Do abilities do whatvthey say they do?

[diplomancer]

Or are there unspoken assumptions, which the DM's supposed to correct for realism, when those assumptions don't hold?

Take a look at the Giant Crocodile's actions:


Multiattack: The Crocodile makes two attacks: one with its bite and one with its tail.

Bite: Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 21 (3d10 + 5) piercing damage, and the target is Grappled (escape DC 16). Until this grapple ends, the target is Restrained, and the Crocodile can't bite another target.

Tail: Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target not Grappled by the Crocodile. Hit: 14 (2d8 + 5) bludgeoning damage. If the target is a creature, it must succeed on a DC 16 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone.

Would you run those abilities as is, thus allowing a Polymorphed PC to grapple and restrain a Gargantuan creature, including Legendary ones, on a hit with the bite, no saves allowed? On the same token, whether you say yes or no to the previous answer, would you allow an attack with the tail, if the bitten creature is so massive that the Crocodile reasonably could hit it with his tail even while biting it?

Or do you believe that there's an unspoken assumption that the target will be smaller than the crocodile (usually a medium PC, it's a monster after all), and adjudicate accordingly?

[nickl_2000]

Wildshape/Polymorph question = Ask the DM

Personally as a DM I would some apply reality into this and make it only work for Huge or smaller creatures.

As for a legendary creature, if it's the right size I wouldn't give a save/check. The PCs don't get one, why should a creature?

[JNAProductions]

By RAW, you can Restrain any size of creature with that form.

A DM who rules with RAW would be fine-though I'd find it a little silly. Especially since similar abilities DO have a size limit, like the T-Rex's bite.

My own table? I'd add a size limit to it. I think that it's more of an oversight by WotC rather than anything intentional, and would act accordingly.

[Unoriginal]

Or are there unspoken assumptions, which the DM's supposed to correct for realism, when those assumptions don't hold?

Take a look at the Giant Crocodile's actions:



Would you run those abilities as is, thus allowing a Polymorphed PC to grapple and restrain a Gargantuan creature, including Legendary ones, on a hit with the bite, no saves allowed? On the same token, whether you say yes or no to the previous answer, would you allow an attack with the tail, if the bitten creature is so massive that the Crocodile reasonably could hit it with his tail even while biting it?

Or do you believe that there's an unspoken assumption that the target will be smaller than the crocodile (usually a medium PC, it's a monster after all), and adjudicate accordingly?

An ability does whatever it says it does, as interpreted by the DM. If the DM decides it does something differently than as written, it does.

That being said, realism is *not* something that has any relevance in D&D 5e, nor should have any relevance as far as I'm concerned.

If a DM decides that the Giant Crocodile can restrain a Legendary Gargantuan creature, it does. If the DM doesn't, the crocodile doesn't. Nothing about it is realistic one way or another, including the existence of Giant Crocodiles and of Legendary Gargantuan creatures.

[ad_hoc]

They do have a size limit it's just that the limit is gargantuan and there are no creatures bigger than that.

I might rule that a creature is so big that it is bigger than a regular gargantuan creature so it is immune like the Tarrasque.

A bunch of creatures have this ability like the Giant Toad which can restrain up to huge.

A Moon Druid can Wildshape into a Giant Constrictor Snake at level 6. It's a powerful ability but is best used against high CR melee creatures. Those creatures at that level will have at least +9 to hit if not +11 which against the AC 12 of the snake will likely hit even with disadvantage. Barkskin can help here to at least give the Druid a chance though is best on the Giant Toad at level 4-5.

The creature will still get to attack it is just more or less forced to hit the Druid who is there to get hit. The Advantage to hit the creature is of course great.

It's a great option but not overpowered. The Moon Druid in general is quite good but after level 5 seems balanced.

As for the tail attack it's a bit strange. I imagine the T-Rex and Giant Crocodile were written by different authors. If the PC is the crocodile I'm not going to want to nerf it which seems like it would only cause a lack of fun. Instead I might just envision it as the crocodile using their tail to thrash about and causing damage that way.

[sithlordnergal]

Abilities do exactly what they say they do. If an ability says it Restrains on a hit without any size limit, then there is no size limit, it just automatically Restrains them. Interestingly, Restrain is technically different from Grapple, so Restrain is not constrained by the same "The target of your grapple must be no more than one size larger than you and must be within your reach" rule as Grapple is. So yeah, you could cast Reduce on a Giant Crocodile, and it could still Restrain a Tarrasque.

Same holds true with the Tail attack. Unlike the T-Rex, there's nothing stating the Giant Crocodile can't target a creature they're biting with their Tail, so they can target creatures they're biting with Tail attacks.

[Chronos]

As with most grappling monsters, the bite causes both Grappled and Restrained, and the Restrained only lasts as long as the Grappled does. So you can't restrain something without grappling it, so as to still use your tail, and any ordinary restrictions on grappling still apply.

[Zhorn]

In regards to the grapple rider of the Giant Crocodile's bite vs the Tyrannosaurus Rex's bite, I'd take the view of specific beats general.
The rules on Grappling on PHB p195 and PHB p290 lay out the general rules, and then the ability of each creature is laying out the specific deviations.

The Tyrannosaurus Rex's bite gives

a condition for establishing the grapple (attack roll)
the escape DC (17)
an addition rider (restrained condition)
a specific size range (Medium and smaller)

The Giant Crocodile's bite gives

a condition for establishing the grapple (attack roll)
the escape DC (16)
an addition rider (restrained condition)

Any part that conflicts with the rules for grappling you follow the specifics of the ability
Any areas not called out specifically in the ability are assumed follow the general rules for grappling.

Both abilities establish how the grapple is initiated; an attack roll from a bite as opposed to the standard contested check requiring a free hand.
Both abilities establish how the grapple is escaped; a set DC as opposed to a further contested check.
Both abilities have the additional restrained condition; standard grapples do not
But only the Tyrannosaurus Rex's sets the size range, while the Giant Crocodile does not mention size.

Since we'd already assume the other standards of the grapple condition would apply, such as forced movement from Thunderwave and other similar effects breaking the grapple, then we should also assume the size limit for the standard rules for grapple are in effects since they were not specifically called out as being any different.
And so by that reasoning the Giant Crocodile would not be able to grapple a creature with it's bite that is more that one size category bigger than itself.

Still, being a Huge creature does mean that the next size category up is Gargantuan, which wouldn't break verisimilitude if it was just a 3x3 sized creature vs a 4x4 sized creature, but Gargantuan is 4+x4+, which is where it delves into the craziness of it successfully pinning down Tarrasques and Krakens... I miss Colossal...

[diplomancer]

In regards to the grapple rider of the Giant Crocodile's bite vs the Tyrannosaurus Rex's bite, I'd take the view of specific beats general.
The rules on Grappling on PHB p195 and PHB p290 lay out the general rules, and then the ability of each creature is laying out the specific deviations.

The Tyrannosaurus Rex's bite gives

a condition for establishing the grapple (attack roll)
the escape DC (17)
an addition rider (restrained condition)
a specific size range (Medium and smaller)

The Giant Crocodile's bite gives

a condition for establishing the grapple (attack roll)
the escape DC (16)
an addition rider (restrained condition)

Any part that conflicts with the rules for grappling you follow the specifics of the ability
Any areas not called out specifically in the ability are assumed follow the general rules for grappling.

Both abilities establish how the grapple is initiated; an attack roll from a bite as opposed to the standard contested check requiring a free hand.
Both abilities establish how the grapple is escaped; a set DC as opposed to a further contested check.
Both abilities have the additional restrained condition; standard grapples do not
But only the Tyrannosaurus Rex's sets the size range, while the Giant Crocodile does not mention size.

Since we'd already assume the other standards of the grapple condition would apply, such as forced movement from Thunderwave and other similar effects breaking the grapple, then we should also assume the size limit for the standard rules for grapple are in effects since they were not specifically called out as being any different.
And so by that reasoning the Giant Crocodile would not be able to grapple a creature with it's bite that is more that one size category bigger than itself.

Still, being a Huge creature does mean that the next size category up is Gargantuan, which wouldn't break verisimilitude if it was just a 3x3 sized creature vs a 4x4 sized creature, but Gargantuan is 4+x4+, which is where it delves into the craziness of it successfully pinning down Tarrasques and Krakens... I miss Colossal...

I don't think the Grapple breaks verisimilitude (well, maybe for those Colossal creatuees you mention), but I think the Restrained does, perhaps even for Huge creatures.

[OvisCaedo]

For bonus fun, the small-sized Octopus also grapples on a successful tentacle hit without any listed size restriction. Only the large-sized giant octopus also restrains, though!

The size rules in the PHB could be interpreted as only applying to actually trying to directly make a grapple check, or maybe they're supposed to be universal to all forms of "grappling". I'm glancing through MM statblocks of things that grapple on a hit, and most of the time it seems like they only list a maximum size if it happens to be smaller than what would normally be expected as a limit.

[PhoenixPhyre]

For bonus fun, the small-sized Octopus also grapples on a successful tentacle hit without any listed size restriction. Only the large-sized giant octopus also restrains, though!

The size rules in the PHB could be interpreted as only applying to actually trying to directly make a grapple check, or maybe they're supposed to be universal to all forms of "grappling". I'm glancing through MM statblocks of things that grapple on a hit, and most of the time it seems like they only list a maximum size if it happens to be smaller than what would normally be expected as a limit.

I've always assumed that the PHB rules are for making the special grapple attack as part of the attack action. Grappled, the condition, and Restrained, the condition, have no such rules, which is where I'd assume those would be for the general case.