Sorcerer subclass spell options. How broken.

[Khrysaes]

So, this is homebrew stemming from my misreading of the sorcerer font of magic ability

Until someone pointed it out in another thread i had always used the table given as both the cost to make spell slots and the points gained from converting a spell slot. I.e: takes 2 points for a first level spell, 3 for a second, etc. and the slots give that number of points.

That said i was excited when aberrant mind came out because with my misreading, i had thought that the subclass spells cost 1 point per spell level and each spell slot when converted to points gave more points than the subclass spell used. I.e. convert a 1st level slot to 2 points. Cast 2 first level spells from the subclass list.

So how broken would it be to use it this way, both for aberrant mind and all sorcerer subclasses in combination with homebrew subclass spell lists?

Ti me it feels fitting, like they have an innate affinity for their “bloodline” spells, and can cast them more often.

[RSP]

I’d suggest just using Spell Points for Sorcerers which is slightly better than what you’re proposing, so I don’t see anything wrong with your homebrew.

[Khrysaes]

I’d suggest just using Spell Points for Sorcerers which is slightly better than what you’re proposing, so I don’t see anything wrong with your homebrew.

What about both?
Sorcerer origin bonus spells cost 1 point per spell level. Other spells cost as seen on the table.

[PhantomSoul]

What about both?
Sorcerer origin bonus spells cost 1 point per spell level. Other spells cost as seen on the table.

I wouldn't do this with subclass lists you control (like for Aberrant), nor would I feel too inclined to suggest it overall (Spell Points are already THAT good and the cost scaling might already be too shallow at [spell level]+[spell tier]). It might be quite fine in practice, but I'd definitely suggest trying out Spell Points alone before jumping to an even stronger version.

[loki_ragnarock]

So, this is homebrew stemming from my misreading of the sorcerer font of magic ability

Until someone pointed it out in another thread i had always used the table given as both the cost to make spell slots and the points gained from converting a spell slot. I.e: takes 2 points for a first level spell, 3 for a second, etc. and the slots give that number of points.

That said i was excited when aberrant mind came out because with my misreading, i had thought that the subclass spells cost 1 point per spell level and each spell slot when converted to points gave more points than the subclass spell used. I.e. convert a 1st level slot to 2 points. Cast 2 first level spells from the subclass list.

So how broken would it be to use it this way, both for aberrant mind and all sorcerer subclasses in combination with homebrew subclass spell lists?

Ti me it feels fitting, like they have an innate affinity for their “bloodline” spells, and can cast them more often.

There would have to be subclass spell lists to vet, first, to really get an eyeball on it.

In concept... I don't have a problem with it. It would finally give sorcerers a niche beyond "worst wizard" and "multi-class only."

[RSP]

What about both?
Sorcerer origin bonus spells cost 1 point per spell level. Other spells cost as seen on the table.

By “both” do you mean using the Spell Point variant, and having less cost to transfer Spell Slots to Sorcery Points?

I think it depends how it works. In our current campaign we’re using one pool of sorcerer points and spell points (one pool of SP that can be 1 for 1 Spell Points or Sorcerer Points).

So far (only level 4) no issues with that, but the Tasha’s subclasses are more powerful than previous subclasses so not sure how that would translate.

My initial stance would be to try it, if interested, with an understanding with the DM and Player that if it seems too powerful with Aberrant Mind, scale it back or just play the subclass straight without changes.

[Mastikator]

What would aberrant mind get in exchange of their 6th level class feature being turned into a free sorcerer feature?

[PhantomSoul]

What would aberrant mind get in exchange of their 6th level class feature being turned into a free sorcerer feature?

They'd still get the pseudo-Subtle effect, I assume

[RSP]

What would aberrant mind get in exchange of their 6th level class feature being turned into a free sorcerer feature?

My understanding of the OP is that the 6th level feature isn’t given away.

The OP, if I’m understanding correctly, initially thought the Flexible Casting costs were the same whether creating spell slots or breaking them down (the costs of making them per the RAW). So the Sorcery Point conversion was consistent, as opposed to the RAW of getting less Sorcery Points for breaking down spells (1 per slot level) than it costs to make them (1st 2, 2nd 3, 3rd 5, 4th 6, 5th 7).

So the AM would still benefit from their level 6 ability, as casting a 5th level spell for 5 Sorcery Points is better than for 7 Sorcery Points. Plus, the AM feature doesn’t require a BA to make the slot first.

[Khrysaes]

My understanding of the OP is that the 6th level feature isn’t given away.

The OP, if I’m understanding correctly, initially thought the Flexible Casting costs were the same whether creating spell slots or breaking them down (the costs of making them per the RAW). So the Sorcery Point conversion was consistent, as opposed to the RAW of getting less Sorcery Points for breaking down spells (1 per slot level) than it costs to make them (1st 2, 2nd 3, 3rd 5, 4th 6, 5th 7).

So the AM would still benefit from their level 6 ability, as casting a 5th level spell for 5 Sorcery Points is better than for 7 Sorcery Points. Plus, the AM feature doesn’t require a BA to make the slot first.

Right. This was my misunderstanding.

My “both” thought was:
1 if sorcerers use the spell point variant and combine it with their sorcery points.
2 homebrew/houserule that each sorcerous origin has their own bonus spell list, much like AM and clockwork. For example, what if divine soul got to choose a cleric domain’s bonus spell list.
3 in addition to AM all sorcerer subclasses could cast their bonus spells at a 1 point per spell level, so 1 instead of 2, 2 instead of 3. 3 instead of 5. 4 instead of 6. 5 instead of 7. This promotes a “inborn power” feel in that their origin spells are cheaper than other spells.
4. AM would still get subtle spell and the ability to change their bonus spells to divination or enchantment spells. Other subclasses wouldnt.

This solves several issues i have with sorcerers. Namely, the number of spells known, by adding bonus spells to each subclass. AND. Identity, in that their inborn magic, the said bonus spells, are their specialization and they can cast them longer and more flexibly through the cheaper sorcery point costs and metamagic.

Font of magic conversions could work as normal for a milticlassed character

[RSP]

2 homebrew/houserule that each sorcerous origin has their own bonus spell list, much like AM and clockwork. For example, what if divine soul got to choose a cleric domain’s bonus spell list.
3 in addition to AM all sorcerer subclasses could cast their bonus spells at a 1 point per spell level, so 1 instead of 2, 2 instead of 3. 3 instead of 5. 4 instead of 6. 5 instead of 7. This promotes a “inborn power” feel in that their origin spells are cheaper than other spells.

I didn’t realize this part.

Not sure all Sorcerers need everything. Sorc are, RAW, basically bad Wizards. AM and Clockwork Soul balanced that out by being particularly powerful subclasses.

I think giving Sorcerers the SP Variant both bridges that gap as well as gives them their own special feel to being a caster.

You’re probably pushing them past the Wizard if they also get more spells known (via subclass spells) and cheaper casting of those spells, as well as Spell Points.