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Nostri
2007-11-19, 03:32 PM
I was just looking over some prestige classes for a character I'm making. Specifically Ultimate Magus from Complete Mage. Anyway the point of this post is that when one reads the spellcasting class ability in a class that provides "+1 level of existing class" says that you gain the ability to cast spells as if you had gained another level in a preexisting spellcasting class. One also gains no other features of the class.

This provides no problems for divine casters or even spontaneous arcane casters but when looked at from the point of view of a wizard there is an issue. The ability to cast spells is a separate ability from the gaining of spells for a wizard because of their spellbook. So as the rule is written the wizard would gain more spells per day and even at a higher level if that would be gained (allowing him to cast more lower level spells and even better meta-magiced versions of lower level spells) but no more spells. My question is this, would you make a wizard research spells that gained a PrC with "+1 level of an existing class" or would you give them their +2 spells per level as normal despite the fact that the ability doesn't actually allow that? Or am I just reading too much into the class abilities and I just shouldn't worry about it?

Keld Denar
2007-11-19, 03:44 PM
I think you are reading too much into it. A wizard gains spells to his spell book when he attains a new spell casting level. If a pclass gives him a new spell casting level, he would gain 2 spells to his book "as if he gained a level of wizard." To say otherwise would completely NERF every arcane spell casting pclass ever written, because NONE of them specifially say that a wizard gains 2 new spells. Instead its implied that he gains them when he gains a caster level as if he gained a level of wizard.

Chronos
2007-11-19, 04:04 PM
I don't know the answer, but it seems to me that by the time you're going into prestige classes, you probably shouldn't have much trouble finding scrolls or spellbooks to copy out of. So it doesn't seem like it's a big deal one way or the other, to me.

herrhauptmann
2007-11-19, 08:52 PM
I was just looking over some prestige classes for a character I'm making. Specifically Ultimate Magus from Complete Mage. Anyway the point of this post is that when one reads the spellcasting class ability in a class that provides "+1 level of existing class" says that you gain the ability to cast spells as if you had gained another level in a preexisting spellcasting class. One also gains no other features of the class.

This provides no problems for divine casters or even spontaneous arcane casters but when looked at from the point of view of a wizard there is an issue. The ability to cast spells is a separate ability from the gaining of spells for a wizard because of their spellbook. So as the rule is written the wizard would gain more spells per day and even at a higher level if that would be gained (allowing him to cast more lower level spells and even better meta-magiced versions of lower level spells) but no more spells. My question is this, would you make a wizard research spells that gained a PrC with "+1 level of an existing class" or would you give them their +2 spells per level as normal despite the fact that the ability doesn't actually allow that? Or am I just reading too much into the class abilities and I just shouldn't worry about it?

When they say no other features of the class, they're referring to familiars, and bonus feats. CHeck out the mystic theurge, it has a similar wording, but in the theurge's case, he gains no levels in regards to his familiar, turning, or bonus feats.
It would also apply to other non-core casting classes, like the Magister (Sword&Sorcery Arcana Unearthed) and his greater/lesser spell powers or 'discard staff'.

Learning wizard spells will happen in the same way regardless of whether you take a wizard level or an Ultimate magus level.

Raum
2007-11-19, 09:00 PM
I was just looking over some prestige classes for a character I'm making. Specifically Ultimate Magus from Complete Mage. Anyway the point of this post is that when one reads the spellcasting class ability in a class that provides "+1 level of existing class" says that you gain the ability to cast spells as if you had gained another level in a preexisting spellcasting class. One also gains no other features of the class.
Reread the section on gaining spells, I suspect it says more than you think it does. For example, Archmage uses the following terminology: "When a new archmage level is gained, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in whatever arcane spellcasting class..."