Do Non-Outsiders on other planes get mind wiped?

[pyrefiend]

It just occurred to me that I don't remember an answer to this question. Did it ever get mentioned? If the gods destroyed the world, but Hilgya escaped to the Elemental Plane of Earth, would she get mind wiped along with the Outsiders when the new world starts? My guess is "yes, she would" but that means her plan comes with a pretty serious cost.

[Emanick]

Quite possibly, but quite possibly not. The gods might just mind-wipe everyone, and since pretty much everyone outside the Material Plane is an Outsider (or an Elemental, which I assume also get mind-wiped), they probably don't distinguish between creature types. I think this is the most likely possibility.

On the other hand, the gods might be targeting Outsiders and Elementals specifically, using a mechanism that operates by targeting what makes those beings tick. We have no reason to believe that the mind-wiping mechanism works this way, but it's certainly possible.

[pyrefiend]

I guess it's just weird to realize that there might be (and probably are?) refugees from previous worlds in the current OOTS world.

[Manga Shoggoth]

I guess it's just weird to realize that there might be (and probably are?) refugees from previous worlds in the current OOTS world.

They would have to have incredibly long lifespans to last from the destruction of the old world to the creation of the new (centuries (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html)), let alone the lifetime of the current world (millenia (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1140.html)).

[Carl]

Also this raises the question, since they've created all kinds of worlds, how does the process of changing forms work. The last world wasn't stick figure based, but Cecilia e.t.c. are clearly stick figures.

[Metastachydium]

but Cecilia e.t.c. are clearly stick figures.

(Minor nitpick: Celia is very unlikely to be a leftover from a previous world.)

[Squire Doodad]

Also this raises the question, since they've created all kinds of worlds, how does the process of changing forms work. The last world wasn't stick figure based, but Cecilia e.t.c. are clearly stick figures.

The process of changing forms is like a large part in why they go insane if they don't wipe them. The answer is probably "each pantheon channels power and rewrites reality" or something.

I would imagine that they wipe absolutely everything on the planes.

[Emanick]

They would have to have incredibly long lifespans to last from the destruction of the old world to the creation of the new (centuries (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html)), let alone the lifetime of the current world (millenia (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1140.html)).

The fact that the gods hid for centuries the first time the world was destroyed does not mean they hide for centuries every single time. The first time, they had no idea what to do and had to come up with a new plan. Nowadays, they have the "remake the world" cycle down to a science.

That being said, I don't dispute the core fact that it's unlikely any mortal from the last world is still alive.

[NoHaxJustPi]

There's definitely enough time for a small-ish god to not make it (1144, panel 11) (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1144.html), so I'd take that as enough time for a mortal to not survive either.

[hroþila]

The fact that the gods hid for centuries the first time the world was destroyed does not mean they hide for centuries every single time. The first time, they had no idea what to do and had to come up with a new plan. Nowadays, they have the "remake the world" cycle down to a science.
But the time between worlds can't be trivial either if it's led to ascended gods dying of starvation. Also, if there was even a small kernel of truth to what Hel said about Loki's servants being undone as "always", the remake the world cycle might not be as clean or as safe as that.

[DaOldeWolf]

I dont knwo if its true but ever since the Food world was revealed to be a canon world, I have been of the idea that Pie Sorcerer was from that world. Of course that is just a theory of mine.

[brian 333]

When mortals die they become outsiders, unless they use magic to trap or hide their souls as Xykon has done. Any mortal on a non-prime material plane is still mortal.

If a mortal tries to colonize a non-prime material plane, over time its progeny begin to take on aspects of that plane, eventually becoming a part of that plane, and they therefore become outsiders.

Short term, it's a safety net. Long term, they either die and become outsiders or live and become outsiders.

[Grey Watcher]

I always assumed the gap between worlds was long enough for all mortal souls to sort of merge into the planes they inhabit (and thus no longer have personal, episodic memories as we think of them). That's why new gods so rarely survive: even the main ones with huge followings are running on proverbial fumes by the end.

[pyrefiend]

I always assumed the gap between worlds was long enough for all mortal souls to sort of merge into the planes they inhabit (and thus no longer have personal, episodic memories as we think of them).

Huh, I thought that only happened to souls that don't have bodies. In other words, I thought living mortals with flesh-and-blood bodies could chill out in the outer planes without getting absorbed.

[facw]

I have no evidence to support this, but my impression is that the gods do not let any of threads of reality escape, to ensure that that their prison doesn't weaken. There doesn't seem any good reason why their destruction of the prime wouldn't extend to travelers to the outer planes. Perhaps given the hundreds of years between destruction of one world and creation of the next, they'd let people die naturally, but I doubt they'd allow a permanent loophole. Given the massive number of worlds, even small amounts of leakage would be problematic. And mind-wiping the outsiders would be less effective if there were travelers who could just refresh their memories.

So yeah, I think at some point before the gods create a new world, they cleanse the outer planes of anything and anyone not supposed to be there.

[Snails]

Theoretically, a refugee from a previous world could survive the cycle. For example, a dragon might have sufficient lifespan.

But, as a practical matter, the odds of survival are zero without help from the gods, i.e. divine intervention.

It seems that Plane Shift would be a possible escape route. I agree with brian_333 that it does not work because the OotSverse does not seem to have any place to escape to that would not make your descendants integrated into the Outer Planes.

Could a dragon or similar have Plane Shifted out of the last world and be around to tell its tale? I cannot rule it out, never having occurred in one of the previous worlds, but it seems extremely unlikely.

[Grey Watcher]

Huh, I thought that only happened to souls that don't have bodies. In other words, I thought living mortals with flesh-and-blood bodies could chill out in the outer planes without getting absorbed.

I think if you go to the outer planes while still alive (eg via Plane Shift), you still age and eventually die of old age, at which point your soul does whatever it would do if you died on the Prime? At least that's what I've always sort of assumed.

[pyrefiend]

I think if you go to the outer planes while still alive (eg via Plane Shift), you still age and eventually die of old age, at which point your soul does whatever it would do if you died on the Prime? At least that's what I've always sort of assumed.

Oh, yeah, I definitely agree with that. My thought was only that the soul don't get absorbed into the plane until the body breaks down. But also, "the body breaking down" could take a long time or even an eternity (for someone like Xykon for example), in which case the soul would never be absorbed.


Could a dragon or similar have Plane Shifted out of the last world and be around to tell its tale? I cannot rule it out, never having occurred in one of the previous worlds, but it seems extremely unlikely.

I dunno, it doesn't seem that unlikely to me. What if the world was destroyed while Xykon was working on his Astral fortress? Then he'd survive, and obviously he's not gonna die of old age. Similarly it seems like there could be a bunch of undead or similarly long-lived creatures which aren't on the material plane for whatever reason when the gods pull the plug.

[brian 333]

I don't disagree, but I think something else is going on in the Astral Plane. It has been discribed as a plane of idea rather than substance. So it becomes a question of how long you can fuel the belief in your own existence?

You have, as a mortal, no worshippers to feed you. Therefore you have to consume your own belief, and that is a finite resource. So, at some point you starve for lack of Astral nutrition.

The same essentially applies to any other plane, but they can nourish the living body with the substance of that plane. Potato-analogues on the plane of fire are made primarily of the substance of the plane of fire. Eat them long enough and your body absorbs enough fire-substance to become a native of the plane. (I personally think this process would take longer than a natural lifespan, but progeny who have adapted to a diet which never included any other material would almost certainly be a part of the plane that nurtured them.)

So, you live longer on a non-Astral plane, and Undead which have retreated to the Astral Plane may not have a lifespan any longer than that of any other Prime Material mortal once it runs out of mortals that believe in it.

[Bacon Elemental]

Personally I feel like it would probably be the case that any surviving mortals on other planes get unwound along with the rest of creation when the gods eventually weave the old threads of reality that the Snarl scattered into a new world. I presume they do need all those threads back, after all (but multiple characters in close communication with involved gods seemed pretty sure that they'd survive the actual destruction of the world by the gods/Snarl with a Plane Shift, so its probbably not "instantly unwound")