Should Barbarian Rage be a short rest replenishing resource?

[Mastikator]

Has anyone used a house rule like this? Make rage recharge on short rests, how many charges would you have now? Half? Same? Does it break anything or make barbarians too good if at level 10 they can rage 4 times per short rest instead of long rest? It seems like it makes unlimited rages at level 20 less valuable since basically by level 3 you can rage almost every combat. Is that really a bad thing?

[diplomancer]

No. Barbarians are fine in Tier 1 and 2, and poor in Tiers 3 and 4. You don't solve that problem by giving them a big boost in Tiers 1 and 2; if anything, you make it worse. Now they're probably the best martials in those early tiers, and if the game progresses to later tiers, now they're stuck with a poor character.

[Bjarkmundur]

No.

But DnD isn't always about the "should I?" and sometimes about the "could I?"

Short and Long abilities are balanced on a 3:1 basis. So having one rage that replenishes on a short rest is the equavalent on having 3 rages per long rest. now this does happen for the barbarian until 3rd level. So far so balanced.

The problem is that now whereas a long rest barbarian would get an additional rage per long rest at levels 6, 12 and 17, the short rest barbarian still has the same amount of rages.

So sure, go ahead, try it out! It's good for levels 1-2, it's the same for levels 3-5, and then becomes less powerful than long rest rages at levels 6-16, at which point you'd get your 2nd rage use that recharges per short rest, and you're back in balance.

Overall, I don't think this would change a lot, so feel free to try it out, without having angered the meta-gods.

EDIT: I FORGOT THAT A LOT OF DMs ALLOW THE PLAYERS TO GAIN THE BENEFITS OF MORE THAN 2 SHORT RESTS A DAY.

[stoutstien]

Unfortunately it would further devalue barbarians as a class rather than a dip. You could do something alone the lines of they can recover a rage instead of a SR rather than part of one to prevent this.

[tKUUNK]

Some options to consider if you want to make this change:

- Work off a reduced # of rages per rest. So at lv1, instead of two rages per short rest, make it one rage per rest. Otherwise, you may go from "the barbarian doesn't have enough rage" to "this ability is effectively always on".

- A totally different change you could try: keep Rage as a long rest ability, but instead of tracking # of rages available, track individual rounds of Rage available. In other words, at level one, the barbarian would get twenty rounds (2x10) of Rage per long rest. Split them up however you like. I'm not pretending like this isn't a boost in power, because it is. Just throwing it out there in case it sounds like an acceptable compromise at your table.

[elyktsorb]

Mm.. Make my druid/monk/barbarian dreams more of a reality...

But I don't think so. I think the amount of rages you get is generally fine since you usually only whip it out for fights. You have 3 by 3rd level, and I find most people don't do three major fights a day.

[Khrysaes]

Well, if it is a problem at tiers 3 and 4 it could be made a short rest improvement at level 11 or whatever. Maybe as an addendum to relentless rage.

[Gtdead]

If Rage was mostly an offensive buff like Reckless I'd have no problem with it being always on but it's a defensive one and a fairly potent one at that. Perhaps the STR check advantage should be more available though.

[loki_ragnarock]

You'd want to make it a transition in tier 3. Just throw in "Your rages now replenish after a short rest" to the end of Relentless Rage.

And then you'd *also* want to give them a class feature that allows them to use a "rage" for alternative things. My suggestion would be to replace Brutal Critical with an offensive, defensive, and exploration option, fueled by Rage. It'd be a real Sophie's Choice when you get the first one at 9, but much more usable after gaining the newly revised Relentless Rage.

Something like:
Brutal Talents:
At 9th, 13th, and 17th level the Barbarian must choose their Brutal Talents from the following list

Brutal Strike: When making an attack roll, the barbarian may expend one use of Rage to make the attack a critical hit. Further, whenever the Barbarian critically hits, add a number of weapon dice to this critical hit equal to half their proficiency bonus.
Brutal Sacrifice: When an ally has been hit by an attack roll, the barbarian may expend one use of Rage to move their speed. If after moving they are adjacent to the ally, they may take the damage instead. The barbarian gains resistance to all damage types from the intercepted attack.
Brutal Mind: When making an intelligence or wisdom check, the barbarian may expend a use of Rage to add a number of d6 equal to half their proficiency bonus.


Brutal Mind is just me throwing paint at a wall, frankly, but it'd spice up tier 3 play a good bit on a class that needs it.

[tKUUNK]

Loki, great ideas. As an alternative to Brutal Mind, maybe something like, Add your strength bonus to a single Wis, Int, or Cha check (or even a saving throw as a reaction...i mean, if you're burning a rage to do it, you're going to hit empty pretty fast...)

[Thunderous Mojo]

Unfortunately it would further devalue barbarians as a class rather than a dip. You could do something alone the lines of they can recover a rage instead of a SR rather than part of one to prevent this.

This is an interesting idea...give the Barbarian class a Rage Recovery Method, similar to a Psi Warrior's Psionic Energy Die Recovery.

I believe this is going to be a new houserule for me.

Expect 5 Quatloos to be Zelle'd over to you Stoutstein.🃏

[stoutstien]

This is an interesting idea...give the Barbarian class a Rage Recovery Method, similar to a Psi Warrior's Psionic Energy Die Recovery.

I believe this is going to be a new houserule for me.

Expect 5 Quatloos to be Zelle'd over to you Stoutstein.🃏

Aye. I'm currently working on a complete rework for S/L rest as a form of resource recover gates that is based on the idea of partial recovery depending on what they player decides to do. So monks for example recover 1 ki per minute as long as they are meditating so they can grab 1-2 ki here and there rather than all or nothing on a SR.

[Bobthewizard]

I don't think a barbarian that rages every fight is unbalanced, and a non-raging barbarian is terrible and mechanically boring since most of the subclass abilities are gated behind rage. As a long rest resource, rage is too easy to lose, so I let my players recover rage on a short rest. It's fine.

If they lose initiative they aren't raging, and then it costs them a bonus action their first turn. Otherwise, I just assume they are always raging.

[diplomancer]

One small buff I would give Barbarians, rage-wise, is to eliminate the ending condition of not attacking or taking damage. I'm not sure, but it feels to me more of a legacy thing than a balance thing.

[Dienekes]

I don't think a barbarian that rages every fight is unbalanced, and a non-raging barbarian is terrible and mechanically boring since most of the subclass abilities are gated behind rage. As a long rest resource, rage is too easy to lose, so I let my players recover rage on a short rest. It's fine.

If they lose initiative they aren't raging, and then it costs them a bonus action their first turn. Otherwise, I just assume they are always raging.

This is kind of the thing. Rage is possibly the single strongest martial ability in the early levels (except Moon Druid Wild shape). Definitely at level 1. Effectively doubling hit points along with a damage boost is impressive. But you are right, if a Barbarian isn’t raging it’s essentially just a sad Fighter.

Two ways to solve this is by just giving them other things to do in combat. Or make Rage something that is expected every fight, but is a little weaker at lower levels.

You could do that by making making the defense scaling damage reduction, or perhaps that Resistance gets added at level 5ish or something. Or have Rage come with Temp HP that scales on your Barbarian level.


One small buff I would give Barbarians, rage-wise, is to eliminate the ending condition of not attacking or taking damage. I'm not sure, but it feels to me more of a legacy thing than a balance thing.

Personally, I like that condition. Though I don’t think it’s a balance point so much as it is making the Barbarian play to fit the flavor. The Barbarian is supposed to be the angry uncontrollable beast. Sitting around waiting for the perfect moment to strike is antithetical to the goals of the class, even if it is tactically the optimal choice. You’re out there to rush into combat and keeping smacking things until you win or you’re dead.

[Kane0]

Has anyone used a house rule like this? Make rage recharge on short rests, how many charges would you have now? Half? Same? Does it break anything or make barbarians too good if at level 10 they can rage 4 times per short rest instead of long rest? It seems like it makes unlimited rages at level 20 less valuable since basically by level 3 you can rage almost every combat. Is that really a bad thing?

Honestly I don't bother limiting rages at all really. It's fun to see the players use rage outside of combat and like you say, it's pretty rare the barbarian won't have a rage available for a combat unless you take measures to end it early (my players particularly hate Calm Emotions).

[Ralanr]

A barbarian without rage is a worse fighter. But rage is so powerful that it requires being put to a long rest (which is frustrating because it puts barbarians in the long rest group when martial characters are supposed to be good at keeping things up). You'd need to change rage if you wanted to make it a short rest resource, and in doing so you have to change the barbarian.

My favorite class has a lot of problems that aren't considered as such because they work just fine. Which is fair, I'm just sure that after monk and sorcerer, barbarian might get some complaints.

[Joe the Rat]

Personally, I like that condition. Though I don’t think it’s a balance point so much as it is making the Barbarian play to fit the flavor. The Barbarian is supposed to be the angry uncontrollable beast. Sitting around waiting for the perfect moment to strike is antithetical to the goals of the class, even if it is tactically the optimal choice. You’re out there to rush into combat and keeping smacking things until you win or you’re dead.
I have yet to see a barb "chill out" from a rage, but the scenario I most expect to see is getting stuck unable to reach your next opponent this round - you didn't get hit since your last turn, just dashed at a guy, and come up five feet short. I'm not sold on having to burn resources to stay angry in this sort of situation. Loosely, I'm adding "moving to engage" as a qualifying event.

But sitting back for a round? Nah, taking a breather isn't going to cut it.