PDA

View Full Version : Some Maneuver Questions



Bjarkmundur
2021-12-11, 09:57 AM
Distracting Strikes gives advantage on the next attack roll, doesn't state who it gives advantage to, and deals extra damage NOW.

Feinting attack uses a bonus action and states only you can utilize the advantage it gives, and gives extra damage LATER.

....Am I missing something here?

I get it that one is a setup maneuver while the other one is a combo manuever. Meaning you use on to set up a strike, and another to follow up on a strike. I'm just confused as to why both exist. Is the distinction really important enough that both had to be included when they were being designed?

And where does Precision Attack come into all of this?

stoutstien
2021-12-11, 10:02 AM
Distracting Strikes gives advantage on the next attack roll, doesn't state who it gives advantage to, and deals extra damage NOW.

Feinting attack uses a bonus action and states only you can utilize the advantage it gives, and gives extra damage LATER.

....Am I missing something here?

That's the gist of it. Feint has a 5ft range limit and is mostly for countering disadvantage. distracting's advantage is limited to anyone but you but has no range limit and doesn't eat any actions.

Bjarkmundur
2021-12-11, 10:02 AM
Is there a reason why Parry is a flat damage reduction, rather than an AC buff or resistance, both of which would scale better?

Bjarkmundur
2021-12-11, 10:07 AM
To give Rally some better scaling, and roll off some of it's power at early levels, would you say "Temporary hit points equal to the result of your Superiority Die + Half your level" or "+ your level" would be a more appropriate change.

I really love the flavor and mechanics of this maneuver, but it is regarded as one of the worse ones due to poor numbers. I'd love to bump it up a bit by at least making an honest attempt to fix that.

stoutstien
2021-12-11, 10:09 AM
Is there a reason why Parry is a flat damage reduction, rather than an AC buff or resistance, both of which would scale better?

Well parry is BM dice + dex modifier so it scales a little. It also triggers after the damage so you can judge if it's worth it ad hoc. It isn't that great of an option and since the PHB fighters have gained better mitigation options so it's not the best pick. Still solid for low level but rarely makes the cut.

If you are a dex based melee fighter defensive duelist is a solid feat combined with riposte.

If I had to do one thing to buff party I'd add Prof bonus to the reduction as a quick fix.

Bjarkmundur
2021-12-11, 10:14 AM
Why did Ambush get nerfed from being advantage on either Stealth or Initiative to just being plus Superiority Die to Initiative?

Bjarkmundur
2021-12-11, 10:19 AM
If I had to do one thing to buff party I'd add Prof bonus to the reduction as a quick fix.

I'm going to rule it as Superiority Die + Half your level.

an average of 8 flat damage reduction is really strong in the first few levels, even if you just use it a couple of times :S

stoutstien
2021-12-11, 10:22 AM
Why did Ambush get nerfed from being advantage on either Stealth or Initiative to just being plus Superiority Die to Initiative?

It didn't. Your source seems to be incorrect.

Bjarkmundur
2021-12-11, 11:11 AM
It didn't. Your source seems to be incorrect.

Dude that explains so much, I was tearing my hair out over here x'D

Bjarkmundur
2021-12-11, 11:15 AM
Is menacing attack as broken as I think it is?

Bjarkmundur
2021-12-11, 11:18 AM
Do you need a free hand to use Quick Toss? If yes, then how is it different from Two-Weapon Fighting, which allows you to make a thrown weapon attack as your secondary attack?

If no, isn't it just as good a Riposte and Brace, since it gives you an extra attack you otherwise wouldn't be able to make?

Gurgeh
2021-12-11, 11:26 AM
Quick Toss requires a free hand if you don't intend to throw a weapon you're already holding, but is significantly better than two-weapon fighting for several reasons:

1) It allows you to add your ability modifier to damage without requiring a fighting style.
2) It is not restricted to light melee weapons, so you can use it with a ranged weapon like a net or a dart, or a non-light weapon like a javelin or spear.
3) It does not require you to make the attack action, so you can use it as your sole attack on a turn when you're doing something else (dodging, dashing, drinking a potion, whatever)
4) It does not require you to already have the weapon in hand; while a dedicated throwing build doesn't care about this since all the attacks they make with a thrown weapon let them draw the weapon for free, someone who's just going to occasionally toss an axe or javelin will appreciate having more flexibility in their action economy.

It's also worth noting that the "free hand" clause is fine for anyone using a two-handed weapon (since you only need two hands to attack with the weapon, not to hold it) and for anyone who's focusing on using thrown weapons (since you'll have a free hand every time you attack anyway). It's only really a problem for sword-and-board combatants whose weapon isn't expendable.

EDIT: comparing a bonus action attack to a reaction attack is apples to oranges. The use cases are not comparable.

stoutstien
2021-12-11, 11:32 AM
Is menacing attack as broken as I think it is?

It's good/ borderline strong but not broken. Needing a save, fear immunity, and only lasting one round keeps it in check. Goading has a longer shelf life.

MrCharlie
2021-12-11, 02:22 PM
Is there a reason why Parry is a flat damage reduction, rather than an AC buff or resistance, both of which would scale better?
Overlap with other feats. Defensive duelist occupies a niche where nothing can do exactly what it does, as it's PHB content. Hence we get things like parries which reduce HP damage rather than increase AC.

The real problem is that damage reduction is almost universally the same as temp HP-outside of really niche situations involving poison (the DMG says that injury poisons hit when you take damage, so if you mitigate the damage no poison) or death saves. Rally is basically a better parry, unless you're using your bonus action regularly. Even if you are, superiority dice aren't spammable to the degree needed to make it a good plan.

To give Rally some better scaling, and roll off some of it's power at early levels, would you say "Temporary hit points equal to the result of your Superiority Die + Half your level" or "+ your level" would be a more appropriate change.

I really love the flavor and mechanics of this maneuver, but it is regarded as one of the worse ones due to poor numbers. I'd love to bump it up a bit by at least making an honest attempt to fix that.
Rally is actually great. Temp HP are good, and last until the end of a long rest. Superiority dice recharge on short rest. And damage mitigation is always a good thing. Unless your attacks have incredibly high damage it's a great way to spend dice, as player characters tend to have low HP but high defenses and high damage compared to NPCs-so increasing HP is actually great, as long as it isn't eating into action economy. Most battles are only lost when the party dies, and dead is one of the hardest conditions to recover from.

In terms of scaling-add in your proficiency bonus to the temp HP. Any more and it'll be OP. It might not seem OP in comparison to, say, inspiring leader-but that's because inspiring leader is OP. Abilities that give lot of temp HP are among the best in the game.

Do you need a free hand to use Quick Toss? If yes, then how is it different from Two-Weapon Fighting, which allows you to make a thrown weapon attack as your secondary attack?

If no, isn't it just as good a Riposte and Brace, since it gives you an extra attack you otherwise wouldn't be able to make?
You add your ability modifier to damage, don't have to have the weapon drawn before making the attack, and can use it with any weapon with the thrown property, not merely a light one. One big difference is that you can sword/board with quick toss by making your attacks, sheathing your weapon at the end, then using quick toss once your weapon is sheathed. This comes at the expense of not having a weapon drawn in between turns, so it's not costless.

In terms of how good it is, quick toss is an A+ maneuver. It's good for exactly the same reason riposte and brace are, but trades raw damage (you can't use it with GWM, for instance) for usability with a wider variety of builds in a wider variety of situations. It's also usable with nets, if you need to restrain someone, and is the most action-economy efficient way to use them for 99% of characters.