Two Weapon Fighting Hexblade

[Matt_Aries]

Hello all, before I begin here, allow me a moment to state I am a novice in 5e and more of a lurker here then a poster, so thank you in advance for any words of wisdom.

I am looking to update a build and change things around from the typical max/min polearm master, great weapon fighter character, to a more roleplay two weapon fighting Tiefling Hexblade. I am not sure what the best way to go about it as I do not have access to all 5e content so many options may be unaware to me, so, I am seeking your assistance please.

What are the feats I should be picking to make sure two weapon fighting is decent to well to strike and do damage in combat? Currently Dual Wielder and War Caster. Am I missing anything?
Am I correct in thinking Weapon Master is pointless due to the Hexblade inherent bonuses of stacking Charisma on damage instead of Dexterity?
I am also getting conflicting information on Shadow Blade, Green Flame Blade, Booming Blade. Would this be a viable option as the alternate weapon?

This character will be a Tiefling Hexblade but will played as Mark Hamill Joker dressed in the finest of cheap fabrics as if a rogue trying to be an aristocrat. He is going to be antagonistic and fight as a last option. Using darkness, portals and similar, it will fight when it has the upper hand. All bark no bite in appearance to the world around him.

The thought is when he has to fight, do the typical Hex, Curse, Summon and so forth but lure them into Darkness (I will have Devil's Sight) or portal to get advantage, or not allow the party to see him fight.

STRENGTH 8
DEXTERITY 14
CONSTITUTION 15
INTELLIGENCE 8
WISDOM 10
CHARISMA 15/17

[Dualight]

Two-weapon fighting is not a particularly solid idea on a Hexblade, since your bonus action is fairly crowded to begin with, considering hex and the Hexblade's curse. I haven't played a Hexblade myself, but i know that your most powerful setup requires several turns of bonus actions before you can even consider using that second weapon to attack.
Weapon Master is entirely useless to you, since Hexblades have proficiency with all simple and martial weapons, which encompass all weapons Weapon Master can grant proficiency in.
As for the shadow blade and SCAG cantrips, due to errata, the RAW is that you cannot use them in combination, but talking your DM into letting you use them together should be easy.
Also, you can only use the Hex Warrior effect of CHA instead of STR or DEX on only 1 weapon at a time.

Overall, I suggest going for sword-and-board style with a shield and a one-handed weapon instead of either the two-weapon approach or the pole-arm, as Hex Warrior demands a single one-handed weapon. Of course, this is purely from an optimisation perspective. If you think that you will have more fun with two weapons, go for it. Just remember to pump DEX if you do, all weapons with higher damage dice than the rapier are two-handed or versatile(the lance is technically an exception, but really unwieldy if you are not mounted more often than not). Although you are already going for a DEX build, it would seem.

Shadow blade is rather powerful, although the Hexblade is probably one of the least-suitable wielders, once you exclude those casters that are built in a way that does not allow them to survive even a single round in melee. You can't get the maximum damage out of it, since you will never be able to cast it with a 7th+ level slot, although that matters little. The bigger problem is that the spell is incompatible with Hex Warrior, as the spell, if active at the time you can apply Hex Warrior to it to use your CHA, the spell, which lasts only 1 minute and eats concentration(so no good alongside hex) is ccertain to be down by the time you enter combat.
For the combat style you suggest, two-weapon fighting is even worse, as spells like misty step (which is worth the Fey-Touched feat, alongside another spell known(precious to warlocks) and +1 CHA) also use your bonus action, as would commanding some summons.

Overall, while it is probably an interesting idea, it is mechannically rather unsound to go for two-weapon fighting on a Hexblade.
If you are dead-set on making it work, however, taking the Fighting Initiate feat or a level in fighter for the 'Two-weapon Fighting' Fighting Style is probably worth it. You have the DEX for a fighter multi-class, anyway.

[Kane0]

Hello all, before I begin here, allow me a moment to state I am a novice in 5e and more of a lurker here then a poster, so thank you in advance for any words of wisdom.

I am looking to update a build and change things around from the typical max/min polearm master, great weapon fighter character, to a more roleplay two weapon fighting Tiefling Hexblade. I am not sure what the best way to go about it as I do not have access to all 5e content so many options may be unaware to me, so, I am seeking your assistance please.

What are the feats I should be picking to make sure two weapon fighting is decent to well to strike and do damage in combat? Currently Dual Wielder and War Caster. Am I missing anything?
Am I correct in thinking Weapon Master is pointless due to the Hexblade inherent bonuses of stacking Charisma on damage instead of Dexterity?
I am also getting conflicting information on Shadow Blade, Green Flame Blade, Booming Blade. Would this be a viable option as the alternate weapon?


Two words: Bonus Action.
TWF requires your BA. Hex also uses your BA. Hexblade curse as well. Your Bonus Action will be used up pretty often even before you take into account spells and invocations.

Second to that, your pact weapon will be one of your two. You won't be able to use Charisma to attack/damage with both, nor will you be able to create/bond both with Pact of the Blade. Eldritch Smite, Improved Pact Weapon and Lifedrinker won't work with both either because they all work with your Pact weapon only.

Now you may have a nice DM that might give you some custom magic weapons that function as a pair for Pact Weapon and even attunement which will ease a lot of your burden, but you still won't be able to hex/curse and TWF during the same turn. Maybe a nice DM would also upgrade the Dual Wielder feat to free up your Bonus Action.

[Rukelnikov]

snip

Also, you can only use the Hex Warrior effect of CHA instead of STR or DEX on only 1 weapon at a time.

snip

This is the case, but not really.


he influence of your patron also allows you to mystically channel your will through a particular weapon. Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch one weapon that you are proficient with and that lacks the two-handed property. When you attack with that weapon, you can use your Charisma modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, for the attack and damage rolls. This benefit lasts until you finish a long rest. If you later gain the Pact of the Blade feature, this benefit extends to every pact weapon you conjure with that feature, no matter the weapon's type.

So, you can have your Pact weapon use Cha to att and damage, and the weapon you can bond from Hex Warrior to also use CHA to att and damage, however, with this second weapon you can't for instance use Eldritch Smite, or Lifedrinker since its not your pact weapon.

For a dual weilding Hexblade you would wield both your bonded weapons.

As it was pointed out though, your bonus action is extremely cramped by now, so a couple deviations from more traditional Hexblades may be in order. A couple general ideas for the build:

We kinda want Warcaster, but its not necessary to take it at low levels. Our Pact weapon acts as a focus so we are only limited when wanting to cast spells with S component and no M component. However, for all the action and bonus action cast spells we can stow our off hand and cast the spell, we are not gonna be making an off hand attack that turn. So the relevant list boils down to: Shield, Counterspell and maybe Hellish Rebuke if we really wanna use that spell.

Shield and Counterspell are pretty powerful spells, but unless we MC we don't have that many slots, and can't make very good use of those spells, Counterspell, maybe, Shield definitely not. So IMO its a feat to take just before MCing or after having done so.

As with most Warlocks, taking a couple levels in another spellcasting class gives you an astounding amount of versatility, both because of more spells known, but moreso because you get a couple low level slots. For hexblade in particular low level slots means more Shields.

So I'd go either Sorc 2 for Font of Magic, so you can use all your sorc spells for shield, and if you get to a short rest with a Pact Slot remaning you melt it for more Shields. Or in this case though, maybe Swords Bard to get the combat style (warlock levels 18 and 20 are essentially dead anyway, so MCing "only costs a feat")

The question becomes, how important is the combat style? And the feat?

Consider this, the feat basically grants +1 damage to our attacks (+0.05 because of bigger crit dice), from a pure damage standpoint, that's worse than getting +2 Cha, since thats almost the same increase in damage, along with a +1 attack bonus. But its also inferior to the combat style, the feat gives +2.1 routine damage up to level 4, and +3.15 from level 5 onwards (3.3 with curse on). The combat style gives us at least +3 from the moment we get it, up to potentially +5 once we max our attack attribute. However, it still is, by definition, half the bonus to damage that Lifedrinker gives.

My point with all this is not to say that those options are useless, but that in the long run, like at lvl 12, they don't make for the bulk of the damage, in fact, against a cursed enemy, the percentage increase from 2 shortswords without style vs 2 longswords with style is only 20%, its a noticeable increase, but its costing 1 feat and a fighting style (which would still cost a level or another feat). So I'd consider those options after having maxxed Cha.

Vhuman(TWF @1, Combat Style @4, +2 CHA, +2 CHA)
Half Drow(Elven Accuracy @4, +2 CHA @8, Res(Con) @12)

The Half Drow actually has better white room DPR against AC 21 and above if we have advantage, and we should have advatange since we have a myriad ways of generating it for ourselves, Shadow of Moil (which is also a good defensive spell), Darkness + Devil Sight, Eldritch Smite the enemy so they are prone (it doesn't allow a save)

My recommendation, if starting at 12,

Half Drow Hexblade8/Swords4 8/14/16/8/12/20 (Elven Accuracy @4, +2 CHA @8, Warcaster @Bard4)
IPW, Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite, +1 invo

Then Swords 5 for the inspiration recovery on Short rest

Then Hexblade to 12 (you can get TWF at this point, though I think Res(Con) is much better)

[Witty Username]

Uh, hex warrior works with any one handed melee weapon and any pact weapon.

TWF with light weapons should work fine with hex warrior. Good, I'm not sure but it definitely can be done.

[J-H]

A 5th level Spirit Shroud (online at level 9) gives +2d8 damage to all of your melee attacks... but it takes a turn to set up.
At level 12, with lifedrinker (cha to damage) and a pact blade + summoned blade, assuming 1d6 shortswords and Hexblade's Curse:
Main attack 1d6 + 10 cha + 2d8 spirit shroud + 4 = 26 average damage x 2 = 52 damage
Off hand, with Two Weapon fighting style (via a feat or MC) should be the same -5 (because Lifedrinker is for the summoned pact blade only) for another 21
= 73 average DPR if all hit.

That's actually really good, as long as you're not fighting a ton of mooks, since Hexblade's Curse wears off and that's worth (at this level) 12 points or about 1/6th of the total DPR.

[Jerrykhor]

I'm afraid you'll be very disappointed with the actual play. Be wary game plans that require many rounds of setup, by the time you got going, the fight is most likely over.

There's just too many things fighting for your Bonus Action, that you will never get to use the TWF offhand attack. IMO its just bad design. That's on top of the fact that Dual Wielder is very bad. Weapon Master is useless.

From the spells that you listed, Shadow Blade... Thats another bonus action required. Also, you can't use CHA to attack with it. GFB/BB doesn't work with TWF, because you need to take the Attack action for that, and GFB is a cantrip that requires you to take the Cast a Spell action.

[Rukelnikov]

I'm afraid you'll be very disappointed with the actual play. Be wary game plans that require many rounds of setup, by the time you got going, the fight is most likely over.

There's just too many things fighting for your Bonus Action, that you will never get to use the TWF offhand attack. IMO its just bad design. That's on top of the fact that Dual Wielder is very bad. Weapon Master is useless.

From the spells that you listed, Shadow Blade... Thats another bonus action required. Also, you can't use CHA to attack with it. GFB/BB doesn't work with TWF, because you need to take the Attack action for that, and GFB is a cantrip that requires you to take the Cast a Spell action.

There's a workaround for that. Bladesinger can use GFB and TWF in the same round, the problem would be you either need to forego Bladesong, or roll very good stats because you'd need 3 good attributtes to have good AC, and it would only be viable starting at a high level, since you'd need to invest 6 in bladesinger to be able to do that.