Epic level spellcasting question and Epic build help

[flurryofDQ]

1) epic PrCs like the cosmic descryer include lines in the table that say "+1 level of existing class" for spells/day. However, they require epic feats which only epic characters can take. I thought epic level characters didn't get more spells/day. So....what gives?

2) How can I go epic sublime chord/fochlucan lyrist? What classes should I take levels in past 20?

I'm about 19 months into my first 3.5 campaign. I'm currently at level 15 of my build below, and DM has told us we will go epic. It's my first epic campaign.

Build: bard 8, sublime chord 1, 3.0 virtuoso 1, divine crusader 1 (travel), fochlucan lyrist 9. I will have limited 9th level divine and 9th level arcane casting. I used bloodline and item cheese for early entry.

Other PCs are a druid, artificer, paladin, barbarian, and archer/beastmaster type.

At level 21, I could finish fochlucan lyrist 10, but it would give me....nothing, and then there doesnt seem to be a fochulcan lyrist 11, so....I don't know what to do. I cant go epic bard, but I guess I _could_ continue to take bard levels. It would give me some low level spells but meh.

That seems to leave epic prestige classes. The worldwalker flavor is really cool and I could use the "planar infusions" for 2 bonus feats (any bonus feat!) and a +6 ability score. Unfortunately the bonus feats at level 2, 5, and 8 are somewhat useless to my character, aside from extra magic item slot.

Cosmic Descryer seems cool.

Any other suggestions? Is there an epic fochlucan lyrist out there that I don't know of? What could I do to progress this character?

[Khedrac]

1) epic PrCs like the cosmic descryer include lines in the table that say "+1 level of existing class" for spells/day. However, they require epic feats which only epic characters can take. I thought epic level characters didn't get more spells/day. So....what gives?
The casting classes do not give spells after level 20, but an epic character may have taken dips into other classes and only have the spells/day of a sub-20 caster. This enables them to continue increasing up to the spells of a 20th level caster.
Also caster level continues increasing and remains important.

[SimonMoon6]

2) How can I go epic sublime chord/fochlucan lyrist? What classes should I take levels in past 20?

Is there an epic fochlucan lyrist out there that I don't know of?

IIRC, the epic level handbook suggests that prestige classes can be extended into epic levels by following the usual progression, but no new abilities are gained. This would make it incredibly easy to extend the F.L. class, since it doesn't gain new abilities anyway, so it would just continue with "+1 to arcane and divine spell-casting" while continuing to add its level to all the bard abilities. But, you'd have to ask the DM to allow that.

Sublime Chord would not have nearly as good of an epic progression, nor would the non-epic levels of the class help you much.

If you can't go epic F.L., then determine your priorities: spellcasting or bard stuff. If it's spellcasting, then consider something like Mystic Theurge (or the other theurge classes). If it's bard stuff, then... any other class that improves bard stuff (including bard itself, I guess).

[Biggus]

IIRC, the epic level handbook suggests that prestige classes can be extended into epic levels by following the usual progression, but no new abilities are gained. This would make it incredibly easy to extend the F.L. class, since it doesn't gain new abilities anyway, so it would just continue with "+1 to arcane and divine spell-casting" while continuing to add its level to all the bard abilities. But, you'd have to ask the DM to allow that.


The epic mystic theurge only gives new caster levels to each class on alternate levels, despite having no other class features except a very low (1/6 levels) bonus epic feat rate, which suggests FL would be no better than that since it progresses bardic music as well.

I'd say what's best do next depends on what you use your spells for. If caster level is important for many of them, the tenth level of FL followed by Mystic Theurge seems the way to go. If not, Cosmic Descryer is a good choice, most epic prestige classes are pretty disappointing but that one's decent. There's a full list here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?600152

@OP: How did you manage to swing Speak Language (Druidic)?

[flurryofDQ]

Wow! Thank you everyone!

I understand the bit about increasing caster level. Thanks! Suddenly finishing out FL seems like a good idea, and then maybe a PrC that adds domains. Even bard seems decent, or an initiator class. At level 22, I'd be a Warblade 1 with initiator level 14 (1 +3 bloodline + half non initiator[10]), and then Jade Phoenix would advance my IL and casting, so by level 24 I'd have 9th level maneuvers and Arcane CL 24, but Divine CL 13.

[flurryofDQ]

@OP: How did you manage to swing Speak Language (Druidic)?

DM waived it, but Druidic played a large role int he campaign, and my guy has 13 languages, so I was going to make the argument that I would use tongues almost every day + evesdropping.

[Jervis]

Wow! Thank you everyone!

I understand the bit about increasing caster level. Thanks! Suddenly finishing out FL seems like a good idea, and then maybe a PrC that adds domains. Even bard seems decent, or an initiator class. At level 22, I'd be a Warblade 1 with initiator level 14 (1 +3 bloodline + half non initiator[10]), and then Jade Phoenix would advance my IL and casting, so by level 24 I'd have 9th level maneuvers and Arcane CL 24, but Divine CL 13.

May I suggest Sovereign Speaker from ECS? Gives 8 domains. Granted it’s RP requirements need to to worship a pantheon. For a adaptation I recommend changing it to give domains for your deity of choice.

[Biggus]

Wow! Thank you everyone!

I understand the bit about increasing caster level. Thanks! Suddenly finishing out FL seems like a good idea, and then maybe a PrC that adds domains. Even bard seems decent, or an initiator class. At level 22, I'd be a Warblade 1 with initiator level 14 (1 +3 bloodline + half non initiator[10]), and then Jade Phoenix would advance my IL and casting, so by level 24 I'd have 9th level maneuvers and Arcane CL 24, but Divine CL 13.

The Practised Spellcaster feat (CD/CArc) can help if one of your caster levels is lagging behind.

How come your divine caster level would be 13? I'm only seeing 1 from Divine Crusader and 10 from FL.

What bloodline do you have btw?