Monk(ey) Business (Character Creation Help)

[Rhocian Xothara]

So a friend of mine is running a high-level campaign. We're starting at 10th level, with what we're calling "Enhanced Array" stats (18/16/14/12/10/8). It's set in a homebrew land that's ruled by Dragons (think Abeir, but desertlands and slightly more pleasant). He tends to run campaigns based on whatever new cool sourcebook he gets is, and well... he just got Fizban's Treasury. So this should be good.

We as a party got it into our heads that we're all going to play Monks. Either Single Class or Multiclass. The short version of this post is: Help me create a Monk Multiclass idea.

There's a few rules we have to abide by in terms of creation:

Enhanced Array stats: 18/16/14/12/10/8
Minimum of 5 levels of Monk - no level-dipping!
Flurry of Blows; Step of the Wind and Patient Defense are table-ruled as being able to be used either by using your Bonus Action (no Ki Points required) or spend the required Ki Points to do them as a Free Action once per round.



Assume all official content is allowed.

Long version:
I'm a minmaxer at heart. Always have been. I'm kinda getting tired of the same old optimised builds. Yes, I know I can multiclass with Rogue, or a Samurai or even a Cleric or Druid if I really want. But I kinda want to do something a bit different, and try a Multiclass that isn't very common.

Most of the ones that would work in theory for Monk tend to fall apart because of how MAD they are. With the Enhanced Array rules that's not so much a problem: Three stats above the usual 13 requirement, and a 12 means I only need a racial ASI point to get a fourth. Here's a few character concepts I'm tempted by:

Monk/Bard
Race: Drow
Classes: Kensei Monk 5/Swords Bard 5
Feats: Alert & Mobile

Flavoured as a blade-wielding acrobat, I can see a bunch of uses for this. Firstly, Bardic Inspiration is always welcome support. Bard's Expertises are put into Athletics and Acrobatics to really help their 'Monk' half be great at doing Monk things (especially as Athletics is a big part of physical movement in general and most Monks don't value 'strength'.)

Bardic Spellcasting helps give this Monk ranged attack options, as well as spells that can support this kind of character (Invisibility, Feather Fall etc).

Alert & Mobile helps with the Monkiness of the build, with bonuses to movement and Initiative.

Monk/Paladin
Race: Dragonborn (ASIs respecced under TCoE rules)
Classes: Dragon Ascendant Monk 5/Redemption Paladin 5
Feats: None - spec all into ASIs

I've never played a Redemption Paladin before, and I like the idea of something like a Paladin of Tiamat who took to a Monastic Temple for redemption, leaving said temple with renewed resolve and possibly a newfound purpose in life.

The only downside is that this really needs 4 high stats to get the best out of it - and none of those are Constitution. Hence on this occasion I'd be foregoing Feats in favour of stat-boosts.

Monk/Wizard
Race: Variant Human
Classes: Kensei Monk 5/Bladesinger 5
Feats: Warcaster; Eldritch Adept (Armor of Shadows); Mobile

Monk/Bladesinger is MAD, but gives great movement and AC; the latter being something Monks typically lack. The AC boosts from Bladesinger will stack with the free-of-charge Mage Armor from the Feat. Mobile allows guerilla hit-and-run tactics, both with the excellent movement but also by avoiding AoOs.

The real gem is being able to cast 'Haste' though, amongst other spells found on what is widely accepted to be the best spell list in the game.

Monk/Wizard (alternative)
Race: Harengon
Classes: Ascendant Dragon Monk 5/War Wizard 5
Feats: Alert & Mobile

We're all familiar with the Harengon 'Speedbunny' build, right? The one with the insane bonus to Initiatives? Yeah well now we're going to add stupid amounts of movement to that, too.

Ascendant Dragon is mostly for the neat 'flight' feature that'll come at Monk 6, but honestly we're also a Wizard; We can just cast that as a 3rd-level spell. War Wizard also gives us bonuses to AC, which has traditionally been the weak spot of Monks in general.

[nickl_2000]

Throwing something else weird out there for you.

Centaur Way of the Shadow Monk 6/Pact of the Blade Warlock 4.

You pick your Pact Weapons as your Monk Dedicated Weapon
Invocations: Improved Pact Weapon, Devil's Sight

8/18/14/10/16/12
+2 Dex, +1 Cha for stats of

8/20/14/10/16/13

You get 2 feats, Sharpshooter and Fighting Initiate (archery).

Your typical turn will be taking two -5/+10 shots. However, you have a +3 to attack already (1 from improved pact weapon and 2 from archery fighting style). You drop Hex to add more damage if you like. Then you use Focused Aim from the monk to give +X to make sure you hit. If/when you do that you can use your Ki-Fueled attack to make an additional attack with your Longbow as a bonus action.

Check with your DM, but if you use your free action Step of the Wind or Patient Defense the DM may also allow you to make a bonus action attack with the bow (likely not, but it's worth a shot).

You also have ki-fueled stealth from Pass Without a Trace, you can cast Darkness with Ki and see through it for Advantage on your attacks and after a few more level you can run up walls, making that hoof thing no longer an issue.

I mostly choose Centaur, because it's a cool image. Haragon would be fun, Tiefling gives you an extra casting of darkness. For Warlock I would pick GOO for some reason, but it really doesn't matter.

[Bobthewizard]

For the monk/wizard multi-class, I'd stick to 2 levels of monk and then the rest blade singer. You get martial arts, unarmored defense, and the no-Ki bonus actions and then you'll be an 8th level wizard. Bladesinger gets you extra attack so no need for monk to 5.

[Guy Lombard-O]

Monk/Wizard
Feats: Warcaster; Eldritch Adept (Armor of Shadows); Mobile

Monk/Bladesinger is MAD, but gives great movement and AC; the latter being something Monks typically lack. The AC boosts from Bladesinger will stack with the free-of-charge Mage Armor from the Feat.

The real gem is being able to cast 'Haste' though, amongst other spells found on what is widely accepted to be the best spell list in the game.

In regards to the Armor of Shadows, I don't see much value here. As a Bladesinger, you're allowed to wear light armor. Studded Leather is only 1 AC lower than Mage Armor. If you took a +2 Dex instead of Eldritch Adept, you'd have a non-Dispel-able equivalent AC, and better attack/skills stat to boot.

Especially since you're excited about making extensive use of Haste, be aware that Dispel Magic is a particularly hard-hitting tactic to use against a Mage Armor reliant, hasted Bladesinger.

[J-H]

I'd go full monk, no multiclassing.

Mercy monk handles healing.
Shadow monk handles infiltration and scouting.
Open hand monk handles crowd control.
Radiant soul (or whatever it's called) handles undead and some AOEs.
Astral handles grappling.
Kensei handles archery (optional).

The entire party ends up ridiculously mobile with high speed, wall-running, water-walking, etc.

Everybody takes the Crusher feat... and there's going to be at least one crit per round with 4 attacks per character.

[togapika]

Regardless of the class, you should either use Custom Lineage, or maybe co-opt the stats of another race so that you can be a monkey. The monkiest Monk you can be

[Psyren]

I know you want to avoid Monk/Rogue but there's a ton of synergy there, especially Shadow Monk or possibly Soulknife. Monk/Fighter is pretty hard-hitting as well, doesn't have to be samurai (I'd consider Battle Master personally.)


Regardless of the class, you should either use Custom Lineage, or maybe co-opt the stats of another race so that you can be a monkey. The monkiest Monk you can be

This was my thought (specifically, use it to approximate a Vanara (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/uncommon-races/arg-vanaras/) and go full Goku/Monkey King.)

[J-H]

No, no, they should all be tortles.

Cowabunga, dude!

[nickl_2000]

This was my thought (specifically, use it to approximate a Vanara (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/uncommon-races/arg-vanaras/) and go full Goku/Monkey King.)

Then you definitely need to persuade your DM to give you a Pole of Collapsing

[chiefwaha]

Just as an off the wall idea, with no real thought on subclasses...

Hill Dwarf Monk/Barbarian with the feats Dwarven Fortitude and Durable... Start with 18 Dex and 18 Con with racials... Up to 20 Con with the 2 feats... Now you can use your HD to heal yourself in combat for just a bonus action(Or free with a Ki) with a minimum of 10 HP... Maybe Bear totem for resistance to everything... 19 AC... Reckless attack with dodge so you're not being attacked at advantage.

Now I want to try this...

[togapika]

This was my thought (specifically, use it to approximate a Vanara (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/uncommon-races/arg-vanaras/) and go full Goku/Monkey King.)

Obviously the claws don't make sense, but Tabaxi do get a natural climb speed...
Also fuzzy and have tails

[Sorinth]

In regards to the Armor of Shadows, I don't see much value here. As a Bladesinger, you're allowed to wear light armor. Studded Leather is only 1 AC lower than Mage Armor. If you took a +2 Dex instead of Eldritch Adept, you'd have a non-Dispel-able equivalent AC, and better attack/skills stat to boot.

Especially since you're excited about making extensive use of Haste, be aware that Dispel Magic is a particularly hard-hitting tactic to use against a Mage Armor reliant, hasted Bladesinger.

You don't even need Studded Leather, since all the starting scores are even and you need at least a 13 Wis to multiclass monk chances are you'll put the 14 there and already have the equivalent to Studded Leather anyways. Though if doing this I'd go with Half Elf and after racials have a 20 Dex, 17 Wis, 15 Int and spend the first ASI evening out the Wis and Int. So you'd have a base AC of 19, 22 with BS, 24 with Agile Parry, 26 with Hast, and Shield to take you up to 31 as needed. And ideally try to get your hands on Bracers of Defence for another +2, or at least a ring of protection.

To the OP,
An Elf/Half Elf Shadow Monk Gloomstalker can be a great combo. Take either Devil's Sight or the Blindfighting style and take Elven Accuracy.

[KorvinStarmast]

We're starting at 10th level. Help me create a Monk Multiclass idea.
There's a few rules we have to abide by in terms of creation:

Enhanced Array stats: 18/16/14/12/10/8
Minimum of 5 levels of Monk - no level-dipping!
Flurry of Blows; Step of the Wind and Patient Defense are table-ruled as being able to be used either by using your Bonus Action (no Ki Points required) or spend the required Ki Points to do them as a Free Action once per round.


Yes, I know I can multiclass with Rogue, or a Samurai or even a Cleric or Druid if I really want. But I kinda want to do something a bit different, and try a Multiclass that isn't very common.

Ascendant Dragon is mostly for the neat 'flight' feature that'll come at Monk 6
18/16/14/12/10/8
My suggestion is to start at Monk 6 / Barbarian 4, or Monk 7 / Barbarian 3 and await second ASI at 11.
S 12 D 16 C 14 I 10 W 18 Ch 8
vHuman +1 to STR +1 to W.
S 13 D 16 C 14 I 10 W 19 Ch 8
vHuman feat was: Skill Expert. +1 to Wisdom. Put expertise into Athletics. Make sure to choose athletics as a proficient skill. Your shove and grapple are ki free, and since you have double proficiency is already +8 +1 = +9 at level 10. :smallsmile: And you can climb like a monk(ey) over most climbable things. :smallsmile:
S 13 D 16 C 14 I 10 W 20 Ch 8
First ASI Yields: S 13 D 18 C 14 I 10 W 20 Ch 8.
AC 19.
Second ASI: whatever you want. Mobile and Alert are two I'd suggest.
I'd suggest path of the Totem Warrior, Bear. Ancients Is also fine.
vHuman feat was: Skill Expert. +1 to Wisdom. Put expertise into Athletics. Make sure to choose athletics as a proficient

You have the ability to hit with magical attacks.
You can also take a big weapon and knock the stuffing out of things and you can rage, and on the next round use a bonus action for pretty much anything.

The only question is, do you need to take more than 3 levels in Barbarian? Probably not. You could go to 6 for the next feature but I'd just keep on Monking since I like Monks and to start you want that next ASI.

I'd go full monk, no multiclassing.
Mercy monk handles healing.
Shadow monk handles infiltration and scouting.
Open hand monk handles crowd control.
Radiant soul (or whatever it's called) handles undead and some AOEs.
Astral handles grappling.
Kensei handles archery (optional).
What, no love for Four Elements? :smallfrown:

Just as an off the wall idea, with no real thought on subclasses...

Hill Dwarf Monk/Barbarian with the feats Dwarven Fortitude and Durable... Start with 18 Dex and 18 Con with racials... Up to 20 Con with the 2 feats... Now you can use your HD to heal yourself in combat for just a bonus action(Or free with a Ki) with a minimum of 10 HP... Maybe Bear totem for resistance to everything... 19 AC... Reckless attack with dodge so you're not being attacked at advantage.
Brilliant. :smallsmile:

[Sorinth]

Also worth noting that Ki spent to FoB as a Free Action would actually fuel Ki-Fueled Strikes giving another attack as a BA, effectively making it 3 attacks. So with 5 attacks anything that gives rider damage for every attack like Rage, Hex or Hunter's Mark is going to be really strong.

[nickl_2000]

Also worth noting that Ki spent to FoB as a Free Action would actually fuel Ki-Fueled Strikes giving another attack as a BA, effectively making it 3 attacks. So with 5 attacks anything that gives rider damage for every attack like Rage, Hex or Hunter's Mark is going to be really strong.

Does it? Because the phrasing is "If you spend 1 ki point or more as part of your action on your turn..."

If the free action consider part of an action? Maybe, maybe not, check with your DM because YMMV. However, my build is significantly better is the DM allows it :)

[Psyren]

Normally you can't flurry + KFA because both use your bonus action. If you changed one of them to not be a bonus action somehow then you could combine them.