Protecting Buffs from Dispels - How to Optimize?

[+5 Vorpal Bunny]

Good evening, members of the Playground! I saw your wonderful conversations and am enjoying learning a lot about D&D 3.5e. This is the first time I am seriously getting into it and would welcome any advice.

I am preparing a support dual caster for Mikela's Good Strikes Back (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?639874-Good-strikes-back-(3-5e)) game; she is specialized in buffing magic, with a secondary focus on healing and Enchantment spells. I have already given her an effective +3 bonus against Dispels by taking Spell Girding and equipping an Orange Ioun Stone. Is there any other way I can fortify her buffs against dispels, especially in a way that's in-character?

I sincerely appreciate any effort, and have a great day!

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Cast lots and lots and lots of magic mouth spells on your gear. This protects against the area versions. Otherwise, a spellblade of both dispel magic and greater dispel magic will protect against the targeted versions.

The only way to avoid being disjoined is basically to not be anywhere near or to block the LoE, such as via instantaneous movement to duck behind cover, since disjunction is basically an auto-dispel.

And a tinfoil hat (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?129012-How-Many-Uses-for-a-Tinfoil-Hat) will protect against both, but only if you've got some way to ready an action to expand the hat. Contingency and Craft Contingent Spell are good for this.

[Eurus]

There are actually a lot of dispels, so you have to be careful if you're relying on spell blades, but at level 18 you probably only have to worry about Greater Dispel Magic, Reaving Dispel, Chain Dispel, Dispel Psionics, and Disjunction. Maybe Wall of Greater Dispel/Greater Dispelling Screen as well.

Spellblades or Spell Turning can mitigate the targeted ones, staggering the CL of your buffs and keeping a buffer of effects like Magic Mouth should work against area dispels, getting your effective CL up to 30 or so makes you pretty much dispel-proof against anyone who's not really specialized for it (except for disjunction).

There's also a Ring of Enduring Arcana, which is a cheap +4 effective CL for the purposes of resisting dispels, worth mentioning for completeness' sake.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You could make your spells into supernatural abilities. Being a dweomerkeeper, for instance, or using innate spellcasting (or psionic manifesting, even class-based) and taking Supernatural Transformation for whichever side of your dual-casting you make innate. Being a manifester/racial caster/cerebremancer, for instance, can let you have Supernatural Transformation for both sides. Or just going StP erudite so both your casting and manifesting are bundled under your psionic manifesting.

[Beni-Kujaku]

My favorite way to foil dispels (besides the Magic Mouth spamming, which is hilarious but may or may not piss off your DM until they disjoin the whole bunch) is to take Shadow Weave Magic and one level of Shadow Adept. Tenacious Magic increases by 4 the DC for dispelling all your spells except for Evocation (which you don't care about, except Contingency) and Transmutation (which you absolutely care about, and is the main flaw of Tenacious Magic). It's also a metamagic feat, so it should decrease by one the level of your Arcane Thesis spells. And obviously, this doesn't affect Disjunction. But nothing affect disjunction except an antimagic field (and even so, not always), so it's not really an issue.

[Silva Stormrage]

Seconding the ring of enduring arcana. The bonus it gives really helps against non dedicated dispellers.

Using prayer beads of karma for a +4 CL can help for long duration buffs you cast at the start of the day. It requires divine casting but that can be bypassed with UMD. Whether its bonus to CL only applies to divine spells or not is up to the DM to decide so make sure to ask them first before you try this trick. RAW it applies to all casting but RAI was that it probably should only apply to divine spellcasters (IMO anyway).

One thing that can be used is simple tactics. They can't use targeted spells on you if they can't see you. Using fog and invisibility and other methods of breaking LoS forces them to rely on AOE dispels which can only remove a single buff and can be defended against much easier by stacking useless permanent buffs with high CL so they are targeted first.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Pumping your caster level and dispel DC is a good start. Ring of Enduring Arcana (CM) adds 4 to the dispel DC for your spells. Create Magic Tattoo (SpC) adds +1 caster level, though that effect is itself dispellable. Ring of Arcane Might adds +1 to your arcane CL. Ankh of Ascension can add +4 to your divine CL for spell slots. If you have a Psion buddy with transparency, there is also the niche power Dispelling Buffer (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/dispellingBuffer.htm), though this would only apply when the target is dispelled. If you have metamagic shenanigans, you can also persist CL-buffers such as Suffer the Flesh (MoE).

For long-term buffs at the start of the day you have more options. Bead of Karma adds +4. Elder Giant Magic (SoX) adds +3 with an easy concentration check. Reserves of Strength (DLCS, *) adds +3. With enough CL-buffing, it takes a very dedicated dispeller to be able to touch your start-of-day buffs.

The other thing you can do is be a great dispeller/counterspeller yourself. If that dual casting has a cleric base, you can get Divine Defiance (FCII) and counterspell the opponents' dispels (and other effects) as an immediate action. This is probably your best bet against Disjunction as well. In this case you'll want general CL bonuses like normal but also dispel bonuses such as the Inquisition Domain for +4 to dispel checks. Edit: Forgot to mention the obvious Ring of Counterspells and Ring of Spell Battle, the latter of which can redirect dispels.

Against area dispels, the Magic Mouth trick works. It seems obnoxious, but it's actually really important against the stupidly-written Dweomer Vortex (Aunoroch) which does not even have a dispel check.

(*)As a buffer, you actually want the DM to rule conservatively on this feat - i.e., that the CL cap can only be increased by the amount of the benefit granted. This is an easy sell, given other interpretations are hilariously broken. Also, just eat the stun; that's why it's listed as a start-of-day buffing feat.

[Biggus]

There's a list of ways to increase caster level here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?484088-3-5-Raising-Caster-Level).

[Feldar]

Ring of Counterspells...

And lest you say "but my ring slots", I recommend getting some weapons that can wear rings for you. 3.0 A&EG had weapons that allowed extra rings for a mere 4000g each. Add a hand of glory and you can wear five rings (six if you dual wield or double weapon and also put a shuriken in your mouth).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Ring of Counterspells...

And lest you say "but my ring slots", I recommend getting some weapons that can wear rings for you. 3.0 A&EG had weapons that allowed extra rings for a mere 4000g each. Add a hand of glory and you can wear five rings.Poison rings from the Dragon Compendium are rings that are usable as weapons, since they have small fold-out blades for injecting poisons on a touch attack. Guess what enhancement you can toss on a poison ring? So you can daisy-chain multiple poison rings together that way.

If the DM doesn't allow you to use the MIC rules to toss the ringsword enhancement on a poison ring directly, there's always a morphing/sizing ringsword so you can turn it into a poison ring...

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Ring of Counterspells is for sure a good thing to add to one's list of ablative defenses - just, like everything else, it is inadequate by itself. Quoting an old Curmudgeon thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?69571-Protecting-Against-Dispel) about protecting against dispel via Spellblades (similar idea, more dysfunctional item):
But then which spell do you choose?

Dispel Magic
Slashing Dispel (PHB2)
Dispel Magic, Greater
Reaving Dispel (Spell Compendium)
Chain Dispel (PH2)
Dispelling Breath (Spell Compendium)
Dispelling Screen (Spell Compendium)
Dispelling Screen, Greater (Spell Compendium)

(Special consideration should also be given to Reciprocal Gyre (Spell Compendium) here. It doesn't dispel your ongoing spells, but it functions like a dispel effect except it damages you for each spell instead.) Protecting from just one of these spells isn't enough.And that's without mentioning more obscure dispels including transparent Dispel Psionics, which would be my #1 choice to put in a ring at the mid levels. Others include Arcane Turmoil and Tenacious Dispelling.

Of course, if you combine some rings with absurdly high buffing CL, you only have to protect against the more potent attacks with items.

[Feldar]

My short answer is it depends on the level of the bad guys really, though I expect dispelling breath wouldn't make the cut generally.

Also, I think a convincing argument can be made that Greater Dispel Magic is essentially Dispel Magic. I would let my players win that argument -- the game is supposed to be a little fun!


keeping a buffer of effects like Magic Mouth should work against area dispels, getting your effective CL up to 30 or so makes you pretty much dispel-proof against anyone who's not really specialized for it (except for disjunction)..

I'm not sure how magic mouth helps -- dispels are resolved from the top down to my knowledge.

[Doctor Despair]

I'm not sure how magic mouth helps -- dispels are resolved from the top down to my knowledge.

Cast the mouths at maximum caster level. Cast the buffs you care about at maximum caster level -1. Then, cast more mouths at minimum caster level. Area dispels either come from the top or bottom, but either way they'll hit mouths first.

It is possible someone would area dispel with Arcane Mastery and do it with a dispel check of exactly your caster level -1, dodging the mouths, but that's a fairly narrow concern.

[Eurus]

I'm not sure how magic mouth helps -- dispels are resolved from the top down to my knowledge.


Cast the mouths at maximum caster level. Cast the buffs you care about at maximum caster level -1. Then, cast more mouths at minimum caster level. Area dispels either come from the top or bottom, but either way they'll hit mouths first.

Yeah, that. I've never gone so far in an actual game as to load up on useless spells just to act as a buffer, but every now and then if there's one buff that I really want to protect I'll intentionally bump it down 1 CL.


It is possible someone would area dispel with Arcane Mastery and do it with a dispel check of exactly your caster level -1, dodging the mouths, but that's a fairly narrow concern.

That's a funny idea that I'd never considered, and not completely implausible if they have Greater Arcane Sight and are smart enough to catch on to why you have all those pointless magic mouth effects on.