Replacement for Find Traps

[sandmote]

I don't think it'll be contentious to say that the 5e Find Traps spell is too worthless for anyone to bother preparing or spending a spell slot on, and that it likely wouldn't see play even if it could be cast as a ritual. As it stands to spell is heavily DM dependent, with its usefulness (if any) being entirely dependent on the interpretation of the phrase "you do learn the general nature of the danger posed by a trap you sense." Most often the spell serves only to tell you if anything built for the purpose of being a trap is present, something you can simply assume under most conditions and often doesn't include things intended as traps by the DM.

So here is my attempt at a replacement spell that I am hoping is at least functional for its intended purpose. Probably the wonkiest category below are "Living," traps, which I intended to identify gargoyles, animated weapons, and other creatures that are difficult to identify by plain sight. For practical purposes, I would exclude creatures that are moving at the time spell is cast (including heartbeats and breathing as movement).

Detect Traps
2nd-level divination (ritual)

Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 120 ft.
Components: V, S
Duration: 10 minutes.
Taking a moment to read your surroundings, you learn the number and types of unstable physical and magical hazards within range. The spell can penetrate barriers, but 3 feet of wood or dirt, 2 feet of rock, 2 inches of any metal other than lead, or a thin sheet of lead blocks you. This spell also fails to identify anything inside the area of a private sanctum spell. If the spell does not identify any traps at the time you cast it, it immediately informs you of the next type of trap you walk within 30 feet of. Once you learn the type of the traps the spell informs you are there, the spell ends.

Some typical hazard types and their effects follow. You might encounter a trap of a type other than is listed here. If you do so, the GM determines how the target behaves. If a trap would fall into multiple categories, the GM chooses whichever best describes the trap.

Collapsing. Hazards of this type are solid and connect two portions of physical material that can bear up to your weight, but would themselves collapse if trod on. A pit trap, or weak section of flooring would both count as this type of trap, as would an area of quicksand.

Enchanted. Magical traps and alarms, including an area affected by the alarm spell or a glyph of warding. You cannot distinguish between different magical effects with this spell.

Living. Living traps include sessile creatures, which are alive but do not appear to be capable of movement at the time the spell is cast. This category of hazard includes unmoving creatures that you would otherwise be unable to distinguish from inanimate objects.

Mechanical. You learn the number of mechanical objects within range, including gears, axles, and rope or string. Loose objects, such as a single gear lying on the ground, do not count as traps for the purpose of this spell, but an unmoving piece of clockwork or other machinery may appear as a trap for the purposes of this spell. Piles of unstable material can also qualify as a single mechanical trap.

This spell merely reveals that a trap is present. You don't learn the location of each trap, merely the general nature of the danger posed by a trap you sense.

(Cleric, Druid, Ranger)

[GalacticAxekick]

While I appreciate the greater breadth of traps that this version of the spell detects, and the greater specificity of the information it grants the player, I don't think I would cast this version much at all.

If I have no clue whether or not an area is trapped, I could benefit from this spell! But that circumstance is so common, I'd be casting this spell every 240 steps through the dungeon.

If I have a hunch that the area is trapped, I probably don't need this spell. All it will do is tell me "yes, this area is trapped in roughly this way", which I likely could've determined on my own.

The alterative I introduced at my table is the following cantrip, based on Spider-Man's Spider-Sense:

Tingle
Divination cantrip

Casting Time: Bonus action
Range: 30 feet
Components: V, S
Duration: 1 minute
You awaken a subtle sixth sense, which warns you of danger.

If a hostile creature, a trap, or another hazard (such as a natural weakness in the floor, an unstable ceiling, or a hidden sinkhole) can be found anywhere within range, and if you are not already aware of this danger, a tingle runs up your spine, and this spell ends.

This spell merely reveals that danger is present. You don’t learn the location or the number of the dangerous forces: only that danger is nearby.

(Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard)

The key here is that you can cast this long before you enter the trapped area, and the spell will alert you once you enter. There's zero risk of casting this spell in an area with no traps and wasting it.

This spell is also handy because if you are moving, it implicitly suggests that the hazard is exactly 30 feet ahead of you in the direction that you are moving. That is the only way that a motionless danger could have entered the spell's area, after all.

I think a similar structure would make your spell truly worthwhile.

[Eurus]

For a second level spell, I think learning the location of the trap's trigger wouldn't be that unreasonable. It's unlikely to replace having an actual trapfinder, but works in a pinch if you don't have one.

[Breccia]

That "living" section is really interesting. I'm torn between "living creatures aren't traps and the spell shouldn't work on them" and "but that sounds like a really useful ability to have in some way, shape, or form". After all, a gargoyle or piercer aren't technically invisible...

[sandmote]

General Question.
Would the spell work better if it were available as a ritual? That could let the party spend time instead of spell slots, making the spell more useful at dungeon entrances and similarly safe areas without letting high level casters spam it to learn the locations of the traps.


While I appreciate the greater breadth of traps that this version of the spell detects, and the greater specificity of the information it grants the player, I don't think I would cast this version much at all.

If I have no clue whether or not an area is trapped, I could benefit from this spell! But that circumstance is so common, I'd be casting this spell every 240 steps through the dungeon.

If I have a hunch that the area is trapped, I probably don't need this spell. All it will do is tell me "yes, this area is trapped in roughly this way", which I likely could've determined on my own. Would the ritual tag reduce the cost enough to make the spell reasonable? The spell does already tell you the number of traps, which you might have trouble learning otherwise, especially if some are better hidden than others.


The key here is that you can cast this long before you enter the trapped area, and the spell will alert you once you enter. There's zero risk of casting this spell in an area with no traps and wasting it.

This spell is also handy because if you are moving, it implicitly suggests that the hazard is exactly 30 feet ahead of you in the direction that you are moving. That is the only way that a motionless danger could have entered the spell's area, after all.

I think a similar structure would make your spell truly worthwhile. I feel like your version would also remove nearly all the risk involved with putting traps in a dungeon. Yes, the party technically needs to deal with the trap, but they're learning when there is one and where it is without spending any resources. I would rather the spell take some time to use; particularly helpful if the DM threatens the party with patrols or other challenges if they take their time.


For a second level spell, I think learning the location of the trap's trigger wouldn't be that unreasonable. It's unlikely to replace having an actual trapfinder, but works in a pinch if you don't have one. I still don't like the idea. Would giving the spell the ritual tag satisfactorily fill the same niche?


That "living" section is really interesting. I'm torn between "living creatures aren't traps and the spell shouldn't work on them" and "but that sounds like a really useful ability to have in some way, shape, or form". After all, a gargoyle or piercer aren't technically invisible... If the spell identifies "things that can move to harm you but currently aren't doing so," I think including creatures is fair. It can also be used plants and animals that serve as traps within the environment, something I would want to keep in even if I remove the spell's ability to identify gargoyles and piercers. You can see more of the sort of trap I'm thinking of here here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?627648-Additional-Plant-Creatures-and-Bunch-of-Plant-Based-Traps).

[GalacticAxekick]

General Question.
Would the spell work better if it were available as a ritual? That could let the party spend time instead of spell slots, making the spell more useful at dungeon entrances and similarly safe areas without letting high level casters spam it to learn the locations of the traps.I wouldn't hesitate to cast this at an entrance or in a similarly safe place! I'd much rather spend 10 minutes than a 2nd level slot on a hunch, after all.

But I'm not sure I would learn this spell, given the narrow use-case. Only if the game promised many traps (like a heist game or something).


The spell does already tell you the number of traps, which you might have trouble learning otherwise, especially if some are better hidden than others. Maybe this is just the way my friends design games, but how often are more than one trap in one area? The hallway has an Indiana Jones ball OR arrows in the walls. The floor collapses into a pit OR conceals a rope snare. Moving the jewel sets off an alarm OR causes the room to self-destruct. In my experience.

So the clause about learning multiple traps means nothing to me personally.


I feel like your version would also remove nearly all the risk involved with putting traps in a dungeon. Yes, the party technically needs to deal with the trap, but they're learning when there is one and where it is without spending any resources.I wasnt suggesting that you to take my version word-for-word. Only that you take the concept of a radius of detection that follows you for the duration, or until a trap is detected.

So you spend a 2nd level slot. If a trap is already within 30 feet of you, you learn this, and you learn ots general nature (just as you wrote). If not, the spell hangs around for the duration, and if at any point a trap enters within 30 feet of you, you learn this and its general nature. The spell ends.

This makes the spell useful in safe places lile entrances places and dangerous places like patrolled halls alike. It gives you great info (the nature of trap, and potentially its position if you approached it and caused it to enter the radius at exactly 120 feet in front of you), but it costs a 2nd level slot, and it only detects one trap. One trap you still need to disarm or avoid.

I personally prefer this to a ritual I can only really use in safe places. But this is your table, not mine.

[Breccia]

If the spell identifies "things that can move to harm you but currently aren't doing so," I think including creatures is fair. It can also be used plants and animals that serve as traps within the environment, something I would want to keep in even if I remove the spell's ability to identify gargoyles and piercers. You can see more of the sort of trap I'm thinking of here here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?627648-Additional-Plant-Creatures-and-Bunch-of-Plant-Based-Traps).

I mean, there are a few options. They are not mutually exclusive.
1) Make detect invisible work on those.
2) Make detect trap work on those.
3) A new spell/ability "detect ambush" for creatures that are hiding (in or out of plain sight)
4) Every character just brings a sledgehammer and pulverizes every statue they ever find, while the players groan and roll their eyes.

I was going to add "detect life" but of course not all monsters are alive. Put six skeletons in a mass grave and "detect life" won't do a damned thing, so we'd be back to the above anyhow.

Right now, "gargoyle standing in plain sight" (just to pick an example) isn't invisible, isn't a trap, there is no "detect ambush" although a barbarian or rogue might have something to say about that, the monster stat block gives no chance to Investigate or Perceive it, and therefore justifies #4. Which is boring and takes the air out of the encounter.

So yeah, I'm in favor of...something. This spell might as well be the solution, or at least, a solution.

[Williamnot]

It wasn't a problem at my table, but for a new campaign I'm starting I'm going to be giving the players a device that an NPC was tinkering with that essentially does what was suggested above:



Tingle
Divination cantrip

Casting Time: Bonus action
Range: 30 feet
Components: V, S
Duration: 1 minute
You awaken a subtle sixth sense, which warns you of danger.

If a hostile creature, a trap, or another hazard (such as a natural weakness in the floor, an unstable ceiling, or a hidden sinkhole) can be found anywhere within range, and if you are not already aware of this danger, a tingle runs up your spine, and this spell ends.

This spell merely reveals that danger is present. You don’t learn the location or the number of the dangerous forces: only that danger is nearby.

(Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard)

Except rather than be just a tingle, it shocks the player using it for 1 lightning damage(****s and giggles mostly) and then there's a recharge of an hour.

This gives the "hey heads up, maybe start using your eyes" that I feel most players want, without making traps pointless. They have to be on the lookout for traps on their own from that moment forward. It lets the players wander without needing to investigate every room for no reason, and avoids that first trap frustration.

[GalacticAxekick]

Except rather than be just a tingle, it shocks the player using it for 1 lightning damage(****s and giggles mostly) and then there's a recharge of an hour.

This gives the "hey heads up, maybe start using your eyes" that I feel most players want, without making traps pointless. They have to be on the lookout for traps on their own from that moment forward. It lets the players wander without needing to investigate every room for no reason, and avoids that first trap frustration.For a 1st level wizard, 1 point of damage is 1/6th of your health. That's the difference between a near-death experience and death. The cantrip would be suicidal. I'd never touch it.

If you want to prevent spam, give it a longer casting time (or a cooldown, I guess). But I personally dont think spam prevention is necessary, because the information it provides is so vague.

[Williamnot]

For a 1st level wizard, 1 point of damage is 1/6th of your health. That's the difference between a near-death experience and death. The cantrip would be suicidal. I'd never touch it.

If you want to prevent spam, give it a longer casting time (or a cooldown, I guess). But I personally dont think spam prevention is necessary, because the information it provides is so vague.


Sorry, I wasn't very clear. My suggestion is a mechanical device that an NPC makes, rather than a cantrip. The one damage was meant to be a joke feature of the device, not a balancing feature. The balancing feature is that it has a 1 hour cooldown period before the device can be activated. If you want to use the device but worry about the one damage, take the damage off, it isn't integral to the design.


Cipher's Unfinished Trap Detector
Wondrous Item, Uncommon

As a bonus action, you flip a switch on Cipher's Unfinished Trap Detector, activating it. While the device is on, it makes a constant, subtle whirring sound.

While Cipher's Unfinished Trap Detector is activated, if a hostile creature, a trap, or another hazard (such as a natural weakness in the floor, an unstable ceiling, or a hidden sinkhole) can be found anywhere within a range of 30ft, and if you are not already aware of this danger, the Trap Detector deals 1 lightning damage to the holder and deactivates.

Cipher's Unfinished Trap Detector cannot be activated for 1 hour after it deactivates.

This device merely reveals that danger is present. You don’t learn the location or the number of the dangerous forces: only that danger is nearby.

(Majority of text taken from the Tingle cantrip above, I felt that the wording was more precise than I could have gotten it myself)

[GalacticAxekick]

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. My suggestion is a mechanical device that an NPC makes, rather than a cantrip. The one damage was meant to be a joke feature of the device, not a balancing feature. The balancing feature is that it has a 1 hour cooldown period before the device can be activated. If you want to use the device but worry about the one damage, take the damage off, it isn't integral to the design.I see. Again, I dont like the cooldown, but if you prefer it that way feel free to run with the idea! I'm glad to contribute ideas to your table!

[sandmote]

I wouldn't hesitate to cast this at an entrance or in a similarly safe place! I'd much rather spend 10 minutes than a 2nd level slot on a hunch, after all.

But I'm not sure I would learn this spell, given the narrow use-case. Only if the game promised many traps (like a heist game or something). I don't think there's a way to make a trap that identifies traps worth having rangers learn without making it completely broken. The other classes with Find Traps (and therefore Detect Traps) on their spell lists prepare spells. They only need to give anything up as long as they're around the kobold's nest or some other trap heavy area.


Maybe this is just the way my friends design games, but how often are more than one trap in one area? The hallway has an Indiana Jones ball OR arrows in the walls. The floor collapses into a pit OR conceals a rope snare. Moving the jewel sets off an alarm OR causes the room to self-destruct. In my experience. Ogres and hill giants aren't likely to have traps set up at all, and I do expect other giants and goblinoids not to bother with many traps, sure. If I'm running kobolds past 3rd level the layered traps are probably the dangerous part of the encounter. And if I want to establish the structure the party is inside is about to collapse, I'd also rather run with many small traps over one big one.

Beside those, I actually do like including simultaneously dangerous and sessile plants in my games. I can include one by itself, and I can insert the same exact trap in another encounter and have it work the same way. In theory that lets me ease the party into multilayer traps and allow them to come up with ways to use existing traps for their own benefit (because you can assume the same species of plant works the same way each time, where the same sort of trap built by different cultures are likely to work differently).


I wasnt suggesting that you to take my version word-for-word. Only that you take the concept of a radius of detection that follows you for the duration, or until a trap is detected.

So you spend a 2nd level slot. If a trap is already within 30 feet of you, you learn this, and you learn ots general nature (just as you wrote). If not, the spell hangs around for the duration, and if at any point a trap enters within 30 feet of you, you learn this and its general nature. The spell ends.

This makes the spell useful in safe places lile entrances places and dangerous places like patrolled halls alike. It gives you great info (the nature of trap, and potentially its position if you approached it and caused it to enter the radius at exactly 120 feet in front of you), but it costs a 2nd level slot, and it only detects one trap. One trap you still need to disarm or avoid. I mistook you for meaning it would be better to run a "the next trap you walk into" spell vs an "identify multiple traps on one spot. Thanks for sticking around to get "hybrids exist" through my thick skull.

Actually going over the idea, I do like it a lot better than "aura spell that identifies one trap." Note sure of a single range that can fulfil both goals through. I'll add both the ritual tag and the "if no traps are located warn of the next one in 30 feet" effect for now.


I was going to add "detect life" but of course not all monsters are alive. Put six skeletons in a mass grave and "detect life" won't do a damned thing, so we'd be back to the above anyhow.
...
So yeah, I'm in favor of...something. This spell might as well be the solution, or at least, a solution. To be fair, 5e design philosophy would be to make a single "Detect Life and Undeath" spell. Although Detect Thoughts partially fills a similar niche, even if its too expensive for anyone to bother employing the spell for this purpose.


It wasn't a problem at my table, but for a new campaign I'm starting I'm going to be giving the players a device that an NPC was tinkering with that essentially does what was suggested above:

Except rather than be just a tingle, it shocks the player using it for 1 lightning damage(****s and giggles mostly) and then there's a recharge of an hour.

This gives the "hey heads up, maybe start using your eyes" that I feel most players want, without making traps pointless. They have to be on the lookout for traps on their own from that moment forward. It lets the players wander without needing to investigate every room for no reason, and avoids that first trap frustration. This sounds like it would be a lot of fun at the table. Trading 1 point of HP to reduce average damage taken from traps also seems like a fair trade. I assume it goes over the head, given it can divine what dangers the PC using it already knows about?

[GalacticAxekick]

I don't think there's a way to make a trap that identifies traps worth having rangers learn without making it completely broken. The other classes with Find Traps (and therefore Detect Traps) on their spell lists prepare spells. They only need to give anything up as long as they're around the kobold's nest or some other trap heavy area.Excellent point, regarding Clerics and Druids.

I disagree, however, that there's no way to make it worthwhile for Rangers without making it broken. I think the version we've created together—the version which detects artificial traps, natural hazards, and ambushing creatures, and which continues to scan for such dangers as the caster moves about—is worthwhile.


I actually do like including simultaneously dangerous and sessile plants in my games. I can include one by itself, and I can insert the same exact trap in another encounter and have it work the same way. In theory that lets me ease the party into multilayer traps and allow them to come up with ways to use existing traps for their own benefit (because you can assume the same species of plant works the same way each time, where the same sort of trap built by different cultures are likely to work differently). This is good, textbook game design. And as long as you're designing games this way, it is quite valuable to detect multiple traps at once!