[3.5] Mundane Unarmed Attacker

[Thurbane]

How would you build an unarmed combatant, who has no spells, spell-like or supernatural abitilies?

By unarmed, I mean using unarmed strikes etc., not natural weapons such as claws, bites or the link. LA +0 race please, no templates, weird races etc.

Babarian gets no Su or Sp abilities by default.
Fighter gets no Su or Sp abilities by default.
Swordsage gets Sense Magic (Su) at 7th (assume Unarmed Swordsage variant is not on the table).
Monk gets Ki Strike (Su) at 4th.
Battle Dancer gets Dance of Reckless Bravery (Su) at 2nd.

Magic items, normal WBL etc. are fine.

I know this will be extremely suboptimal, but I'm interested in what can be done.

Usual restrictions for my table: no PF, no 3rd party, no Kalamar, no Ravenloft (except EtCR), no Dragonlance (except campaign setting), ideally no Dragon (aside from compendium) or Dungeon; no psionics, no incarnum, no Artificers. No UA generic classes, prestige Bard/Paladin/Ranger etc.

Cheers - T

[Zarvistic]

I would go monk 2 and rogue levels after with ascetic rogue and intuitive attack. Perhaps start with a rogue level for skills. Heavy focus on wisdom and dex for attack, ac, stun, perception and stealth. Usual rogue stuff too like lightbringer and craven. Stuff like sun school and snap kick also fun later as well as other options and acfs. The +6 wis races would be nice if available, otherwise a +2 and a bit of age.

[Anthrowhale]

I would go monk 2 and rogue levels after with ascetic rogue and intuitive attack. Perhaps start with a rogue level for skills. Heavy focus on wisdom and dex for attack, ac, stun, perception and stealth. Usual rogue stuff too like lightbringer and craven. Stuff like sun school and snap kick also fun later as well as other options and acfs. The +6 wis races would be nice if available, otherwise a +2 and a bit of age.

Intuitive Attack is Su, right?

Maybe Lightbringer Rogue 3/Monk 2/Sneak Attack Fighter 13/Swordsage 2? The extra bonus to hit is pretty significant. If you can get someone else in the party to take Double Team (or spend a feat on Wild Cohort and have a companion take it), you should be able to do fairly significant damage (11d6+20 sneak attack or 11d6/2+20 sneak attack) if you hit. Using magic items to crank up the odds of hitting seems important.

[Gorthawar]

Not sure if it's RAW but Hammer Fist from Races of Faerun might allow attacks to count as two-handed and therefore give them the 2-1 Power Attack ratio. That should enable most barbarian/fighter/warblade builds.

[Vaern]

I'd just go straight fighter, dumping all of those feat resources into improving unarmed combat. Get the two-weapon fighting chain and then all of the various kicks (snap kick, roundabout kick, flying kick) to give even more unarmed attack options. An attack with a gauntlet is an unarmed strike, so wearing a gauntlet effectively allows you to enhance your fists while retaining all of your unarmed strike bonuses from feats. You could look for a prestige class at some point once you have all of the bonus feats you could ever want, but I don't know of any off the top of my head specializing in unarmed combat that don't also gain supernatural abilities at some point.

[mabriss lethe]

I'll spitball some ideas here.

Honestly? A straight warblade build would work pretty well. Few, if any of their maneuvers are supernatural, all class abilities are EX, You have a lot of mechanical flexibility. You might pepper it with a few levels of something else, Carmendine Monk, maybe. It would give you some Int synergy with Warblade. Superior Unarmed Strike and snap kick are pretty obvious choices. Lion Tribe Warrior could get you a pseudo-pounce when using unarmed strikes (or any other light weapon)

[Maat Mons]

I guess you could use Ascetic Hunter to stack Monk and Ranger levels, if you also use Champion of the Wild to trade Ranger's spellcasting for bonus feats.

You could take up to 7 levels in Drunken Master. Notably, 2 levels of Drunken Master let you use your unarmed damage in place of the damage of an improvised weapon, which means you can deal your unarmed damage at (a short) range. Drunken Master 4 lets you use some improvised weapons as reach weapons, which means you can use one of those ladders with hooks on the end to play a tripper build, and still deal your unarmed damage.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Take chaos martial monk 2 for boosted unarmed strikes, the ability to enhance your unarmed strikes, and whatever 2 fighter feats you want to avoid prereqs on, spirit lion totem whirling frenzy barbarian 1 for pounce, and dip a bunch of other mundane classes (including ToB classes later in the build, but only taking [Ex] maneuvers), and using your WBL to massively enhance your unarmed strikes (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?285801-Tippy-s-Terrifically-Terrible-Trial/page25&p=15474863#post15474863). Note that that particular build does use psychic warrior and cleric, but they aren't needed, since you can get bonus feats through other means. The fact that it has 17 levels of monk is weighing it down an enormous amount, but that was required for the challenge. Instead, go for dips in other classes (mainly because mundane classes are frontloaded all to hell and later levels suck almost universally, so dipping is the best way to go).

[Wildstag]

Scout also only has (Ex) abilities. I would take 1 level of Barbarian for pounce, 10 in Scout for Blindsense and Skirmish (+3d6, +2 AC), and the rest in Fighter to pick up feats. Superior Unarmed Strikes is good for dynamic damage. Versatile Unarmed Strike gets you different damage types. Melee Weapon Mastery is useful as well, but has limited viability. I think the TWFs would be incredibly useful as well.

As for race, I'd go Wood Elf. You get plenty of skill points through Barbarian and Scout, though the Constitution penalty hurts a bit. The Strength and Dexterity bonuses of +2 are really good for a build like this.

[Thurbane]

Great suggestions so far.

Just noticed all of the Shou Disciple's abilities are Ex - it's full BAB and gives a significant boost to unarmed damge.

[Gruftzwerg]

Monk 2 (Fighting Style: Overwhelming Attack - bonus feats = Power Attack + Imp Bullrush)
Fighter 2
Warblade 1
Shou Disciple 5
Drunken Master 2
Frenzied Berserker 5
Fist of the Forest 3

(not ordered!)

Get Iron Heart Surge via Martial Study (min. lvl 9). IHS can be abused to end Frenzy.

Get Shock Trooper and build ubercharger. Buy "claw" weapons and add beast strike. get sizing for your unarmed strike and claws for extra cheese. Now you can size em up to colossal size beast strike (unarmed + claw), with a -2 penalty for each size step difference.

With a monk's belt the build can pump up unarmed strike up to 20th 12th lvl monk:
2 monk + 5 Shou Disciple + 5 Belt = 12
12 + 2 steps from FotF = 20
Arrrg.. just realized the FotF is not available due to SU abilities...
But yeah, almost. Unarmed Strike of a 12th lvl monk. Alcohol for some extra STR if you want. Charge every turn (thx to Stagger allowing for any kind or direction changes). Get Sandals of the Tiger Leap for double unarmed (beast strike) dmg.
Just another ubercharger..^^

edit: forgot to mention "Lion Tribe Warrior" feat for getting pounce

[Darg]

Question, is S&F and OA allowed?

[liquidformat]

well this build does end up giving you claws and bite but everything is EX; wolf totem Barbarian 5/Black Blood Cultist 10/Warblade 5; wolf totem gets you track at lvl 5 as well as trip so oyu only need IUS to qualify for BBC; AFB so can't remember if Lion Spirit totem is ex or su but it is a nice choice. Since you already are going wolf totem might as well take Wolf Berserker at level 1 and knock-down at lvl 6 or so; Superior Unarmed Strike and snap kick should be taken at some point too. Something like waterorc is a great race choice, warforged is another fun one, you can pickup extra slam and have unarmed strikes, 2 claws, 2 slams, and a bite. Could also take the feat chain to get extra claw and slams...

[Thurbane]

Question, is S&F and OA allowed?

Absolutely: all un-updated official 3.0 material is allowed.

[Doctor Despair]

Are Exalted feats OK? They are technically Supernatural, but people might not imagine them that way

[Thurbane]

Are Exalted feats OK? They are technically Supernatural, but people might not imagine them that way

No - I'd like to avoid Su, and since they technically fall into this category, I'd rather not.

Similarly, Lion Totem Barbarian for pounce is also technically Su.

[Doctor Despair]

Is it a low or no magic campaign in general? Will enemies have access to these, or will they be similarly mundane?

[Thurbane]

Is it a low or no magic campaign in general? Will enemies have access to these, or will they be similarly mundane?

It's really just a thought exercise more than anything. Enemies would be of standard types, inclusing casters.

I realise it's a very suboptimal build idea...

[Wildstag]

No - I'd like to avoid Su, and since they technically fall into this category, I'd rather not.

Similarly, Lion Totem Barbarian for pounce is also technically Su.

Wow, they really sneak that supernatural ability line in. That's kinda surprising.

[Thurbane]

I'm thinking Monk dip for IUS and SF, Fighter 2 for feats, 5 levels of Shou Disciple, and the rest in Warblade and/or Swordsage, maybe?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Don't forget to add throwing and distance to your unarmed strikes so you can flurry your way across the battlefield.

[gorfnab]

Based on a previous unarmored swordsman build I came up with a while ago, this should work for a mundane unarmed attacker as well. This is a very defense-based unarmed fighter that starts off slow but at higher levels can really start to mess up other melee attackers.

Human or Strongheart Halfling
1. Swashbuckler - B: Weapon Finesse, Deadly Defense (CS), Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, 2x Flaws
2. Monk - Decisive Strike (PHBII) - B: Improved Unarmed Strike, B: Stunning Fist
3. Monk - B: Combat Reflexes, Carmendine Monk (CoV)
4. Swashbuckler
5. Swashbuckler
6. Thief Acrobat - Versatile Unarmed Strike
7. Thief Acrobat
8. Thief Acrobat
9. Thief Acrobat - Einhander (PHBII)
10. Thief Acrobat or Warblade
11. Warblade or Duelist
12. Warblade or Duelist - Ironheart Aura (ToB)
13. Duelist
14. Duelist
15. Duelist - Robilar's Gambit (PHBII)
16. Duelist
17. Duelist
18. Duelist - Stormgaurd Warrior (ToB)
19. Duelist
20. Duelist

This build uses a number of the options mentioned in this handbook: A short guide to defensive fighting (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?178445-A-short-guide-to-defensive-fighting)

Levels 10 through 12 can be rearranged depending on your needs. The current setup gives you Improved Evasion and Uncanny Dodge at these levels. However, if you don't need Improved Evasion take one less level of Thief Acrobat and move the first level of Warblade to level 10. If you don't need Uncanny Dodge don't take the 2nd level of Warblade and instead go into Duelist a level early. If you don't need either ability, take Warblade at level 10 and enter Duelist at level 11.

Versatile Unarmed Strike makes it so your unarmed strikes are considered piercing for Duelist abilities.

Item:
Vest of Defense (MIC)
Maybe a +X Defending Defensive Surge (MIC) dagger to be wielded but not used to attack
Monk's Belt
Any other Unarmed Strike/Natural Attack Boosting Items

[Doctor Despair]

Here's a thought. Why not go Muckdweller? It's an Ex source of tiny size. Take Confound the Big Folk or Giantbane to force them to be flat-footed regularly and go to town. Quickdraw a weapon (could be an arrow), drop it as a free action, then punch them. Fluff it as a distracting technique that makes enemies drop their guard.

[Darg]

Human

Monk 1 - Lion Tribe Warrior, Stunning Fist (bonus), Unbalancing Strike (OA - Human feat)
Monk 2 - Monk Bonus feat (for evasion)
Dirty Fighter/Thug 3-20 - Craven, Snap Kick, Versatile Unarmed Strike

You can skip the second level of monk if you want, but you do get combat reflexes or deflect arrows, evasion and +1 to all saving throws. Since we can't go 7 levels in monk, Mantis Leap is out of reach. Oh well. SA dice + craven while being a self enabler with stunning fist and unbalancing strike (fort & ref) with the second being usable on every attack to pump out saves and AC reduction makes you self sufficient. Lion tribe warrior gets you a full attack on a charge, snap kick gets you an extra attack on a standard when you cant charge. Versatile unarmed strike lets you swap out your damage type. If you could get intuitive attack that would be the icing, but we are out on that too.

[Vaern]

You could take up to 7 levels in Drunken Master. Notably, 2 levels of Drunken Master let you use your unarmed damage in place of the damage of an improvised weapon, which means you can deal your unarmed damage at (a short) range. Drunken Master 4 lets you use some improvised weapons as reach weapons, which means you can use one of those ladders with hooks on the end to play a tripper build, and still deal your unarmed damage.
Is there anything stopping you from adding unarmed damage when throwing your improvised weapons? Because picking up Throw Anything to deal unarmed damage with a 10-foot range increment could be fun.

[Darg]

Is there anything stopping you from adding unarmed damage when throwing your improvised weapons? Because picking up Throw Anything to deal unarmed damage with a 10-foot range increment could be fun.

Improvised weapons don't need the throw anything feat. You can throw an improvised weapon as a ranged attack with a -4 penalty, range increment of 10, and 50% chance to break when dealing damage.

But, an improvised weapon is not an unarmed attack.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Improvised weapons don't need the throw anything feat. You can throw an improvised weapon as a ranged attack with a -4 penalty, range increment of 10, and 50% chance to break when dealing damage.So that's one of the few ways to break adamantine, obdurium, and riverine without being super-strong or having the ability to disintegrate stuff?

[Darg]

So that's one of the few ways to break adamantine, obdurium, and riverine without being super-strong or having the ability to disintegrate stuff?

Basically, the rules say they aren't designed as weapons so X happens. So yes, probably. A few arguments could be made though.

[Gruftzwerg]

So that's one of the few ways to break adamantine, obdurium, and riverine without being super-strong or having the ability to disintegrate stuff?


Basically, the rules say they aren't designed as weapons so X happens. So yes, probably. A few arguments could be made though.

Ain't this one of the situations where the user may choose the order of the rules to apply, since no order is given by RAW?

Thus the user should be able to decide if he wants to use the improvised weapon rule as last instance or the special properties of the special material as last.

[zlefin]

not checking the other replies and just doing my own.

I'd go with a warblade; taking improved unarmed strike then maybe superior unarmed strike.
There's several non-supernatural strikes that directly add chunks of damage, so you could have decent damage just off the strikes. I'd probably focus on Stone Dragon, Tiger Claw, and Diamond Mind.

The stated rules don't prohibit armor, so I'd use armor to keep my defense at reasonable levels.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

How about taking Leadership for a spellcasting minion or a friendly fiend of possession or something? It's not part of your build, so... A tiefling StP erudite/fiend of possession can buff itself and you while hiding in your weapon, thereby buffing your weapon when it buffs itself.

How about (Ex) Devices from Ravenloft: Legacy of the Blood? Make a monk/artificer inventor who specializes in Frankensteinian mad science using his inventions to bolster his unarmed combat.