undetectable spell shenanigans: Invisible + still + silent spell

[Jervis]

Hello all. I'm wondering if i can get some advice/help and making a very, very, stupid concept work. Randomly the other day i was talking about magic components and how a spell without any is basically imperceptible. Well, i thought, why not go all the way and make them invisible too. Invisible spell is basically free after all, well it costs a feat but it's worth it imo and there are ways to get metamagic bonus feats. So i wanted to make a character that applies Silent + still + invisible metamagics to everything. Create a character that can look at a guy and make them, and everyone around them, explode. This is what i've been looking into.

Metamagic Reducers
Problem is all of them are spell based or have a limit of +1. I could maybe find an obscure way to drop invisible to -1 and effectively buy off one of the +1s that way. But the only way i know of to do that is specific to a given spell and my goal is a stupid all spells invisible and their castings undetectable kinda build.

Dragon Type
According to a obscure rule squirreled away in dragon magazine that mentions a general rule about dragons all having a free Silent + Still spell with no cost, being a dragonwroght kobold would fill my main requirements. To my understanding this mysterious general rule apparently either exists in some obscure first party material elsewhere, or otherwise in development documents that never made it to print. Either way this is mega cheese that relies on a DM not only allowing dragon, but also taking dragon as a authoritative source on this. I personally like it just because applying this to my dragon enemies has lead to some fun. Buuuuut playing it is unlikely unless you're playing in a cheese heavy game. This however does help with my next possible solution.

Being a Tome Dragon
Another dragon mag gem. These guys are basically unplayable without a generous LA allowance. But 3/4 of their racial hit die, which are dragon d12s with full bab, 6+int skills, and all good saves mind you, add to sorcerer levels. A wyrmling is 3hd with 3 sorcerer levels. Loredrake gets them to 17 levels of sorc casting at 20 HD and of course spell hoarding to make them wizards makes the best Gish to ever Gish, well, ignoring the ungodly double digit LA at that age that is. The best part however, at least for this, is their ability to ignore several points of spell level adjustment from metamagic. Type based or not, these guys get what you want.

Buuuuuut the LA is unplayable so who cares. Well we still do because a Dragonwroght Kobold (told you it would come back) can alter self into one and use the Assume Supernatural Ability feat to yoink all that sweet sweet free metamagic. Polymorph or draconic wild shape and various other shenanigans can let you do it basically permanently. Probably the most "viable" of these for a actual game.

Psionics
Confuse me greatly. I'm using them for a TO character build right now and i dont understand everything about them. But a fairly trivial concentration check suppresses their displays and everything but the actual effect of the spell. So it theoretically gets everything i want for the cost of mild concentration check optimization. problem, i don't understand them well enough at this juncture to say for sure if this is actually how it works. Id like to hear thoughts. I'm always up for learning more about psionics.

Be a Phaerim larva
WotC making these guys 1hd la +1 was a mistake. And yes their last published statblock, the 3.5 update/erata of their first appearance ironically, puts them at this. Replacing that first HD with sorcerer makes you ECL 2 with 2 levels of sorcerer casting, only slightly worse than a Kobold, but you're also a tiny aberration who casts all spells as SPELL LIKE ABILITIES. So no components and the only reason they provoke a aoo is that you space out a little while casting. Because of this wording you also can just apply that free metamagic from before aaaaaaand now you just hide in the fighter's back pack spamming spells through eyeholes. Might be fun as a two player combo character that makes people think he's some kind of turbo mystic. While RAW this is both very powerful and theoretically playable as early as level 3, good luck finding someone that will allow it because, you know, no XP of gold cost for anything. But if i can ever find one i'll definitely play one of those sunflowers from hell.

So any holes in this or advice on how to get my meme build going?

[Venger]

The simplest way of accomplishing your goal is to just be a psionic character. The DC is the same formula as a normal concentration check to manifest defensively so you'll be investing in it anyway and should never have trouble making it. There is no optimization necessary.

If you understand spells, you understand psionics since there are only a couple of differences. I assume you have read the srd section on how manifesting powers works. What specifically confuses you? If it's just displays, then if you hit the check, you dispense with displays and there is no sensory way an observer will know you manifested a power. Even if you manage to fail the concentration check somehow, you just manifest it normally, you do not lose the power like if you fail to manifest defensively.

[Jervis]

The simplest way of accomplishing your goal is to just be a psionic character. The DC is the same formula as a normal concentration check to manifest defensively so you'll be investing in it anyway and should never have trouble making it. There is no optimization necessary.

If you understand spells, you understand psionics since there are only a couple of differences. I assume you have read the srd section on how manifesting powers works. What specifically confuses you? If it's just displays, then if you hit the check, you dispense with displays and there is no sensory way an observer will know you manifested a power. Even if you manage to fail the concentration check somehow, you just manifest it normally, you do not lose the power like if you fail to manifest defensively.

Wait so it really is that simple? As in, pass the check and you can just make a invisible fireball (well the equivalent anyway) go off anywhere in range? Dang, that’s pretty good, I thought I was misreading it. How does that interact with StP erudite exactly?

[noce]

Partially unrelated, but remember that NPC with spellcraft can still detect a spell (or psicraft for powers).
As per SRD, the base check is 15 + spell level if you witness the spell being cast with some sort of components. If you're hit by a spell enforcing a ST, the check is 25 + spell level but It doesn't require you to see/hear components. If you can detect the effects of an ongoing spell, the check is 20 + spell level (even an invisible wall of fire produces heat).

[Jervis]

Partially unrelated, but remember that NPC with spellcraft can still detect a spell (or psicraft for powers).
As per SRD, the base check is 15 + spell level if you witness the spell being cast with some sort of components. If you're hit by a spell enforcing a ST, the check is 25 + spell level but It doesn't require you to see/hear components. If you can detect the effects of an ongoing spell, the check is 20 + spell level (even an invisible wall of fire produces heat).

How does that work if you just concentrate away the components? Obviously the hit and effect based ones would still work normally but would they still be able to make it with a no component spell/power?

As a side note now i’m picturing a StP Erudite using a psionic version of spell thematics (magic :) ) to pretend to be a wizard. Probables is he would still get discovered quickly because DC 19 + spell level isn’t exactly hard to snuff out when half your peers are aspiring to be a incantrix.

Are there any other options for making spells/ powers look like other spells or pump the dc to identify them? Maybe some way to make it a apposed check? Dang it now I need to pull out magic mantle cheese and make a StP erudite.

[noce]

How does that work if you just concentrate away the components? Obviously the hit and effect based ones would still work normally but would they still be able to make it with a no component spell/power?

Assuming no components, anyone with Spellcraft/Psicraft has a chance to identify spells/powers in two cases:

It forces a saving throw on himself
It has an ongoing effect


So all you can do is use spells/powers with no save on someone with spellcraft, or with an instant duration on someone without spellcraft (so that bystanders still cannot identify it).

[Anthrowhale]

Shadowcraft Mage 3 gets silent spell for free with illusions so Arcane Thesis[Silent Image], Invisible Spell, Still Spell, and Heighten Spell provides a means to mimic any sorcerer or wizard conjuration (summoning), conjuration (creation), or evocation spell. You may want to add Earth Spell to that to list for the extra bump in mimicable spell level.

[Troacctid]

Are there any other options for making spells/ powers look like other spells or pump the dc to identify them? Maybe some way to make it a apposed check? Dang it now I need to pull out magic mantle cheese and make a StP erudite.
Disguise Spell and Deceptive Spell both play in this space, as do the skill tricks Conceal Spellcasting and False Theurgy. Spells can be disguised as a function of the Sleight of Hand skill, as described in Rules Compendium. Mysterious Magic grants +5 to the DC to identify your spells; Spell Thematics grants +4.

[Jack_Simth]

Partially unrelated, but remember that NPC with spellcraft can still detect a spell (or psicraft for powers).
As per SRD, the base check is 15 + spell level if you witness the spell being cast with some sort of components. If you're hit by a spell enforcing a ST, the check is 25 + spell level but It doesn't require you to see/hear components. If you can detect the effects of an ongoing spell, the check is 20 + spell level (even an invisible wall of fire produces heat).

If they can observe the effects, they can identify that it's a spell, and what spell it is. So yes, if you see a bunch of people suddenly get burned, someone trained in spellcraft has a roll to tell if it was Burning Hands, Scorching Ray, Fireball, or something else, despite Invisible Spell and no verbal/somatic/material components.

That said: Knowing what spell it was doesn't tell you who cast it. You're still blowing someone up just by thinking about it, with no direct connection to you....

[Ramza00]

Half Fey LA of 1 with Supernatural Transformation gives you a Charm Person at Will, and Supernatural Transformation makes it all mental with no signs besides what noce said already. Just be in a crowded room and try to make a person your friend again and again till it works. Oh yeah Supernatural Transformation also boosts your Save DC since it is now half your HD instead of a spell level of 1.