather than an invocation for disguise self, I suggest a hat of disguise. It does take an attunement slot, but it is componentless to cast from a magic item this, too, couples well with Illusory Reality, letting you make any tool you can carry.

I thought about this too, and even considered artificer levels to get it. Artificer can't take it until 10th level......

I am not sure that Malleable Illusions or Illusory Reality work with the spell if cast from the item.



I'm not sure that being able to cast disguise self at will is that good for an illusionist, exactly because they can change an illusion anytime they want. One casting of it will allow you to go through many different disguises for 1 hour. Maybe some days you'd like to do this several times over the course of a day? Perhaps. But even then, it's just a 1st level slot. Cast it again. It'd in fact make more sense to get Metamagic Adept (Subtle Spell and Extend Spell) for those rare days.

Anyway, you can't take the same feat twice (with the only exception of Elemental Adept, I believe) so getting two warlock invocations with this feat is impossible.

Or as Segev mentioned, get a hat of disguise.

That said, I was considering going 19 wizard/1 artificer or something to get medium armor prof and shield.
Then I considered that if I take Eldritch adept, that takes one feat, which wizard gets at level 19.

conversely
Hexblade warlock 2 also gets medium armor proficiency and shields, 2 more first level "spell slots", which are short rest, rather than long rest, and TWO eldritch invocations, rather than one that the feat gives, while still taking one "feat slot" as I lose the 19th level wizard one. This also loses one 6th and one 7th level spell slot per long rest, but I am not really concerned about that because I don't expect to get to 20.

Artificer still gets those slots, AND more 1st level spells as it prepares spells based on intelligence modifier rather than just spells known like the warlock. Artificer also gets a few good spells and cantrips such as Faerie Fire, Cure wounds, Thorn Whip, Guidance, that a wizard doesn't but so does warlock in EB and Armor of Agathys

Of note, my friends and I allow intelligence based warlocks. So its not as MAD as RAW. However, an illusionist would likely want a decent charisma regardless.

[Segev]

The items still say "you cast [the spell]" in question, and that's what Malleable Illusions and Illusory Reality care about. You DM can choose to rule otherwise, of course, but the RAW are pretty clear that it works.

I would not multiclass for it; if your DM will not let you find a Hat of Disguise, then reconsider a feat for Mask of Many Faces. Or see if just preparing and casting it yourself suffices. And really, seeming will be good enough by 9th level. Well, maybe 10th, when you have two fifth level slots. 8 hour duration and Malleable Illusions means you change yourmwhole party around whenever you like.

[Khrysaes]

The items still say "you cast [the spell]" in question, and that's what Malleable Illusions and Illusory Reality care about. You DM can choose to rule otherwise, of course, but the RAW are pretty clear that it works.

I would not multiclass for it; if your DM will not let you find a Hat of Disguise, then reconsider a feat for Mask of Many Faces. Or see if just preparing and casting it yourself suffices. And really, seeming will be good enough by 9th level. Well, maybe 10th, when you have two fifth level slots. 8 hour duration and Malleable Illusions means you change yourmwhole party around whenever you like.

If I didn't multiclass at all, I would use the feat for Misty Visions, as mentioned, you cant take the same feat twice except Elemental Adept.

If I multiclassed 2 warlock, and took misty visions +1 other invocation, then took the feat for Mask, which invocation would you suggest? If I chose, I would likely pick agonizing blast, as the aforementioned INT based warlock makes it lucrative.

[Segev]

If I didn't multiclass at all, I would use the feat for Misty Visions, as mentioned, you cant take the same feat twice except Elemental Adept.

If I multiclassed 2 warlock, and took misty visions +1 other invocation, then took the feat for Mask, which invocation would you suggest? If I chose, I would likely pick agonizing blast, as the aforementioned INT based warlock makes it lucrative.

For reliable damage, Agonizing Blast is a good choice. I think I, personally, would not take the feat for a third invocation, myself, but it isn't a terrible choice. I just think Mask of Many Faces is barely worth it in a pure Warlock, and would personally rather use disguise self and seeming as an illusionist wizard. Malleable illusions makes the hour long duration of the level one spell almost as good as the at will casting, unless you're spending all day trying tolbe someone else. And seeming lasts eight hours.

And I think, especially with Agonizing Blast, +2 Int will serve you better than Mask of Many Faces. And if you have other feats you're considering, I would recommend those. Heck, Eyes of the Rune Keeper can be surprisingly effective in the right campaign: note that ciphers and damaged texts are "writing" and thus can be read by them.