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Naleh
2007-11-19, 09:40 PM
I'm considering DMing a campaign where the characters are 'ordinary people' - NPC classes and low ability scores. I'm aware that this will make them much weaker for their level than the system was built for. What sorts of adjustments should I make? What level should they start at? Should they pick up PC classes later? Exactly how tough will they be? Can I fit in a fifth question? Oh, wait, I just did.

de-trick
2007-11-19, 09:47 PM
1. Its not that bad would have a small encounters a goblin or 2, a wolf some easy fights
2. level 0 or 1
3.depends if you want them to become great adventures or no(or you can pick most reasonable class sort of a Prestige idea eg a warrior fight barbarian, paladin)
4. not sure really

Caledonian
2007-11-19, 09:48 PM
Instead of putting them through the endless gauntlet of increasingly-potent monsters, why not face them with frequent, minor, and everyday sorts of challenges?

There are lots of ways to make interesting characters, and problems, other than increasing their power. If that means you have to focus on things other than the mechanical system, so be it.

Name_Here
2007-11-19, 09:51 PM
Well I'd say it would be remarkably easy. Just chuck out your D+D books and run a Warhammer RPG game.

But so long as you're set with D+D I'd run the CR straight for pretty difficult fights maybe even half it for the first couple levels. Also I'd probaly cut the treasure down to a bare minimum in order to make the entire thing more gritty and dark and increase the CR at a very slow rate.

reorith
2007-11-19, 09:52 PM
i knew a guy that tried that once. he got upset when everyone died for no reason other than having one level of commoner each. but if you understand how to balance a challenge and use the rules for prestigious classes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm) and level trading and retraining, you'll do fine.

Prometheus
2007-11-19, 10:04 PM
A lot of single player RPGs integrate a lot of verbal and puzzle challenges. This would be switching from the classical "larger than the gods" type of hero to the modern "humble and clever" type of hero. Rather than rolling an Intelligence for knowledge and games or a Diplomacy check to talk to people, you would RP in detail just about everything that you do. This does take out most of the mechanical aspect of the game however.

Wild animals and wounds would represent a realistic threat, but part of the game nevertheless. Of course, the only limitations in the character's mental scores would be their own. You could still have the characters rewarded and gaining experience, of course, but gradually, so the bulk of their progress is the plot and the relationships that they have with NPCs. It would be a very hard thing to pull off well, but would make for a very fun game.

JaxGaret
2007-11-19, 10:04 PM
I'm considering DMing a campaign where the characters are 'ordinary people' - NPC classes and low ability scores.

Okay, go for it, but I have a query: why?


I'm aware that this will make them much weaker for their level than the system was built for. What sorts of adjustments should I make? Exactly how tough will they be?

If you follow WBL, they shouldn't be too much worse than normal PC classes. As a quick approximation, estimating them at about 75% EPL should be fine. I.E. if their EPL should be an 8, treat them as if their EPL is about 6. EPL = Effective Party Level, btw. Use an Encounter Calculator (http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20encountercalculator.htm) if you need help with that.


What level should they start at?

If you want them to start out as 'ordinary people', definitely start at level 1, or maybe 2 for a bit more survivability. Read this excellent article (http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/d&d-calibrating.html) for reasons why.


Should they pick up PC classes later?

That's entirely up to you and your players. Really think about what you want from this campaign beforehand, and you should be able to figure it out.

Hope your campaign turns out well. Good gaming!

KillianHawkeye
2007-11-20, 09:18 AM
This sounds kinda interesting.

I'd say run it as a site-based adventure centered in and around the PCs' home village. Put in a lot of Elder Scrolls style quests, e.g. "Looks like there's rats in the inn's basement again!"

Maybe throw in a little bit of town-improvement sim by having the PCs gain enough influence from their good deeds for the town leaders to start relying on their opinions.

Dausuul
2007-11-20, 09:37 AM
I'm considering DMing a campaign where the characters are 'ordinary people' - NPC classes and low ability scores. I'm aware that this will make them much weaker for their level than the system was built for. What sorts of adjustments should I make? What level should they start at? Should they pick up PC classes later? Exactly how tough will they be? Can I fit in a fifth question? Oh, wait, I just did.

What's the goal of doing this?

The main thing to keep in mind is that if you're going to go this route, you should put much, much heavier emphasis on role-playing challenges. The NPC classes are not designed to be played in a standard D&D scenario; combat will be, frankly, tedious, as will pretty much any sort of dungeon crawl.

You could do this, but you should have your reasons for doing it very firmly in mind first, and be sure it really is the best way to achieve what you're trying to do.

AKA_Bait
2007-11-20, 09:46 AM
Another question you should ask yourself is 'how ordinary is ordinary?' Are you going for realism or just low powered? In the real world even a 1st level adept would be quite extrordinary since they can cast spells and get a familiar. In the D&D world obviously not so much.

I would advise not giving them levels in commoner, it would be just a little TOO easy to kill them off accidentally and they don't get enough skills to be viable. Let them be experts and warriors and the like.

There sounds like there could be some interesting ideas in here. Remember, to a village of NPC's even a level one or two PC is going to be a huge, big, scary threat. One evil bad guy wandering into town and scaring the bejeezus out of people could be an adventure unto itself, and an interesting change in perspective if they players have been playing a while and gotten used to the 'I'm a demigod' mindset.

Xefas
2007-11-20, 09:50 AM
My personal advice is to just not do it.

I, too, thought of a similar thing, and decided to run it among my regular players, and it was all great fun...for about 2 hours. After that, the novelty wore off, and the game was ASS.

At that level, all monsters have essentially the same mechanics to them. Sure, one might have 2 more dex than another, but that never actually makes an impression in combat. Its just the same thing over and over. Additionally, NPCs classes don't have anything fun to do with them. All they can do is attack roll/roll damage, attack roll/roll damage, etc.

Day to day life is terrifyingly boring. Resist the temptation, and do something fun.

Caledonian
2007-11-20, 09:55 AM
Agreed - commoners are just meant to be useless, and are so pathetically weak in all respects (not just combat) that they should be avoided at all costs.

You may want to alter the spellcasting and healing systems, neither of which are well-suited for this sort of thing.

Toliudar
2007-11-20, 10:26 AM
I briefly ran a PBP campaign in which we ran with "ordinary people stuck in an extraordinary situation" motif. Everyone started with a level of adept, expert or warrior (the NPC class, not the generic one), and something like a 24 or 26 point buy. It meant that the initial encounters were RP or obstacle based rather than monsters - freeing people from a burning building, working out a logistic and psychological problems - before I started them on the odd CR 1 encounter.

It was an interesting perspective, but we started the campaign with each player knowing what PC class they were likely to move into next, and by the time we'd spent the PBP equivalent of about 4-8 hours gaming, we were definitely ready to start being able to cast spells and kick ***.