Just a thought about the Sapphire Guard...

[Greg]

Does their oath allow them to seek out other gates? Will they lose their paladin abilities if it doesn't? In that case, is it likely that Hinjo will pursue the other gates? I think not. Roy will have to be rezzed before the Order can pursue the other gates.

[Kish]

Does their oath allow them to seek out other gates? Will they lose their paladin abilities if it doesn't? In that case, is it likely that Hinjo will pursue the other gates? I think not. Roy will have to be rezzed before the Order can pursue the other gates.
There no longer is a Sapphire, so I doubt anything about the Sapphire Guard applies anymore. Those who survived are now just a generic paladin order based in Azure City.

[Fussy]

The paladins didn't know that their name was literal, as they didn't know that the sapphire was a gate. They probably assume the name is based on something else, and the throne stone (fun to say) was representative of that. It could be possible that they believed it meant Azure City Guard, only with a nicer stone. mmm, blue.

As such, they probably still consider themselves to be The Sapphire Guard, and will go back and attempt to re-take Azure City. If they do, they will probably stay there to 'defend' it (not knowing what Xykon is really up to) but I'm sure Hinjo will let some paladins help out the OoTS at some point, and let them leave Azure City.

[Yoritomo Himeko]

Does their oath allow them to seek out other gates? Will they lose their paladin abilities if it doesn't? In that case, is it likely that Hinjo will pursue the other gates? I think not. Roy will have to be rezzed before the Order can pursue the other gates.

Yes, the oath prevents them from seeking out the other gates. So that means that Hinjo will eventually split from Elan and go find the rest of the Sapphire Guard.

[David Argall]

The paladins didn't know that their name was literal, as they didn't know that the sapphire was a gate.
While there may be parts of the secrets that not every paladin knows, they would know the basics. They are there to guard that gate and that means knowing that gate is there.


but I'm sure Hinjo will let some paladins help out the OoTS at some point, and let them leave Azure City.
Why? Their whole culture is centered on the Azure City Gate and they have that oath that forbids any contact with the other gates.
They have a gate to restore and guard, and that is what they will do.

[Rogue 7]

There no longer is a Sapphire, so I doubt anything about the Sapphire Guard applies anymore. Those who survived are now just a generic paladin order based in Azure City.

However, it would strike me that their honor is still the most important thing to them. I don't see why they would give it up.

[The Extinguisher]

This isn't anything a paladin would think of, but with the gate gone, it would seem the oath is negilable.

Because they can't repair it. Both original creators are dead and (SoD spoilers) thier souls are sealed away, preventing resserection and I don't think they made notes on the spells.

And doing nothing while the world dies is a pretty evil and chaotic act. Helping reinforce the other gates are pretty much the only thing the other paladins CAN do.

And yes, they did know the sapphire was the gate. Hinjo, Miko and O-Chul all knew about it, and it is to be assumed that the others did as well.

[Yoritomo Himeko]

This isn't anything a paladin would think of, but with the gate gone, it would seem the oath is negilable.

Because they can't repair it. Both original creators are dead and (SoD spoilers) thier souls are sealed away, preventing resserection and I don't think they made notes on the spells.

And doing nothing while the world dies is a pretty evil and chaotic act. Helping reinforce the other gates are pretty much the only thing the other paladins CAN do.

And yes, they did know the sapphire was the gate. Hinjo, Miko and O-Chul all knew about it, and it is to be assumed that the others did as well.

Yeah, but there's not much more they can do. The OOTS should take care of the gates themselves, they know more about the gates than anyone else. And only Roy can defeat Redcloak and Xykon.

The Sapphire Guard should be the ones to reclaim and restore Azure City. I don't know why Hinjo's not looking for them. And I still don't understand why Lien isn't guarding Hinjo. That would free up the OOTS to reunite find out more about Girrard's gate.

[Kreistor]

The Sapphire Guard should be the ones to reclaim and restore Azure City. I don't know why Hinjo's not looking for them. And I still don't understand why Lien isn't guarding Hinjo. That would free up the OOTS to reunite find out more about Girrard's gate.

Perhaps because the vast majority of them died in the throne room? We don't know of any besides O'chul, Lien, and Hinjo left. the Sapphire Guard may be down to all of three members.

And the OotS can't re-unite if they have no idea where each other are, so no matter what happens wrt the Sapphire Guard, Durkon, Elan, and V are stuck with Hinjo, since they have no idea where to go, or if anyone else is actually alive.

[David Argall]

Perhaps because the vast majority of them died in the throne room? We don't know of any besides O'chul, Lien, and Hinjo left. the Sapphire Guard may be down to all of three members.
It's pretty easy to establish that only about half of those in Azure City died in the throne room. [Of course, most of the rest probably died in the streets when the enemy broke thru the wall.] 413 says there were over 100 paladins in the city, and counts of those in the throne room have difficulty reaching 50. 413 also tells us there were a large number of paladins outside the city and unable to reach it in time. This number is unclear, but at least a substantial percentage of 100 and may exceed 100. Of course, paladins being the direct sort, they may have simply returned to Azure city and banged away at whatever barrier Xykon put up until they starved to death. But there should be a number of paladins who have returned and are part of Hinjo's forces now.


And the OotS can't re-unite if they have no idea where each other are, so no matter what happens wrt the Sapphire Guard, Durkon, Elan, and V are stuck with Hinjo, since they have no idea where to go, or if anyone else is actually alive.
Actually Durkon, V, and Elan have a very good idea where Haley and Belkar are. They just can't reach them there. If they had no idea, they probably are best off just trying to recruit new members and hunt down the next gate.
If they can't get to Roy, their best idea might be to trail the lich and his army, which would mean sticking around with Hinjo for the moment.

[factotum]

Yes, the oath prevents them from seeking out the other gates. So that means that Hinjo will eventually split from Elan and go find the rest of the Sapphire Guard.

The oath prevents them seeking out the other gates UNLESS there is evidence of a threat to those gates. I think Xykon having just destroyed Azure City in an attempt to get at one of the gates counts as pretty clear evidence of a threat, so the oath is no longer relevant.

However, Hinjo is the leader of Azure City, and as such his first duty is to his people. He can't spare the resources to help the OotS (or what's left of them) with Girard's Gate, and in fact, it's in his interests to NOT speed them on their way, since they're the most powerful assets he's got!

[hamishspence]

factoid. All remaining Azure city troops who were not at docks were killed when She Who Must Not Be Named broke the gate despite yells of "No, Don't!" from founder of Guard. How many of them do you think would have been surviving paladins? What could Hinjo have done with a whole lot of extra troops? and, given that it did not take out Redcloak and Xykon, does that make it a big mistake?

[RMS Oceanic]

As to the original point, Shojo said:


The paladins won't make a move without evidence of a direct threat to the gates.

I believe said assault on Azure City would be considered evidence of a direct threat, so I could see Hinjo, once his power base is settled, sending paladins to help protect the remaining two gates.

[David Argall]

Now ignoring that the paladins take a quite strict view of their oath, and that we do not know the precise wording, what paladins does Hinjo have to send? Lind is a sea specialist. Not the type to send to a desert. Hinjo is the city ruler. If he leaves the city, Kubota [or some other noble that is presumably no better] will become the new ruler. Not an option.
And the OOTS is 13th level. A paladin of less than 10th is hardly worth the bother of taking along. Maybe O-Chul might qualify, but he can't be more than 11th, and he is still a long way from rescued.
Hinjo might loan the OOTS a ship to get to the Western continent, but that is about the limit of the help he can provide.