Help me pick my level 8 ASI

[Silly Name]

So, long story short, a few weeks ago I finally got to play as a player in a new campaign instead of being the eternal DM. Yay! We're playing in a slightly modified version of Innistrad from D&D, with a wee bit more traditional D&D stuff added in for the sake of options, and I ended up being a half-elf Paladin of the Ancients.

Now, DM gave us the option of either going point buy or rolling stats, and I went for the latter. So now I'm currently level 4 (just levelled up) with the following stat spread: STR 16, DEX 14, CON 15, INT 11, WIS 12, CHA 18. Got pretty lucky with rolls, and spent my first ASI to up CHA to 18.

Now, I'm planning to go straight Paladin unless something happens to dissuade me from it, and I'm fighting with a battleaxe, two-handed (picked Great Weapon Fighting as my fighting style), and my plan is to up CON to 16 at level 8, but... I don't know exactly how. Picking Resilient (Con) on a Paladin seems redundant unless I end up wanting to just auto-succeed on CON saving throws, and there aren't that many other half-feats that interest me or fit the character's concept, so the other options are either picking Skilled (a bonus skill proficiency and expertise are nice but not really exciting) or just use the ASI to go +1 CON/+1 CHA, and then using the next one to get CHA to 20 and perhaps STR to 17?

Level 8 is still a long way off, I know, but I like to plan my builds and I'm pretty stuck. I definitely want to get at least 16 CON to be a bit beefier, but I'm unsure on how. I think I'm fine with 16 STR, but if I incidentally end up upping it to 18 I'm not going to complain.

[Bobthewizard]

Using the ASI to bump CON and CHA opens up all of the CHA half feats for your next ASI - fey touched, shadow touched, or telekinetic. I'd take one of those at 12 over bumping STR to 17.

Res. CON isn't a terrible option to even out the odd score. At higher levels, you'll sometimes take more than 20 damage from a hit so the extra 4-6 points to that save could make a difference.

[KillingTime]

Using the ASI to bump CON and CHA opens up all of the CHA half feats for your next ASI - fey touched, shadow touched, or telekinetic. I'd take one of those at 12 over bumping STR to 17.


I like this, though I might get the Cha half feat first and then even out the stats at lvl12.
I think you'll notice the utility of extra spells and slots more at low level on a slot-starved half caster, and the bump to Con will matter less too.

[shipiaozi]

1st best Choice: pick PAM to boost your damage by 50%
2nd best choice: pick inspiring leader, assume no one else in your team have such ability
3rd best choice: pick -5+10, find a way to use your bonus action. Paladin actully don't need -5+10 that much.
4th best choice: pick Lucky, Alert or Tough, all of them are fine feats.
Viable Choice: pick CHA+2, almost useless until lv6, only great if you want to use crossbow and multiclass Hexblade. STR+2, you have chance to get a STR item, while much worse than PAM or -5+10
Bad Choice: pick CON half feat, much worse than tough

[Guy Lombard-O]

my plan is to up CON to 16 at level 8, but... I don't know exactly how. Picking Resilient (Con) on a Paladin seems redundant unless I end up wanting to just auto-succeed on CON saving throws, and there aren't that many other half-feats that interest me or fit the character's concept, so the other options are either picking Skilled (a bonus skill proficiency and expertise are nice but not really exciting) or just use the ASI to go +1 CON/+1 CHA, and then using the next one to get CHA to 20 and perhaps STR to 17?

Level 8 is still a long way off, I know, but I like to plan my builds and I'm pretty stuck. I definitely want to get at least 16 CON to be a bit beefier, but I'm unsure on how. I think I'm fine with 16 STR, but if I incidentally end up upping it to 18 I'm not going to complain.

I'd say it really depends upon your playstyle. Personally, I like using my spell slots for about 50% spells and 50% smites. I do this by using a lot of the concentration spells on the paladin list: Bless, Shield of Faith, Prot from E & G, and Wrathful Smite. The thing about using those concentration spells is that I want them to last! Not only do I not want to spend more spell slots on recasting, but I don't want to waste my Action/Bonus Action on casting. I want to be attacking during those actions (I often pick up PAM), and I don't need recasting cluttering up my combats. Not having to recast also saves me more spell slots for smiting, of course. So for me, Res Con is almost mandatory and not redundant. Hitting that magic +9 Con save makes me happy and confident in combat in a way that none of those other options will.

But if you're using few concentration spells and smiting a lot more, then Res Con is much less necessary (of course, there's still tons of other Constitution saves in the game: thunder, poison, cold, paralysis, petrification, some necrotic, etc.). 20 Cha or PAM or GWM might well be better for you.

[Silly Name]

Using the ASI to bump CON and CHA opens up all of the CHA half feats for your next ASI - fey touched, shadow touched, or telekinetic. I'd take one of those at 12 over bumping STR to 17.

Fey Touched may work with the character concept, but I'm a bit afraid that at level 12 it may not be that impactful. Still, Misty Step, even if once per day, can definitely be a great clutch - what would you suggest as the first-level spell granted by the feat?


Res. CON isn't a terrible option to even out the odd score. At higher levels, you'll sometimes take more than 20 damage from a hit so the extra 4-6 points to that save could make a difference.

Yeah, I don't think it's bad, just thinking whether it's going to be that impactful considering that I already get Aura of Protection.


1st best Choice: pick PAM to boost your damage by 50%
2nd best choice: pick inspiring leader, assume no one else in your team have such ability
3rd best choice: pick -5+10, find a way to use your bonus action. Paladin actully don't need -5+10 that much.
4th best choice: pick Lucky, Alert or Tough, all of them are fine feats.
Viable Choice: pick CHA+2, almost useless until lv6, only great if you want to use crossbow and multiclass Hexblade. STR+2, you have chance to get a STR item, while much worse than PAM or -5+10
Bad Choice: pick CON half feat, much worse than tough

I would really like to stick with the battleaxe, so PAM is out of the question. Inspiring Leader, however, is something I was eyeing already, perhaps as a level 12 feat in place of bumping CHA to 20.



-snip-

I also like to actually use my Paladin spells! That's why I'm prioritising CHA over STR, and I would guess "half spells, half smites" cleaves pretty close to how I like to play my paladins, so I agree that keeping my concentration up and running is definitely good - I was simply wondering if adding Proficiency to those CON saves would be overkill or not.

[diplomancer]

Fey Touched may work with the character concept, but I'm a bit afraid that at level 12 it may not be that impactful. Still, Misty Step, even if once per day, can definitely be a great clutch - what would you suggest as the first-level spell granted by the feat?



Yeah, I don't think it's bad, just thinking whether it's going to be that impactful considering that I already get Aura of Protection.



I would really like to stick with the battleaxe, so PAM is out of the question. Inspiring Leader, however, is something I was eyeing already, perhaps as a level 12 feat in place of bumping CHA to 20.




I also like to actually use my Paladin spells! That's why I'm prioritising CHA over STR, and I would guess "half spells, half smites" cleaves pretty close to how I like to play my paladins, so I agree that keeping my concentration up and running is definitely good - I was simply wondering if adding Proficiency to those CON saves would be overkill or not.

If you're keeping battle-axe (which means no PAM and no GWM), you have plenty of choices, all good.

Res (con): good, but I'd probably take it later, at 12th level, where it's more impactful.
Better than Tough, unless you don't get any Short Rests at all.

Inspiring Leader: very powerful feat for a Cha caracter, the better if you can boost at least 6 creatures.

ASIs (Str or Cha): effective but boring. Not necessary.

And my favourite (but it depends on campaign, doesn't work well in cramped quarters): Mounted Combatant. Once you get Find Steed, keeping it alive is so important, the mobility that it gives you is wonderful. Mounted Combatant helps you with that. And the Advantage it gives you against many foes (more crits/smites, yay!) is just gravy.

I don't recommend Fey-Touched. I love the feat, but Ancient Paladins already have Misty Step as an Oath spell. So it's just 1 extra casting and one more spell known. Good? I suppose. But still worse than these other options, I believe.

[KorvinStarmast]

a half-elf Paladin of the Ancients.
Wonderful, I found that to be a great PC.

STR 16, DEX 14, CON 15, INT 11, WIS 12, CHA 18.
Got pretty lucky with rolls, and spent my first ASI to up CHA to 18.
I suggest Res Con. You'll never need to bump Con ever again, and getting another saving throw proficiency is very nice. And, contra ship's post, you keep having con saves throughout the game. It's a commonly targeted stat for saving throws. Since you are going two handed weapon, that proficiency allows you, if you want to be a bit more tanky, to put up Shield of Faith and have better shots at keeping it up via concentration save boosts (+3 + proficiency) when you do get it.

I'd not suggest that except that I've watched our Paladin through the first two tiers use Shield of Faith a lot and it really helped the AC bit. And our cleric in ToA used to cast it on my ranger when he mixed it up in melee (his specialty was bow) and yes, that extra 2 to AC helped quite a bit.


Now, I'm planning to go straight Paladin unless something happens to dissuade me from it
Ancients Paladin is great as as single class.

I'm fighting with a battleaxe, two-handed (picked Great Weapon Fighting as my fighting style), and my plan is to up CON to 16 at level 8, but. Why not go with Great Axe? GWF makes for some nice re rolls. :smallbiggrin: Up to you, your PC.

I think I'm fine with 16 STR,
You are. A friend of mine played a dwarf vengeance paladin from 1-20 and never boosted STR. (He mostly did feats).

Using the ASI to bump CON and CHA opens up all of the CHA half feats for your next ASI - fey touched, shadow touched, or telekinetic. I'd take one of those at 12 over bumping STR to 17.
I agree at 12 that 17 STR is not needed.

Res. CON isn't a terrible option to even out the odd score. At higher levels, you'll sometimes take more than 20 damage from a hit so the extra 4-6 points to that save could make a difference. It's a pretty solid choice since there are a few concentration spells that Paladins can use.


Bad Choice: pick CON half feat, much worse than tough Wrong. Proficiency in a save is a substantial benefit as one goes up in level. True for five of my PCs so far, and numerous PCs in one shots.

By the way, he's not a hex blade, he's ancients paladin. That Oath can be played great from level 1 through 20.

As to your suggestion to swap to halberd and get PAM: while he's chosen otherwise, I agree with you that this is a pretty good idea at level 8 if he had not already decided that battle axe is his schtick.
If our OP finds that at level 8 he might want to use pole arms, this is a decent option for a feat at 8. More chances to get a divine smite off. :smallbiggrin:

As to your suggestion on Lucky/Tough/Alert: I agree that Lucky and Alert are good choices. Con 16 can wait for level 12.

Tough isn't a bad choice, but the other two are more flexible.
What I really like about alert is that you can't be surprised, inviso creatures don't get advantage on attacks, and you get +5 to initiative. Going first has some real tactical benefits. I have never regretted taking that feat; among my PCs a sorcerer, a rogue, and a couple PCs in one-shots took it and it was always useful.
Always.

Inspiring leader: with Chat of 18, that feat is good for the party. IMO, never a bad choice.

[Silly Name]

I suggest Res Con. You'll never need to bump Con ever again, and getting another saving throw proficiency is very nice. And, contra ship's post, you keep having con saves throughout the game. It's a commonly targeted stat for saving throws. Since you are going two handed weapon, that proficiency allows you, if you want to be a bit more tanky, to put up Shield of Faith and have better shots at keeping it up via concentration save boosts (+3 + proficiency) when you do get it.

I'd not suggest that except that I've watched our Paladin through the first two tiers use Shield of Faith a lot and it really helped the AC bit. And our cleric in ToA used to cast it on my ranger when he mixed it up in melee (his specialty was bow) and yes, that extra 2 to AC helped quite a bit.

I get what you're saying, I've put up Shield of Faith already a couple of times and it was super useful against tougher enemies. Being a bit more confident in it staying up certainly does make sense.

Resilient (CON) seems definitely a good pick, considering your points. No such thing as too big a bonus, I suppose!


Why not go with Great Axe? GWF makes for some nice re rolls. :smallbiggrin: Up to you, your PC.

Mostly because I appreciate getting to have a versatile weapon over a marginal increase in damage, and it fits the character's aesthetic better.


As to your suggestion to swap to halberd and get PAM: while he's chosen otherwise, I agree with you that this is a pretty good idea at level 8 if he had not already decided that battle axe is his schtick.
If our OP finds that at level 8 he might want to use pole arms, this is a decent option for a feat at 8. More chances to get a divine smite off. :smallbiggrin:

Oh, I know that PAM is definitely the superior option, mathematically. I'm just bored of PAM melee fighters, it's a powerful option but I don't care for it after seeing it played at my table so often.


Inspiring leader: with Chat of 18, that feat is good for the party. IMO, never a bad choice.

I am almost convinced to take it at level 12, prioritising it over getting 20 in CHA. I like it when feats let me do something unique and new, and Inspiring Leader fits the bill.

[Guy Lombard-O]

Res (con): good, but I'd probably take it later, at 12th level, where it's more impactful.
And my favourite (but it depends on campaign, doesn't work well in cramped quarters): Mounted Combatant. Once you get Find Steed, keeping it alive is so important, the mobility that it gives you is wonderful. Mounted Combatant helps you with that. And the Advantage it gives you against many foes (more crits/smites, yay!) is just gravy.

Gotta disagree about Res Con being better at 12th level. For many PCs, this is probably true. But not on a paladin with an 18 Cha and 16 Con. Res Con will put him over the magic +9 limit at 6th level. Which means, especially in tier 2 where you're not facing super-hard-hitting monsters all the time, that you'll get plenty of auto-saves on your concentration checks from 6th level on.

But I wholeheartedly agree on Mounted Combatant! At least in non-dungeon crawl campaigns, I adore that feat. But I think that one's best left for 12th level...right before you get Find Greater Steed, where losing your ride might mean a plunge to your death instead of merely being dismounted (and remember, this PC isn't using GWM, so he doesn't need the Advantage quite as much).