(3.5 or Pf1e) Low level spells to empower weaponry? Wondrous Item 'weapons'?

[Gavinfoxx]

I'm interested in, as a gm, in writing up a civilization that doesn't have access to the feat Craft Magic Arms and Armor, and I'm wondering how much such a civilization can can mitigate that problem with Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Universal Item, and Inscribe Rune and Runecaster tricks, and Psionic Tattoo Mastery, with a focus on low level spells, powers, and prayers? Ideally with having wondrous items that cast spells as attachments to weapons, ranged or melee? I'm thinking this might be a use for spells like Spikes or Brambles, especially if activation can get down to a Swift Action or less. I'd ideally like some mix of spells that empower or summons weapons that lasts at least a minute a level, of spell level 2 or under, and usefully counts as magical for those things that require them, useful for a militia, and options for ranged weapons too. Any suggestions?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Well, have you considered the Create Device feat, from Ravenloft: Legacy of the Blood? You don't need Craft Magic Arms & Armor for that, but it still lets you craft (non)magic arms and armor.

[Gavinfoxx]

Those are mostly good at powering Wondrous Items, which you can make anyway. I read through that book, it wasn't as powerful as it's talked about here.

The question is, what specific low level spells are weaponlike, weapon empowering, or weapon creating?

[Saintheart]

Magic Weapon and Greater Magic Weapon? Permanent runes of these and you never need a +1 sword ever again.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The call weaponry power? If you can't make one, steal one from elsewhere and elsewhen.

Also, how about the Ancestral Relic feat? The kensai PrC? The psychic weapon master PrC? The pyrokineticist? The soulknife? The soulbound weapon psywar ACF?

[Gavinfoxx]

I'm looking for spells that improve items that any Tier 5 (ie, I'm NOT looking for character abilities!) with any arbitrary set of feats and skills can pick up and use as a magical weapon within a militia.

Ideally stuff that has more oomph than Magic Weapon, which Call Weaponry at ML 5 doesn't have.

IE, the answers should be SPELLS of spell level 2 or under, not things which are not spells/prayers/powers.

[Biggus]

I'm looking for spells that improve items that any Tier 5 (ie, I'm NOT looking for character abilities!) with any arbitrary set of feats and skills can pick up and use as a magical weapon within a militia.

Ideally stuff that has more oomph than Magic Weapon, which Call Weaponry at ML 5 doesn't have.

IE, the answers should be SPELLS of spell level 2 or under, not things which are not spells/prayers/powers.

Unfortunately there are lots of spells which enhance weapons, but most of them are level 3. At level 2 about all you have is Sonic Weapon (SpC, Bd2, S/W2) and Flame of Faith (SpC, P2) that do general damage improvements, although Bless Weapon (SRD, P1) is good against evil foes. Critical Strike (SpC, Ass1, Bd1, S/W1) and Wraithstrike (SpC, S/W2) normally only last for 1 round, but could work too.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A number of materials are considered magic for various purposes, or have other useful effects. For instance, riverine and holy water can affect some or all incorporeal creatures, and adamantine ignores most objects' hardness. Make "mundane" weapons out of them?

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?442820-Special-Materials-Index

[Dr_Dinosaur]

I suggest using Spheres of Power. With that system anyone can get a basic "spell" with a feat, including a Magic Weapon effect

[Gavinfoxx]

A number of materials are considered magic for various purposes, or have other useful effects. For instance, riverine and holy water can affect some or all incorporeal creatures, and adamantine ignores most objects' hardness. Make "mundane" weapons out of them?

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?442820-Special-Materials-Index


I suggest using Spheres of Power. With that system anyone can get a basic "spell" with a feat, including a Magic Weapon effect

For the first, I *HAVE* a ton of those and want to come up with a spell that can be put in a wondrous item that can be attached to whichever mineable or growable material the culture in question happens to have a surplus of, for extra effect. For the second, the idea is that I want items that any random Expert 2/Warrior 2 with mostly random feats can pick up and be compentent with!

So far, I have charms of magic weapon and charms of Brambles. I also found Decastave, which apparently lets strength apply?, which would work for groups that have access to Duskwood or similar, and Flame Dagger and Blade of Pain and Fear, though I would *prefer* something that lets strength apply to damage. Snilloc's Snowball would work okay as a weapon 'alternative', I suppose; it last's a while. Mace of Odo is okay, but again, doesn't let strength apply. Scimitar of Sand seems great, but it doesn't actually say what type of damage it deals. Flame Blade is decent, again no strength to damage.

I guess Mighty Wallop and Magic Weapon and Bless Weapon and Shillelagh applied to a club or something?? What else might work?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Just gonna say that acorn of far travel (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?546179-Un-Hallow-that-Stacks) is level 2, so...

[Kitsuneymg]

For the first, I *HAVE* a ton of those and want to come up with a spell that can be put in a wondrous item that can be attached to whichever mineable or growable material the culture in question happens to have a surplus of, for extra effect. For the second, the idea is that I want items that any random Expert 2/Warrior 2 with mostly random feats can pick up and be compentent with!

So far, I have charms of magic weapon and charms of Brambles. I also found Decastave, which apparently lets strength apply?, which would work for groups that have access to Duskwood or similar, and Flame Dagger and Blade of Pain and Fear, though I would *prefer* something that lets strength apply to damage. Snilloc's Snowball would work okay as a weapon 'alternative', I suppose; it last's a while. Mace of Odo is okay, but again, doesn't let strength apply. Scimitar of Sand seems great, but it doesn't actually say what type of damage it deals. Flame Blade is decent, again no strength to damage.

I guess Mighty Wallop and Magic Weapon and Bless Weapon and Shillelagh applied to a club or something?? What else might work?

So spheres of power uses different item creation feats. But they have the equivalent of “use activated magic items that take the shape of a weapon.”The canonical examples on http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/apparatuses]this ( [url) page[/url] are the bludgeoner’s rod, the thunder culverin, and the bandolier of grenades. The SoP rules for scaling these items make it easy to raise or lower the cost.

There’s also a variety of items in a variety of forms that grant access to/ knowledge of one or more destruction talents and a bonus to caster level in that sphere. Giving basic destruction sphere in a bracer would allow for at will standard action 1d6 bludgeoning attacks for anyone wearing the item, for instance.

Enhancement sphere effects can grant your basic +1s, but can also make weapons do energy damage. Fate can add luck bonuses, and war can add morale. War especially is good in single-use items for low level martial characters. +1-2 to hit or +2-3 to damage is great for a t5 grunt. There are permanent versions of many effects too, but they are significantly higher level.

The (non magic) alchemy sphere can create short lived coatings that add non magic energy damage. Or just create throwable items that do scaling damage in a small area.

I don’t know if this fits you “no magic weapons” idea super well, but it’s definitely has alternatives to “+1 flaming sonic long swords” even if it can accomplish that too.

[Gavinfoxx]

My game doesn't use spheres of power.

Please, I'm only asking about spells, powers, and prayers. Things which are cast or manifested.

Please.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

My game doesn't use spheres of power.

Please, I'm only asking about spells, powers, and prayers. Things which are cast or manifested.

Please.Well, if the acorn of far travel trick is combined with a weapon by placing the acorn in the hilt, the weapon itself should be subject to whatever buffs are placed under the tree via (un)hallow stuff (as detailed in the link above). So any higher level spell effect is basically permanent if the oak tree the acorn is from is growing on a plane that is timeless with regards to magic. And if it's not, the acorns and any buffs thereon should last for a minimum of 1 year. 2, if Extended.

[Gavinfoxx]

Well, if the acorn of far travel trick is combined with a weapon by placing the acorn in the hilt, the weapon itself should be subject to whatever buffs are placed under the tree via (un)hallow stuff (as detailed in the link above). So any higher level spell effect is basically permanent if the oak tree the acorn is from is growing on a plane that is timeless with regards to magic. And if it's not, the acorns and any buffs thereon should last for a minimum of 1 year. 2, if Extended.

Please presume these civilizations don't have anyone with a caster class over level 4, unless they are a class that gets 2nd level spells at level 5 or something. Then those people can be level 5.

There's a reason I've been saying 'spell level 2 or under'. PLEASE, please try and answer the question I actually asked?

[Kitsuneymg]

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?265328-A-complete-list-of-all-3-5-spells

There’s a thread about repos of 3.5 spells. Apparently none are comprehensive.

https://www.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx There’s the official list of spells for PF. With search and filter features.

I suggest looking for the word “weapon”.

[aglondier]

Have gloves that grant the wearer Weapon Focus/Specialisation with any weapon they are weilding.

[Biggus]

For the first, I *HAVE* a ton of those and want to come up with a spell that can be put in a wondrous item that can be attached to whichever mineable or growable material the culture in question happens to have a surplus of, for extra effect. For the second, the idea is that I want items that any random Expert 2/Warrior 2 with mostly random feats can pick up and be compentent with!

So far, I have charms of magic weapon and charms of Brambles. I also found Decastave, which apparently lets strength apply?, which would work for groups that have access to Duskwood or similar, and Flame Dagger and Blade of Pain and Fear, though I would *prefer* something that lets strength apply to damage. Snilloc's Snowball would work okay as a weapon 'alternative', I suppose; it last's a while. Mace of Odo is okay, but again, doesn't let strength apply. Scimitar of Sand seems great, but it doesn't actually say what type of damage it deals. Flame Blade is decent, again no strength to damage.

I guess Mighty Wallop and Magic Weapon and Bless Weapon and Shillelagh applied to a club or something?? What else might work?

Did you not see my post or were those spells not suitable for some reason?

[Gavinfoxx]

I'm encouraging others to offer suggestions to the question I actually asked as well, Biggus.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Psionic minor creation (shaper 1) can make weapons from plant matter, which you might not think you need, but A.) it also creates plant-based poisons to coat weapons out of thin air (including drow sleep poison, which is made from fungi), B.) it can make weapons and ammo from unusual plant materials that may not be available otherwise, such as amber, ironwood, or livewood, and C.) you can craft weapons, armor, and shields to suit any given situation, such as nets and reach/ranged weapons. Plus, you're not screwed if your steel-wielding allies get hit by surprise rust monsters. And if you have the Linked Power feat and Link PMC to, say, grip of iron, you can craft stuff as an immediate action by manifesting immediately prior to your turn, rather than having to concentrate for a full minute.

[Gavinfoxx]

Psionic minor creation (shaper 1)...

Again, presume that the object in question is going to be handed to an expert 2/warrior 2 with toughness for all their feats. What spells would the object be able to, itself, cast?

Or keep ignoring me, I guess.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Again, presume that the object in question is going to be handed to an expert 2/warrior 2 with toughness for all their feats. What spells would the object be able to, itself, cast?

Or keep ignoring me, I guess.What, you don't think being able to create gallons of poison to coat the weapon in or additional weapons, including tons of ammo, is good enough? Or the ability to make walls or armor or shields or other tools at will?

Just have it cast magic weapon on itself and be done with it, then.

[Gavinfoxx]

What, you don't think being able to create gallons of poison to coat the weapon in or additional weapons, including tons of ammo, is good enough? Or the ability to make walls or armor or shields or other tools at will?

Just have it cast magic weapon on itself and be done with it, then.

The problem with those is that it requires someone to cast it. The one minute casting time, the fact that it requires a craft check, the fact that the objects are nonmagical... also the fact that poison requires specialized feats to apply to weapons. I'm looking for small charms to place onto a weapon, where you do a standard action activation, where the spell makes the weapon better, or a small device where you press a button or say a command word as a standard action or less and it produces a weapon that's significantly better than a mundane weapon! And YES, Magic Weapon, and other spells like it are exactly what I am asking about! What are some other pathfinder and 3.5e spells under spell level 2 that are conceptually similar to magic weapon?

[aglondier]

Pathfinder has the spell Ail, which is functionally identical to Magic Weapon, except that instead of a +1 to hit and damage, it inflicts the target with the Flare cantrip with every hit.

[sreservoir]

How comfortable are you with the reading that unguent of timelessness/shrink item/quintessence/temporal stasis effect extend/suspend the durations of spell effects? Setting aside some of its ... high-power combo extender interactions†, the salient use here is that you could take a weapon made of "any matter that was once alive" and stretch a 3min casting of magic weapon (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicWeapon.htm)/bless weapon (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blessWeapon.htm)/burning sword (SpC 41)/hurl (SpC 117)/sonic weapon (195) out to ~18 hours, a 3 round brambles/checkmate's light (SpC 46)/flame of faith (96)/infernal wound (122) to ~2 hours, a 30min accuracy (CAr 96) to a week, which is a huge win logistics-wise but also makes your legions hilariously vulnerable to area dispel. I like it.

Also, artificers, how do those fit into your setting? This might depend on the nature of your restriction against CMAA—5th-level artificers get CMAA as a bonus feat, but if you're willing to ignore that or if people just generally don't hit 5th level that can be fine. Anyway, there are a couple of infusions not shared by other lists that affect weapons, like the weapon augmentation line and lucky blade (MoE 98) to grant a single reroll; you might be able to finagle them onto other casters through spell list expansion tricks since "function just like spells and follow all the rules for spells", though you kind of need one of the pick a single spell from any list abilities (e.g. recaster, wyrm wizard, read-the-book-and-ignore-the-FAQ Extra Spell). There's also the funky stipulation that artificers imbue infusions into items that then affect their wearer, which can also feed into time dilation tricks, though that might be a bit too generic to feel like a weapon thing.

[FauxKnee]

I've used "the boomstick," a homebrewed wondrous item of launch bolt (Spell Compendium), in some of my games. It's not exactly cheap by comparison to nonmagical weaponry, but it's a bargain compared to traditional magic weapons (2300+ gp.)

As a standard action at will, the bearer can make a ranged attack (not touch) with an increment of 80 feet. On a hit, it deals 6d6 damage. (Functions as a light crossbow for rules interactions; see spell description.) This item has a market price of 1,060gp = 1800 gp (at-will command word wondrous item) * .5 (spell level 0) * 1 (caster level) + 100 (unlimited use material component multiplier) * 1.6 gp (material component cost, which is the price of a colossal crossbow bolt)

You may not use dragon magazine content in your games, in which case feel free to disregard the following. One use per day of a war launch bolt (using the war spell template from dragon 309) adds 564 gp to the price and gives a unit of troops armed with such devices a devastating volley attack against opposing armies. (See the magazine; it's most useful defensively due to the familiarity requirement.) Priced at 564 gp = 1.5 (secondary ability) * .2 (one charge per day) * (1800 gp (command word) * 1 (spell level) * 1 (caster level) + 50 (limited use material component) * 1.6 gp (component))

[Gavinfoxx]

I definitely allow Dragon Magazine, but after looking at that, I think allowing spell templates is a bad idea in general!

[rel]

flame blade - druid 2 - gives you a light saber
align weapon - cleric 2 - and does what it says
shield bearer - wiz 1 - animates your shield
burning sword - wiz 2 - gives your weapon flaming burst
sonic weapon - wiz 2 adds sonic damage to your weapon
bristle - wiz 2 - enchants your armour with spikes
shield of faith - wiz 1 - deflection bonus to AC

And then you have potions, scrolls, alchemical items and the like.
Remember that a civilisation (unlike an adventuring party) don't really care about CR appropriate challenges and doing as much damage as they are supposed to.
All they need to do is be able to breach DR / immunity and actually hurt whatever they are fighting.

After which a surprising number of problems can be solved by simply having more warm bodies to throw at the problem.

The way I see it, most weapons in a low magic setting are totally mundane anyway. Specialty tools to deal with swarms, DR, incorporeals or whatever are deployed as needed and maybe the captain of the guard has a fancy ring or amulet that can cast flame blade or decastave once a day but most of the fighting is just disciplined, massed attacks from lots of low level doods with sticks. With maybe a bard or crusader backing them up.

[Firkraag]

Write custom spells to give weapons the desired qualities?

Spell research is expensive, but if it was needed, somebody could've put effort to cash in on the invention.

Use already suggested spells as benchmarks for bad and good spells (I really think, that worse spells should a part of the game world as cheaper rewards and spell research should be encouraged for creative players).

[Seward]

The easiest way to counter tech difference is arcane or divine casters with greater magic weapon spells (or baby casters with magic weapon spells). A bone club is now a +3 bone club, etc, with hardness etc comparable to higher tech weapons. I had a a troglodyte society in one campaign who had a secret vampire cleric running things who passed out GMW and Magic Vestment wands to his minions if they went on the warpath. Had chain spell existed at the time I ran this game, I might have gone with that as a cheaper alternative for GMW, routinely buffing the weapons of favored servants and bodyguards. If they favor arcane casting (as with kobolds) mage armor is as good as most primitive armor, or even high tech armor if you don't want to restrict movement.

In Pathfinder, obsidian is an especially good material to enchant either with spells or permanent enchantments, as its "fragile" quality goes away and it remains sharp, light, immune to rust, etc. I had a dwarf lumberjack-druid who liked gems and loved his +1 obsidian stone armor.

Don't overlook magic stone. 1 casting gives 3 magic javelins with quickdraw, basically, that last 30 minutes and doesn't need more than a L1 caster for max effect and whose range can be enhanced with a sling at cost of loading time.

Spells do a good job of substituting the basic properties of magic weapons, so if craft scrolls or wands exists, or a patron spellcaster willing to buff minions you're good to go. Mass battlefield effects like bardsong are of course also always welcome.

[ShurikVch]

Scimitar of Sand seems great, but it doesn't actually say what type of damage it deals.
It deals untyped damage

Spells to create/summon weapons:
Bo of Water (Oriental Adventures; Water Shugenja 2) 1 minute/level; 1d8+(CL/2); overcomes DR/magic; "Attacks with the bo of water are regular melee attacks."
Body Blades (Spell Compendium; Cleric 2) 1 minute/level; 1d6+CL piercing damage
Boneblade (Book of Vile Darkness; Blackguard 2, Cleric 3) 10 minutes/level; +1 on attack and damage for every 5 CL (min +1); +1d6 damage vs living creatures; +1d6 vs Good-aligned
Lightning Blade (Complete Arcane; Wu Jen 2) 1 minute or until discharged; 1d6 electricity damage per CL; no Str to damage
Sunmace (Dragon #346; Cleric/Druid 2) 1 round/level; 1d8 fire damage (+1 for every 3 CL) and dazzling for 1 round; vs Undead - 2d6 fire damage and blinded for 1 round (-2 on save if sunlight-sensitive); Sunmace flying and fight on its own (with your BAB + your Wis bonus; it may allow multiple attacks in a round)
Tetsubo of Earth (Oriental Adventures; Earth Shugenja 2) 1 minute/level; 1d10+(CL/2); overcomes DR/magic; "Attacks with the tetsubo of earth are regular melee attacks."
Whip (Oriental Adventures; Wu Jen 2) 1 round/level; fear effect vs Animals
Yari of Air (Oriental Adventures; Air Shugenja 2) 1 minute/level; 1d8+(CL/2); overcomes DR/magic; "Attacks with the yari of air are regular melee attacks."
Spells to enhance weapons
Accuracy (Complete Arcane)
Animate Weapon (Complete Mage)
Arrow Mind (Spell Compendium)
Blackrot (Complete Mage)
Blade of Blood (Player's Handbook II)
Bladebane (Unapproachable East)
Blades of Fire (Spell Compendium)
Bladeweave (Spell Compendium)
Bloodletting (Complete Mage)
Checkmate's Light (Spell Compendium)
Corrupt Weapon (Dungeon Master's Guide)
Deafening Clang (Spell Compendium)
Distort Weapon (Book of Vile Darkness)
Energy Surge, Lesser (Player's Handbook II)
Enhance Weapons (Dragon #309) - as Magic Weapon, but up to 25 weapons at once
Enlarge Weapon (Complete Scoundrel)
Exacting Shot (Spell Compendium)
Fortify Metal or Stone (Secrets of Sarlona)
Frost Weapon (Frostburn)
Furnace Within (Races of Eberron)
Grace (Spell Compendium)
Guided Shot (Spell Compendium)
Hawkeye (Spell Compendium)
Honorable Weapon (Dragon #318)
Keen Edge
Profane Weapon (Dragon #312)
Returning Weapon (Races of the Wild)
Saint Cuthbert's Cudgel (Dragon #358)
Stretch Weapon (Player's Handbook II)
Tune of the Dancing Weapon (Dragon #335)
Weapon Bless (Oriental Adventures)

Natural weapons-
Create/Summon:
Beast Claws (Spell Compendium)
Bite of the Wererat (Spell Compendium)
Burrow (Underdark)
Claws of the Bear (Spell Compendium)
Claws of the Beast (Player's Guide to Faerûn)
Claws of Darkness (Spell Compendium)
Cutting Hand (Spell Compendium)
Ghostly Tail (Races of the Dragon)
Jaws of the Moray (Stormwrack)
Stone Fist (Races of Stone)
Enhance:
Jagged Tooth (Spell Compendium)
Magic Fang
Metal Fang (Complete Champion)
Razorfangs (Spell Compendium)
Tiger's Tooth (Spell Compendium)

Breath weapons:
Palarandusk's Fire Breath (City of Splendors: Waterdeep) only one use, but can be delayed up to a hour

Also, Produce Flame

[Gavinfoxx]

<snip>

HOLY HECK! Thank you, that's exactly what I needed! Awesome!

[Coidzor]

The Pathfinder spell Stone Discus (https://www.aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Stone%20Discus) is basically a form of weapon already, being basically Scorching Ray but it chucks a great big wad of stone at foes instead of rays of fire.

The stone it creates by virtue of being an Instantaneous Conjuration [Creation] spell will bypass magic, silver, cold iron, and adamantine DR so long as you bump the CL up high enough. So it can be harvested, repurposed into stone weaponry, especially a lot of stone tips for arrows and crossbow bolts or stone bullets for slings, and then stockpiled until needed.

You could probably collect a whole bunch of it and Stone Shape it together into one mass to make ammunition for siege weapons.