Pun-Pun's Binder Seal

[Firkraag]

I had a crazy idea, that now doesn't let me go to sleep. Design Binder's Seal, referencing Pun-Pun's ascension. It's an interesting bit of D&D fan lore.
Seal might give something cheeky and evocative of a character, but doesn't actually break the game.
Thought to share the idea, here. Maybe there are class-tinkers who'd like this idea and are more likely to see it to the end, or maybe someone would have ideas and suggestions to add to the think-tank.

I definitely haven't seen it made and thought it might as well be.

My only thoughts so far is to have two versions, as 1st level seal and as highest level seal and you'd have to give up 1st level seal to get the upgraded version.

[Maat Mons]

Well, the most straightforward ways to achieve a Pun-Pun ascension are Shapechange, Gate, and Dominate Monster. So those are all candidate abilities. Other possible abilities are a viper familiar, a free Candle of Invocation, and the ability to contact Pazuzu.

[Quertus]

My only thoughts so far is to have two versions, as 1st level seal and as highest level seal and you'd have to give up 1st level seal to get the upgraded version.


Well, the most straightforward ways to achieve a Pun-Pun ascension are Shapechange, Gate, and Dominate Monster. So those are all candidate abilities. Other possible abilities are a viper familiar, a free Candle of Invocation, and the ability to contact Pazuzu.

So… for low-level abilities… being able to shed light as and ignite flammable materials as a candle, a bonus to all haggle rolls, and… the ability to control a single, nonmagical serpent with (1HD? HD ≤ Binder level? EDIT: or just "3.0 Animal Friendship at will, caster level = Binder level, limited to nonmagical snakes?). Is that even remotely appropriate?

[Beni-Kujaku]

So… for low-level abilities… being able to shed light as and ignite flammable materials as a candle, a bonus to all haggle rolls, and… the ability to control a single, nonmagical serpent with (1HD? HD ≤ Binder level? EDIT: or just "3.0 Animal Friendship at will, caster level = Binder level, limited to nonmagical snakes?). Is that even remotely appropriate?

I don't think candle of invocation is that representative of Pun-Pun, since it's not necessary for it to ascend, and wasn't even used in the first iteration. I'd think something like "you always count as a Scaled One for effects that affect them differently and gain the effect of one feat requiring to be a Scaled One or Serpentfolk (you still need to meet all the other requirements of the feat) while you're bound to Pun-Pun. You can also cast Charm Animal once every 5 rounds, limited to snakes." And, yes, I think Animal Friendship/Charm Animal is appropriate, since Pun-Pun worked by exchanging their ability scores with their pet snake.

And for a 8th level vestige, I think something referencing the stealing of abilities.
"While you're bound to Pun-Pun, you gain the feat Assume Supernatural Ability whenever you're in a form different than your own (such as a Polymorph effect or more powerful, but not Alter Self). Moreover, once every 5 rounds, you can make a touch attack on another creature. If they fail a Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 your binder level+Cha modifier), you can either make one of their ability scores equal to yours or make one of your ability score equal to theirs. The difference is an insight bonus or malus. No creature can gain an insight bonus higher than your binder level this way. For example, a binder 17 with 8 Str using this ability on a Balor (35 Str) could either gain a +17 insight bonus to strength or inflict a -27 insight malus on the Balor (making its strength 8). The effects lasts 1 hour, until you unbind Pun-Pun, or until you use this ability again to affect the same ability score (hence, a binder could not gain 17 points of strength by affecting a balor, then transfer this bonus to one of their teammates)."

[Firkraag]

Damn, that's good, @Benji-Kujaku!

What happens to the feats you gained while bound to Pun-Pun Ascendant, after?

[Naanomi]

What happens to the feats you gained while bound to Pun-Pun Ascendant, after?
To fit the spirit of Pun-Pun, it has to be somewhat poorly worded so one could interpret that you keep them forever (but no same GM would let you do so)

[Firkraag]

To fit the spirit of Pun-Pun, it has to be somewhat poorly worded so one could interpret that you keep them forever (but no same GM would let you do so)

Same, Sane? Who cares? :amused:

[Telonius]

The seal should somehow involve a piece of cheese.

[DragonIceAdept]

Could make him an Epic Vestige (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?172608-3-5-Wizard-s-Epic-Binder-Article&p=9589080#post9589080).

[Feantar]

To fit the spirit of Pun-Pun, it has to be somewhat poorly worded so one could interpret that you keep them forever (but no same GM would let you do so)

I would contest the existence of sane DMs, but maybe state something similar to keeping the feats "until the binder ends the binding or it ends naturally after 24hrs" which would imply (to a sick, sick mind) that if the vestige is expelled by someone else, you keep the feats.

[Elves]

I have him with a happier fate as god of optimization. I think he makes a much better kobold deity than Kurtulmak

Hero of the kobold race, an example of the ultimate underdogs sticking it to the man

[Firkraag]

I have him with a happier fate as god of optimization. I think he makes a much better kobold deity than Kurtulmak

Hero of the kobold race, an example of the ultimate underdogs sticking it to the man
Perhaps in a different multiverse, where unlimited HD of the build actually works (look Pun-Pun debunk) and achieved all the prereqs, required to make this build online. Which still makes Pun-Pun a great candidate, because something-something, far away, mysterious, spooky seals.

Still hadn't got to reread ToB to actually write this thing, but got me some great ideas so far! Thanks, everybody.

[Quertus]

I have him with a happier fate as god of optimization. I think he makes a much better kobold deity than Kurtulmak

Hero of the kobold race, an example of the ultimate underdogs sticking it to the man

Pun-Pun is definitely canonical at my tables, and many of those I play at.

However, as a 3e character, he's subordinate to his 2e processors. At least at my tables. He may be the first of the new age, but he's not the first.