View Full Version : A Battle of Titanic Proportions

2007-11-19, 05:27 PM
Alright. I've been DMing for a group of my friends for a while now. They are all still fairly green, but one of them is getting a pretty good grip. Recently I've brought my personal epic character into the campaign in a rumour about government corruption. Long story short, the PC's have decided that they want to duel my epic character with epic characters of their own. I figured it'll be fun so we're doing it next gaming session. Now the characters are all going to be Gestalt, ECL 90 Characters. The only restriction is no psionics. My character is a wizard/sorcerer demilich with a bit of archmage in there at points. There will be five PC's: one monk dragon disciple sort, one evil blackguard cleric sort, one other primarily arcane sort, one rogue barbarian sort, and a hexblade sorcerer dragon disciple. Now the one PC that is catching on is the blackguard cleric. After writing a whole lot of nothing, I am asking for any battle stratagies. I will most likely win the initiative. The Blackguard cleric will have a mindflayer arcane cohort (ECL 40??). Any tips for the battle? Need any more info?

2007-11-19, 05:32 PM
At that ECL? Whoever goes first wins. Literally.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-19, 05:34 PM
Use no save spells on him. Given he's going to be a blackguard, his saves are going to be sky high, so you're not gonna function there. As for the mindflayer cohort, if you've kept your CHA and INT high, one save or die should blast him. Try for an AoE one, at that, since there's always the chance of an unlucky roll from a PC.

2007-11-19, 05:34 PM
ECL _ninety_?

Stop time and, I dunno, do really powerful stuff.

2007-11-19, 05:39 PM
The proper way to run a fight at ECL90 gestalt is to line up and kick each other in the genitals. The first one who falls over loses and his character's soul is devouered by the winner.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-19, 05:43 PM
Pun-Pun and Mortiverse fiddle contest, anyone?

Illiterate Scribe
2007-11-19, 06:02 PM
ECL 90? Flatten the universe. Gate in Piscaethes. Build an effective Samurai.

Your best bet is some nasty epic magic - Cosmic Descryer + Widened, Cosmic Connection-ed Holy Word/Blasphemy/Dictum/Word of Chaos would work too.

Emperor Tippy
2007-11-19, 06:45 PM
The only potential threat to you is the Arcane Caster.

You have epic spellcasting, you have to be unimaginable idiotic to lose when thats the case.

2007-11-19, 06:59 PM
Well...you could simply research an epic spell that does gazillions of damage...waste one level (who cares anyway?) for research. Waste some xp casting it...there you go...make it an area effect and kill of the whole party before they can move...

With ECL 90 though you would probably destroy half the universe (hopefully the other half made it's save...)

What could possess you all to make level 90 characters...and gestalt at that...i'd hate to do all the calculations...skill points and hp must've been a nightmare...not to mention spells/day...

2007-11-19, 07:42 PM
Just for the record, D&D 3.5 isn't really designed to handle characters of that level. Stuff kind of breaks down.

If you want to play gawd, get yourself a copy of Exalted.

2007-11-19, 09:45 PM
Forget the duel. Go kill some overdieties. :smallwink:

2007-11-19, 09:58 PM
*rubs eyes*
*checks again*
*rubs eyes again*

You didn't misplace a zero or something, did you? You're ECL 90 and you're asking for help beating stuff? Alright, if you want help here it is, Celerity+Timestop+ Candle of Invocation/Pun-Pun-ification/ whatever other cheap combo you can think up. At that level, the rules are long past poorly designed, long past broken, long past shattered, and slightly past cheese. The game was just not intended to be taken that high.

2007-11-19, 10:03 PM
How about design several epic spells, each of them specifically designed to kill the person you're fighting. They won't work on anyone else at all in the universe, but they kill that target instantly without any save and trap their soul in your scrotum forever.

Hell, spend 500,000 XP or so and it wouldn't be hard to cast at all.

2007-11-19, 10:05 PM
In response, the calculations were easy for me as I worked my way up. Creating theirs will be insanely tough.

I'm thinking of Time Stop, then just using special built prismatic-force-dimensionally locked cages. But that just traps them, then I need to figure out how to kill them.

I've looked up a couple, whats the best no save, no SR spell out there? Or do I have to just summon a bunch of goons?

2007-11-19, 10:26 PM
I am asking for any battle stratagies. I will most likely win the initiative.Cast the epic spell "I win". It has as its effect, "The caster wins".

Then one of the casters on the other side casts the immediate-action epic spell "No you don't, so there"

ECL 90 D&D has exactly the same set of rules as cops-and-robbers, as played by five-year-olds.

2007-11-19, 10:43 PM
Epic spells...
Nailed o the sky. Victim is so high up he takes cold damage and begins to suffocate. As he falls, the earth moves away from him at the same right. Initiate that one with something to prevent a teleportation.

Another epic spell causes arcane casters to start dumping one prepared spell, or spell slot per round, starting from the highest.
Aww, forgot Eidolon. Lose a caster level, create a 21st level version of youself. You can keep giving levels to him to boost his level. So instead of a level 90 you. You can have 2 level 55. And if you're that good with your characters and they're taht bad, the 40 level difference won't matter much.

Don't go for melee fighting, because it'll just take too long trying to kill each other.

Emperor Tippy
2007-11-19, 10:52 PM
Let's put it this way. At level 21, with epic spell casting, one can make and cast a spell that actually creates a permanent sun.

Combat above about level 50 literally involves you throwing around spells that destroy planets as collateral damage. Or use whole solar systems as a material component.

When Boccob wants to create a new spell he invites you over for tea and asks your advice and opinion. You are more powerful than the combined might of every deity in the greyhawk Parthenon.

2007-11-19, 10:59 PM
Persistent Time Stop = Win.

2007-11-19, 11:21 PM
If you want to be really, *really* cheesy about it, develop an epic spell to boost your casting stats as high as you can. At ECL 90, you should be able to hit a Spellcraft check of at least 100 or so without really working at it. (That is, with just ranks invested and Int bonus. If you've got a custom Epic item of +Spellcraft, the sky's the limit.) So you'll get an enhancement bonus of around +40 or so (about 80 points of Spellcraft DC on the Fortify seed) with a duration of 40 hours. Cast that spell. Now cast a new version of that spell with a bonus of +50, using your new Int bonus to the Spellcraft check. The bonuses don't stack, but the highest bonus point you can reach is bounded only by the time you have to spend developing new epic spells. It's quicker if you instead develop versions that give different bonus types so they stack; they're harder to use than enhancement, so these other spells will probably be in the +20-30 range.

Once you're done with those spells, your normal Intelligence should be somewhere in the hundreds. Time to develop your weapon. (Somewhere in this process the character will have an idle thought that reveals the answer to every unsolvable mystery of life. He will intuit the Reason for Life, The Universe, and Everything. This is normal. Do not let it distract you.) This is another Epic spell, using the 'Slay' seed. Make it either quickened or standard cast time, it doesn't matter much right now. Specify that 'protection from death effects' does not work against it and spend all the rest of your Spellcraft DC buffer pumping up its DC. Find your target, cast it. Between your buffed Intelligence bonus to the DC and the innate property you put in the spell, your target should hopefully need a 20 to save.

If you want to be a little less cheesy, only make a spell for the Intelligence/Charisma boosts. Rest and enjoy the horde of bonus spells you have for having an extra +40 to your casting stats.

Inyssius Tor
2007-11-19, 11:33 PM
Persistent Time Stop = Win.

Except you can't Persist time stop, because it doesn't work that way.

...not to say that, with epic casting, you can't easily stop time permanently and objectively for everyone but the caster.

2007-11-19, 11:53 PM
I would do something like consume the plane that they currently reside on as a material component to cast a spell that obliterates the planes they go to when they die from being consumed. Seriously, you could kill every god at once.

2007-11-20, 03:00 AM
You're playing your own character as a DM, and you are going to fight it out with them? That automatically sounds like a bad idea to me. Remember the objective isn't for the DM to win, but to create a fun game for everyone. Ease back on the win buttons i would say...

2007-11-20, 04:32 AM
okay, i realise that a ton of posts have made this sort of point, but its simple.
At ECL 90, you went past 'as unto a god' 40 levels ago.
Just reshape the universe with naught but the power of your mind, so that your opponents never existed. As a free action. Then reshape the universe into your personal view of heaven, just because you can.
The Fabric of Reality itself is now your plaything, and noone and nothing can stop that:smallcool:

2007-11-20, 12:25 PM
Okay guys lets put away the toys and get down to business. Seriously look at THIS THREA (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23726)D that I made ages ago. I never wrote up the spell in there to the best of my knowledge but it really isn't that hard to do. At level 90 though you can make a version of that but using something the size of Hawaii. (if you haven't read the thread yet do so now)

BTW as for a set up for this I would suggest that the gods move you to an alternate material plane with no life on it to avoid the collateral damage that would inevitably occur. Heck with 90 levels/ECL of treasure, items, and epic level spells I could CREATE a universe let alone destroy one.

Also since Boccob is a deity of magic and has access to every spell in existence plus divine powers you probably couldn't beat him if he got the first shot in. Mostly because there wouldn't be a second.

To quote Schlock Mercenary: "If you're leaving scorch marks you need a bigger gun"

2007-11-20, 01:36 PM
Cast the epic spell "I win". It has as its effect, "The caster wins".

Then one of the casters on the other side casts the immediate-action epic spell "No you don't, so there"

ECL 90 D&D has exactly the same set of rules as cops-and-robbers, as played by five-year-olds.

Well said. I think you're setting yourself up for a disappointment here.

Idea Man
2007-11-20, 01:37 PM
Level 90, huh? Simulacrums. Lots of simulacrums. Or just one, let them slug it out with him, then move in to finish them off. Any plan that works with one epic wizard works better with the failsafe of a second one.

Even worse, if you were a red wizard, you could make the perfect circle of casters, able to donate 10th lvl spells or higher. Free metamagic power, in huge quantities.

2007-11-20, 05:23 PM
Epic Leadership+Legendary Commander=80,000 followers
make 1/10 of them wizards.
The day before the duel:
create an epic spell of DC 1 that gives you:
+2000 to Cha for 24 hours

You now have 1,080,000 followers.
Repeat another 7 times
At the end of the day you should have about one million billion followers and enough time to make one more epic spell before the day is up.
That last epic spell should create and destroy a creature with several million HD, roughly the same level of ability scores, every spell as an SLA at CL 1,000,000, AC 1,000,000, SR 1,000,000 and anything else you can think of. The spell should also premanently transform (Dispel DC should be in the billions) you into that recently created (and destroyed) creature.

Or you could just create a spell that finds and deals 100000d100 untyped damage to all of them and whatever plane(t) they're on with +10^10 to SR checks and save DC 10^10...

Congradulations, you win D&D.

2007-11-21, 08:21 AM

'nuf said

2007-11-21, 09:02 AM
Go for the eyes. That's my only advice. Go for the eyes.


2007-11-21, 10:33 AM
... Long story short, the PC's have decided that they want to duel my epic character with epic characters of their own. ...

cool campaign, where the players got PC's that play D&D and want to play epic-level characters :smallbiggrin:

2007-11-21, 11:41 AM
Awaken the earth...then make an epic spell that does the same that ice assassin does as a free action. Timestop. Ice assassin your enemies...now they each have to fight an exact version of themselves and you...now cast an epic version of fireball whenever you feel like participating...shape it so you don't hit the ice assassins and yourself...congatulations...you destroyed the solar system...plane shift to another plane that actually exists...shape reality to make it your paradise...go to the infinite planes of abyss, stop the blood war by existing, laugh at the demon princes, go to the nine hells, laugh at asmodeus...Destroy both planes...awaken the plane mechanus and ask it why it's there and who created it...