Strixhaven Initiate - would you allow it on a different setting

[ironkid]

Reading the Strixhaven book, I do find the background too strong for anything except strixhaven itself. But the feat, strixhaven initiate - would yuou allow it in you non-strixhaven game? It IS stronger than magic initiate, but I do have the feeling it's the way MI SHOULD have worked all along :vaarsuvius: what do you think?

[Greywander]

Looks fine to me. In fact, I might houserule Magic Initiate to also allow casting the 1st level spell using spell slots. Otherwise, it's very similar to Magic Initiate. MI is a bit more flexible, but SI offers some combinations that you can't get from MI.

[BigRedJedi]

Looks fine to me. In fact, I might houserule Magic Initiate to also allow casting the 1st level spell using spell slots. Otherwise, it's very similar to Magic Initiate. MI is a bit more flexible, but SI offers some combinations that you can't get from MI.

Have always run that particular MI houserule, since the Artificer version came out, and this one looks nice but not OP. Would Allow.

The Background can fork right off, holy power creep, Batman.

[Greywander]

The Background can fork right off, holy power creep, Batman.
Yeah, I'm generally pretty permissive when it comes to player options (I'm fine with yaun-ti or flying races, for example), but the PHB pretty clearly lays out what a background is: two skills, two languages/tools, a background feature (which is usually a minor RP or narrative buff, never a combat buff), and a package of equipment. As such, I generally assume that Ravnica backgrounds aren't allowed unless explicit DM permission is given, and it looks like the same will apply to the Strixhaven backgrounds.

Like honestly, just create an extra category of player options. Theros did it with its supernatural gifts. That way the backgrounds can still be regular backgrounds that could be used in any campaign.

All that said, I think something like the Ravnica backgrounds could be pretty cool. Being able to customize your spellcaster by building an expanded spell list for them could really allow you to create some unique characters (like a wizard from a more nature-inclined tradition getting access to things like Awaken, for example). For Strixhaven, just give everyone a free feat at 1st level, and you can choose SI as your free feat if you want.

[Thunderous Mojo]

Strixhaven Initiate is strictly worse than Magic Initiate, especially if TCoE options are available.

I've always allowed spells gained through Magic Initiate to be cast through spell slots...that is what learning a spell means, after all.....but the freedom to select Cantrips like BB, or Mind Sliver is what elevates Magic Initiate over the Strixhaven Initiate feat.

[Khrysaes]

The key improvement Strixhaven Initiate has over Magic Initiate is the ability to choose the spellcasting ability score that may be different than the one of the class the spells are gained from classes that don't use that ability score.

So Healing word on a wizard with Intelligence. Strixhaven Initiate

The key downside is the limited selection of cantrips.

[Waterdeep Merch]

I'd never allow it for a non-Strixhaven character, but I'd be willing to hear out a player that wants to play as a student from Strixhaven in a non-Strixhaven game. I tend to allow first level feats for everyone anyway, so I'd just count SI as their's.

In exchange for losing that flexibility, they'd be the only one able to access the mascot feat and their college's unique spell. That's a lot of power, though, and a certain flavor that might not fit in every game. So, depends on who's asking and why.

[Sparky McDibben]

My position on this is to let the player pitch me why they have this. Not from a mechanical standpoint, but from a narrative one. I am more concerned with if something will break the tone of the campaign than it's mechanical impact.

[sambojin]

There's not as much there as you'd think, due to the real power lvl1 spells being stat independent. Things like Bless, Color Spray, Expeditious Retreat (just for a bonus action use), Find Familiar, Heroism, Hex/ Hunter's Mark, or Goodberry, etc. Although, upcastability is nice on some of these.

Grabbing something like Entangle from Druid, Guiding Bolt from Cleric, Tasha's Hideous Laughter from Wiz/ Bard, or even Zephyr Strike from Ranger is good for a bit of fun, especially when you can link them to your main casting stat or build. It just gives you good options that still stay ok'ish (and some quite good), when lower level spell slots are lacking uses in the average combat encounter. Some can be upcast (or you don't care if you use a lvl2 slot on it) too.

But it's not as good as you think. There's some "nice'ish" cantrips with the feat, but there's some nice'ish spells from other feats too, where the spell school limitations work fine (Fey Touched with Bless kinda covers all your teleporting and buffing needs through an entire campaign, without a single cantrip needed).

[Greywander]

My position on this is to let the player pitch me why they have this. Not from a mechanical standpoint, but from a narrative one. I am more concerned with if something will break the tone of the campaign than it's mechanical impact.
How do you feel about refluffing? Because SI would be supremely easy to simply roll in as "it was part of the magical tradition I trained under", or "I dabbled a bit in general magical theory" or even "it must be a forgotten magical bloodline that has suddenly manifested". All it is is two cantrips and a 1st level spell, not hard to justify. Unless the only justification you accept is "why yes, I did study at Strixhaven."

[Sparky McDibben]

How do you feel about refluffing? Because SI would be supremely easy to simply roll in as "it was part of the magical tradition I trained under", or "I dabbled a bit in general magical theory" or even "it must be a forgotten magical bloodline that has suddenly manifested". All it is is two cantrips and a 1st level spell, not hard to justify. Unless the only justification you accept is "why yes, I did study at Strixhaven."

To me, that's a nope. You didn't want to play "general magical theory" PC, you wanted to play a Strixhaven PC. Now, if you want an expanded spell list, or a secondary consideration for your character because you think it'll make your character's theme come together, then we'll discuss that (and I tend to be pretty lenient on these, especially post-Tasha's). But a Strixhaven background? You have to have come from Strixhaven.

In other words, if you want a more powerful character, I can deal with that and I'm more than willing to discuss it. You just have to pitch it to me in a way that sells me in-world about why your character has this option when no other sorcerer does. It's not terribly hard. "My character studied under her dragon ancestor, a green wyrm named Malystryx, and that's why she (a draconic soul sorcerer) should get access to these extra spells." Personally, I'm sold, assuming that the spells are reasonable. It gives me an NPC I can use to create interesting situations, makes the DS sorcerer a better option compared to Tasha's, and gets the PC more invested in the setting.

If I get some bull-crap like, "Uh, I got sucked through a portal at Strixhaven..." my first question is, "How does your character intend on getting back? I mean, that's got to be a major motivation for them, right? Aside from just, 'Stay Alive'?"

[Greywander]

To be clear, we're talking about the feat, not the background. I agree that non-standard backgrounds should generally be off-limits, and I'd prefer to see the non-standard parts split off into a separate character customization option so that all players can be allowed access to those options, if the DM permits it. Something like the supernatural gifts from Theros. It's much easier to just say, "Everyone gets to pick one supernatural gift," than it is to allow someone to take a Strixhaven or Ravnica background and then try to balance it out by offering the other players something else instead (or giving the other players nothing, resulting in an imbalanced party).

But the feat by itself is fine. It really is just a slightly tweaked Magic Initiate. It offers less choice in your cantrip options, but allows for combinations that aren't available with Magic Initiate. Personally, I wouldn't require any kind of justification, though on a non-caster I'd want to know how/why your character is able to use magic (which again, isn't hard to justify).

I'll also add that sometimes the game doesn't always need to be balanced. You can have a situation like with Gandalf in The Hobbit, where you have one high level PC hanging out with lower level PCs. You can let one player build a half-dragon lycantrhope character. Or just... actually take a dragon stat block and start applying class levels to it. But for any of these to work, you need to have the right table. It takes a particular group of people to make this work in a game, one where they care more about having fun and doing cool stuff than they do about being strong and winning. It's difficult to pull off with strangers, but a group of close friends might have a blast with this type of game. So there may be times when you want to deviate from a balanced game, but it does generally make sense to start with a balanced game as your foundation and then go from there.

(Another thing worth mentioning is that both Strixhaven and Ravnica are probably designed around different power levels than the default 5e game. As such, it makes a lot more sense that the player options for these settings might be specifically intended to stay in those settings. I still think it would have worked better to do it like the supernatural gifts from Theros, or to make them feats or something that you get for free in that setting (which is more or less what Strixhaven did, though the backgrounds give more than just the free feat). Basically, use the same baseline for balancing, but then add extra options on top of that baseline to move the power level to where you want it. That way, those extra options can be ignored in standard 5e games, or used with discretion.)

[Waterdeep Merch]

To be clear, we're talking about the feat, not the background.
Ah, so we are.

The feat's perfectly fine to my eyes. I just had a conversation with my regulars about possibly expanding MI thanks to this- I can think of excellent builds made by "unlocking" MI to use whatever casting stat you want, and choosing any sort of spells.

It's strong like that, no doubt. But I don't think it's particularly busted and it allows for some interesting setups, so I'm willing to give my players a shot with it.

[Zhorn]

Strixhaven Initiate... I'm more inclined to just redirect my players to Magic Initiate instead. The cantrip choice is far more broad, and I already rule that you can spend spell slots for additional castings of spells you've learned from any source.

Strixhaven Initiate seems like the type of feat created to solve a problem when a solution was already available. They could have just had "all characters starting in the Strixhaven campaign setting also gain the Magic Initiate feat at character creation". Instead they wanted to have the names of the campaign setting as a more prominent aspect of character identity.

[dafrca]

Sadly the more I hear about Strixhaven the more I think I am going to pass on it and leave it out of my games. I just do not have the budget to buy every book and then dislike it or to buy it just so a single player can have some odd thing from the book.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Sadly the more I hear about Strixhaven the more I think I am going to pass on it and leave it out of my games. I just do not have the budget to buy every book and then dislike it or to buy it just so a single player can have some odd thing from the book.

Owning it and having flipped through it a bit now (it's sitting right next to me as I type this), it's not a sound purchase if you have no desire to run a Strixhaven game.

Honestly, it's a bit lacking in that department, too. At least if you plan to run the adventure straight from the book without coming up with a lot of your own material. I've got fans of Persona and Harry Potter in my playerbase, so I'm going to make this work. Just a shame that it didn't flesh itself out more.

[Zhorn]

Owning it and having flipped through it a bit now (it's sitting right next to me as I type this), it's not a sound purchase if you have no desire to run a Strixhaven game.

Honestly, it's a bit lacking in that department, too. At least if you plan to run the adventure straight from the book without coming up with a lot of your own material. I've got fans of Persona and Harry Potter in my playerbase, so I'm going to make this work. Just a shame that it didn't flesh itself out more.

From what I've been hearing, those who are fans of the magical-school genre will be the ones that like it the most, but they will also find it the most predictable in terms of where the plot is going or how events are written to play out.

[BerzerkerUnit]

I routinely provide an "event" that allows PCs to learn various magic initiate feats. Like partying with some Bards inspiring them to the degree they learn a few tricks.

I think the backgrounds are fine which makes the feats just fine by my estimation.

[Waterdeep Merch]

From what I've been hearing, those who are fans of the magical-school genre will be the ones that like it the most, but they will also find it the most predictable in terms of where the plot is going or how events are written to play out.

Bullseye sir- I, too, am a fan of this sort of thing, and I'd been looking forward to the release. While it's lacking in a lot of spots, I can't help but enjoy it, and I'm excited to run it.

I completely understand how this wouldn't appeal to everyone, though, and I'll bet it's not going to sway someone that's not immediately excited by the prospect of roleplaying being a magical college student.

Though it'll be most disappointing of all to someone expecting anything but a setting/adventure to play as a magical college student. It's a very poor value for players especially.

[Greywander]

From what I've been hearing, those who are fans of the magical-school genre will be the ones that like it the most, but they will also find it the most predictable in terms of where the plot is going or how events are written to play out.
I want to say this sounds like lazy writing, but honestly this is probably what people want and expect from a book like this. Like, if they put out a Harry Potter book, they could write a completely original adventure that takes place in the Harry Potter universe... but what people actually want is to just replay the events of the books/movies, but with their characters inserted into the story.

Still, what I'd kind of expect from a setting book like this is a wealth of specific information about the setting, perhaps focused on a specific city. Some time ago, I picked up a 3rd party book in a Humble Bundle that was like this; I think the city in question was called Bard's Gate or something. It had all kinds of information about the different districts in the city, how much buildings or rent costs, and just all kinds of little details ready to go. IIRC, there was like 15 to 20 chapters that was just details about the city (I believe each chapter focused on a different district). This allows a DM to run almost any kind of adventure in that setting and any time they need to improvise something, the book usually already has that information ready. I'd like to see more stuff like this.

[DarknessEternal]

Will allow feat. Will allow backgrounds without automatically including feat.

[Zhorn]

Still, what I'd kind of expect from a setting book like this is a wealth of specific information about the setting, perhaps focused on a specific city.
Still yet to see it first-hand myself, but many of the reviews are starting off with a buyers warning "This is not a sourcebook. This is an adventure module".
How much overlap that would have with a setting book I'm curious of, but I'm not expecting there to be the depth I'd be wanting.

[Khrysaes]

Still yet to see it first-hand myself, but many of the reviews are starting off with a buyers warning "This is not a sourcebook. This is an adventure module".
How much overlap that would have with a setting book I'm curious of, but I'm not expecting there to be the depth I'd be wanting.

It has an adventure included. The adventure takes a lot of space, so they are not wrong. it is 4/7 chapters.

Chapters 1 and 2 are the sourcebook.

3 through 6 are an adventure for levels 1-10, with mentions when to level up.

7 is the bestiary

It is a bit like Eberron: Rising from the last war, both a module and a sourcebook.

There should be enough setting material

[Chronos]

Quoth Greywander:

(Another thing worth mentioning is that both Strixhaven and Ravnica are probably designed around different power levels than the default 5e game. As such, it makes a lot more sense that the player options for these settings might be specifically intended to stay in those settings. I still think it would have worked better to do it like the supernatural gifts from Theros, or to make them feats or something that you get for free in that setting (which is more or less what Strixhaven did, though the backgrounds give more than just the free feat). Basically, use the same baseline for balancing, but then add extra options on top of that baseline to move the power level to where you want it. That way, those extra options can be ignored in standard 5e games, or used with discretion.)
Separating out the power creep from the backgrounds is good even if you're just planning on running Ravnica or Strixhaven. Yeah, if you're running a Ravnica game, then your players can, if they choose, pick one of the Ravnica backgrounds... but what if what fits their character is just the good old Urchin or Hermit or whatever? If some of your players pick the new, more powerful, backgrounds, and others don't, you'll get an imbalance in the party. You'd avoid that imbalance if the power-creep part were separate from the background.

[Psyren]

We're not allowing the backgrounds or feats, they feel very setting-specific. The spells and magic items however are pretty easy to file the serial numbers off of so we're using those. For example, the Cuddly Strixhaven Mascot can just be Mordenkainen's Childhood Plushie or something, and sticking one to the Barbarian's arm is hilarious.

(Oh, and we're also allowing Owlin since our PF campaign had Syrinx.)