TSR suing WOTC for Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership

[n00b]

Who can explain what this means? And what will happen next?

[Millstone85]

Wasn't there like two or three different TSR recently, until they all changed their names?

[Tanarii]

{Scrubbed} Things like the diversity statement just before Tasha's release, and the Legacy Disclaimer they include when reprinting some of those products. As the current owners of the trademark, they're not standing for that.

[Greywander]

While I'm not pleased with what WotC's been doing, {scrubbed}, I'm not sure if this suit makes sense. It sounds like this TSR has no relation to the TSR that used to own D&D, so I'm not sure what their standing is in this case. Maybe someone more familiar with the suit and with the companies involved will be able to shed some light on this.

[JadedDM]

Who can explain what this means? And what will happen next?

From what I've read, the whole thing sounds like a grift. It doesn't sound like they have any kind of a case, they're just hoping to stir up some outrage and make some money off of it.

[Gurgeh]

It's pretty clearly a grift. The current "TSR" has done nothing but dog-whistle since its inception.

[Segev]

First I'm hearing of "the current TSR" being a thing at all.

[Tanarii]

Maybe someone more familiar with the suit and with the companies involved will be able to shed some light on this.The judgement of ownership thing should only matter if WotC is sending them C&Ds or otherwise notifying them to stop doing something involving the TSR trademark. They haven't outright said what happened, but they're strongly implying something that they think qualifies with their statement "Wizards of the Coast has continually bullied TSR regarding TSR’s legally owned Trademarks."

The Legacy Disclaimer being libel thing ... eh, who knows. It'd probably take a lawyer or someone who's extensively studied libel law to say if that would have a chance of success. That's not even part of the lawsuit. It's something they "will also pursue in the near future".

[Gurgeh]

I do not see any way in which the legacy disclaimer could be characterised as defamatory. The objection to it is clearly just there to rile up angry culture warriors and part them from their money.

[Grod_The_Giant]

From what I've read, the whole thing sounds like a grift. It doesn't sound like they have any kind of a case, they're just hoping to stir up some outrage and make some money off of it.

I do not see any way in which the legacy disclaimer could be characterised as defamatory. The objection to it is clearly just there to rile up angry culture warriors and part them from their money.
That's what it looks like to me, too--one of Gygax's kids screaming about "cancel culture" until Wizards throws some money at him to buy back the TSR trademark and shut him up. Probably figures that even if he loses he can still cash in on the publicity as a paid speaker or by publishing his own "D&D-but-not-woke" heartbreaker or something like that.

[Tanarii]

I do not see any way in which the legacy disclaimer could be characterised as defamatory. The objection to it is clearly just there to rile up angry culture warriors and part them from their money.
You're probably right about the motive, but "angry culture warriors" are the reason for the Legacy Disclaimer in the first place. So they're unlikely to contribute.

[Kane0]

Sounds like a waste of time and effort for most involved, but then again I didnt read into it much.

[Leon]

Oh look a T$R company is back

[ProsecutorGodot]

You're probably right about the motive, but "angry culture warriors" are the reason for the Legacy Disclaimer in the first place. So they're unlikely to contribute.

Which side is the "angry culture warrior" depends entirely on how you view the recent changes, it's probably impolite to be calling anyone that over their preferences in how a tabletop rpg is run and developed but that's just my opinion.

[Dr.Samurai]

You're probably right about the motive, but "angry culture warriors" are the reason for the Legacy Disclaimer in the first place. So they're unlikely to contribute.
Indeed. The fact that people can say "grift" and "culture warriors" as if the legacy disclaimer is a sincere and genuine message for a real issue that WotC deeply and truly cares about is hilarious.

[Tanarii]

Indeed. The fact that people can say "grift" and "culture warriors" as if the legacy disclaimer is a sincere and genuine message for a real issue that WotC deeply and truly cares about is hilarious.
The grift part might be accurate. Justin LaNasa might be using Ernie Gygax to come up.

[False God]

Is this the same TSR that got summarily denounced by almost every prominent D&D-related business or organization a bit back?

[JonBeowulf]

Indeed. The fact that people can say "grift" and "culture warriors" as if the legacy disclaimer is a sincere and genuine message for a real issue that WotC deeply and truly cares about is hilarious.

This. WotC likely cares about all this as much as the original TSR did back in the day. Scan the landscape, make a public statement or five, go back to business as usual.

It would actually be hilarious if that was their defense.

TSR: "You besmirched our good name!"
WotC: "Yeah... but we didn't really mean it."

[quindraco]

Is this the same TSR that got summarily denounced by almost every prominent D&D-related business or organization a bit back?

Yes, Justin LaNasa's name is on the IndieGoGo, and he's the dude who was partnered with Ernie Gygax back when Ernie managed to wildly overcommit to pissing off the internet, which is what you're thinking of.

Allegedly Justin was responsible for the problematic tweets that made the whole situation worse, but my memory is shaky now as to whether or not we actually knew he wrote them, as opposed to just guessing.

[Greywander]

Indeed. The fact that people can say "grift" and "culture warriors" as if the legacy disclaimer is a sincere and genuine message for a real issue that WotC deeply and truly cares about is hilarious.
Yeah, I don't believe WotC is at all sincere on these issues. And actually, I might be even more concerned if they were. I don't want D&D to turn into political activism. If you want that, Thirsty Sword Lesbians exists.

But this does look like a grift to me. There are a lot of people out there to make an easy buck, and there are gullible people on both sides of the political spectrum. Grifters abound, regardless of where you stand.

[Pirate ninja]

Modly Roger:

Some posts in this thread have crossed the line into politics, and it seems to me to be unlikely that the thread can continue without others doing so. As such, I have closed it.