Question about the interaction between Pride granted domain power and Mord's Disjunct

[Melcar]

Haven't been on here for a long time, but I have a question you guys might help me with.

Assuming I'm a cleric who has the Pride domain... Lets assume I get struck by Mordenkainen's Disjunction. Would the save, my items would need to take to avoid getting disjoined, benefit from the Pride domain granted power while in my possession? And if so, would each item be able to reroll a 1, or would it only be the first 1 rolled?

Thanks!

[Jervis]

Haven't been on here for a long time, but I have a question you guys might help me with.

Assuming I'm a cleric who has the Pride domain... Lets assume I get struck by Mordenkainen's Disjunction. Would the save, my items would need to take to avoid getting disjoined, benefit from the Pride domain granted power while in my possession? And if so, would each item be able to reroll a 1, or would it only be the first 1 rolled?

Thanks!

I believe this might be better in the simple raw thread but regardless it's a good question. Items get your saving throw bonuses but they don't save as you. So they don't benefit from things like pride domain, evasion, mettle, etc.

[Melcar]

I believe this might be better in the simple raw thread but regardless it's a good question. Items get your saving throw bonuses but they don't save as you. So they don't benefit from things like pride domain, evasion, mettle, etc.

Right, that was unfortunately my conclusion as well, but like so many times before, I have been corrected by the greater collective of the forum! :)

Thanks, and happy new years in D&D land!

[Jervis]

Right, that was unfortunately my conclusion as well, but like so many times before, I have been corrected by the greater collective of the forum! :)

Thanks, and happy new years in D&D land!

Welcome. If all you want is Disjunction immunity then it’s actually pretty easy. Just get a pet Nightmare. They get Astral Projection as a at will SLA. It can take itself and you on a magical mystical journey to right next to where you cast it. You astral project and then materialize next to year real body. Congratulations you and your equipment are just magical copies of the real things. If they and you get dysjointed, you wake up back at your castle with all your doodads intact. Also has the bonus cool ability of making you immune to death. Downside is that, like, two monsters in existence can kill you more easily (just have a contingent Revivify to revive your real body instantly after that) and spells like dispel magic and dysjunction can insta kill you if you don’t counterspell them. I suggest counterspelling them.

[Melcar]

Welcome. If all you want is Disjunction immunity then it’s actually pretty easy. Just get a pet Nightmare. They get Astral Projection as a at will SLA. It can take itself and you on a magical mystical journey to right next to where you cast it. You astral project and then materialize next to year real body. Congratulations you and your equipment are just magical copies of the real things. If they and you get dysjointed, you wake up back at your castle with all your doodads intact. Also has the bonus cool ability of making you immune to death. Downside is that, like, two monsters in existence can kill you more easily (just have a contingent Revivify to revive your real body instantly after that) and spells like dispel magic and dysjunction can insta kill you if you don’t counterspell them. I suggest counterspelling them.

Right… I belive casting Wings of Cover too, would help, But this was more specifically a Question about Pride domain granted power… However, I do like the Astral projection idea, it’s just surviving the githyanki and astral juggernaut!

[AvatarVecna]

I believe this might be better in the simple raw thread but regardless it's a good question. Items get your saving throw bonuses but they don't save as you. So they don't benefit from things like pride domain, evasion, mettle, etc.

This might actually be incorrect.

Link (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#savingThrows)


Saving Throws
Nonmagical, unattended items never make saving throws. They are considered to have failed their saving throws, so they always are affected by spells. An item attended by a character (being grasped, touched, or worn) makes saving throws as the character (that is, using the character’s saving throw bonus).

Magic items always get saving throws. A magic item’s Fortitude, Reflex, and Will save bonuses are equal to 2 + one-half its caster level. An attended magic item either makes saving throws as its owner or uses its own saving throw bonus, whichever is better.

There are two readings of this, to my mind, and I think I'm too biased to really be sure if mine is strict RAW or not.


makes saving throws as the character (that is, using the character’s saving throw bonus).

One potential reading: the bold text is the Rules, and the underlined text is a layman generalization (that is, "what the bolded text means most of the time").

Another potential reading: the bold text is the Rules, but the underlined text is the definition for that rule. This can be better summarized with a slight rephrasing:


makes saving throws as the character (which usually means, using the character’s saving throw bonus).


makes saving throws as the character (which is defined as using the character’s saving throw bonus).

Under the first reading, anything that alters the owner's saves, such as the Pride domain, or the Steadfast Determination feat, also applies to their items. Under the second reading, nothing but the pure saving throw bonus of the owner matters for the item.

I think the first reading makes more sense. The rule doesn't just say "uses your bonus", it says "makes saves as you do". But I might be biased in favor of things that make Disjunction suck less for everybody.

[Jervis]

Honestly Dysjunction is one of those spells I never use in any game I run under the gentleman’s agreement to not use anti-fun tactics. I contemplated using it once against the worst player I ever had the displeasure of dealing with since he threw all of his WBL into a literally rock but decided just to suck his soul into a magic sword.

[Melcar]

Honestly Dysjunction is one of those spells I never use in any game I run under the gentleman’s agreement to not use anti-fun tactics. I contemplated using it once against the worst player I ever had the displeasure of dealing with since he threw all of his WBL into a literally rock but decided just to suck his soul into a magic sword.

I agree its a un-fun spell.. mostly for the players, but can be for a DM too, but as you say, sometimes it might seldomly be called for... In such a situation, its nice to know whats what, and how to deal with it.



This might actually be incorrect.

Link (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#savingThrows)



There are two readings of this, to my mind, and I think I'm too biased to really be sure if mine is strict RAW or not.



One potential reading: the bold text is the Rules, and the underlined text is a layman generalization (that is, "what the bolded text means most of the time").

Another potential reading: the bold text is the Rules, but the underlined text is the definition for that rule. This can be better summarized with a slight rephrasing:





Under the first reading, anything that alters the owner's saves, such as the Pride domain, or the Steadfast Determination feat, also applies to their items. Under the second reading, nothing but the pure saving throw bonus of the owner matters for the item.

I think the first reading makes more sense. The rule doesn't just say "uses your bonus", it says "makes saves as you do". But I might be biased in favor of things that make Disjunction suck less for everybody.

Great find!

[Kitsuneymg]

Fwiw pathfinder disjunction only suppresses items for 1 min/level. So I feel less bad about that version.