What creature types are ageless?

[Doctor Despair]

As stated in the title, I was wondering if folks would be willing to help me identify which types of creatures don't have a maximum age (ideally with some sort of citation). For example, I've been under the impression that Undead and Fey don't die of old age, but I'm having a hard time finding hard rules suggesting that to be the case. Maybe constructs and outsiders would fall under that umbrella too?

Animals, dragons, giants, humanoids, magical beasts, monstrous humanoids, plants, and vermin almost certainly die of old age, with possible individual exceptions.

I'm entirely unsure about aberrations, oozes, and elementals.

[KillianHawkeye]

Lifespan is not something that is defined by creature type, with the exception of Constructs and Undead (which are generally not alive to begin with).

For that, you have to go into specific creature lore.

[hamishspence]

Yup - while some of the lore implies that Extraplanar Outsiders normally don't age, there's still enough exceptions that you can't say "All Extraplanar Outsiders don't age".

[Biggus]

Constructs and undead certainly don't age, although they may eventually fall apart after a long enough time. Most outsiders don't age (many fiends and celestials are incredibly ancient) but I don't know if it necessarily goes for all of them.

AFAIK aberrations age normally but there may be some exceptions. I think elementals just get bigger and stronger over time, as suggested by the fact that the strongest normal type is called an elder elemental.

Oozes, your guess is as good as mine.

[Doctor Despair]

So is the consensus that only constructs and undead are ageless by type? Are there any citations to back this up?

Warforged explicitly do not age naturally, but that could be an exception if it's the only citation we can find.

The construction type does clarify that "Since it was never alive, a construct cannot be raised or resurrected." If it is not alive, does that imply it can't die? It does clarify that a construct is immediately destroyed when it reaches 0hp, so that might be the correct assumption to make -- in which case they could be immune to death in general, not just death from old age.

Undead might inherit this, too, as they are also destroyed at 0hp.

[Akal Saris]

Creatures without a Con score being effectively ageless seems like a reasonable assumption to me.

I also think it's reasonable to expect that constructs may simply fall apart after a significant amount of time and wear and tear, as their magic eventually fail or their materials wear down - I'm sure there's more than a few modules that describe decrepit old constructs barely functioning or broken down over time. I'm not aware of any definitive sources one way or the other.

For undead, they don't 'age' per se, but some may grow stronger with time, like how liches can eventually evolve to become demiliches, while I could easily see the case that simple skeletons and zombies eventually fall apart as the simple magics holding them together fade over time, or the bones literally crumble to dust over millennia.

[Thurbane]

Neraph (Planar Handbook) are Outsiders, and have a maximum age of 250+2d100 years. Ergo, not all Outsiders are ageless.

Uldra (Frostburn) are Fey, and have a maximum age of 350+5d100 years. Ergo, not all Fey are ageless.

Here's a couple of thread that may be relevant: Immortality and Undeath (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?527570) / Immortality? (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?528122)

[Biggus]

I found the following quotes in Libris Mortis:


Barring misfortune or their purposeful destruction, undead can expect to survive in good health for thousands of years, possibly even a great deal longer. (p.7)


Those creatures fanatical enough to actually seek undeath strive to escape the bonds of mortality and thereby gain a term of existence far beyond their natural life spans [...] They hope that by having no temporal limits on their life spans... (p.12)


the stubborn immortal undead (p.12)

I'm sure there's a line somewhere that says that zombies eventually fall apart after many centuries but I can't find it right now.

[Feantar]

I'm sure there's a line somewhere that says that zombies eventually fall apart after many centuries but I can't find it right now.

I seem to remember something about these types aging into some -other- type of undead no? Similar to Lich -> Demilich lore in some editions (not 3rd).

[KillianHawkeye]

The construction type does clarify that "Since it was never alive, a construct cannot be raised or resurrected." If it is not alive, does that imply it can't die? It does clarify that a construct is immediately destroyed when it reaches 0hp, so that might be the correct assumption to make -- in which case they could be immune to death in general, not just death from old age.

Undead might inherit this, too, as they are also destroyed at 0hp.

Undead and Constructs are not alive (aside from warforged and other "living constructs"), so no they never die. Technically. Rather, the word destroy is always used for such creatures. Constructs* and Undead are both immune to death effects for that reason.

I suppose they could erode over a long enough time period if exposed to the elements, but that would be the closest thing these creatures have to a "natural lifespan".

[Particle_Man]

I thought I read somewhere that zombies eventually degrade into skeletons but can’t remember where.

[Telonius]

There's a guide to Immortality here (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1179.0). Elans, Warforged, and Killoren are listed as standard races that grant immortality.

The "Evolved Undead" template doesn't outright state it, but heavily implies that intelligent undead can exist for a basically indefinite amount of time.

[Biggus]

I thought I read somewhere that zombies eventually degrade into skeletons but can’t remember where.

Actually, that sounds familiar, that might be what I was thinking of.

[Particle_Man]

There's a guide to Immortality here (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1179.0). Elans, Warforged, and Killoren are listed as standard races that grant immortality.

The "Evolved Undead" template doesn't outright state it, but heavily implies that intelligent undead can exist for a basically indefinite amount of time.

Makes you wonder why people bother to become liches when they could just become Elan.

[RSGA]

Because in general you can become a lich under your own power more and in more ways, more easily than an elan, who is generally transformed by a secretive council.

[FauxKnee]

The evolved undead template (from Libris Mortis) has a cumulative 1% chance per hundred years of survival to be applied to any given undead (and can be applied multiple times.) It's certainly not an explicit statement that undead don't age, but it's another anecdote that their "natural lifespan" is virtually without limit.

[KillianHawkeye]

Makes you wonder why people bother to become liches when they could just become Elan.

They don't want to devote themselves to singing, bad puns, and narrative story structure? :smallbiggrin:

[Telonius]

They don't want to devote themselves to singing, bad puns, and narrative story structure? :smallbiggrin:

:Gasp: He's one of them! :smallbiggrin:

[Maat Mons]

Becoming an elan means losing all your levels, even the first one. It's a very tempting offer for low-level seekers after immortality, and those who have come to regret all their build decisions. But powerful spellcasters may not be very interested in starting their training over from square one.

[icefractal]

Lich isn't just for immortality, as there are indeed easier ways - it's for rejection of the external world, or at least one's dependence on it. No need for things like food and air of course. But also no need for allies, you come back to unlife on your own if destroyed. Perfect for someone who doesn't really like other people and just wants to work on their project for decades at a time without all those irritating interruptions.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Becoming an elan means losing all your levels, even the first one. It's a very tempting offer for low-level seekers after immortality, and those who have come to regret all their build decisions. But powerful spellcasters may not be very interested in starting their training over from square one.That's what thought bottles are for.

[Arutema]

Neraph (Planar Handbook) are Outsiders, and have a maximum age of 250+2d100 years. Ergo, not all Outsiders are ageless.

And, of course, any outsider with the native subtype (aasimar, tiefling, genasi, PF geniekin) age like mortals.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Whether or not fey are ageless is explicitly up to the DM, with fluff provided for both options. http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20040820a

[hamishspence]

Some playable fey explicitly have a maximum age (Uldra, in Frostburn), some playable fey explicitly have no maximum age (Killoren, in Races of the Wild).

So, if all published content is in play and no homebrewing is done, then "It depends on which type of fey it is" could validly be described as "the official answer"

[ShurikVch]

Some of Aberrations are ageless too:

Immortality (Ex): A silthilar does not age, nor can it be harmed by effects that cause magical aging.

[Malphegor]

I was curious about this too, as it seems like most outsiders are written as if they’re ageless except for specific examples… But I guess it was left vague for dms, which is odd when they can be player races with ‘any monster is basically a player character’ philosophy in 3.5

Can a succubus grow old and die of old age?

[Firkraag]

General rule, I've noticed.

The higher CR a creature has and more powerful it described as, the more likely it is ancient and/or ageless somehow.

[ShurikVch]

Warforged explicitly do not age naturally
Correction: they age - their Middle Age is 150 years; but they just never got older than that (as far as we know it - Warforged aren't that old as a race in-setting)


There's a guide to Immortality here (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1179.0). Elans, Warforged, and Killoren are listed as standard races that grant immortality.
They may be immortal, but they aren't, exactly, ageless:
Warforged - see above ↑
Killoren - Middle Age at 30 years, and Old - at 100; but never got to Venerable and have no Maximum Age
Elan - Middle Age at 200 years, Old - at 400, Venerable - at 1000, but have no Maximum Age

[MaxiDuRaritry]

With warforged it's not so bad, but elan really, really want to find some way to become ageless. A surprising number likely become druids -- surprising because you'd think they'd enter psionic classes, not a nature-based one.

[Particle_Man]

With warforged it's not so bad, but elan really, really want to find some way to become ageless. A surprising number likely become druids -- surprising because you'd think they'd enter psionic classes, not a nature-based one.

Maybe 5 levels of Tattooed Monk (with Crane tattoo) (even with prerequisites) would be less painful than 15 levels of druid.

[Maat Mons]

For psionic characters, Crystal Master is an easy way to gain Timeless Body. For divine casters, Contemplative works, as does Holt Warden. Arcane casters, there's Dragon Prophet.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

For psionic characters, Crystal Master is an easy way to gain Timeless Body.Good point, although it can be hard to squeeze 4 levels and the required prereqs into a build. Still much better than 15, though.