New Human

[Pex]

Given floating ASIs for all races of the future, humans in D&D from a game mechanical perspective become obsolete. +1 to everything and nothing else is garbage. No one would play them when all other races have racial features and can get the 16 they want in any prime. There's a little more to it than that, but that's the major thing. Presumably, hopefully, 5E will fix humans in 5.5E because of this. What do you think the new human should look like?

Some ideas:

1) Variant Human becomes the default human. Feats are now official instead of optional. Human gets +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1 and call it a feature a half-feat allows for +3/+1, +2/+2, +2/+1/+1, +1/+1/+1/+1.

2) Human gets +1 to all scores and +1 proficiency

3) Human gets +2 to all scores and a bonus skill proficiency

Optional rule added to optional multiclassing: Human may multiclass within the same class for a different subclass. Follow the normal multiclass rules for spellcasting. When a main class ability that has a number of uses is gained again, add one more use. Restriction: The player may only multiclass two subclasses and may not multiclass at all with a different main class.

I'm not married to these ideas. If you don't like them that's fine. This is a speculation and wishful thinking thread. No harm in discussing why anyone's idea is good or bad.

[OldTrees1]

Tasha's included the new human. It is called "Custom Lineage".

Just allow Custom Lineages to float between +2 vs +1/+1 and it matches the new model.


For a better implementation you would need one of 3 things:
1) Be okay with penalties again. Humans might have fewer positives but they would have fewer negatives.
2) Have a non human centric design. If humans are not the generic standard then they can have their own deviation from the norm.
3) Allow different species to contribute more or less to the character. Characters using a less impactful species would have a more impactful background.

[dafrca]

1) Variant Human becomes the default human. Feats are now official instead of optional.

To be fair, with the number of folks I see in my area and on line using the "Variant Human" it feels almost like it is the default human already. :smallbiggrin:

[TyGuy]

Not using the "optional" rules for ASI or custome lineage is far easier than putting effort into balancing a staple and fair race option. I'm going that route.

If I had to redo human though, I'd make it vanilla by having a generic trait instead of no trait at all. Like, +1 to everything and a generic skill thing. Maybe just fold prodigy or something like it into the base human option.

[EggKookoo]

1) Variant Human becomes the default human. Feats are now official instead of optional. Human gets +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1 and call it a feature a half-feat allows for +3/+1, +2/+2, +2/+1/+1, +1/+1/+1/+1.

If you don't want to make feats official, you could set it up so the DM and player still pick a "racial feature" from the feat list anyway. Something both agree on, and it can be different for each human character.

[neonchameleon]

Given floating ASIs for all races of the future, humans in D&D from a game mechanical perspective become obsolete. +1 to everything and nothing else is garbage. No one would play them when all other races have racial features and can get the 16 they want in any prime. There's a little more to it than that, but that's the major thing. Presumably, hopefully, 5E will fix humans in 5.5E because of this. What do you think the new human should look like?

Some ideas:

1) Variant Human becomes the default human. Feats are now official instead of optional. Human gets +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1 and call it a feature a half-feat allows for +3/+1, +2/+2, +2/+1/+1, +1/+1/+1/+1.

IME default humans were already not a power choice in 5e anyway - but they are still by the D&D Beyond stats about half of all humans when variant humans are basically better at what they are trying to do; as of February 2019 the most popular race was the default human, the second most popular was found by combining all the elves to put them just ahead of the variant human in third (https://www.enworld.org/threads/humans-fighters-and-life-domain-most-popular-on-d-d-beyond.666104/). In all games I've played feats and variant humans have been allowed.


Tasha's included the new human. It is called "Custom Lineage".

Just allow Custom Lineages to float between +2 vs +1/+1 and it matches the new model.

I'm not sure whether custom lineage is intended as a patch for the Darkvision Issue humans have (or more accurately the issue caused by handing out darkvision like candy). But Custom Lineage is basically Variant Human But Better; darkvision > one proficiency and the ability to get to an 18 in your primary stat at first level off the standard array is pretty significant.

[elyktsorb]

as of February 2019 the most popular race was the default human

I can't understand this for multiple reasons. The biggest being that default human isn't very good. Is it just that people see a total of +6 and go 'that has to be the best'?

I can absolutely understand if you always picked a variant human, cause feats are both strong and fun, but regular human is just meh. I've also heard that it's just people being 'i'm human, so I wanna be human' which is just another thing I've never understood.

But let's go in the other direction. Base human get's no stat improvements, and they get 2 feats.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm not married to these ideas. If you don't like them that's fine. This is a speculation and wishful thinking thread. No harm in discussing why anyone's idea is good or bad.
My suggestion.

(Note how 2 +1's (or a +2) = 1 feat in the basic game when using the feat optional rule)

Standard human = four floating +1 and an added proficiency. Common plus an additional languages. A tool proficiency.
vHuman = 2 floating +1 and a feat and an added proficiency. Common, plus an additional language. A tool proficiency.

Humans are versatile and come from a huge variety of backgrounds. Well, implement that, WoTC. :smallfurious:


as of February 2019 the most popular race was the default human I can't understand this for multiple reasons. Because maybe, just maybe, that's an artifact of who is attracted to GiTP (we seem to trend toward optimization at least some what) and don't necessarily see the game through the lens of the majority of players of D&D. :smallsmile:

OBTW, my highest level character is a Bard(Lore) who is a basic human. No vHuman allowed at start up.
Been great fun to play, no regrets. (I prefer vHuman but that makes no difference).
Korvin Starmast was a basic human. (My first 5e PC).

[Pex]

Not using the "optional" rules for ASI or custome lineage is far easier than putting effort into balancing a staple and fair race option. I'm going that route.

If I had to redo human though, I'd make it vanilla by having a generic trait instead of no trait at all. Like, +1 to everything and a generic skill thing. Maybe just fold prodigy or something like it into the base human option.

Pure vanilla is what humans are now. Just adding a skill proficiency does nothing as other races get a skill proficiency and lots more. That's why I had it as +2 to all scores because all ability scores get a bump even when they are Even scores. Humans would have higher ability scores on average to reflect their adaptability. It's a feature no human would have an 8, and at the extreme a character starts with 17 17 17 10 10 10 in Point Buy. I agree that's potent, but that is the point. It makes human competitive. It might be boring plus numbers instead of interesting features, but the plus numbers matter enough to be worth considering. If it is too good then only +2 to all scores and no bonus skill proficiency might be enough.

[Arkhios]

To be fair, with the number of folks I see in my area and on line using the "Variant Human" it feels almost like it is the default human already. :smallbiggrin:

I almost choked on my "coffee" (currently it's 8 pm on a friday, so you can use your imagination what it actually was).

This is so true. It's almost as if it should be the other way around, with all the optional rules being default rules and the only optional rule would be to not allow those certain things. :smallannoyed:


2) Human gets +1 to all scores and +1 proficiency

I just have to say this. This is hardly an improvement on the standard human. One additional proficiency just feels so mediocre. Even if you didn't specify exactly what kind of proficiency.

[JNAProductions]

I almost choked on my "coffee" (currently it's 8 pm on a friday, so you can use your imagination what it actually was).

This is so true. It's almost as if it should be the other way around, with all the optional rules being default rules and the only optional rule would be to not allow those certain things. :smallannoyed:



I just have to say this. This is hardly an improvement on the standard human. One additional proficiency just feels so mediocre. Even if you didn't specify exactly what kind of proficiency.

I think Pex meant your actual proficiency bonus.

Which is, in a word, nuts. It’d make humans the best choice for basically anything and everything.

[BigRedJedi]

I think Pex meant your actual proficiency bonus.

Which is, in a word, nuts. It’d make humans the best choice for basically anything and everything.

It effectively is a +2 in every stat AND an extra use of Proficiency-gated uses of class abilities. Which... would be really strong on some subclasses, and overall useful for all classes... If they got this instead of a Feat and went to the Tasha's floating 2/1 or 1/1/1, stat buff, it might prove too powerful, but I'm actually going to offer this as a playtest race for my next game.

edit: Hexblade and Bladesinger popped into mind as particularly benefitting from the added proficiency. Still will playtest.

[Sorinth]

Rather then just a skill proficiency what about also gaining expertise in that skill?

Powerwise it's similar to if V Human just took their feat to grab Skill Expert but this works for games where feats aren't allowed. So basically the V. Human who took that feat would be either +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1, whereas standard human would still get +1 to every ability score.

[diplomancer]

It effectively is a +2 in every stat AND an extra use of Proficiency-gated uses of class abilities. Which... would be really strong on some subclasses, and overall useful for all classes... If they got this instead of a Feat and went to the Tasha's floating 2/1 or 1/1/1, stat buff, it might prove too powerful, but I'm actually going to offer this as a playtest race for my next game.

edit: Hexblade and Bladesinger popped into mind as particularly benefitting from the added proficiency. Still will playtest.

I think it's a good, and powerful, idea. But it's emphatically NOT +2 in every stat; it doesn't help your damage. It doesn't help your AC. It doesn't increase your HPs. It only helps skills and saves in which you're proficient.

On the other hands, at high levels, once you get to 20 in your main stat, it's better than a +2, as it breaks bounded accuracy. There's a reason that the Ioun Stone that increases your proficiency bonus is legendary.

It's also, as you noted, very good for any class that has features that scale off proficiency bonus, be it the new Tasha's subclasses, or just plain old Expertise/Jack of All Trades.

It's worth a play test, but if it's all humans get (with no ASIs), or perhaps with also an extra skill proficiency, it will actually create that old school feeling of humans starting behind but becoming more powerful as the game progresses. If I were to add an ASI, it'd probably be a bare +1.

[dafrca]

... as of February 2019 the most popular race was the default human,...
I can't understand this for multiple reasons. The biggest being that default human isn't very good. Is it just that people see a total of +6 and go 'that has to be the best'?
This is just a theory not a fact: When teaching the game I often have someone make a generic basic human and walk through the character build process. Then we run a simple one shot. If they seem still interested we build their "real" character together. So on "D&D Beyond" that person would show having built one generic human and one [what ever they chose]. Thus tainting the statistics. Just a thought of course. :smallsmile:

[Luccan]

2 extra proficiencies. Not skills, any proficiency they want. The only caveat is for weapons it's one weapon at a time and for armor you have to get them in order and can't go higher than medium (light before medium or shields). So a human rogue could have medium armor and shield proficiency from the start, while a human barbarian could know how to sail a ship and use a poisoner's kit. You can call the ability Varied or Versatile or something

Probably needs some fine tuning, at least with the armor, but I was inspired by the Half-Elf's two free skills and wanted an approach that increased that versatility without just adding a larger number of extra proficiencies.

[loki_ragnarock]

Perhaps since variants get feats - an optional rule - humans should generally get a benefit from a different optional rule; multiclassing.

Make multiclassing part of the base game, but only for standard humans. They do not have to meet prerequisites for multiclassing. (Everyone else can multiclass as an optional rule, but with standard prerequisites.)

It would give humans a unique niche in standard play and a minor bump exploitable by those with extreme system mastery. And game historians would shake their fists at how the tables on humans had turned, which is always worth some little mirth.

The cost of entry is that they get a bump to a wide variety of stats.


Another minor thing that boosts Standard Human a good bit is making your standard array all uneven numbers.

[Pex]

I think Pex meant your actual proficiency bonus.

Which is, in a word, nuts. It’d make humans the best choice for basically anything and everything.

Yes, I meant this. I borrowed the idea from someone else in another thread. I agree it's strong. I see the potential of being convinced it's too strong. Perhaps human just gets the generic +2/+1 everyone gets instead of +1 to everything and then only this +1 proficiency bonus.

The problem so to speak is humans in D&D history never got racial features. 3E started with giving them bonus stuff, a feat and skill points which was nice for 3E but when translated into 5E became uber for Variant Human due to how 5E feats work. We (I) have been trained to think of human in generic terms. If anyone can think of actual racial features that are cool to have and not just a bonus number I'd be intrigued.

[KorvinStarmast]

Yes, I meant this. I borrowed the idea from someone else in another thread. I agree it's strong. I see the potential of being convinced it's too strong. Perhaps human just gets the generic +2/+1 everyone gets instead of +1 to everything and then only this +1 proficiency bonus.

The problem so to speak is humans in D&D history never got racial features.
They got "no level cap" as a racial feature.

[EggKookoo]

Human racial features should be something that emphasizes their "everyone's second best friend" nature. Maybe a bonus to insight checks in some way? I like the idea that humans think they understand non-humans much better than they actually do.

Another idea could be that they can eat anything. Part of their adaptability. Could that translate into some kind of poison resistance that's more interesting than just resisting poison damage?

[BigRedJedi]

I think it's a good, and powerful, idea. But it's emphatically NOT +2 in every stat; it doesn't help your damage. It doesn't help your AC. It doesn't increase your HPs. It only helps skills and saves in which you're proficient.

On the other hands, at high levels, once you get to 20 in your main stat, it's better than a +2, as it breaks bounded accuracy. There's a reason that the Ioun Stone that increases your proficiency bonus is legendary.

It's also, as you noted, very good for any class that has features that scale off proficiency bonus, be it the new Tasha's subclasses, or just plain old Expertise/Jack of All Trades.

It's worth a play test, but if it's all humans get (with no ASIs), or perhaps with also an extra skill proficiency, it will actually create that old school feeling of humans starting behind but becoming more powerful as the game progresses. If I were to add an ASI, it'd probably be a bare +1.

Fair, though as you note, its value only amplifies as you gain levels.

Oof, I hadn't even thought of the simple things like Expertise/Jack of All Trades... still, looking forward to playtesting it. I do think that your idea of the +1 ASI for the race makes sense if giving the +1 Proficiency.

One thing that another conversion of 5E has done with humans is the Variant becomes the baseline, and Humans have a racial ability to add +1d4 to any d20 roll, recharging on short or long rest (I believe it goes to 2x per rest at 11th level). Human Ingenuity or something, am writing from memory. It's a neat little ability that gives some flavor to bog-standard humans, without being OP.

[sambojin]

+2 to all stats can be a bit silly. Though it would be thematic. A 10Str/ 16Dex/ 16Con/ 13Int/ 16Wis/13Cha character is doable off point buy. Or switch those stats around for whatever reason.

Why is this an advantage? All the mutliclassing. All of it. Anything seriously frontloaded? Grab a lvl or two of it when you want that stuff, and you get a tonne of that stuff with those stats. You could just drop a lvl of cleric or wizard into any build you wanted to, and probably make it "better", with the Dex(initiative)/ Con(concentration) saves/ checks, HP and Perception rolls, so that you're an "expert" in most of the stuff that's likely to happen in any given day.

Human versatility and just having a dab at different careers, during your very short life, etc. Perhaps not a powerhouse, but someone that always has an answer or option in most situations.

But the equivalent of +6ASIs at character creation, rather than the standard 1 1/2 or 2 is bound to have some funnies involved. It's probably a bit OP in the longer term levelling-wise, but so is Tasha's/ v.humans at lvl1, so does this raise the bar higher? Kinda, but not as much as you'd think. Good stats are good, but good abilities to use them with is better.

[TyGuy]

Pure vanilla is what humans are now. Just adding a skill proficiency does nothing as other races get a skill proficiency and lots more. That's why I had it as +2 to all scores because all ability scores get a bump even when they are Even scores. Humans would have higher ability scores on average to reflect their adaptability. It's a feature no human would have an 8, and at the extreme a character starts with 17 17 17 10 10 10 in Point Buy. I agree that's potent, but that is the point. It makes human competitive. It might be boring plus numbers instead of interesting features, but the plus numbers matter enough to be worth considering. If it is too good then only +2 to all scores and no bonus skill proficiency might be enough.
Perhaps two +2 and four +1. And one or two proficiencies in anything: armor, weapon, tool, skill, language, etc. Anything.

[Pex]

They got "no level cap" as a racial feature.

Depends on a certain point of view, Obi-wan. :smallyuk: That reads more of a restriction to demi-humans. It's a racial feature of "you get to play the game" or "nothing happens until the campaign is almost over anyway if it even reaches that far to matter".


Perhaps two +2 and four +1. And one or two proficiencies in anything: armor, weapon, tool, skill, language, etc. Anything.

I like this if +2 to everything is too much. I'd allow for heavy armor and call it a feature someone can go from light armor to heavy armor, but it's not a hill to die on for me if limited to medium armor.

[Witty Username]

I would say variant human is sufficient. I don't think normal human being bad was a floating ASI problem, more that +1s to stats the character doesn't use are not features.

For no feat games, I would throw human an extra skill or two.

[sambojin]

Agreed.

Just give them "you can choose up-to 3 of :
a weapon proficiency;
an armour proficiency (takes two picks);
a skill proficiency;
a tool proficiency;
two languages that you can read, write, understand, and speak fluently, including dialects and written script-forms."

on top of the standard human stuff and be done with it. No actual feat, but still incredibly versatile in many builds and campaigns/ adventures, with the +1 all-stats to back it. Weapon'y, armour'y, or skill'y/ tool'y/ talk'y? A mixture of? Take your pick. Choose your destiny!


Ok, it's essentially a feat, but it's a really bad half-feat at best, without any extra +1's or expertise in stats, so the standard human gets one for free :). Kinda like a 1/3 feat, on just being able to use/ do stuff. Badly, but lots of. You're still going to want to stat into Str15 for heavy armour, so that doesn't break too much, it's just a bit cheaper for you in point-buy terms if it's off-class.

Now you know where the half-elves get it from, and why elves like standard humans from time-to-time (and why there are armies of commoners with pikes/ halberds, or longbow archer lines, or men-at-arms, or foot-knights with greatswords, or mounted hedge knights, or diplomats, or craftsmen, or farmers, or folk heroes, or admin staff, or non-clerics into religion, or anything at all in the "standard human" empires or realms? This is why. They're not all variant humans...).

No wonder the rest of the civilized world sees humanity as a bunch of rogues about to be splatted. They are a huge army of mooks, that aren't necessarily great at stuff, but they're slightly better at a lot of stuff than you'd think to look at them. And they're everywhere. And they can all do a few things fairly well, even if they're not great at it.

(Sorta post-tasha's them for a "yeah, whatever, you do you" thing. Some races float stats. Standard humans float proficiencies. That works pretty well. There's lots of builds that would like to grab some decent martial weapons, or heavy armour, or skill/ tool out)

[LudicSavant]

IME default humans were already not a power choice in 5e anyway - but they are still by the D&D Beyond stats about half of all humans when variant humans are basically better at what they are trying to do; as of February 2019 the most popular race was the default human, the second most popular was found by combining all the elves to put them just ahead of the variant human in third (https://www.enworld.org/threads/humans-fighters-and-life-domain-most-popular-on-d-d-beyond.666104/). In all games I've played feats and variant humans have been allowed.

I can't understand this for multiple reasons. The biggest being that default human isn't very good. Is it just that people see a total of +6 and go 'that has to be the best'?

All that the data tells us is the percentage of sheets on D&D Beyond that are labeled default human. Note that this is not actually the same as that percentage of D&D characters actually being default human, for all kinds of reasons, and thus the conclusions we can actually draw from that dataset are more limited than one might assume.

[sambojin]

There's probably a lot of them where people are just trying out spell loadouts, class features, feats for the future, levelling, point-buy caps, etc. Changing the race is irrelevant on core features to a class build in many cases.

I do this a bit on apps on my phone, just to make sure I'm right on what can be done.

[Mastikator]

Yes, I meant this. I borrowed the idea from someone else in another thread. I agree it's strong. I see the potential of being convinced it's too strong. Perhaps human just gets the generic +2/+1 everyone gets instead of +1 to everything and then only this +1 proficiency bonus.

The problem so to speak is humans in D&D history never got racial features. 3E started with giving them bonus stuff, a feat and skill points which was nice for 3E but when translated into 5E became uber for Variant Human due to how 5E feats work. We (I) have been trained to think of human in generic terms. If anyone can think of actual racial features that are cool to have and not just a bonus number I'd be intrigued.

I've given this a lot of thought actually and there absolutely are human racial traits, one unfortunate thing is that those things are actually buried in the base game when they should be human bonuses. I think one area is harsh enough for everyone that giving it humans would feel right.

Humans sweat, this is a very rare trait that humans have. How to translate this into the game? When a human gains a level of exhaustion they can sweat and the exhaustion is removed, once they use this racial trait they can't do it again until they finish a long or short rest. Sweating is a passive effect that takes 1 minute to complete.

Another one is throwing. Throwing kinda sucks in 5th edition and human bone structure is really good for throwing, so here's one: all thrown weapons are finesse for humans when thrown and a human may attempt a called shot that adds +10 damage and -5 to hit when they throw a weapon.

Finally I'd add one language, one two proficiency, one tool proficiency and either one cantrip or two weapon proficiency and light armor.

So the final tally would be:

Ability Score Increase. Increase one ability score by 2 and increase a different one by 1, or increase three different ability scores by 1.

Languages. Common and another one

Creature Type. You are a Humanoid.

Size. You are Medium

Speed. Your walking speed is 30 feet.

Sweat. When you gain a level of exhaustion you begin to sweat, after 1 minute the exhaustion is removed. Once you use this feature you can't until you complete a long rest. At level 3 you can use this feature once you completed a short rest.

Natural balance. Your body is perfectly balanced for throwing, any thrown weapon counts as a finesse weapon for you, and starting at level 5 you can make a called shot that adds +10 to your damage but imposes a -5 penalty on your attack roll.

Versatile. You gain two skill proficiency and one tool proficiency.

Adept. At level 3 you learn one of the following

A cantrip - you choose intelligence, wisdom or charisma for your spellcasting ability
Any two martial or simple weapon proficiencies and armor:

If you have no armor proficiency then you gain light armor
If you have light armor proficiency you gain medium armor and shield proficiency
If you have medium armor you gain heavy armor and shield proficiency
If you have heavy armor proficiency then you ignore strength requirements on heavy armors

[sambojin]

Meh. I'd keep it simple.
------------

You are Humanoid, are Medium size, have 30' movement speed, have +1 to all stats, know the Common language (with a sprinkling of other race's loan-words) and one other language of your choice, a skill proficiency, and:

You can choose three of (can pick the same choice again if wanted) :
a weapon proficiency;
an armour proficiency (takes two picks);
a skill proficiency;
a tool proficiency;
two different languages that you can read, write, understand, and speak fluently, including dialects and written script-forms.
-----------

Keeps it simple, doesn't add magic to a non-inheritantly magical race, is very flexible, and explains the entirety of the race in form and function. Also works fine for character builds too. Sorta "I heard you like Tasha, so I added some Tasha to your non-Tashables..."

It's kinda funny that standard Humans speak Common "better" than other races, due to also mixing loan-words in on it, so I did want to carry over language expertise on the choices for them. It's kinda like English speakers these days in some parts of the internet/ world, with most people knowing a bit of english. I know a surprising amount of spanglish and anglicized anime speak, for instance, and a lot more Aussie'isms even in "Common" than much of the standard speaking population would ever have need for.

Just a basic build:

9+1Str (150lbs carry! Until wildshape...)
15+1Dex (+3 init and AC, faster BFC spells)
14+1Con (+2HP/lvl and concentration. 15?..)
9+1Int (it's a wis build, you're still not dumb)
15+1Wis (yay Perception and druid preps)
8+1Cha (well, you're prettier than a dog)

Druid 1 (into any druid subclass. Even Land or Spores would work. But it's probably a really good druid instead)
Background: Pirate (to break things without problems occuring, and has seen all the beasts on previous travels around the world)
Skills: Athletics/ Perception :from pirate background:, Stealth (subbed Perception), Insight :from Druid class:, Arcana :from human: (You should be able to roll for this when needed).
+Leather worker's tools (if anyone needs custom saddles and studded leather armour, it's a druid. Pirate armour?)
+Animal Handling (it's RP, but you'll never get knocked off your summoned dragon by lvl9 either, or your conjures by 5th)
+Thief's Tools (16Dex and either Guidance or Enhance Ability isn't bad for basic stuff).

Seems like a workable character. +2Wis at 4th, Resilient (Con) at 8th for +3 saves/ checks/ HP. Normal, just handier at what it does, with a couple of extra things it can do. Nothing major, just more well-rounded. Seems pretty human.

[Pex]

I've given this a lot of thought actually and there absolutely are human racial traits, one unfortunate thing is that those things are actually buried in the base game when they should be human bonuses. I think one area is harsh enough for everyone that giving it humans would feel right.

Humans sweat, this is a very rare trait that humans have. How to translate this into the game? When a human gains a level of exhaustion they can sweat and the exhaustion is removed, once they use this racial trait they can't do it again until they finish a long or short rest. Sweating is a passive effect that takes 1 minute to complete.

Another one is throwing. Throwing kinda sucks in 5th edition and human bone structure is really good for throwing, so here's one: all thrown weapons are finesse for humans when thrown and a human may attempt a called shot that adds +10 damage and -5 to hit when they throw a weapon.

Finally I'd add one language, one two proficiency, one tool proficiency and either one cantrip or two weapon proficiency and light armor.

So the final tally would be:

Ability Score Increase. Increase one ability score by 2 and increase a different one by 1, or increase three different ability scores by 1.

Languages. Common and another one

Creature Type. You are a Humanoid.

Size. You are Medium

Speed. Your walking speed is 30 feet.

Sweat. When you gain a level of exhaustion you begin to sweat, after 1 minute the exhaustion is removed. Once you use this feature you can't until you complete a long rest. At level 3 you can use this feature once you completed a short rest.

Natural balance. Your body is perfectly balanced for throwing, any thrown weapon counts as a finesse weapon for you, and starting at level 5 you can make a called shot that adds +10 to your damage but imposes a -5 penalty on your attack roll.

Versatile. You gain two skill proficiency and one tool proficiency.

Adept. At level 3 you learn one of the following

A cantrip - you choose intelligence, wisdom or charisma for your spellcasting ability
Any two martial or simple weapon proficiencies and armor:

If you have no armor proficiency then you gain light armor
If you have light armor proficiency you gain medium armor and shield proficiency
If you have medium armor you gain heavy armor and shield proficiency
If you have heavy armor proficiency then you ignore strength requirements on heavy armors




I like this.

[sambojin]

^I just want to know how the average human essentially gets Sharp Shooter with thrown weapons (compared to say, a Goliath, that *should* be really good at throwing human-sized weapons really hard), and an option for a cantrip? Because we're "really balanced"? Noted for magical stuff too? Lol

Hmmmm. And no other humanoid sweats? Or mammal? Or creature? Or anything?
Yep, definite exhaustion of something there. Or someone's dying to run a frenzy barb build. With magic! And throwing stuff!

(I'm not saying there hasn't been a lot of javelin/ spear/ axe/ whatever chucking going on in our history, I'm just saying that it's on a perspective pool of exactly one humanoid species. A half-giant, would in theory, do it better. And magic..... I actually don't mind that. We're pretty sorcerous in our amazingness. On our exhaustion levels? Lol. We're nothing... Zzzzzzzz)

[Gurgeh]

Hmmmm. And no other humanoid sweats? Or mammal? Or creature? Or anything?
Humans are a pretty firm outlier in the real world when it comes to sweat-based cooling; iirc the only other species that sweat enough to cool themselves via evaporation are horses. So you could probably count it as a reasonable point of difference without breaking verisimiltude for all but the most obviously human-with-funny-ears races.

[LudicSavant]

^I just want to know how the average human essentially gets Sharp Shooter with thrown weapons (compared to say, a Goliath, that *should* be really good at throwing human-sized weapons really hard), and an option for a cantrip? Because we're "really balanced"?

Incidentally, IRL that's basically what humans are much better at than other species: Throwing things. A gorilla physically can't throw a spear as well as we can, despite its strength.

Another thing we're good at is endurance hunting. We're nature's terminators. Oh sure, we might not run as fast as you, but we can use our mighty power of sweating in order to just keep on slowly walking after you until you have to rest.

[Khrysaes]

I made a variant base human for some of my games.

To be clear, I used the Detect Balance guide
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vq1kz6PRAbw5LHy6amH-bNb4OuB8DBXL1RsZROt03Sc/htmlview

There is also only a limited selection of races, not everything released by WOTC, so this may not be balanced in comparison to all races.

The methodology was
No Darkvision
Each Race should be worth 32 points
Floating Ability scores (ala Tasha's, but before tasha's came out)
Unarmored AC and Unarmed Strike applied to all races

Human
Ability Scores: Choice of +2/+2, +2/+1/+1, or +1/+1/+1/+1
Speed: 30ft
Languages: Common +2 Language
Unarmored AC: 11 +1 dex
Unarmed Strike: 1d4+ Strength Bludgeoning damage
Lucky: As Halfling in the PHB
Choice of Two Skill Proficiencies
Choice of Two Tool Proficiencies
Bonus d4 to one chosen skill and tool


With the release of tasha's I may update choice of two tools, to martial weapons, simple weapons, or tools

[elyktsorb]

Incidentally, IRL that's basically what humans are much better at than other species: Throwing things. A gorilla physically can't throw a spear as well as we can, despite its strength.

Another thing we're good at is endurance hunting. We're nature's terminators. Oh sure, we might not run as fast as you, but we can use our mighty power of sweating in order to just keep on slowly walking after you until you have to rest.

I mean I understand the irl stats of a human, but that would imply every other humanoid race isn't made to throw things, like, is there any reason a wide variety of the various other humanoids wouldn't have that?
(remember when halflings were good at throwing stuff?)

There's also the fact that Ape's in 5e 'can' throw stuff. They can throw a rock with almost the same range you get on a sling.

I also just feel like throwing deserves better than being buffed by just being a racial bonus.

Similarly for the sweating thing, that would kind of imply all those other humanoid races don't sweat, and while I'm sure the case could be made for like, Dragonborn, Tortle's, Aarakocra, etc. I have a hard time believing Dwarves don't sweat.

[Gurgeh]

I also just feel like throwing deserves better than being buffed by just being a racial bonus.
It is a bit silly that every thrown weapon apart from the Javelin has equal or worse range to that of an improvised thrown weapon (20/60) - like, you can't expect me to believe that a dart or dagger or handaxe can't be thrown farther than a greatsword.

Perhaps change it so that any weapon with the Thrown property has only one range, similar to spells or the Soulknife's psychic blades: you can hit all the way to your maximum range without disadvantage, but you can't go any further than that.

[Pex]

Dwarves are mountain people. Not truly rock but of the rock. They have a slightly more tolerance of heat to enable being so close to their forges for a long time. They don't sweat.

Graceful beautiful elves DO NOT sweat.

Gnomes: See dwarves

Halflings walk on bare feat. They are minor acclimated to the elements. They don't sweat.

[Waterdeep Merch]

I've experimented with balancing variant humans and half-elves pre-Tasha's by giving them less dice to throw during stat generation. You could do much the same thing with point buy easily enough. Give the normal human, say, 5 more points during point buy. They'd still be locked to a 16 max, so I can't imagine it being busted.

[JNAProductions]

I've experimented with balancing variant humans and half-elves pre-Tasha's by giving them less dice to throw during stat generation. You could do much the same thing with point buy easily enough. Give the normal human, say, 5 more points during point buy. They'd still be locked to a 16 max, so I can't imagine it being busted.

That kinda runs into the issue of what makes vanilla Humans bad.

5 extra points in Point Buy gets you more stats... But usually in the less important ones. That's not NOTHING, but it ain't as good as points in your prime stat.

[Bjarkmundur]

I like the one from 4e.

If we convert that one, and have the bonus feat and bad ability score cancel each other out (feats were core in 4e, not optional), ignore the defense bonus since those are no longer relevant in 5e, we end up with something like this:

+2/+1 ability scores of your choice
Extra Skill of your choice

Then they had their racial ability. One was focused on having more flexibility, the other on reliability.

You can choose the Martial Adept, Metamagic Adept or Lucky feat at level 1.

These three feats encapsulate perfectly what the human is all about. They do things other do, but they hyperfixate and go a step beyond. Nothing is as scary as a human with the means and drive for greatness. This is what has made them a dominant force in the world, dispite their abysmal physiology and lifespan.

[Saelethil]

After looking at what others here have said I looked at the half-elf and kind of extrapolated from there.

Human
Ability Scores: Increase one ability score of your choice by 2 and 2 ability scores of your choice by 1. (Or all by 1? Not sure how this balances out.)
Size: Medium or small (there is a huge variety in humans in real life, might as well allow that here)
Speed: 30 feet
Languages: Common
Human Versatility: Choose 3 skills, weapons, tools, musical instruments, languages, or levels of armor. If you choose armor it increases the level of armor given by your class from none ->light ->medium & shields -> heavy.
Human Tenacity: you can recover from one level of exhaustion during a sort rest. Once you use this ability you cannot use it again until you complete a long rest.

I feel like this balances out removing the "elf" half of a half elf. In many settings humans can be found pretty much anywhere which suggests that they are far more versatile than the other fantasy races. As has also been pointed out, we humans may not be the fastest or most imminent threat but if they want to get somewhere (either toward a target or away from a threat) they will get there with minimal rest thanks to sweating but I wanted a name that didn't denote a bodily fluid.

[dafrca]

Just curious, do we know if the designers even have hinted at a human re-write or adjustment?

I admit I like a few of the ideas here and woudl not mind if a few became official but I wonder if they are even thinking along any of these lines.

[Pex]

After looking at what others here have said I looked at the half-elf and kind of extrapolated from there.

Human
Ability Scores: Increase one ability score of your choice by 2 and 2 ability scores of your choice by 1. (Or all by 1? Not sure how this balances out.)
Size: Medium or small (there is a huge variety in humans in real life, might as well allow that here)
Speed: 30 feet
Languages: Common
Human Versatility: Choose 3 skills, weapons, tools, musical instruments, languages, or levels of armor. If you choose armor it increases the level of armor given by your class from none ->light ->medium & shields -> heavy.
Human Tenacity: you can recover from one level of exhaustion during a sort rest. Once you use this ability you cannot use it again until you complete a long rest.

I feel like this balances out removing the "elf" half of a half elf. In many settings humans can be found pretty much anywhere which suggests that they are far more versatile than the other fantasy races. As has also been pointed out, we humans may not be the fastest or most imminent threat but if they want to get somewhere (either toward a target or away from a threat) they will get there with minimal rest thanks to sweating but I wanted a name that didn't denote a bodily fluid.

I like this too.


Just curious, do we know if the designers even have hinted at a human re-write or adjustment?

I admit I like a few of the ideas here and woudl not mind if a few became official but I wonder if they are even thinking along any of these lines.

No. This is just me ranting disguised as a thread due to the floating ASI rules of Tasha giving diddly squat to humans. (Let's not debate Tasha here. :smallyuk:) It's a long pet peeve of mine since my 2E days where for any RPG game system, D&D started it in my perspective, non-human races get cool stuff and humans get bupkis. I was thrilled 3E gave them something potent if bland. In 5E Variant Human is only a variant because they chose to make feats optional. More seriously I am curious of people's ideas on improving human. Even before Tasha non-humans get most of the publicity in character creation because of their racial features and roleplay. Players tend to play Variant Human only for the feat, not for roleplaying reasons. Nothing wrong with that, but it's rare in my experience to play one otherwise. It's possible only in my bias head.

[elyktsorb]

Dwarves are mountain people. Not truly rock but of the rock. They have a slightly more tolerance of heat to enable being so close to their forges for a long time. They don't sweat.

Graceful beautiful elves DO NOT sweat.

Gnomes: See dwarves

Halflings walk on bare feat. They are minor acclimated to the elements. They don't sweat.

Now this is just making me think that every race aside from humans pants like a dog.

[MoiMagnus]

Two different ideas we toyed with in homebrew (not of 5e specifically, but I'm translating them):

Adrenaline Rush: During your turn you can use this ability to make an additional action or bonus action (or object interaction). At any moment, you can use this ability to make an additional reaction. [This does not bypass effects that prevent you from making actions or reactions]. You can use this ability once per long rest.

Human's Heroism: Whenever you make an attack/ability check/saving throw (including death saving throws), you can use this ability (1) before the roll, to force the result of the d20 to be a natural 20, or (2) after the roll, to reroll the d20 and keep the new result. You can use this ability once per long rest.

Both were quite interesting to play with.

[loki_ragnarock]

Now this is just making me think that every race aside from humans pants like a dog.

The coppery red hair and beard of dwarves is weird biological copper filament that pulls heat from their bodies into the atmosphere like a heatsink. This is why it's important to cover it in cool ale regularly while forging; the act of quaffing - getting more drink on you than in you - is a vitally important act for regulating temperature in high heat scenarios.

That's why dwarves don't shave; it would annihilate their ability to regulate their internal temperature. Shaving is a capital punishment for only the highest, most despicable crimes, as it is essentially a certain - if slow - death by heatstroke. And possibly blood loss due to the capillary action integrated into the filaments.


Elves totally pant, though.

[Pex]

Two different ideas we toyed with in homebrew (not of 5e specifically, but I'm translating them):

Adrenaline Rush: During your turn you can use this ability to make an additional action or bonus action (or object interaction). At any moment, you can use this ability to make an additional reaction. [This does not bypass effects that prevent you from making actions or reactions]. You can use this ability once per long rest.

Human's Heroism: Whenever you make an attack/ability check/saving throw (including death saving throws), you can use this ability (1) before the roll, to force the result of the d20 to be a natural 20, or (2) after the roll, to reroll the d20 and keep the new result. You can use this ability once per long rest.

Both were quite interesting to play with.

The reroll is fine, but not the auto20. It's easily exploited to get a critical hit at the most opportune time, especially with smite and sneak attack, and never as DM would you give a human a vorpal sword. However, if you disagree and consider these possibilities as a feature, that fine for you. I would not see WOTC doing that but yes to the reroll.

[EggKookoo]

The reroll is fine, but not the auto20. It's easily exploited to get a critical hit at the most opportune time, especially with smite and sneak attack, and never as DM would you give a human a vorpal sword. However, if you disagree and consider these possibilities as a feature, that fine for you. I would not see WOTC doing that but yes to the reroll.

Is one guaranteed 20 per long rest all that dangerous?

[JNAProductions]

Is one guaranteed 20 per long rest all that dangerous?

At level five, as a Rogue, that's a guaranteed hit for 8d6+4 (32) damage, using a shortsword.
At level five, as a Paladin, that's a guaranteed hit for 8d8+2d6+6 (49) damage, using a longsword, dueling, and smites.

Which might not be CRAZY damage, but it's exactly where you need it. And it just gets worse as you level up-an auto crit is never a bad thing to have in your pocket.

[diplomancer]

At level five, as a Rogue, that's a guaranteed hit for 8d6+4 (32) damage, using a shortsword.
At level five, as a Paladin, that's a guaranteed hit for 8d8+2d6+6 (49) damage, using a longsword, dueling, and smites.

Which might not be CRAZY damage, but it's exactly where you need it. And it just gets worse as you level up-an auto crit is never a bad thing to have in your pocket.

An auto-20 on a death save, or those crucial save-or-sucks, is also not something to sneer at.

[EggKookoo]

I ask because we revamped Inspiration so that you can choose to auto-succeed with any attack roll, ability check, or saving throw, rather than simply provide advantage for such (you can still choose advantage, this is an additional option). Not a guaranteed crit but like a fiat "you succeed normally" regardless of what the math needs. It works pretty well, as the players know they're getting good value out of it. At the same time, it's available to all PCs, so maybe that helps. If it were available to one race or class, it might distort things.

[MoiMagnus]

The reroll is fine, but not the auto20. It's easily exploited to get a critical hit at the most opportune time, especially with smite and sneak attack, and never as DM would you give a human a vorpal sword. However, if you disagree and consider these possibilities as a feature, that fine for you. I would not see WOTC doing that but yes to the reroll.

Hum, right, now that I think about it, in this homebrew, critical hit was "maximal damage", not "double dice", and additionally there wasn't a lot of "stacking up damage on a single attack". So indeed, maybe a "auto 19" instead of "auto 20" would be a better suited for 5e.

[EggKookoo]

Hum, right, now that I think about it, in this homebrew, critical hit was "maximal damage", not "double dice", and additionally there wasn't a lot of "stacking up damage on a single attack". So indeed, maybe a "auto 19" instead of "auto 20" would be a better suited for 5e.

If you didn't mind the complexity, you could do "auto highest necessary to hit." So if you're +4 and the AC is 18, you get an auto 14. It would still guarantee the hit but (mostly) prevent crit/vorpal shenanigans.

[Dualight]

So indeed, maybe a "auto 19" instead of "auto 20" would be a better suited for 5e.

Rather than an 'auto X' where x= a result on 1d20, automatic success would fit best, 18-20 can all result in guaranteed critical hits(only the Champion gets that, to my knowledge, but it bears remarking on as being in the PHB), and lower than that makes it miss out on the intended effect of 'success at the right moment.' Assuming that guaranteed success on 1 roll 1/long rest is the goal, phrasing it as "When making an attack roll, you can choose to forgo rolling the d20 to automatically hit. Alternatively, when you make an ability check(except contested checks) or saving throw, you can choose to automatically meet the DC for the check/save, instead of rolling. Once you use either option, you cannot use this feature until you finish a long rest."

At least, I think that this captures the intent without running afoul of any mechanics that depend on the exact number rolled on the d20.
The (except contested checks) clause is because contested checks(which include Initiative) do not have a DC, and sometimes(like with Initiative) do not have a formal 'success' condition.

EDIT:
If you didn't mind the complexity, you could do "auto highest necessary to hit." So if you're +4 and the AC is 18, you get an auto 14. It would still guarantee the hit but (mostly) prevent crit/vorpal shenanigans.
While I was writing, someone else had a similar idea. A problem here is for situations where a nat 20 is the only way to score that hit. Granted, I think that those situations will not be relevant for anyone who has ways of exploiting auto-crits, but the potential remains, at least in theory.

[BigRedJedi]

Rather than an 'auto X' where x= a result on 1d20, automatic success would fit best, 18-20 can all result in guaranteed critical hits(only the Champion gets that, to my knowledge, but it bears remarking on as being in the PHB), and lower than that makes it miss out on the intended effect of 'success at the right moment.' Assuming that guaranteed success on 1 roll 1/long rest is the goal, phrasing it as "When making an attack roll, you can choose to forgo rolling the d20 to automatically hit. Alternatively, when you make an ability check(except contested checks) or saving throw, you can choose to automatically meet the DC for the check/save, instead of rolling. Once you use either option, you cannot use this feature until you finish a long rest."

At least, I think that this captures the intent without running afoul of any mechanics that depend on the exact number rolled on the d20.
The (except contested checks) clause is because contested checks(which include Initiative) do not have a DC, and sometimes(like with Initiative) do not have a formal 'success' condition.

EDIT:
While I was writing, someone else had a similar idea. A problem here is for situations where a nat 20 is the only way to score that hit. Granted, I think that those situations will not be relevant for anyone who has ways of exploiting auto-crits, but the potential remains, at least in theory.

Simpler: "When you fail an ability check, saving throw, or attack roll, use this feature (no action) to treat it as a success, instead. Must complete a long rest to use this feature again."

[EggKookoo]

Simpler: "When you fail an ability check, saving throw, or attack roll, use this feature (no action) to treat it as a success, instead. Must complete a long rest to use this feature again."

Perhaps with the clause that you apply this feature to the overall roll, not any particular die, to sidestep confusion over advantage/disadvantage/lucky/etc.

[Amechra]

In the game I'm currently running, humans get a bonus Background and nothing else (I'm running starting languages as being purely cultural, and I handed out an ASI at 1st level instead of tying stat increases to races). It's actually been working out pretty well.

[BigRedJedi]

Perhaps with the clause that you apply this feature to the overall roll, not any particular die, to sidestep confusion over advantage/disadvantage/lucky/etc.

The "when you fail" clause would imply that it is after any other roll-adjusting modifiers, such as adv/disadv/etc as you mention. Though, as with all things 5E, additional legal terms and conditions are probably useful.

[dafrca]

In the game I'm currently running, ... I handed out an ASI at 1st level instead of tying stat increases to races ....
So no race gets any ASI at creation and all races get a single +1 because they are Level 1?

Just want to make sure I understand what you are doing. :smallsmile:

[Amechra]

So no race gets any ASI at creation and all races get a single +1 because they are Level 1?

Just want to make sure I understand what you are doing. :smallsmile:

Basically, I gave everyone an improved standard array (16/14/13/12/10/8), and then gave them a full ASI (that they could trade for a feat if they so chose).

Post-Tasha's, I decided that having almost every race give you a floating +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1 to ability scores was kinda silly, so I decided to just bundle it with picking out your ability scores.

[paladinn]

Thread-based thought: the variant human needs to become the "standard" human. Even if a DM doesn't use feats throughout the game, they are appropriate here, at least for a starting character.

Non-thread-based thought: the changes in Tasha's almost require a 6e or at least a 5.5e. There have been so many changes and additions in Tasha's and Xanathar's that really need to be folded into the core sub/classes. And the changes to racial abilities invalidate much of what went before. It all needs to be consolidated, if only to eliminate the need to consult multiple volumes. IMHO

[MoiMagnus]

Non-thread-based thought: the changes in Tasha's almost require a 6e or at least a 5.5e. There have been so many changes and additions in Tasha's and Xanathar's that really need to be folded into the core sub/classes. And the changes to racial abilities invalidate much of what went before. It all needs to be consolidated, if only to eliminate the need to consult multiple volumes. IMHO


The 5.5e was officially announced. Well, technically, what was announced was a new version of the PHB/MM/DMG with modified rules (like significantly reworked monster stat blocks), but compatible with pre-existing books (so not a 6e), but I think that's reasonable to call it a 5.5e even if doesn't have this name as far as I know.

And while there is still time for them to backtrack on Tasha's change (or compromise, like keeping the +2/+1 floating as in Tasha's but giving a "typical ASI choice for the race" with an optional rule to make them mandatory), I'd guess incorporating Tasha into the core books is one of the goal of this 5.5e. The upcoming (not sure if a starting year has been announced yet) playtest and feedback will probably have some effect on it.

[Pex]

Is one guaranteed 20 per long rest all that dangerous?


At level five, as a Rogue, that's a guaranteed hit for 8d6+4 (32) damage, using a shortsword.
At level five, as a Paladin, that's a guaranteed hit for 8d8+2d6+6 (49) damage, using a longsword, dueling, and smites.

Which might not be CRAZY damage, but it's exactly where you need it. And it just gets worse as you level up-an auto crit is never a bad thing to have in your pocket.


An auto-20 on a death save, or those crucial save-or-sucks, is also not something to sneer at.

On the other hand, the idea is worth comparison to Divination Wizard Portent. Two random d20 rolls per long rest, eventually three, the player will have a 20 from time to time. The game already allows for an autocrit. The Diviner can give the 20 to someone else. Hypothetical human can only do it for himself. This hypothetical human does have incentive to use the auto20 on something other than the crit. Sometimes you really need to make that save. Maybe in practice it does work compared to on paper.

[MrCharlie]

+1 to all ability scores, three skill proficiencies of your choice, expertise in one skill, and proficiency in one tool and language of your choice.

(as an alternative to expertise, four skills instead)

In addition to being useful, it forms a continuum with half-elf. Elves get specialized ability scores and highly developed traits. Half-Elves get less developed traits, but have the best attributes. Compared to humans half elves lose a skill and expertise, but get better attributes and traits.

In order for a generalist to be valid, this is the degree of bonus you'd need. And yes, regular humans are underpowered to the tune of three skills. Regular humans are awful.

[bid]

Just-as-boring buman v2: get +1 to all and another +1 to 3 worst (+1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +2).

15 15 15 8 8 8 becomes 16 16 16 10 10 10
15 14 13 12 10 8 becomes 16 15 14 14 12 10
13 13 13 12 12 12 becomes 14 14 14 14 14 14