You just gained a level in real life: 2022 edition! [Archive]

Troacctid

2022-01-01, 03:00 AM

A new year, a new level!

You can choose any class to gain a level in, and you gain the benefits of that level for yourself in real life. What would you choose?

Rules:
Before posting, please consult the spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1F9_HAZgHMTlsurJUs96IzO2_VVq8rZmZaKpbjC3Y2YA/edit?usp=sharing) to double-check whether you have any other levels already! If you participated in this exercise in previous years, you keep the level(s) you had before, meaning you may now be as high as level 7! Those levels are all locked in as of...now. However, if you didn't post in the thread that year, you did not level up.

Use 3.5e or Pathfinder, whichever you're most familiar with. 3.5e includes Dragon Magazine and official web enhancements. By popular demand, 3rd party material (for either edition) is allowed and counts as a separate, third category. If you're familiar with multiple editions, you can do all of them individually if you like, and have two or three different versions of your build, all of which will be the same level.

As part of gaining your first level, you gain your choice of the nonelite array (13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8) or the standard array (11, 11, 11, 10, 10, 10), arranged as you like. These scores control your "game" attributes such as spellcasting and skill points, and the associated modifiers will be layered over your real-life abilities to make you stronger or weaker in that stat, as appropriate.

Similarly, any skills and other abilities that you gain from your class levels will be layered on top of whatever you can already do. If you get a bonus to something, you will become that much better at that thing, and if you get a penalty, you'll become that much worse. For example, whatever languages you already speak would be your automatic languages, and if you gain a bonus language due to your Intelligence score, you can learn a new one. If you take the Murky-Eyed flaw in order to gain Endurance as a bonus feat, you'll be a better athlete, but you'll be wanting a new pair of eyeglasses.

As a human, you gain the normal benefits of being a human. In Pathfinder, that includes the ability score bonus, and you can choose variant traits if it suits you. In 3.5e, you can still get the +2 ability bonus to one score by trading away your bonus feat and skill points via the Complacent Human variant. Aging modifiers apply as normal.

The reason we're doing it one level at a time is because part of the fun of the exercise is seeing the gradual payoff of your choices and maybe even changing your mind about some of them and going in a new direction. It also makes it into a fun annual tradition as well.

Bonus points if you stat out a whole character sheet!

Previous threads:
2021 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?624809-You-just-gained-a-level-in-real-life-2021-edition!)
2020 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?605712-You-just-gained-a-level-in-real-life-2020-edition!)
2019 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?577453-You-just-gained-a-level-in-real-life!-What-class-would-you-take)
2018 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?546315-You-just-gained-a-level-in-real-life!-What-class-would-you-take)
2017 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?510641-You-just-gained-a-level-in-real-life!-What-class-would-you-take)
2016 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?476465-Every-year-starting-now-you-gain-a-level-IRL-What-is-your-build)

Q: Do magic abilities work? I mean, magic isn't real, right?
A: Yes, magic abilities work. Rumors that Earth is a dead magic zone have apparently been grossly exaggerated.

Q: Are other people in the world leveling up too?
A: Only the people who have posted in this thread.

Q: Will I be leveling up again in the future? If so, when?
A: Maybe you will and maybe you won't. I guess it depends on whether you post in the thread each year!

Q: Is retraining allowed?
A: Yes. Use the normal rules for it under your chosen system.

Q: What about rebuilding?
A: Pathfinder rules allow for rebuilds; 3.5e rules do not.

Q: Am I going to lose any of the skills and abilities I already have and replace them with game statistics?
A: No. The level you gain is layered on top of everything you can already do, and any modifiers apply to your existing skills as a baseline. You can think of it as a gestalt build if that helps.

Q: How do gp costs work?
A: They use up money or material wealth at a reasonable exchange rate. Specifics aren't important; we're not here to do math.

Q: How do xp costs work?
A: You accumulate xp over time by literally accumulating experiences. Over the course of one year, you can earn xp equal to your level x 1000 at a fairly constant rate of slightly less than 20 xp per level per week, provided you spend time living your life and doing meaningful things. The amount of xp you can hold at a time is limited to your level x 1000. (This is based on the xp a character of your level could have in-game.) This is only used for xp costs, not for leveling up; to level up, you just post in the yearly thread, and that's it.

Q: What counts as a meaningful life experience for earning xp?
A: As long as you're not in a coma, or mindlessly watching TV all day, or whatever, you can expect to get your xp. There is one exception: you cannot earn xp on any day that you spend xp. Activities like crafting will temporarily pause your xp gain until they are completed.

Q: I get that I have to be a human, but can I take a template?
A: Template classes are fair game as long as you have at least one real class level first. Use savage progression rules for them, even if the template class wouldn't normally work that way. Any template that can't be taken as a template class is probably going to be unavailable, unless you can somehow gain it via class features.

Q: What about setting-specific material, or regional requirements?
A: Assume they are adapted to another, similar requirement that makes sense in our world.

Q: I have a question about how a particular rules interaction would work under this model.
A: You can ask in the thread, but here are two general rules of thumb. First, most things work the way they'd be expected to work in an actual fantasy world, so if one interpretation of a rule would break established D&D canon if it were true, and another wouldn't, the latter one is more likely to be correct. Second, if you would normally have to consult with your DM about how it works, you can assume you don't know the answer as you make your decision—you'd have to try the interaction and find out for yourself. For the purpose of this exercise, I'll act as the referee for such things and adjudicate what would happen.

Q: If I take crafting feats, what items can I craft?
A: As long as you have the prerequisites, you can craft any existing, published magic item, or combinations thereof (at the appropriate price modifiers). You cannot invent a custom item unless you are a 3PP build.

Q: What about custom prestige race alterations?
A: Eh, sure, subject to the same limits on magic items. It has to be based on an existing magic item, and you'll pay 40% of the item's market price in xp. Just arrange them into a focus path of up to four alterations that are thematically cohesive with one another. You can have up to two such foci.

Q: I'm an artificer. Can I cherry-pick the lowest-level version of every spell to make items more cheaply?
A: You can only draw from the spell lists of base classes and domains, or, for a psionic artificer, from the power lists of base classes, mantles, and disciplines. Prestige class spells are not available unless the prestige class is called out in the spell description, as seen with the assassin and blackguard spells in Spell Compendium. This applies to the artificer as well as the chameleon and other, similar abilities.

Q: Can I research spells?
A: Sure. If you're a wizard or erudite, this is probably how you'll be learning a lot of your spells. Use the rules in the DMG (or whatever the PF equivalent is). Tell me what you're trying to research and your rationale for why it should be possible for your class at the level you want it, and I'll adjudicate the result. You still pay the cost regardless of whether your research succeeds or fails. If the spell is on your class spell list at that level already (wizards), spoiler alert, you'll succeed.

Q: How exactly does this world work? Is the timeline altered by our previous levels? Do we know about other players? Are we making decisions for ourselves, or are these benefits applied to parallel universe version of ourselves? Etc.
A: I think it's fine to envision it however you like, but I bet that parallel timeline idea would make for some cool fanfiction. If you'd like to share your idea of what the last year would have been like for the leveled-up version of you, please do!

aglondier

2022-01-01, 03:03 AM

Yes! Another level of Wizard.

First up, Happy New Year everyone.

Isn't it amazing what a year can bring us? For me, it's been getting the resources and equipment together to start a new hobby/occupation...blacksmithing...hopefully it goes well. As for the me below, well, first up I'll be retraining a feat and swapping out a trait that really doesn't work for me. Part the way through the year I hang up my tools, and dedicate myself to spell research. Over the course of the year I will research twenty-seven 1st level spells, to go with the two I get for going up a level.

Alex
Race, Class, and Level: Human (Australian), Wizard (Arcane Crafter) 2
Size, Type, and Alignment: Medium, Humanoid (human), Neutral-ish
Init and Senses: Initiative +0; Perception +0.
AC: 10, touch 10, flat-footed 10.
hp: 10 (2d6-2 HD)
Saving Throws: Fortitude -1, Reflex +0, Willpower +3.
Speed: 30'.
Melee: dagger (-1 melee, 1d4-2 damage, 19-20/x2).
Ranged: dagger (+0 ranged, 1d4-2 damage, 10' range, 19-20/x2).
Spells Known/Spells Prepared:
Acid Splash; Arcane Mark; Bleed; Breeze; Chameleon Scales; Conjurer's Toolbelt; Dancing Lights; Daze; Detect Fiendish Presence; Detect Magic; Detect Poison; Disrupt Undead; Drench; Flare; Ghost Sound; Grasp; Haunted Fey Aspect; Jolt; Mage Hand; Mending; Message; Oath of Anonymity; Open/Close; Penumbra; Prestidigitation; Ray of Frost; Read Magic; Resistance; Root; Scoop; Scrivener's Chant; Sotto Voce; Spark; Touch of Fatigue; Vacuous Vessel;
Arcane Pocket; Celestial Healing; Crafter's Fortune; Snapdragon Fireworks; Unseen Servant.
Brightest Night; Skill Lore; Ward, Lesser; Abundant Ammunition; Blood Money; Comprehend Languages; Cultural Adaptation; Detect Metal; Endure Elements; Expeditious Retreat; Feather Fall; Hypnotism; Air Bubble; Magic Missile; Anticipate Peril; Heightened Awareness; Implant Urge; Longshot; Mage Armour; Magic Weapon; Secluded Grimoire; Sleep; Speak Local Language; Summon Monster I; True Skill; True Strike; Urban Grace; Magic Aura; Disguise Self.
Spells Prepared: Conjurer's Toolbelt; Ghost Sound; Mending; Prestidigitation; Crafter's Fortune; Disguise Self; Unseen Servant.
Ability Scores: Strength 7, Dexterity 11, Constitution 9, Intelligence 16, Wisdom 10, Charisma 12.
Feats: Scribe Scroll, Skill Focus (craft), Secret Capital.
Traits: Duskwalker Agent; Focused Study; Innovative; Spark of Creation.
Skills: Craft (calligraphy) +12, Craft (gunsmith) +9, Fly +5, Knowledge (arcana) +10, Spellcraft +10.
Languages: Common, Celestial, Draconic, Sign-language.

Biscuit, cat familiar (valet). Named mainly so I could make dad's jokes about eating the cat every time the kids asked for a biscuit...

Future build notes: max advance in spellcraft and K(arc), splash extra points across knowledges and crafts, with an eye towards gunslinging at some point in the future. Spell picks for utility in real world and for crafting/enchanting.

Continuing on from last year, I start this year with 36gp 3sp, a partly built wizard's tower and a couple of businesses, earning me 13.9gp per day. I cast 1 spell for sale each week, earning 20gp, and I have a monthly lifestyle expense of 10gp.
My first expense is retraining my feat, then completing the Security Company (the only one of my businesses that operates 7 days a week). By the end of the year I will be earning 71gp 3sp 3cp and 1 Magic capital per 10 days, and have a surplus of 1366gp 2cp and 3 Magic capital saved up for next year.
Mage's Tower (completed 11th October 2022)
- contains a substantial residence, a scriptorium, magical trinkets workshop, luxury goods shop, summoning circle, magical library and classroom for teaching apprentices. Generating gold, Goods, Influence, Labour and Magic as needed. Producing, on average, 20.6 gp per day.

Security Company (completed 20th June 2022)
- with a luxurious office, and 10 teams of upgraded elite guards, it operates year round. Generating gold, Influence and Labour, it generally produces 5.5 gp per day.

Armourer (completed 30th March 2022) and Weaponeer (completed 20th July 2022)
- providing all your custom arms and armour needs. Generating gold, Goods, Influence and Labour. Each brings in 5 gp per day.

Herbalist (completed 9th May 2022)
- herbal remedies and components. Generating gold, Goods, Influence, Labour and Magic. On average brings in 6 gp per day.

Alchemist (completed 6th June 2022)
- alchemical goods and enchantment precursors. Generating gold, Goods, Influence, Labour and Magic. Produces 5.1 gp per day.

Cobbler (completed 17th June 2022)
- bespoke shoes and boots. Generating gold, Goods, Influence and Labour. Usually bringing in 3.4 gp per day.

Woodworker (completed 11th September 2022)
- wooden furniture, toys, and lumber in general. Generating gold, Goods, Influence and Labour. Bringing in 5 gp per day.

Tenement (completed 24th December 2022)
- high density rental housing. Generating gold, Goods, Influence and Labour. Producing 6.4 gp per day.

House (completed 30th December 2022)
- low density rental housing. Generating gold, Goods, Influence and Labour. Producing 2.8 gp per day.

Leyline Tap (completed 24th November 2022)
- a magical array tapping into the magic of the land. Produces (and pays for) 1 Magic capital per 10 days.
Tailor (completed 22nd May 2021)
- custom clothing of very high quality made to order. Earning me 3.6gp per day, and giving easy access to Goods, Influence and Labour.

Mage's Tower - Scriptorium (completed 29th August 2021)
- professional scribes and illuminators produce scrolls and manuscripts. This section of the future tower earns 3.6gp per day, while giving easy access to the all important Magic resource.

Mage's Tower - Magical Trinket Workshop (completed 10th December 2021)
- a small store producing trinkets and novelties of a magical nature. This section of the future tower earns 4.3gp per day.

Security Company - hiring
- a small company providing local security services. Despite just opening it is already bringing in 2.4gp per day.If anyone is interested, I have a spreadsheet with my daily downtime activities plotted out.

*sigh* still 1 more year until I can actually craft some decent magic items...

Hurnn

2022-01-01, 03:19 AM

Still druid I see no reason to change.

Jervis

2022-01-01, 03:50 AM

13 Con
12 Wis
11 Int
10 Charisma
9 Dex
8 Strength

Class: Factotum

Feats: Shape Soulmeld (pauldrons of health), Able Learner

Skills: Bluff 4, Sense Motive 4, Disguise 4, Spellcraft 4, UMD 4, Autohypnosis 4

Aiming for chameleon bois

Troacctid

2022-01-01, 04:04 AM

but for right now, I just want to rush that virus immunity without being LE.
Shape Soulmeld (pauldrons of health) could do it with just a feat, but you'd need 13 Con.

Jervis

2022-01-01, 04:15 AM

Shape Soulmeld (pauldrons of health) could do it with just a feat, but you'd need 13 Con.

Oh, in that case I’ll change my lineup then. Thanks

H_H_F_F

2022-01-01, 05:02 AM

Happy new year, guys!

I'll take my second level as a druid. Usually not very exciting in D&D terms (no new feats, no new spell levels, etc), but woodland stride makes for a way better ability IRL than in D&D. Excellent for exploring, wonderful for trekking (if I ever get to go abroad again). Crowd walker would be slihhtly more useful at the day to day level, I guess, but not worth it IMO (unless it works on traffic).

Last year I chose to let my physical attributes take a hit. Well, I sure did pay for it with a shoulder tendon issue that will not go away. Hopefully next year it will be forgotten.

I'll up each of my skills by 1 point, sense motive is still cross class so it only goes up by 0.5 points.

See you all in 2023!

MinimanMidget

2022-01-01, 05:41 AM

I'll take a Warlock level.

Human Psychic Rogue 1/Warlock 1
Str 9, Dex 12, Con 11, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 8
Skills: Autohypnosis 4, Concentration 4, Hide 5, Listen 5, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 4, Sleight of Hand 4, Spot 5
Powers known: Compression (no PP to use it with, though)
Invocations: Spiderwalk
Feats: Able Learner, Point Blank Shot

Promethean

2022-01-01, 05:51 AM

Human Wizard.

Going to take Able learner and Jack of All trades.

My stat are
STR:13 (I exercise)
Dex:9 (Spastic monkey reflexes)
Con: 16 (Rarely sick, and even then, never been sick longer than a day)
Wis: 6 (Was born Socially inept and had to dig my way out with skill points)
Int: 18 (I took an IQ test, I did Very Well)
Cha: 12 (I'm sometime funny)

Skills: Diplomacy 1, Sense Motive 2, Knowledge(Academics) 4, Knowledge(science) 4, Knowledge(Arcana) 4, Knowledge(trivia no one cares about) 4, Concentration 2, Profession(author) 1, Spellcraft 4, Decipher script 2,

I should honestly have a -2 for Knowledge(Culture & Social trivia), but the system does not allow for that(I think, could be a "flaw").

Spells: No clue. I'll have to come back to this.

H_H_F_F

2022-01-01, 06:00 AM

Malphegor

2022-01-01, 06:30 AM

suppose I better carry on with sorcerer I guess!

Quertus

2022-01-01, 06:45 AM

Continuing with Arcane Spellcaster.

Having obtained the peak of abilities possible in this e7 world as a bonus, I expect that any others like myself might be pretty obvious by now just on skill alone.

*looks around*

“All right, who’s the wise guy who took max ranks in ‘craft (disease)’?”

Stoic

2022-01-01, 08:39 AM

Another level of Wizard.

... More info to be posted later.

SirNibbles

2022-01-01, 09:04 AM

I can finally take my first level of Tattooed Monk with the Crane Tattoo.

The disease immunity I've been working towards for years seems really useful now.

Archivist 1/Mystic Ranger 4/Tattooed Monk 1.

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-01, 02:45 PM

Continuing my build from last year (Sha'ir 3), I take 1 level of Durthan. I put my ability increase into Cha (14), 1 skill point into Concentration, 2 in Knowledge (arcana), and 1 in Spellcraft. I learn Light, Alter Self, and the PHB II version of Master's Touch (or Share Talents if it isn't available).
After a discussion with Troacctid in this thread, it turns out that Wedded to History doesn't actually negate ageing. I'll be retraining that then, and relying on Steal Life at high levels to stay alive in the long term. She also confirmed that Dragonmarks are available. I therefore retrain Wedded to History to Eschew Materials, intending to take Least Dragonmark of Making (Make Whole 1/day) at level 6 to be able to cast Summon Marked Homonculus to avoid the "choose between spending your life crafting or spending your life having fun and earning XP" dilemma.

I would argue that Ireland fits Rashemen thematically (Rashemen definitely feels pseudo-Celtic as much as anything, IMO), and that thus I can qualify + use Place Magic while in Ireland.

My character sheet as it currently stands (Sha'ir 3/Durthan 1):

Current: Sha'ir 3/Durthan 1
HP: 13 (4d4, rolled) Initiative: +0 BaB: +1 Melee: -2 Ranged: +0 Saves: Fort +1, Ref +0, Will +7
Stats: Str 8, Dex 9, Con 10, Int 12, Wis 11, Cha 14.
Skills: Bluff 0 ranks (+5), Concentration 7 ranks (+7), Diplomacy 6 ranks (+12), Knowledge (arcana) 3 (+4), Sense Motive 5 ranks (+10), Spellcraft 7 ranks (+8)
Feats: Silent Spell, Eschew Materials, Flaw (noncombatant), Improved Counterspell, Flaw (vulnerable), Iron Will, Craft Wondrous Item (DMG2 Signature Trait: Fashionable).
Special: Summon Gen Familiar, Recognize Genie Works, Place Magic.

Spells known:

Detect Magic, Daze, Ghost Sound, Launch Item, Light, Mending, Prestidigitation
Disguise Self, Charm Person, Scholar's Touch, Unseen Servant
Alter Self, Master's Touch (PBH II)

Languages: Common, Terran. Familiar: Earth Gen.
Gear: Possum Pouch, Shiftweave, Helpful Headband, Amazing Amulet, Glorious Glove, Shawl of Bewitching (grants +5 to Bluff and +1 enchantment CL), Slippers of Spider Climbing (Spider Climb up to 10min a day). Fortifying Bedroll (once every 38 hours, get a night's sleep in one hour!).
Familiar's Gear: Spidersilk Pendant (casts Web 1/day at CL 3).

Personal item descriptions:

Helpful Headband : +5 Sense Motive, +5 Spot against Disguises, CL 4 Hat of Disguise. Current item value is 13 950gp.
Amazing Amulet : Amulet of Tears that also grants an untyped +2 Diplomacy and -2 Bluff, as well as a terrible 3/day sanctuary effect I won't ever be using. Current item value is 3 950gp.
Glorious Glove : This +1 gauntlet bestows a +1 initiative bonus. It also senses any creature within 120 feet who intends harm to the possessor, mentally alerting her of the danger from an unfriendly creature. (It does not however give any other clue to the identity of the threat). Twice per day as a swift action, it also adds +2CL to a first-level arcane spell cast in the same turn. Current item value is 10 750gp.

MIC rules for stacking additional properties require me to keep track of the combined item's value, just in case I want to further improve them in the future. To do so, "use the base price of the most expensive item, and 1.5x the base price of all other items. Sum them all together and that's the final cost".

Below is a list of the items I plan to craft this year. I'm going with the 20 XP per level per week formula from previous years, but I'm only spending half of the max amount I could get in case I fail to have a lively enough life to reach the optimal XP gain rate, and because I'll use all remaining XP to craft Fortifying Bedrolls for sale to fund my personal crafting (and life). Other posters here seem to be increasingly indiscreet about their magic, so I'll say "**** it" and sell extra life-time to people.

Heward's Fortifying Bedroll (once every 38 hours, get a night's sleep in one hour!). This isn't as good as a Ring of Sustenance, but it's a lot easier to craft. 120XP, 1500gp.
Add a Crown of Steady Rulership effect to my Headband of Disguise. 216xp, 2700gp. Rename it Helpful Headband.
Improve Hat of Disguise effect to CL 4. Costs 216xp, 2700gp.
Chainmail Glove of Taarnham the Vigilant (aesthetically, leaning heavily on the "glove" part of the name and not on the "chainmail" part. Think a silver glove). 400XP, 5000gp.
Add Arcanist's Gloves effect to my Glove of Taarnham the Vigilant. 30xp, 375gp. Rename it Glorious Glove. I'll be using this effect on spells like Unseen Servant or Friendly Face.
Amulet of Tears. 92xp, 1150gp.
Shawl of Bewitching. 140xp, 1750gp.
Add a Medal of Gallantry effect to my Amulet of Tears. 825gp, 66xp. Rename it Amazing Amulet.
Slippers of Spider Climbing. 192xp, 1400gp.
Spidersilk Pendant (for familiar). 87xp, 1080gp.

I have everyday utility magic. I've also got crafting! Awesome! XP will be limited, but it's been confirmed I can't "overspend" XP and am somehow aware of how much I have.

I now have the awesome Place Magic feature, which works very well with the Sha'ir's massive spell list (all wizard spells, and no spellbook limitation). As long as I'm in Ireland, I should be able to get around the "must have seen a spell to retrieve it" limitation. This is when this build really begins to shine, with access to every wizard spell in the game without compromising on social skills! Here it is, as clarified on page 47 of Unapproachable East:

Hathrans and durthans possess a special bond to the land of Rashemen that lets them draw upon the power of the spirits to cast spells without preparing them. When a hathran or durthan uses place magic, she can cast any arcane or divine spell known to her. (Spells on her hathran or durthan spell list can be cast as either arcane or divine spells, as she desires.) In effect, she can use any spell on any of her spell lists when she wishes, as long as she is within the borders of Rashemen. A place magic spell uses an unassigned spell slot of the appropriate type (arcane or divine) and level. If the caster does not have an open spell slot, she may spontaneously lose a prepared spell of the appropriate type and level to cast her place magic spell. Using place magic takes longer than casting a spell normally; any spell that takes 1 standard action to cast requires 1 full round to cast with place magic. Spells with casting times longer than 1 standard action simply add 1 round to the casting time.

Plan:

At level 5, take Cloistered Concept Cleric with the Magic domain, and Healing and Knowledge Devotion. +2 Diplomacy, +5 Knowledge (arcana), +1 Spellcraft. Everyday divine spell prep is Create Water, Guidance, Purify Food and Drink, Endure Elements, Magic Aura. Meanwhile Healing Devotion can heal me of 20 HP five times a day, and can be used to heal others by touch.
At level 6 (so in 2024) take 1 level in Dweomerkeeper. Feat should be Least Dragonmark of Making (Make Whole 1/day) to open up Summon Marked Homonculus. +2 Concentration, +1 Diplomacy, +1 Spellcraft.
Levels 7, 8 and 9 are also Dweomerkeeper levels. Mantle of Spells choices are Alter Fortune, Celerity. Feat should be Leadership, picking someone I care about as my cohort as Troacctid has confirmed they'll level too when my Leadership cap goes up. At every level, raise Concentration, Diplomacy and Spellcraft by 1. Also spend a cross-class rank in Bluff.
Levels 10 and 11 should be Incantatrix, to get optimal Mantle of Spells choices. Take Extend Spell as a bonus metamagic feat. I now no longer need Silent Spell and can retrain it into something like Great Diplomat for an extra cohort. Lose access to Evocation because losing Necromancy means losing Extract Gift and Steal Life, Enchantment is required for Mindbender later, and Illusion's versatility sounds useful during downtime. Take Intimidate now that it's a class skill (if only for easier Mindbender entry later). At every level take 1 rank in Concentration and Spellcraft, and 2 ranks in Intimidate.
Levels 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17 are Dweomerkeeper levels. The Supernatural Spells will be useful if/when I get 9ths and can replicate Body Outside Body, and in the meantime they allow me to ignore all those difficult XP and M/F components. Mantle of Spells choices are Greater Dispel Magic, Limited Wish, Polymorph any Object. Take the Divine Defiance feat and the Undead Leadership feat (taking a living cohort, requires Knowledge religion 1). At levels 12, 13, 15, 16 and 17, take 1 rank in Concentration, Diplomacy and Spellcraft, as well as a cross-class rank in Bluff. At level 14, take 1 rank in Concentration, Diplomacy, Knowledge (religion) and Spellcraft.
Level 18 is Mindbender. Take Mindsight at 18. Take 1 rank in Bluff, 2 ranks in Diplomacy, and 1 rank in Spellcraft.
Levels 19 and 20 are Incantatrix again. Get a bonus metamagic feat at 20 (Persistent Spell). At each level, take one cross-class rank in Diplomacy, and 1 rank in Concentration and Spellcraft.

According to the MIC, adding a specific magic item's effect to a preexisting specific magic together (except those on MICp234) costs [full price of the added power] + [half of the price of the added power OR half of the price of the existing item, whichever is cheaper]. This is the market price, so you'll be halving that number to craft the combined item, as normal. However nothing is said about how this modifies the cost of the final product, which is relevant if you want to add a third effect to it later. Here, I used [full cost of adding the second effect] + [cost of the original item].
Furthermore, table 6-11 on MICp234 does not include CL minimums to upgrade items. I'm waiting until I meet the CL of "normal" items providing these benefits.
The above rules are for combining items. Improving items simply costs the price difference between the old and new version of the item.

loky1109

2022-01-01, 03:57 PM

First level expert.
Don't know about stats, feats, and skills.

Jack_Simth

2022-01-01, 04:32 PM

Continuing with Oracle. Waiting on the captone....

Troacctid

2022-01-01, 04:54 PM

Some questions for Troacctid :

Can I modify the basic appearance of magic items? For example making a Hat of Disguise be a headband, etc.
I messed up my languages last year. Can I retrain Ignan into Terran? My familiar is an Earth Gen, after all, it makes more sense for me to speak Terran.
Can I make a Mage Hand for my Gen familiar, even though I don't have an elf hand but do satisfy all RAW prerequisites?
Can I add a Tunic of Steady Spellcasting (MIC, 144) effect my to Shiftweave? It's a torso slot item.
Similarly, what slot are Vestments of Power? (Yes I've started plotting out what I can craft when).
I'm using fractional BaB and saves, and I think I didn't mess up the methodology. Any objection?

1. Yes.
2. Yes, in fact I believe the retraining rules allow you to retrain two languages at once if you like
3. If you can't find a genuine elf hand, store-bought is fine. :smallwink:
4. Items in the same slot can be combined.
5. Vestments default to torso, per MIC.
6. Campaign-level variants from UA are not in use.

Place magic says it works on spells that are known to you, so I'm not sure it'll do what you want, although it is pretty strong either way.

H_H_F_F

2022-01-01, 05:08 PM

First level expert.
Don't know about stats, feats, and skills.

Why expert, Loky? If you want access to all skills, at least go factorum or something, no?

Talwar

2022-01-01, 05:17 PM

It's a toss-up as to whether I did more barding than rangering this year, but I think I'll go to Ranger 2/Bard 1.

I'd started this as 3.5, but have much easier access to PF materials these days, so will work with PF from here on out.

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-01, 05:25 PM

5. Vestments default to torso, per MIC.
Thank you for responding! Being able to merge that effect with my Shiftweave will be a relief, and simplifies my plans.
On the other hand, this does reveal a slight error in your fantastic Google Sheet with useful items which I frequently use : it has Vestments of Power as Body slot items for some reason.

I've also gotten rid of the fractional BaB and saves. It seems I'll have decent-ish Fort eventually, good Will, and terrible Reflex saves. This does make me regret picking Wedded to History (Wanderer) and not Wedded to History (Survivor) - I'm going to end up with very high Will saves, so being able to use them instead of Reflex a few times per day would be nice. Can I retrain Wedded to History (Wanderer) into Wedded to History (Survivor), or is that RAW-impossible?

Place magic says it works on spells that are known to you, so I'm not sure it'll do what you want, although it is pretty strong either way.
As I'm making a fairly detailed crafting plan, the uncertainty about the effects of place magic is a little limiting. I might end up having to make multiple progressions based on "it works" or "it doesn't", and this will affect spells chosen in future years... I'll admit that I hadn't even considered it could fail, mostly because the wording I saw went "known to her" instead of spells known (this seems as vague as the druid wild shape knowledge requirement) and even specified "any spell on any of her spell lists" as opposed to "spell known". Still, even if I can't replicate spells for myself I can always seek out the more publicly known other arcanists from here and talk/pay them into a demonstration. Or get cohorts with arcane spells, perhaps? And in the long term, there's the possibility that I'll be able to replicate the spells through Limited Wish and view them that way. Would that let me prepare them as a Sha'ir from then on?

Incidentally, making a crafting plan for this is a novel experience, because I can't quite reuse any crafting plans my PCs have used due to constraints like "hiding visible magic", "not needing to focus on combat", "being limited more by crafting time than by XP", etc. I like it! I'm going to be editing my post's crafting plan for a while, but it seems likely I'll end up with a "item worn all the time" category and a "item is worn only when it can be hidden, and even then only for big opportunities" (things like Third Eyes or Masks, for example).

loky1109

2022-01-01, 06:01 PM

Why expert, Loky? If you want access to all skills, at least go factorum or something, no?

It is realistic. )

Asmotherion

2022-01-01, 06:09 PM

And an other level of Wizard for me.

H_H_F_F

2022-01-01, 06:14 PM

It is realistic. )

I understand. Just to clarify though: we aren't picking classes and feats for what we already are. We are adding D&D classes and abilities to ourselves. In other words, we are not representing ourselves, and not replacing ourselves, but augmenting ourselves.

So, in this thread's version of reality, I am still myself and know everything that I know - but I'm also better at writing, have animal friends, can handle the cold better, etc. Oh, also magic I guess.

Cruiser1

2022-01-01, 07:26 PM

Cloistered Cleric seems to be the most logical choice to start out with in real life. :smallsmile: Full access to entire Tier 1 Cleric list without having to worry about filling out or keeping a spellbook, along with spontaneous access to Exalted spells since I'm non-evil. For spells, in real life healing is important (e.g. Cure Light Wounds if I or a loved one breaks a leg) and very useful utilities like Scholar's Touch and Comprehend Languages (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/comprehendLanguages.htm) are available at level 1 too. For fighting, I don't want to have governments arrest and dissect me if I cast a deadly fireball or something with visible magic. Cleric list is great for invisible non-lethal defense in modern society too, e.g. just Command (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/command.htm) a mugger to flee.

For domains, let's go with Trickery (which gives access to Disguise Self (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disguiseSelf.htm) right away, and other useful arcane illusions later) and Spell (which gives Mage Armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mageArmor.htm) right away, and access to arbitrary lower level Wizard spells later). My patron deity is Boccob, who provides both domains.

loky1109

2022-01-01, 07:46 PM

I understand. Just to clarify though: we aren't picking classes and feats for what we already are. We are adding D&D classes and abilities to ourselves. In other words, we are not representing ourselves, and not replacing ourselves, but augmenting ourselves.

So, in this thread's version of reality, I am still myself and know everything that I know - but I'm also better at writing, have animal friends, can handle the cold better, etc. Oh, also magic I guess.

Then I'm Spider-man! )))

Hm... Okay. I'll change my mind.
Illumian Factotum-1 with Able Learner.

Kalkra

2022-01-01, 09:59 PM

I don't think I ever got an answer last year about if you could get psionics with Sculpt Self, which determines whether I can go into Cerebremancer now, or if I have to take another level of Erudite.

Troacctid

2022-01-01, 11:13 PM

Kalkra

2022-01-01, 11:30 PM

See the FAQ.

I did, and it talks about magic items, and I wanted to know if that also applied to psionic items because transparency or something.

Esprit15

2022-01-01, 11:56 PM

Oh, seems I missed two years. Damn, can’t believe I thought I was going to join the military back then. Factotum 5! Opportunistic Piety! That actually kinda fits me these days. I should have most of my skills filling out at this point, and have spent a point to take Japanese as an additional language.

Troacctid

2022-01-02, 01:22 PM

I did, and it talks about magic items, and I wanted to know if that also applied to psionic items because transparency or something.
Then it's not really a thread rules question, it's just a regular game rules question, to which the answer is you can't do it.

Kalkra

2022-01-02, 02:22 PM

Then it's not really a thread rules question, it's just a regular game rules question, to which the answer is you can't do it.

Oof. Well in that case I'm taking another level of Erudite, and retraining something to Practiced Manifester. I'm still retraining my feats from when I was trying to go ScM, but my important feats are now Sculpt Self, Practiced Manifester, and Heighten Power. Honestly, I don't even remember all of my feats at this point, but I know how many total I should have, so I'll just keep retraining every level until all of my feats are ones that I'll use in my current build.

For Sculpt Self, I'm getting anything that grants me at-will spells, which will be useful for fueling stuff with Mind Mage, unless I can sculpt minor schemas, in which case I might go for a few of those for some infusions.

Troacctid

2022-01-02, 03:19 PM

For Sculpt Self, I'm getting anything that grants me at-will spells, which will be useful for fueling stuff with Mind Mage
Mind mage doesn't work that way, I'm afraid.

Kalkra

2022-01-02, 03:38 PM

Mind mage doesn't work that way, I'm afraid.

To clarify, I was referring to the Compensation and Focus of Discipline abilities, which let you expend spell levels to lower the power point cost of powers. If that's what you're saying doesn't work, I don't see why it shouldn't. Also psi-spell feats, I guess.

Troacctid

2022-01-02, 04:31 PM

To clarify, I was referring to the Compensation and Focus of Discipline abilities, which let you expend spell levels to lower the power point cost of powers. If that's what you're saying doesn't work, I don't see why it shouldn't. Also psi-spell feats, I guess.
A spell or power from a magic item doesn't count as a spell or power that you actually have and can cast. You can't expend a scroll in place of a spell slot, for example, or use a power stone to qualify for the 2nd level powers prerequisite of cerebremancer.

Kalkra

2022-01-02, 04:32 PM

A spell or power from a magic item doesn't count as a spell or power that you actually have and can cast. You can't expend a scroll in place of a spell slot, for example, or use a power stone to qualify for the 2nd level powers prerequisite of cerebremancer.

Yeah, but Sculpt Self grants the ability to actually cast the spell.

Troacctid

2022-01-02, 04:54 PM

Yeah, but Sculpt Self grants the ability to actually cast the spell.
An easy mistake to make, but no, they're Su abilities, or, for a custom one, the same as the item it's based on.

Kalkra

2022-01-02, 05:54 PM

An easy mistake to make, but no, they're Su abilities, or, for a custom one, the same as the item it's based on.

The same line that says that they're (Su) abilities also explicitly calls it spellcasting, and in the examples it says that you're casting the spell. Even if it's a (Su) ability, it's still spellcasting. Besides, the MMV said that spellcasting was an (Ex) ability, so I don't think you can really say that spellcasting can't be a (Su) ability. I agree that it's kinda weird, and probably a mistake on the author's part, but that doesn't mean it's not spellcasting.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "the same as the item it's based on". First of all, I wasn't able to find any indication of what type of ability magic items use. In some places they're called spells, and in some places they're called spell-like, but in neither case did it seem like that was referring to the acual technical ability type. Also, I don't know why you would assume that custom prestige race alterations would be different than the examples given, considering that they are just examples. Like, if I spent 4,480 xp to cast Flame Shield once per day as a 7th-level sorcerer as part of the Flame Focus (although a sorcerer would need to be level 8 to cast a 4th-level spell), why would that be different than if I spent 4,480 xp to cast Flame Shield once per day as a 7th-level sorcerer as part of a custom focus?

Troacctid

2022-01-02, 05:58 PM

The same line that says that they're (Su) abilities also explicitly calls it spellcasting, and in the examples it says that you're casting the spell. Even if it's a (Su) ability, it's still spellcasting. Besides, the MMV said that spellcasting was an (Ex) ability, so I don't think you can really say that spellcasting can't be a (Su) ability. I agree that it's kinda weird, and probably a mistake on the author's part, but that doesn't mean it's not spellcasting.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "the same as the item it's based on". First of all, I wasn't able to find any indication of what type of ability magic items use. In some places they're called spells, and in some places they're called spell-like, but in neither case did it seem like that was referring to the acual technical ability type. Also, I don't know why you would assume that custom prestige race alterations would be different than the examples given, considering that they are just examples. Like, if I spent 4,480 xp to cast Flame Shield once per day as a 7th-level sorcerer as part of the Flame Focus (although a sorcerer would need to be level 8 to cast a 4th-level spell), why would that be different than if I spent 4,480 xp to cast Flame Shield once per day as a 7th-level sorcerer as part of a custom focus?
Well, you're welcome to try it.

Kalkra

2022-01-02, 06:06 PM

Well, you're welcome to try it.

Yeah, but you're the stand-in for the GM, so if you say it won't work then it won't work, regardless of whether or not it should work. That's why I was trying to convince you that it should work so that you'll say that it does work and it will work. I'm not actually trying it, because this whole thing is just a thought experiment, and the closest I can come to trying it is telling you that I'm doing it and having you tell me the result, so telling me that I'm welcome to try is kinda silly.

loky1109

2022-01-02, 06:12 PM

It'll have to be regular human, I'm afraid.

First, I disagree. Illumians are 100% humans. They have subtipe.
Second, Human heritage, with Frail flaw.

H_H_F_F

2022-01-02, 06:18 PM

First, I disagree. Illumians are 100% humans. They have subtipe.
Second, Human heritage, with Frail flaw.

Thing is, it is you, except you get new capabilities (and disadvantages, potentially) by gaining access to a D&D class.

Now, I haven't personally met you yet, but I'm willing to bet good money that you weren't born with words around your head.

Granted, that also makes plenty of feats super problematic in this context (Bloodline feats, aberrant feats, etc), but if I was Troacctid I'd just ban those as well.

Karmea

2022-01-02, 06:20 PM

Mystic Wanderer, a familiar would be nice... assuming 3.0 material is ok. If not, another level of Holt Warden.

Troacctid

2022-01-02, 06:23 PM

Thing is, it is you, except you get new capabilities (and disadvantages, potentially) by gaining access to a D&D class.

Now, I haven't personally met you yet, but I'm willing to bet good money that you weren't born with words around your head.

Granted, that also makes plenty of feats super problematic in this context (Bloodline feats, aberrant feats, etc), but if I was Troacctid I'd just ban those as well.
A lot of those feats represent developing new powers or experiencing physical changes, so for the most part they make sense.

Mystic Wanderer, a familiar would be nice... assuming 3.0 material is ok. If not, another level of Holt Warden.
3.0 material is fine where it's compatible. Some of it might not work properly, like 3.0 psionics. I don't think there should be any issue with mystic wanderer though.

H_H_F_F

2022-01-02, 06:25 PM

I'm really looking forward to taking snowrunner next year.

Troacctid, I don't know if this was ever clarified before, but does this thread go indefenitely? Will we be going into epic eventually?

El Dorado

2022-01-02, 08:04 PM

Happy New Year!

This year is level 6! Sticking with transmuter wizard. Keeping knowledge (arcana), linguistics, and spellcraft maxed out.

Human Transmuter 6
Init +2; Senses Perception +6
DEFENSE
AC 10, touch 10, flat-footed 10
hp 26
Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +5
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee club +3 (1d6)
Ranged none
Arcane School Spell-like Abilities (CL 6th; concentration +9)
6/day—telekinetic fist (1d4+3)
Transmuter Spells Prepared (CL 6th; concentration +9)
3rd--clairvoyance, dispel magic, fly (b), sleet storm
2nd--bull's strength (b), detect thoughts, invisibility, levitate, protection from arrows
1st--disguise self, endure elements, feather fall (b), mage armor, obscuring mist
0 (at will)--detect magic, mage hand, mending, prestidigitation
Opposition Schools: Enchantment, Necromancy

STATISTICS
Str 10, Dex (11) 9, Con 11, Int 17, Wis 10, Cha 9 (age-adjusted)
Base Atk +3; CMB +3; CMD 13
Feats: Brew Potion, Combat Casting, Craft Wand (w), Craft Wondrous Item, Scribe Scroll [b], Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
Skills: Fly +9, Knowledge (arcana) +12, Knowledge (geography, history, local) +10, Linguistics +12, Perception +6, Spellcraft +16
Traits: Classically Schooled, Reactionary
Languages: Arabic, Chinese, English, Latin, French, German, Italian, Portuguese, Russian, Spanish
SQ arcane bond (weasel), physical enhancement +2

Alternatively, the secondary build reaches Psion (Telepath) 6. My hero dreams come true.

Human Psion (Telepath) 6
Init +1; Senses Perception +6
DEFENSE
AC 9, touch 9, flat-footed 9 (-1 Dex)
hp 31 (includes psionic body)
Fort +2, Ref +1, Will +5
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee club +3 (1d6)
Ranged none
Powers Known (CL 6th; concentration +9)
3rd--body adjustment, dispel psionics, psionic blast, telekinetic force
2nd--clairvoyant sense, cloud mind, concussion blast, defy gravity, read thoughts
1st--empathic connection, inertial armor, mind link, mind thrust, slumber, vigor
0 (at will)--conceal thoughts, detect psionics, far hand, psionic repair
Power Points per day: 52

STATISTICS
Str 10, Dex 9, Con 11, Int 17, Wis 10, Cha 9 (age-adjusted)
Base Atk +3; CMB +3; CMD 12
Feats: Autonomous, Combat Manifestation, Expanded Knowledge (2), Psionic Body, Psionic Talent
Skills: Autohypnosis +11, Diplomacy +8, Knowledge (psionics) +14, Linguistics +9, Perception +6, Sense Motive +9, Spellcraft +13
Traits: Focused Mind, Reactionary
Languages: Arabic, Chinese, English, Italian, Latin, French, German, Portuguese, Russian, Spanish
SQ mental intrusion

edit: tweaked feats on build. add missing psi-power

thethird

2022-01-03, 05:53 AM

I am a 7th lvl artificer now. If we were using shenanigans I would be building teleportation circles pulling them out of rune domains from divine champions. But shenanigans have been regularly shot down.

As a 7th lvl artificer I do have some fun things going on though. For starters I now have access to Raise Dead. Which is going to be handy if something final happens to a family member.

I have access to teleport (I did some teleport-y stuff before shenanigans were shot down, I do that back again). I am traveling a lot with teleport, which should help on the experience acquisition.

I also have access to lesser planar binding, I am not touching a succubi with a ten foot pole, nor anything intelligent with an agenda. So I am probably getting a Ravid, using it to animate "golems" or stuff you know, for funsies. I probably experiment a lot with it to make sure it's safe to use. Probably not going close to a Nightmare, fun as it would be to play around with astral projection.

At this level I can also craft umbral spies, from forge of war that are amazing. Of course I need the bones of a changeling. Yeah.

White Blade

2022-01-03, 07:28 AM

Human Contemplative Cleric 1 (Pact, Artifice)
Standard Array: 10, 10, 10, 11, 11, 11
Flaws: Shaky, Noncombatant
Feats: Nimbus of Light, Gift of Discernment, Skill Focus (Writing), Craft Expertise
Skills: Diplomacy 4, Craft (Writing) 4, Sense Motive 4, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Knowledge (Nobility & Royalty) 2, Knowledge (Geography 2) Knowledge (Local) 2, Speak Language (Spanish, Mandarin, French, Arabic, Hindi, Bengali)

In Races of Stone, Craft (Writing) check for a novel is specified at DC 15, with a value of 5-15 GP. If that's still the case IRL, I should be able to pump out a 15 GP novel's worth of material every two days - An Epic every week and change, or a Grand Epic every three months. It's a little hard to tell where to peg a Gold Piece IRL, but since I can write a good novel on commission in two days, I should be raking in money hand over fist soon enough.

Nimbus of Light is an exalted feat, but I'm fairly certain that I have never committed a D&D Evil Act besides lying, and it's not clear to me that lying is an Evil act from the various books. At any rate, Gift of Discernment should keep me from doing anything to accidentally screw myself out of my powers. The reason for picking it up, though, is that "All who look upon you know without a doubt that you are a champion of good and are favored by the powers of the Upper Planes" which is obviously something people tend to underestimate in a gaming environment where the upper planes semi-frequently put their thumb on the scale, but would be really really important IRL.

Sense Motive and Diplomacy should smooth my way through life.

StSword

2022-01-03, 07:33 AM

Another level of Chef from Duck and Roll Games' The Flavour Handbook.

Telonius

2022-01-03, 10:57 AM

All right! I'll update this in a bit (at work now); but definitely progressing Eldritch Disciple.

From Last year: Cloistered Cleric 4/Warlock 1/Eldritch Disciple 1

Nonelite array.
Str: 8
Dex 9
Con 10
Int 12
Wis 13->14 (lvl 4 stat bump)
Cha 11

Human
Feats:
1: Extra Turning (fuel for later), Able Learner (I like skill points)
3: Augment Healing (less worrying about injuries)
6: Extend Spell

Deity: Olidammara. Domains: Trickery, Luck, Knowledge (from Cloistered)
Alignment: CN

Skills
Level 1: Know (Religion) 4, Know (Planes) 4, Heal 4, Bluff 4, Diplomacy 4, Decipher Script 4, Concentration 4, UMD 2, Balance 2
Level 2: Know (Religion) 5, Heal 5, Bluff 5, Diplomacy 5, Decipher Script 5, Concentration 5, Know (History) 2
Level 3: Know (Religion) 6, Heal 6, Bluff 6, Diplomacy 6, Concentration 6, UMD 3, Balance 3, Know (History) 3
Level 4: Know (Religion) 7, Heal 7, UMD 4, Know (History) 4
Level 5: Know (religion) 8, Heal 8, UMD 5, Know (History) 5, Diplomacy 7, Bluff 7, Sense Motive 2
Level 6: Know (Religion) 9, Heal 9, UMD 6, Balance 4

Invocation: Beguiling Influence, Call of the Wild.
Gift of the Divine Patron: Fearful Glare.

So, new level: Eldritch Disciple 2.

Current build: Cloistered Cleric 4/Warlock 1/Eldritch Disciple 2.

+1 to Invocation/Cleric casting. No new Invocations this level, but I'm now casting as a Cleric5, meaning 3rd-level spells - and the big personal payoff for Cleric casting. I cast Remove Blindness/Deafness on myself (twice), and never have to worry about glasses or hearing aids again. Also, Remove Disease just as the Omicron variant starts to mess things up. Family and friends are now relatively safe. (Still only 1 3rd-level spell a day, but I can space it out if necessary).

New skill points; keeping up on Know (Religion), Heal, and UMD; and I now have the 5 ranks in Balance to not be flat-footed while balancing.

Level 7: Know (Religion) 10, Heal 10, UMD 7, Balance 5

Elvensilver

2022-01-03, 12:08 PM

Bard for me, which makes me Bard 3/Ranger 1 in Pathfinder. Not a whole lot of new things this level, but I get an additional spell and an ability-score-increase (to be put into intelligence)

Jack_Simth

2022-01-03, 12:47 PM

Switching my plan up slightly... taking Craft Construct now, rather than forge ring. Building me some waxwork creature construct armor. Money should not be hard to come by as a 7th level caster. Greater Hat of Disguise to be someone else, do some charity healing to build a following (on a nice, organized list), charge folks who can afford it.

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-03, 02:29 PM

Kalkra

2022-01-03, 03:17 PM

Okay, having done a bit more research, it seems like the MIC refers to items granting SLAs, in which case they wouldn't be usable for meeting requirements (most of the time), but they still have levels so they should still be usable to fuel Mind Mage abilities.

Also, I never got an answer about whether or not you could sculpt a minor schema.

Troacctid

2022-01-03, 03:34 PM

I understand that custom items are not allowed, and that we must stick to published stuff. However, can I pay to increase the caster level of a published item? Having a Hat of Disguise with CL 4 seems a lot more convenient than one with CR 1, after all.
"A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell." Should be okay. Increase the cost proportionally.

Okay, having done a bit more research, it seems like the MIC refers to items granting SLAs, in which case they wouldn't be usable for meeting requirements (most of the time), but they still have levels so they should still be usable to fuel Mind Mage abilities.
Both psi-spell feats and mind mage class features require you to expend spell slots or prepared spells. You cannot expend charges of magic items. This is in the general rules for psi-spellcasting.

Also, I never got an answer about whether or not you could sculpt a minor schema.
Yes. It's in the FAQ.

Kalkra

2022-01-03, 04:05 PM

Both psi-spell feats and mind mage class features require you to expend spell slots or prepared spells. You cannot expend charges of magic items. This is in the general rules for psi-spellcasting.

Missed that. I guess I'll just have to use infinite pp tricks and a ton of pearls of power and make do with that. Fortunately, it doesn't really matter, because realistically speaking I'm never going to need to cast more than a few high-level spells in a single day. I was mostly just going Mind Mage for the dual progression, with the other stuff just being a nice bonus.

Realistically speaking, all I'm actually likely to ever need is a few skill-boosting spells to make enough money to get whatever I want. I'm not really sure when I'd ever cast anything else, except to make the occasional magic item.

Barstro

2022-01-03, 04:23 PM

Not sure why (or when) I chose what I chose. I’ll give more thought this year.

Troacctid

2022-01-03, 04:35 PM

Not sure why (or when) I chose what I chose. I’ll give more thought this year.
It was in 2016. The original post actually has pretty detailed reasoning! https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=20351566&postcount=55

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-03, 05:28 PM

I've been plotting out my item crafting for the year (only spending half the year's XP, to leave some wriggle room for low XP gain + selling Fortifying Bedrolls for ridiculous sums to rich people who want what are effectively more hours added to their life). However in the process I ran into some RAW questions :

MIC rules for stacking additional properties require me to keep track of the combined item's value, just in case I want to further improve them in the future. I'm determining a combined magic item's value by adding up the gp costs paid to create and improve it, and just doubling them. Is there a better method?
The rules to improve existing items obviously weren't created with combined items in mind. It seems that to improve an item you pay the difference between that item's cost and the cost of the new upgrade, which would effectively make upgrades free if the cost of the item has been increased by adding new properties to it. I've used the common sense method of paying to improve it as if it weren't a combined item (see for example the cost I indicated for the Hat of Disguise CL increase, which uses the 1800gp base price and ignores the far larger cost of the added item properties). Is this required, or should I go full RAW and take the upgrade more cheaply by taking into account the added value from the other property? This is sort of pushing it, but if you're a RAW fanatic AFAIK it should work :D
I won't lie: I find the idea of making Goggles of Night into sunglasses to be quite funny (sunglasses at night, unironically!) so I went with it.
Is there a RAW way to make a magic item set without being able to buy a piece of the set? I'd love the raiment of the four, but the

Kalkra

2022-01-03, 05:33 PM

I won't lie: I find the idea of making Goggles of Night into sunglasses to be quite funny (sunglasses at night, unironically!) so I went with it.

I wouldn't recommend driving with only 60 feet of vision, but if you do, make sure you have the full Blues Brothers outfit and car.

Peelee

2022-01-03, 05:44 PM

Second level of Favored Soul. On top of being a dragon, I think that works out quite nicely.

Spell list (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25330896&postcount=176)

Troacctid

2022-01-03, 05:45 PM

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-03, 05:52 PM

I wouldn't recommend driving with only 60 feet of vision, but if you do, make sure you have the full Blues Brothers outfit and car.
Cars have good headlights anyway. On the other hand, I've had to cycle through country roads without any lights several times this month, and it sucked. 60ft darkvision would have been great there!
Similarly, walking home at night can be not great in city streets/parks without lights. I'd feel safer if I could see in the dark, magic or no magic.
On the other hand, I do have access to the Darkvision spell which lasts hour/level... I'll still be editing that crafting list in the next few days, and I give goggles of night good odds of being removed in favor of something like a mask of silent trickery or a spidersilk pendant.

1. & 2. This is really a simple RAW question, but you use the base price of the most expensive item, and 1.5x the base price of all other items. Sum them all together and that's the final cost.
4. Bonding rituals from DMG2 allow this, as does the Ancestral Relic feat. You could also wish a piece of the set into existence, but that seems like it's a ways off. :smalltongue:
Thanks for replying! And thanks for reminding me that Bonding Rituals exist - I'm going back and rethinking my whole build's feat distribution now...
I'm not too sure I understood how that answered question 2 though?

Jack_Simth

2022-01-03, 06:07 PM

Built up a Character Sheet (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1821577). No items on the sheet, but money wouldn't be a problem in very short order, so I could do all the crafting I'd want.

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-03, 06:14 PM

Built up a Character Sheet (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1821577). No items on the sheet, but money wouldn't be a problem in very short order, so I could do all the crafting I'd want.
We don't seem to have permission to view it?

Jack_Simth

2022-01-03, 06:17 PM

We don't seem to have permission to view it?
Updated permissions.

Barstro

2022-01-03, 07:46 PM

It was in 2016. The original post actually has pretty detailed reasoning! https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=20351566&postcount=55

Unusually well written for me, too. I must have been bored that day.

Looking back; I stand by my reasoning and lament that I did not update every year (hoping OP takes my stated desire for level 20 Alchemist to imply that I would/did take it each year). I’ll continue to take Alchemist.

Seward

2022-01-03, 10:45 PM

OK....well I'm a mid-50s dude prone to developing health problems as I age and with a wife who has a long term chronic disease and a 13 year old dog who has has a bad back and a weird new condition that might or might not count as a disease and who is interested in all of us living as long as possible so...

Much as my recent move into a rural area where we've experienced 4 feet of snow in less than 2 weeks, two power outages, learning to use a wood burning stove during said outages, learning to drive in snow (and dig said car out of snow...all wheel drive doesn't help if snow is deeper than clearance of car....) made me think maybe ranger or druid.

In reality, I gotta go with a Pathfinder Witch. They have Delay Disease, Diagnose Disease as L1 spells (and only they have delay disease as such) and a healing hex. There's a Harrow card variant (Cartomancer) where my deck of cards is my familiar, basically. That's me, I read tarot sometimes and my gaze-hound doesn't need another animal in the house. For my other starting spells, Jury Rig, Comprehend Languages, Unseen Servant. None of the Patrons thrill me, but I'll go with Endurance, mostly for Endure Elements at L2. Cantrips would be mending, guidance prestidigitation (on my list from 2 world magic, below)

Attributes

Str 11 My carrying capacity is in this range.
Dex 8 I am a galoot
Con 9 If this was higher, I might have picked another class.
Int 14 (12+2 human). My highest stat IRL, no question
Wis 13 with age comes wisdom. In my 20s, this would have been my 8
Cha 10 I have skill points in cha skills IRL, but am neither naturally good or bad at this.

Traits: Two World Magic (Prestidigitation is on my spell list), Harrow Chosen (I've got that heirloom deck...but the kind of divinations I do with it aren't short-time-range like Augury, so why not?)

L1 skills - basically stuff helpful for understanding magic, guessing about my patron, healing or my new "natural setting" home.

Heal 1 rank, Kn Nature 1 rank, Kn Arcana 1 rank, Spellcraft 1 rank, Kn Planes 1 rank, UMD 1 rank (hey, a magic item might happen someday in a world that grants levels) (2+2int+1human+1 favored class)

Feats
Extra Hex (Feral Speech - So I could talk to my dog when he's scared, or I could ask him if he is in pain etc).
Believer's Boon - Restoration Domain - remove fatigue 1/day. Incredibly useful. Enough to suck up to a healing deity of some kind, possibly that Endurance patron, possibly somebody else.

Should I remember to do this 4 more years I could actually cure all the ailments we've accumulated. But I'll settle for suppressing the effect on days I roll a caster level check, plus CLW on demand, communication with animals and fatigue removal 1/day. Plus really useful on-demand cantrips. I break things and suck at repairing them and prestidigitation has a zillion uses.

Sorry for lack of formatting. I'm tired and achy from shoveling snow all day and just wanted to get in on the fun. If I really thought I'd remember to keep posting in this thread next year and year after I probably would have gone for a cleric with restoration domain, gambling on getting remove disease in 3 years instead of 5. If I really thought I might go 8 years, doing 3.5 instead and qualifying for 3 Ruathar levels for the doubled lifespan would have been pretty appealing although without actual elves in the world qualifying for said class is probably impossible.

Lans

2022-01-04, 02:48 AM

Another cleric level

Aniikinis

2022-01-04, 05:14 AM

New year, new level and gaining +1 BAB, +1 Fort and Will, a new pact empowerment, a new clause, and a new shape. Decided to bold the changes.

Alignment: NE(CN)
Race: Human(Heart of the Snows)
Class: Avowed(Weaver Pact) 4
Attributes: Str 12, Dex 9, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 13
BAB: +3
HP: 32
Feats: Additional Traits, Intuitive Recitation, Silent Recitation, Point-Blank Shot, Power Attack
Traits: Blood of the Dragon(Low-Light Vision), Pragmatic Polytheist
Flaws: Light Sensitivity
Qualities: Heart of the Snows (-1 temp band in cold climates, +2 on fort vs cold climate effects, slipping and falling, and against trip attempts), Pact (Weaver), Clauses, Aether Pulse, Pact Attunement (Climb speed and silk creation with with varied strand types), Pact Sense (nearby spiders and Detect Magic), Spider Bites (Bite attack with weak dexterity poison, plus dermal plating and minor resistance towards spider venom)
Clauses: I Go Where I Please, Resonant Pulse (M), Vermin Love Me (Spiders), Spider Lord I
Shapes: Aether Bolt I, Aether Breath (cone) I, Aether Burst II

With my new level I grew some nice fangs and a good set of dermal plating. Looks like all of my training with Discount Fireball payed off since I can now hurl it far further before it detonates. I've also learned how to call on some of my patron's more dangerous children to help me from time to time. Additionally, I've figured out my form of immortality, though actually acquiring it will require some changes to my future plans. Not a bad thing, mind you, but it's a little more than just a restructuring. I will need to get my hands on a special kind of far realms symbiote though...

aglondier

2022-01-04, 05:38 AM

So...here we are, gaining levels and growing in power...

...but that rarely happens in a vacuum. Guilds, tribes, clans, academies, colleges, and at the very minimum, parties.

I know geographical location is a limiting factor, but does this interest anyone?

I think I'd be interested in building a Mage Guild in Australia.

Thoughts?

Red Fel

2022-01-04, 09:34 AM

Ah, hindsight. At my last level (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24890834&postcount=151), I took the Inquisitor feat - which is admittedly a prerequisite. However, had I but thought about things, I would have taken that feat earlier, and instead taken the Telepathic Communication Psion ACF at level 5. Alas, it seems Mindsight is out of reach. For now, anyways.

Regardless, here is my previous level:

Red Fel
Psion (Telepath) 5
STR: 8
DEX: 10
CON: 12
INT: 16
WIS: 13
CHA: 14

Feats: Overchannel (Human bonus feat), Psicrystal Affinity (Psion bonus feat); Extend Power; Inquisitor (Psion bonus feat)1
PP/day: 25+62
Powers Known: Attraction; Charm, Psionic; Crisis of Breath3; Demoralize; False Sensory Input3; Inertial Armor; Mindlink; Read Thoughts; Share Pain; Suggestion, Psionic; Vigor.

1 Level 5 includes a bonus psionic feat. I am choosing Inquisitor, to better tell whether people deceive me. Subtlety.
2 INT grants a bonus to PP/day.
3 I gain two bonus Powers. I choose Crisis of Breath and False Sensory Input.
And here's the new one:

Red Fel
Psion (Telepath) 5/ Thrallherd 1
STR: 8
DEX: 10
CON: 12
INT: 16
WIS: 13
CHA: 14

Feats: Overchannel (Human bonus feat), Psicrystal Affinity (Psion bonus feat); Extend Power; Inquisitor (Psion bonus feat); Psicrystal Containment1
PP/day: 25+62
Powers Known: Attraction; Charm, Psionic; Crisis of Breath; Demoralize; False Sensory Input; Inertial Armor; Mindlink; Read Thoughts; Share Pain; Suggestion, Psionic; Vigor.

1 Level 6 includes a bonus feat. I am choosing Psycrystal Containment, for an extra psionic focus.
2 INT grants a bonus to PP/day.
And it begins. Level 6 is a fairly straightforward one, because Thrallherd 1 doesn't progress manifester levels. I get my level 6 bonus feat, and the Thrallherd class feature, and that's about it. My Thrallherd leadership score is my character level, plus my CHA modifier, plus my Thrallherd level, which is 6+2+1=9. That means that all I have is a 6th level thrall, at least so far. This also means that, next year, I suddenly start gathering followers. So that's fun.

I choose Psicrystal Containment for my level 6 feat, because having two psionic foci to expend is always useful.

This is going to be a good year for Red Fel, folks.

Kalkra

2022-01-04, 10:48 AM

Lord Foul

2022-01-04, 10:53 AM

Hmm tricky choices.
do I need to model my stats after what I think they are irl?
if so... 13 12 11 10 9 8
11 strength 12 constitution 8 dexterity 13 int 9 Wisdom 10 charisma and a +2 that could go anywhere but wisdom or dexterity depending on my class choice if I'm being true to real life while sticking to non elite array. If I can move it around, I definitely want at least a 12, preferably a 14 in my casting stat. Those odd numbers are going to bother me... hm. Am I considered to have 1 NPC level before now that incorporates what I already know and can do? Just, one level of expert or aristocrat.
But which class...
bard (pathfinder)is good jack of all trades and both healing and inspire competence would change how I live my life for the better. Plus a handful of other spells and performances and lots of skill points

warlock would give me great magical effects that would again, change how I live my life. Breathing underwater, speaking with animals, reading all languages, all possible at level 1? I'd need to eventually grab one of the melee blast options because my dex is pretty bad. But otherwise solid choice. Could also be great as a 1 level dip.

paladin would only start getting good around level 2-4 but at that point it would be incredible. Furthermore... it would be nice to really know that there's a god and that I'm doing what they want...

witch would use my int, which is my highest casting stat, and has healing hex, a familiar and the celestial agenda patron would get the same bonus of inner peace that Paladin does....

Bard, witch and warlock also get bonus points because familiars are more convenient than a mount, but then I'd have to take a feat to get the familiar except on witch....
tricky choices

Kalkra

2022-01-04, 10:56 AM

do I need to model my stats after what I think they are irl?

No, the modifiers are added to what you have now. In other words, you get +3 to something, +2 to something, etc.

Lord Foul

2022-01-04, 10:59 AM

No, the modifiers are added to what you have now. In other words, you get +3 to something, +2 to something, etc.
Ah! Neat. I can swap strength and charisma then. I'm strong enough for every real world application of effort... the penalty to dexterity and wisdom becomes a bigger deal... considering those are already dump stats

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-04, 11:26 AM

Rereading the DMGII, I've been struck by the hardest build decision yet: what signature trait do I want my Craft Wondrous Item feat to have?

Comfortable seems useful if I intend to wear these items regularly, but I can make that irrelevant by simply making them comfortable in the first place. I'm also organizing my crafting so that combined items all have the form of the most convenient item, which further reduces the need for this.
Clean seems useful for obvious reasons. On the other hand, I've lived my entire life with clothes I had to wash and it's never been a huge imposition. And I do have Prestigiditation now.
Fashionable is pure vanity, but it's also an item effect that's a lot harder to replicate. After all fashion changes with time, but magic items generally don't. And having my items all be appealing would make getting high-price sales easier. As I type this, I'm convincing myself to pick fashionable...

The one magic item I have that I really can't make comfortable without the signature trait is the chainmail glove of Taarnham the Vigilant. I could wait a few years and combine it with a Wand Bracelet, but that's quite a wait and I'm not sure it'd even be possible : although the glove is a wondrous item, it's still a +1 gauntlet. Thankfully that obstacle might be my salvation, as I can take a Bonding Ritual and make it a +1 Morphing Warning Gauntlet (with the OA enhancements for cheap +8 Balance and +10 Move Silently, of course). I'm still reworking my crafting schedule to see how much I can fit in there, as this method removes most prereqs but doesn't remove the gold and xp cost. IIRC Morphing would let me turn it into a poison ring that I could wear comfortably every day, which is a lot better than a big chainmail glove!

Unfortunately earning a Bonding Ritual looks quite hard, especially without enemies to fight. The only ones I could attempt are Ritual of Magic and Ritual of Honor, and those both require me to find someone of CR 4 or higher and fight them. Not impossible (especially as people here are becoming increasingly overt in their magic use, with some people outright selling magical healing and whatnot) but not easy either. Still, it does seem very worth it - and it could be fun! These aren't fights to the death or anything, after all.

.

Not to target any specific poster (I've been rereading old threads and this is more of an overall vibe), but I get a kick out of the fact that every single poster here seems to have above-average Int when they estimate their own stats. And of course there are one or two self-declared supergeniuses posting every year. I wonder what this says about 3.X players?

Kalkra

2022-01-04, 11:54 AM

Unfortunately earning a Bonding Ritual looks quite hard, especially without enemies to fight. The only ones I could attempt are Ritual of Magic and Ritual of Honor, and those both require me to find someone of CR 4 or higher and fight them. Not impossible (especially as people here are becoming increasingly overt in their magic use, with some people outright selling magical healing and whatnot) but not easy either. Still, it does seem very worth it - and it could be fun! These aren't fights to the death or anything, after all.

.

Not to target any specific poster (I've been rereading old threads and this is more of an overall vibe), but I get a kick out of the fact that every single poster here seems to have above-average Int when they estimate their own stats. And of course there are one or two self-declared supergeniuses posting every year. I wonder what this says about 3.X players?

What about the Ritual of Purity or the Ritual of Travel? I mean sure, they wouldn't be pleasant, but they're totally doable without enemies. Also, the Ritual of Blood can be done with an animal, and elephants have a CR of 7. I don't know what level you are, but that might work. There might also be higher CR animals, I didn't look that hard.

Regarding Intelligence, D&D suffers from the same problem that a lot of games do, namely that the numbers are too small. Strength is pretty straightforward in that it has linear scaling. Intelligence is trickier, though. I think I'm smarter than the average person. I also think I'm smarter than some people who are smarter than average. That means that if 10 is average (admittedly not an airtight assumption), my INT is at least 12. If 18 is the theoretical maximum a person can be born with, and training can only simulate a maximum of 10 levels or so (also unclear), that means that all of the smartest people in the world can't have had an INT of much higher than 20. If my INT is 13, and I add another +3 from the non-elite array, that gives me an INT of 16. That means if I cast Fox's Cunning, I'm now as smart as any human who's ever lived. Move over Newton, Einstein, von Neumann. The thing is, all of those people I just mentioned are more than twice as smart as me by every available metric, despite the fact that they can't have more than twice my INT, which would seem to imply that scaling for INT isn't linear, which just makes everything confusing.

Of course, if you look at the world records for strength, is seems like some people have a Strength score of more than 20, but still, even if an average person only has an INT of 8, I can't believe that Einstein wouldn't be at least five times smarter than the average person, giving him an INT of 40, which is impossible no matter how you slice it.

It occurs to me at this point that I don't remember where I was going with this, so I'm gonna stop now.

Lord Foul

2022-01-04, 12:07 PM

To be fair on the above average int bit. There's selection bias at play. This is a math heavy game (wouldn't say math focused, because for me the narrative is more important but still)

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-04, 12:14 PM

What about the Ritual of Purity or the Ritual of Travel? I mean sure, they wouldn't be pleasant, but they're totally doable without enemies. Also, the Ritual of Blood can be done with an animal, and elephants have a CR of 7. I don't know what level you are, but that might work. There might also be higher CR animals, I didn't look that hard.
The Ritual of Travel requires skills I don't have. The Ritual of Blood requires BaB +3 (which I won't have for years, as troacctid banned fractional BaB and saves). Ritual of Purity seems theoretically doable, but in practice it would require some amazing rolls (I have Con +0 and 13HP, so on average I'd succumb to the nonlethal damage long before the 14 days of fasting are up).
I guess I could wait a few levels and attempt the Ritual of Purity when I have more HP? I'm not sure which is riskier though: finding another PC and asking for a spar, or waiting for several more levels without a safety item like the chainmail glove. I am publicly selling very valuable magic items at this point, after all - I'd feel a lot safer with the chainmail glove's "threat detector" feature.

Not only am I not sure where you were going with the Int talk, I'm also not sure I agree with most of the numbers you cited. Why should Einstein have Int 40, and not Int 18 and a pile of ranks in relevant Knowledge/Profession skills? I had similar reactions to most of your other Int-related numbers.

El Dorado

2022-01-04, 12:22 PM

Not to target any specific poster (I've been rereading old threads and this is more of an overall vibe), but I get a kick out of the fact that every single poster here seems to have above-average Int when they estimate their own stats. And of course there are one or two self-declared supergeniuses posting every year. I wonder what this says about 3.X players?

For me, it's less that I think I'm smart and more that I need to boost my casting stat. I got me some spells to cast.

Elrak

2022-01-04, 01:10 PM

Been reading these threads for years but never participated. This year let us finally settle on

Human Cloistered Cleric - Domains Planning, Magic, Knowledge

12 Con
13 Wis
11 Int
10 Charisma
8 Dex
9 Strength

Feats
Human Bind Vestige
1st Bind Vestige, Improved
Bonus Flaw: Spontaneous domains
Bonus Flaw 2: Martial Study Vanguard strike (DS)

Flaw 1: Vulnerable
Flaw 2: Individualist

Wildstag

2022-01-04, 01:13 PM

So I guess in 2020 and 2021, I took levels in Druid, so I'll continue taking levels in Druid. Barb1/Druid3 would give me access to second level spells this year. I guess I'd take an improvement to my Wisdom to bring it to 14! A bonus second level spell for me!

Level 3 Neutral Good Human Barbarian1/Shapeshift-Druid2

Ability Scores:

Strength 12
Dexterity 8
Constitution 10
Intelligence 9
Wisdom 13
Charisma 11

BAB and Saves:

Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+3

Saves: Fort +5, Ref 0, Will +5

Skills: Climb 4 ranks, Survival 5 ranks, Swim 4 ranks, Listen 4 ranks, Knowledge (Nature) 3 ranks, Spot 2 ranks, Profession (Wilderness Guide) 4 ranks

Spells: I would prepare Light, Mending, and Cure Minor Wounds on a regular basis. As a side note, Know Direction is hot garbage. For my 1st level spell, Endure Elements daily, Goodberry before an expedition, and either Produce Flame or Shillelagh (probably the latter) as a combat option.

0th: 1 Light, 2 Mending, 1 Cure Minor Wounds

1st: 1 Endure Elements, 1 Shillelagh, 1 Pass Without Trace

2nd: 1 Tern's Persistence, 1 Primal Hunter

Feats: Extra Rage, Reckless Rage, Wild Cohort

Flaw: Wild (Dragon 329)

Class Features: Fast Movement, illiteracy, Rage 3/day, Nature Sense (+2 Knowledge (Nature) and Survival), Wild Empathy, Shapeshift (Predator Form: Puma), Woodland Stride, Trackless Step

Wild Cohort: Light Horse.

With Predator Form and Rage, I get 22 Strength. Pretty good for level 4 and the non-elite array.

P.S. Would that I knew of Mystic Ranger back in 2016, I would have just gone four levels in that class, getting second level spells this year, but I didn't, so I don't. It is kinda the ideal class for what I'd be doing though.

Troacctid

2022-01-04, 01:24 PM

My Thrallherd leadership score is my character level, plus my CHA modifier, plus my Thrallherd level, which is 6+2+1=9. That means that all I have is a 6th level thrall, at least so far.
That's not correct. With 12 Charisma from the non-elite array, you only have a leadership score of 8, which results in a thrall 2 levels lower than you.

Seward

2022-01-04, 01:39 PM

For me, it's less that I think I'm smart and more that I need to boost my casting stat. I got me some spells to cast.

Objectively I am a lot smarter than I am wise, based on standardized testing, where I went to college, what degree I got and what career I had. And life choices over the years 4prove I'm smarter than wise. But I went with 14 int and 13 wisdom because I really wanted a feat that needed 13 wisdom, instead of 15 and 12, like I originally intended.

Kalkra

2022-01-04, 01:58 PM

The Ritual of Travel requires skills I don't have. The Ritual of Blood requires BaB +3 (which I won't have for years, as troacctid banned fractional BaB and saves). Ritual of Purity seems theoretically doable, but in practice it would require some amazing rolls (I have Con +0 and 13HP, so on average I'd succumb to the nonlethal damage long before the 14 days of fasting are up).
I guess I could wait a few levels and attempt the Ritual of Purity when I have more HP? I'm not sure which is riskier though: finding another PC and asking for a spar, or waiting for several more levels without a safety item like the chainmail glove. I am publicly selling very valuable magic items at this point, after all - I'd feel a lot safer with the chainmail glove's "threat detector" feature.

Not only am I not sure where you were going with the Int talk, I'm also not sure I agree with most of the numbers you cited. Why should Einstein have Int 40, and not Int 18 and a pile of ranks in relevant Knowledge/Profession skills? I had similar reactions to most of your other Int-related numbers.

Wow, I didn't realize the rules for starvation were so restrictive. I mean, in real life a person could survive for two weeks with no food just fine. I also forgot that as a Sha'ir you don't get access to all knowledge skills for Travel.

Regarding skill ranks and INT, I was assuming that even if they did have ranks in all of the relevant skills, they wouldn't have gotten them early in life, and there are stories of various people being ridiculously smart even from a young age, which I'm assuming comes from raw INT rather than skill ranks. I admit, I there was a lot of hand-waving with my numbers and assumptions and whatnot, and also I'm not really sure how any of this stuff works for people who don't have levels, nor am I sure how stuff is mechanically applied to people with levels who have skills from before we got our first level, but the point is that there are some people who are clearly so much more intelligent than other people that it seems like either their INT would be above 18 or the scaling for INT isn't linear. Admittedly, you could probably make it work by making a ton of assumptions about skill ranks and effective levels and whatnot, but it just seems unlikely to me that people would have that many class levels at such a young age. Actually proving anything would be impossible because there's no way to calculate the DC of an intellectual feat, nor is it clear if people usually take 10, or 20, or roll.

Seward

2022-01-04, 02:16 PM

point is that there are some people who are clearly so much more intelligent than other people that it seems like either their INT would be above 18 or the scaling for INT isn't linear.

It helps if you think of intelligence as just the thing that helps with certain sorts of spellcasting and makes some skills easier to use. It might not map too well on what we think of intelligence in the real world. Although...honestly what we think of intelligence here doesn't map that well either.

I am by all ways we can measure (including real life outcomes over a 35 years of professional life) in the top percentile, although when I went to Caltech, there were a few who found it as easy as most of us found high school. I was a "B student graduate in 4 years" kinda guy there.

I can't speak for the folks who were so much smarter than me, but at my level of raw intelligence (and the kind I was born with) it actually doesn't help nearly so much for being better than somebody with similar expertise at a skill, it helps in how fast you LEARN skills. I go from novice to basic competency much faster than most people, even at things like making a pizza really fast at a restaurant job. Getting from competency to expertise is slower, but I tended to get there faster than most of my peers. Then it levels off, although I was still the guy they called in when something truly strange occurred and it needed to be figured out. I also read faster than nearly anybody I've ever met, although ironically as an adult I stopped having time to sit in one place and use my eyes very often, so most of my casual reading is via audio books, as I constantly have jobs that need my eyes and hands but not my mind (chores around the house, driving, shopping etc).

So the D&D model of "more skill ranks for higher int" isn't terrible. You can be competent at a larger variety of things because it takes less time to learn. The model of getting big bonuses to knowledge skills? In my case...I didn't get that part of Int being modeled in D&D. I get a lot of the rest from learning curve and fast reading but a good memory isn't one of the talents I had. I struggled a lot more getting multiplication tables down as a kid than learning algebra, I understood grammar in my Russian class much better than vocabulary and I did a lot better in math olympiads than in spelling bees. Most true expertise has come from experience, not raw intellect, and building a toolkit for problem solving that let me play to my strengths, and compensate for my weaknesses.

It's easier to model real world skills in a system more like Champions, which has a lot of skills and variations that range from "barely exposed to it" to "acknowledged worldwide expert". D&D is granular and skills cover a lot of ground. In real life, skills age out if you don't use them. In college I could do a lot of math I never needed professionally and I lost it. I used to be competent with a violin, now it sounds like a cat being tortured if I try. And lets not talk about physical skills like, say, Jump. Strength loss due to aging doesn't begin to cover the gap between what I could do now and what I could do when I was in my 20s - some of it is aging, some of it is deconditioning, some of it is simply not using those skills in too long and forgetting the knack of it.

Even in Champions or similar systems, a college student doesn't have a skill point spent for each of her classes. What they actually have is something like "Profession, Student of Engineering" which gets to a fairly competent level by senior year, then degrades as they shift to "Profession PhD Candidate" or "Profession Traffic Engineer". All of those will get you a solid grounding in basic sciences without having to buy explicitly physics, chemistry, materials science, statics and mechanics, math etc as separate skills. In D&D, most folks are pretty much good with things like "Profession Peasant Farmer", which gives you aspects of Kn Nature, Survival, Heal, Handle Animal, Craft (various farm things, including a barn, fences etc) maybe even very local versions of Kn Geography, Kn Nobility, Kn Local that impact them personally.

Wildstag

2022-01-04, 03:15 PM

Wow, I didn't realize the rules for starvation were so restrictive. I mean, in real life a person could survive for two weeks with no food just fine. I also forgot that as a Sha'ir you don't get access to all knowledge skills for Travel.

"Just fine" is a stretch. You can survive without food for two weeks. Realistically, you start having serious health conditions and lose the ability to do more than shuffle about in a small area. Your body gets significantly weaker, and you have a lot less blood sugar. Probably some blood pressure changes and complications from rapid weight loss.

My on-hand medicine book is actually a Wilderness Medicine guide, so I can't really explain much more. I could explain affects of dehydration, but I guess I'm not expected to encounter someone who hasn't eaten for a fortnight.

H_H_F_F

2022-01-04, 03:27 PM

"Just fine" is a stretch. You can survive without food for two weeks. Realistically, you start having serious health conditions and lose the ability to do more than shuffle about in a small area. Your body gets significantly weaker, and you have a lot less blood sugar. Probably some blood pressure changes and complications from rapid weight loss.

My on-hand medicine book is actually a Wilderness Medicine guide, so I can't really explain much more. I could explain affects of dehydration, but I guess I'm not expected to encounter someone who hasn't eaten for a fortnight.

I don't know - if you sleep well, aren't cold or overheated and have access to water and electrolytes, 2 weeks is certainly doable. You're not combat ready by any means, but you shouldn't be in too much danger either as long as you're healthy and doing it right.

And even if not "just fine", still far better than taking a fireball in the face. D&D treats starvation weirdly. It should've dealt with it with a system that isn't HP. Con/Dex/Str damage would have been better.

Kalkra

2022-01-04, 03:35 PM

Yeah, "just fine" was maybe an overstatement. But it's certainly doable in the context of the Ritual of Purity, in which you don't need to physically active, and I wouldn't expect any permanent health issues from it, especially if you prepped well before-hand.

Kalkra

2022-01-04, 03:43 PM

*a lot well thought-out stuff*

Using Intelligence as a measure of how easily you learn things makes things a lot better, although it still doesn't explain why it gives a bonus on certain skill checks (but then again, Profession is all Wisdom-based, so that whole thing is arguably not realistic anyway). That being said, I do agree with much of what you've said, and I'll admit that my initial point was maybe not so well thought-out. A lot of it probably stems from the fact that for some reason D&D never gave clear rules for what it means to be good at math, and also from the fact that mixing D&D with reality is bound to cause all kinds of issues, because while D&D resembles reality, the closer you look at things, the less they have in common.

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-04, 06:34 PM

I was thinking much too small! Why struggle to give a gauntlet morphing, when the real quality of life improvement would be no longer having to do all this crafting myself? Troacctid, is a Dedicated Wright a magic item that can be created with a Bond? It's a Construct, but it seems to be created according to magic item creation rules, and both Craft Construct and Craft Wondrous Item are tagged [Item Creation]... By RAW it seems to be a magic item.

Kalkra, regarding intelligence: I think that a lot of what we consider being smart isn't pure Int. Int is memory, learning speed, and (partly) information cross-referencing and analysis. However what we'd consider "genius" includes intuition, good sense, experience, and skill. This all translates as skill ranks in thinks like Knowledge (maths) or Profession (physicist), as well as high Wis. IIRC having high Wisdom means having good intuition, common sense and logic, having internalized effective ways of immediately analyzing the world... IMO Einstein isn't a guy with Int 50: he's someone whose Int and Wis were well above-average, and who had a pile of skill ranks and feats dedicated to maths and physics.

On another note, I want to clarify my earlier comment about "self-declared supergeniuses". I'm not talking about people who take the offered array and max out Int. That's a fair decision in the context of this challenge! I was talking about those who self-describe as IRL Int 18 geniuses, usually to ask for a higher ability array. There were many of these in earlier threads. I've been trying to figure out why we have so many self-declared geniuses in this community, because I'm definitely not taking all (or any) of them at face value.

Kalkra

2022-01-04, 06:38 PM

On another note, I want to clarify my earlier comment about "self-declared supergeniuses". I'm not talking about people who take the offered array and max out Int. That's a fair decision in the context of this challenge! I was talking about those who self-describe as IRL Int 18 geniuses, usually to ask for a higher ability array. There were many of these in earlier threads. I've been trying to figure out why we have so many self-declared geniuses in this community, because I'm definitely not taking all (or any) of them at face value.

Oh. Yeah, I've been trying to avoid thinking about how high my stats were IRL. Certainly not 18 in anything.

Seward

2022-01-04, 08:56 PM

Oh. Yeah, I've been trying to avoid thinking about how high my stats were IRL. Certainly not 18 in anything.

EDIT - math fail. 18 is .5%, 16 is 3%, which messes up my analysis below quite a bit. Think more the kinds of folks who succeed at college sports and are scouted by pros who have stats above 15 in physical, and raise the bar a bit on those SAT and MENSA scores. Still a graduating class of 300 kids will graduate about 10 folks with a 16+ in something, and a 1-2 with 18s. What is actually rare is multiple attributes above a 15.

To be fair to self-described geniuses - an 18 stat is only top 1% of population on a 3d6 scale. It is pretty easy to assign yourself there on Intelligence if you've got a good SAT score, or maybe scored well on a MENSA test. For physical stats, somebody good enough at athletics to get a college scholarship is likely at an 18 in one of those stats, or is Elite Array with top 3 scores in the 3 physical stats.

It doesn't require the sort of folks who I consider actual geniuses (Caltech is trivial. Oh, I needed a PhD to get a promotion so I went back to school for a year and got one, etc. I know a couple. One could beat me in any wargame if I played anything but recklessly. I had to take high risk high reward gambles that maybe 1 in 4 games would give me a win, and usually cause me to be crushed quickly otherwise. If I tried to play it straight he'd grind me into the dust reliably)

Nor is it athletics at the Olympic level. 18 str for example is a clean and jerk of 300lb or 136kg. That's a fairly typical qualifying result to compete - if you weigh only 150lb. Basically lifting twice your weight over your head. For heavier men, the minimum bar to compete was about 200kg (450lb), which in D&D is a 21 strength.

Either example (Tech is Trivial or Olympic athlete with maxxed relevant stat) is more in the top tenth or hundredth of percent in natural ability AND backed by what in D&D would be maxxed skill ranks in the appropriate skills.

Troacctid

2022-01-04, 09:25 PM

Kalkra

2022-01-04, 09:34 PM

Either example (Tech is Trivial or Olympic athlete with maxxed relevant stat) is more in the top tenth or hundredth of percent in natural ability AND backed by what in D&D would be maxxed skill ranks in the appropriate skills.

I don't think there actually are skills for a lot of physical stuff other than jumping, climbing, and swimming although there probably should be. Really, there should be skills for just about everything. Like, how many things are there in which people compete or train where it's based purely on raw ability and not at all on technique. I mean, from a game design standpoint I get why there are relatively few skills, but some of them are so broad, like Perform, and then some of them are super narrow, like Swim. And then you have Profession skills which just kinda overlap with all other skills. This type of thing never really bothered me until I saw these "level in real life" threads, and I started to think about how if I spent a month learning to play violin now I have at least one rank Perform (String), which means I can also play the guitar. And for that matter, is math really a Knowledge skill? Knowledge is more about remembering things that you learned.

Wildstag

2022-01-04, 09:42 PM

Seward

2022-01-04, 09:47 PM

Most games with a skill system have something like Profession skills, to account for real-life non-adventuring (or superheroic or spy or whatever) skillsets.

You can give them to a barely-stated mook and he is still competent at being a file clerk or whatever, a job that might require several "named" game skills if broken down into components.

As a teenager I worked at a pizza place. Being good at that job meant doing nearly everything except bartending, from mixing dough to moving a till along to dealing with irate customers, to balancing a full oven on a busy night and making sure everything got cooked just right without burning or being undercooked. I even had to weild a scimitar-like blade to chop the pizza up. No game system can get into all that minutia.

But it does mean somebody with Profession Smuggler can simulate much of what you might normally do with search or gather information or kn local within the confines of their profession, especially in a city where they actively smuggle stuff in. Most PCs that want to retain such an identity continue to back it up with skill ranks that support the concept as they level but it is fun sometimes to find out that Thog the Barbarian was actually a master inkeeper once, and finds ways to bring that background into the party to make up for very few skill points a level

Troacctid

2022-01-04, 11:04 PM

Looks like we're stuck as all human for the better part of a decade or so.
Speak for yourself, I successfully transmuted myself into a changeling last year.

Jack_Simth

2022-01-04, 11:30 PM

I just realized that I'm one of the higher level druids in these threads, with only one Druid 3 before this.

We're going to need to wait several years before we get to be different races through Reincarnate. And we don't have full level clerics close to getting Restoration to remove that negative level.

Looks like we're stuck as all human for the better part of a decade or so.

I have the option of Restoration next year, assuming we keep up this message board game. And if I get my Spellcraft check up a bit more, I can make Pages of Spell Knowledge of off-list spells, and UMD them. So... not an issue for much longer, if we share a world. Of course, to reincarnate, one must die. And unless you are self-casting via some variation on contingency, you have to trust that the person you cut the deal with will follow through....

Or just wait a bit longer on PaO.

redking

2022-01-05, 01:09 AM

Taking into account the two options for ability score arrays given in the OP, I would have to say that Factotum is the only real option for me. In time maybe go Chameleon if I can get some items to boost Int and Wis.

The skills available to a Factotum are very important in the modern world. The Chameleons floating feat adds extra versatility, allowing for Skill Focus feats to be selected daily, for example.

aglondier

2022-01-05, 01:30 AM

I just realized that I'm one of the higher level druids in these threads, with only one Druid 3 before this.

We're going to need to wait several years before we get to be different races through Reincarnate. And we don't have full level clerics close to getting Restoration to remove that negative level.

Looks like we're stuck as all human for the better part of a decade or so.

Alter Self (or the Greater Hat of Disguise) is only a 2nd level spell. 3rd level caster. Craft Wondrous Item (also 3rd level). Then you can be any race you want to be, at least temporarily. Shouldn't be too much harder to permanently change your species. Planning on becoming a dragon later on myself.

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-05, 02:20 AM

Regardless of whether it is or isn't a magic item, I don't believe any of the bonding rituals allow for the creation of constructs.
If a Construct is a magic item, I can simply make it a combined item! For example I could make a hollow statuette so that it's a "container", make the container some sort of magic bag, and then use the "improve an existing item" function on a Bond to make it a Construct too.

Alter Self (or the Greater Hat of Disguise) is only a 2nd level spell. 3rd level caster. Craft Wondrous Item (also 3rd level). Then you can be any race you want to be, at least temporarily. Shouldn't be too much harder to permanently change your species. Planning on becoming a dragon later on myself.
My own plan to change race is crafting a Phylactery of Change.

H_H_F_F

2022-01-05, 03:58 AM

Question for Tracctid: can we eventually take PRCs with lore requirements that don't work IRL? Looking at Ruathar, specifically.

aglondier

2022-01-05, 04:30 AM

My own plan to change race is crafting a Phylactery of Change.

Nice. 5th ed though. Hmmm... Making a version of that in Pathfinder would be easy enough.

Vizzerdrix

2022-01-05, 07:03 AM

First level of Chameleon. I will be sticking with it for the next decade.

Troacctid

2022-01-05, 07:28 AM

Question for Tracctid: can we eventually take PRCs with lore requirements that don't work IRL? Looking at Ruathar, specifically.
This is in the FAQ. I have to say, though, ruathar's class features just plain don't work in a world without elves. The lore is deeply intertwined with the mechanics. I don't know that you'd be able to find anything analogous in our world.

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-05, 07:36 AM

Nice. 5th ed though. Hmmm... Making a version of that in Pathfinder would be easy enough.
It's a 3.0 item actually.

H_H_F_F

2022-01-05, 08:42 AM

This is in the FAQ. I have to say, though, ruathar's class features just plain don't work in a world without elves. The lore is deeply intertwined with the mechanics. I don't know that you'd be able to find anything analogous in our world.

The FAQ was talking about settings and regions being replaced, this is as you note quite different.

As for the features: if you're willing to let me take it (qnd therefore ignore the lore associated with the class features) nothing but the Word of Friendship presents a huge issue, and I'd be willing for that one to just be useless.

Seward

2022-01-05, 10:39 AM

Brackenlord

2022-01-05, 11:20 AM

Happy new year and new level to all playgrounders!

It was a rough year for me, I'm quite blessed for my family health and good fortunes but the pandemic put a strain on my mental health and made me well aware of struggles I had been sweeping under the rug of my consciousness. Therapy is helping.

According to the spreadsheet, last year I had given some thought to pursuing an ascetic lifepath today I see that the path of the scholar will suit me better.

Truenamer 2

No fancy arcane rewriting of the laws of the universe, I shall learn it's true native language and the universe will listen to me and subtly acquiesce (a few times per day, sometimes after many tries) to my command.

STR 11, DEX 8, CON 12, INT 13, WIS 10, CHA 9

Skill Focus (Truespeak)
Able Learner b

Knowledge Focus (architecture and engineering)

Universal Aptitude
Word of Nurturing, Minor

Telonius

2022-01-05, 11:29 AM

H_H_F_F

2022-01-05, 11:56 AM

The Ruathar feature I wanted was the level 3 one, reduced aging.

Mechanically, the only time I ever took the class IRL, it was more for the fact it had class features compared to pure sorcerer, and the skill list was nice and weapon proficiency didn't hurt on a character that sometimes used whirling blade or wanted to pretend she could do a meaningful AOO vs an untrained grapple etc. That character did find the reduced aging to be a game changer in her retirement plans too. The concept of maybe having a kid in your 30s is less daunting when you age at half the normal rate. You're only effectively in your 40s when they're teenagers, which seems a lot less tiring than doing the same in your 50s. Especially since as a teenager that character had not been, shall we say, dutiful, obedient, tractable or making good life decisions and imagined what her kid(s) might be like.

3rd level is why I want it. I'm very into nights in nature, so the low light vision would be great as well, but I'm mainly there for aging. It doesn't de-age you, but it does seem to stop your aging until you "catch up" - which for me, would mean my aging would halt at 32, and it'd be trivial to get timeless body before I start slowly aging again at 48.

That all sounds worth the delay in druid abilities, especially considering I'll get wild shape in time.

Wildstag

2022-01-05, 02:02 PM

Speak for yourself, I successfully transmuted myself into a changeling last year.

Ah, Shaper of Form shenanigans. Was that in mind when you started the whole idea?

Alter Self (or the Greater Hat of Disguise) is only a 2nd level spell. 3rd level caster. Craft Wondrous Item (also 3rd level). Then you can be any race you want to be, at least temporarily. Shouldn't be too much harder to permanently change your species. Planning on becoming a dragon later on myself.

Bah, item based shenanigans are too unwieldy. Only a permanent transformation matters.

Although I guess we could dragonborn it up in the meantime, just need to find some dragon scales…

And there are Savage Species rituals that might help, but not myself, sadly.

P.S. Ruathar seems fun in principle, but in 60 years I won’t be able to take advantage of the automatic levels, even if fantasy-me will still be getting older. (I’m on mobile but just pretend all this is blue).

H_H_F_F

2022-01-05, 02:16 PM

Ah, Shaper of Form shenanigans. Was that in mind when you started the whole idea?

Bah, item based shenanigans are too unwieldy. Only a permanent transformation matters.

Although I guess we could dragonborn it up in the meantime, just need to find some dragon scales…

And there are Savage Species rituals that might help, but not myself, sadly.

P.S. Ruathar seems fun in principle, but in 60 years I won’t be able to take advantage of the automatic levels, even if fantasy-me will still be getting older. (I’m on mobile but just pretend all this is blue).

I mean, IRL us get no benefit here anyway, right? Just like it's nice to think about changing into a wolf, it'll be nice to think qbout my fantasy self having a 32 year old body when I'm 50...

Btw, you can type [color=blue] and then {/color] when on mobile.

Windcaller

2022-01-05, 03:32 PM

I read some comments about changing race, so is there any way I could be turned into an Elan?

Troacctid

2022-01-05, 03:40 PM

Ah, Shaper of Form shenanigans. Was that in mind when you started the whole idea?
Of course. That and the incredible powers of wealth generation. And PAO.

I read some comments about changing race, so is there any way I could be turned into an Elan?
Sure, you just need three levels of aberrant paragon followed by a level of shaper of form, or, alternatively, a wish spell.

H_H_F_F

2022-01-05, 03:44 PM

So... yes/no on Ruathar?

Troacctid

2022-01-05, 03:56 PM

So... yes/no on Ruathar?
As with any setting-specific requirement, it needs an appropriate adaptation, since there aren't any elves here. You'd need to earn the respect of a similarly long-lived, low-light-visioned people and be accepted into their culture. I'm not aware of any human culture that fits this bill.

Seward

2022-01-05, 04:11 PM

There are some cultures that seem to live longer but yeah, none of them also have lowlight vision or a cultural weapon mix. Also they tend to live longer as old people (ie living to 100 instead of 75, but old all the same) not as 75 year olds with 50 year old bodies.

Plus getting that L3 benefit would probably involve living in their climate, with their habits of exercise and diet which might make it not worth it to most of us :) Even assuming such cultures are real and not basically urban legends.

H_H_F_F

2022-01-05, 04:11 PM

As with any setting-specific requirement, it needs an appropriate adaptation, since there aren't any elves here. You'd need to earn the respect of a similarly long-lived, low-light-visioned people and be accepted into their culture. I'm not aware of any human culture that fits this bill.

got it, thank you.

I don't suppose helping bowhead whales would count?

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-05, 04:12 PM

I read some comments about changing race, so is there any way I could be turned into an Elan?
Another way to get immortality is to turn into a Killoren. This can be done with Shaper of Form if you're already a Fey. The easiest way to become a Fey is to take the Half-Fey Transition Class (it's explicitly a template you can obtain after birth, by meditating in Fey-touched places). IMO this is better than becoming an Elan, as Killoren is a better race and Half-Fey Transition Class grants wings and a pile of decent SLAs instead of Aberrant Paragon's fairly unpleasant requirements (follower of the Dragon Below, physical changes, becoming super creepy, etc).

My personal build just takes Wedded to History (and will get Steal Life at high level anyway). It seems like an easier way to defeat ageing.

H_H_F_F

2022-01-05, 04:20 PM

Brackenlord

2022-01-05, 04:22 PM

got it, thank you.

I don't suppose helping bowhead whales would count?

The class adaptation would have a different name then.

What is the word for friend in whale?

Edit:

Hey, if I don't get to be an elf friend just because there are no elves, you don't get to meditate in the places of the non-existent fey!

Seriously now, wedded to history would have to retroactively change your life. I considered it last year. Wouldn't work.

Fairy rings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy_ring) are a thing already.

H_H_F_F

2022-01-05, 04:29 PM

The class adaptation would have a different name then.

What is the word for friend in whale?

אווווווו אוווו אווווווווווווו

Fairy rings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy_ring) are a thing already.

Well, so are legends of elves, of course. The issue is whether or not this is actually a place of real fey magic. If that isn't an issue, I'll just go hang out with Orlando Bloom.

Troacctid

2022-01-05, 04:52 PM

It's not fey-touched places, it's sylvan places! Very different. We have lots of sylvan places.

The actual useful distinction though is that half-fey doesn't involve any interaction with fey or fey culture—lore-wise, it's just a fancy fairy version of ordinary sorcery. Most "Fancy Version of Sorcerer" classes are easy to adapt because they can represent simply developing that power as part of leveling up, just like sorcerer. Heir of Siberys and jade phoenix mage are good examples. No significant adaptation is needed because the only way to tell whether you have the bloodline for a powerful dragonmark or the spirit of a jade phoenix is to take the class, which then proves that you were eligible all along.

On the other hand, classes and feats that play heavily into a particular culture or draw from racial abilities, well, those are a little trickier. Ruathar, skypledged, stoneblessed, and cabinet trickster are examples of this.

H_H_F_F

2022-01-05, 05:13 PM

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-05, 05:28 PM

Some more thoughts on Half-Fey into Shaper of Form (Killoren) :

This presumes that Shaper of Form doesn't interact with Templates. If you automatically lose your Template, I suppose you could argue the effect fails as you're no longer a Fey at the crucial moment. A slower method that loses fewer levels is simply getting high-level spells and using Steal Life + Greater Restoration (in my case, available at high levels through Supernatural Spell + Miracle). This lets you get younger without permanently harming anyone, and finding someone who will consent for a painful but ultimately harmless procedure is fairly easy when you have 9ths. There's bribery, high-level Divinations to find someone who'll enjoy it, etc. Regular use of Steal Life arguably makes you evil (evil magic emits Evil Radiation or something?) but that can be counteracted by regularly using Good magic.
If Shaper of Form makes you lose your Half-Fey Template, it might not make you lose your Killoren race. If the effect is instantaneous and you lose the Half-Fey Template the moment you become a normal Killoren, you don't lose your new race and immortality as you don't need to constantly qualify for it now that the instantaneous effect is over.
If Shaper of Form makes you lose your Templates and this breaks qualification and makes the process fail, another way to get the Fey type would be to do a Bonding Ritual to craft a Wish item. Your main constraint here would be the first post's rules regarding your ability to stockpile XP (you need enough to make the bonded item in one go), but that's doable after a few years. The easiest item to get seems to be a Luck Blade with 3 wishes. This does sort of make Shaper of Form useless though - just use the Wishes to turn into a Killoren and call it a day.

But honestly, the biggest obstacle to Shaper of Form is the story prerequisite. If Troacctid didn't seem fine with everyone being visited by mysterious spirits of form, I wouldn't expect this sort of scheme to work. But she does, so why not? It's a cool PrC!

Seriously now, wedded to history would have to retroactively change your life. I considered it last year. Wouldn't work.
A young immortal is still immortal! Some of the Wedded to History descriptions don't necessarily mean you're thousands of years old. See this text from the "Survivor" one: "Too weak, too slow, too unfit. You have plowed through the decades or even centuries with an uncanny fortitude". This could literally be true of a very healthy twenty year-old!

Kalkra

2022-01-05, 05:57 PM

I said WHALEFRIEND!

I mean, yeah, I get the logic, I wasn't being completely serious. You're the boss. I guess I'll just have to stop aging at 40, unless someone has a suggestion that would not involve changing my body, dying, doing evil stuff, etc.

As mentioned above, Savage Species has rules for changing races. Specifically, there's the Ritual of Unlearning which could turn you into an elf at the cost of 7,000 gp and one class level. I'm not actually sure how the class level thing would work exactly, but it seems like the next time you would level up, instead you turn into an elf. The ritual requires a 7th-level caster, which we'll have some of in a year or two. It's not clear if you can do the ritual on yourself. There's also the Ritual of Vitality which costs some xp, but takes effect immediately. Also, at much higher levels you can change your species with Wish, and potentially even gain only some characteristics of the desired race, although that gets iffier RAW-wise. Also, there's Reincarnate, which in addition to being able to turn you into some longer-lived races (plus whatever is in the "Other" category) resets you to young adult age. Of course, it doesn't work on people who died of old age, so when you get old have somebody murder you, then Reincarnate you.

Actually, the whole "old age" thing always bothered me. Do people in D&D just drop dead when they hit their maximum age? Because age doesn't actually kill people in real life, it just makes it easier for other things to kill them.

I know you said you didn't want to change your body or die, but changing into an elf is a pretty minor change, and is dying in order to be reincarnated really that bad?

H_H_F_F

2022-01-05, 06:15 PM

I know you said you didn't want to change your body or die, but changing into an elf is a pretty minor change, and is dying in order to be reincarnated really that bad?

Yes. I'd rather be forty than change into an elf, and reincarnate and similiar magic doesn't by itself answer questions of identity and self when divorced from the cosmological context of D&D. However, keeping this discussion going might at some point steer into forbidden subjects, so we'll have to stop it here.

Thanks for your help!

Eldest

2022-01-05, 06:41 PM

In 3.5, I'll continue to advance in factotum. Level 6 factotum after having retrained last year from bard to factotum gets me... a +1 to BAB and Reflex saves.

Wow.

Next year should be nicer at least? Really, two years from now is 3rd level spells and Cunning Surge, I can think of few levels that are more exciting. But they can't all be dramatic. Skills wise, I think I continue to focus on knowledge, social, and stealth skills heavily. Probably take Knowledge Devotion as the feat for the level: I've never been a huge fan of the infinite Font Of Inspirations, so we'll live on what the Factotum gives us naturally here.

EDIT: For some reason I thought 3.5 did allow for retraining, all of that is delayed by another year. Ah well. Probably more excited about the Pathfinder build anyway: less fiddly bits and a clear goal.

In Pathfinder (and I have to specify Pathfinder 1e, now, huh), continuing on the bard levels. Bard 6 gets me another second level spell known: Alter Self, Gallant Inspiration,and Detect Thoughts seems like a good array at this point: Glitterdust comes to mind as the fourth, here, adding some ability to blind, flee, and deal with anybody invisible who's decided to do anything rash. The more important things to pick up here are class features: the class offers access to Suggestion, now, and I also get a Versatile Performance to add another set of skills to my repertoire.

With last year's goal being a home by the sea and taking up gardening, I think I'd have managed to convince enough fools to part with their unneeded money (I'm not cruel, I won't steal from those who need it) to get someplace nice. Maybe start to expand that plan a bit, make a nice bed and breakfast to be a neutral zone for folks who've also got some levels under their belt. I can't enforce that by strength of arms, mind, but a neutral ground is important and you don't want to tick off the wizard's second or third best friend. And I am damn charming.

H_H_F_F

2022-01-05, 06:55 PM

Is cunning surge really that important in day to day life? I guess it matters if one of the high level casters here decides to hunt you down for some reason.

I like the idea of a neutral zone. A place for all the power hungry folk here to meet up and avoid blowing the world up.

I'll just stay here, hanging out in the wild with my wolf buddies and casting goodberry to feed those who need it and cure minor wounds at the ER. Probably saved a lot of car crash victims by now.

Aaaaand now I'm sad.

Jack_Simth

2022-01-05, 07:39 PM

Is cunning surge really that important in day to day life? I guess it matters if one of the high level casters here decides to hunt you down for some reason.It's useful any time you are in a hurry. Goes well in football, rugby, hockey....

Windcaller

2022-01-05, 10:36 PM

Here I go, better late than never. I'm just curious about how it would work for me to add spells to my spellbook. And could I succeed researching spells not from my class list? I'm a Storm Domain Wizard, so I'm considering learning some exotic spells with the air descriptor. And maybe, after many many years, researching an arcane version of Tornado Blast (from XPH).

Complacent Human (+2 Int), 0 XP
Wizard 1 (What else can I say? Wizards are awesome.)
13 Str
10 Dex
11 Con
14 Int
8 Wis
7 Cha

Wizard class features:
*Domain Wizard: Storm Domain (UA)
-Familiar: Cat (6 Int, Empathic Link, Share Spells, grants Alertness, Improved Evasion, +1 Natural Armor)
-Scribe Scroll (Feat)
Spells
-Cantrips: 3
-1st: 1+1+D
Spellbook (16/100):
-Cantrips: Detect Magic, Read Magic, Mage Hands, Message, Light, Amanuensis, Ghost Sound, Detect Poison, Silent Portal, Ray of Frost(domain)
-1st: Obscuring Mist(domain), Comprehend Languages, Endure Elements, Scholar's Touch, Master's Touch, Sleep

Feats/Flaws
-Flaw: Pathetic (With the nonelite array, I think this will be useful. And lowering my charisma will turn from "slightly arkward around strangers" to "complete social failure".)
-Flaw: Inattentive (I'm already quite inattentive IRL. And seems like this will get even worse!)
-Bonus: Able Learner (I'll probably multiclass in the future)
-Bonus: Power Attack (Gishes are cool.)
-Level 1: Combat Casting (Yes, Abjurant Champion)
-Wizard 1: Scribe Scroll

4 HP (1d4+0)
Fortitude: +0 (0 base, +0 Con)
Reflex: +0 (0 base, +0 Dex)
Will: +1 (2 base, -1 Wis)

BAB: +0
Grapple: +1 (+0 BAB, +1 Str)
Attacks:
-Dagger(melee): +1 to hit, 1d4+1 damage
-Dagger(ranged): -2 to hit, 1d4+1 damage

Initiative: +0 (+0 Dex)
Languages: Portuguese, English (those I already know), German, Italian (bonus languages based on my Int)

Skills
-Concentration: +4 (4 ranks, +0 Con) (+4 when casting defensively)
-Knowledge (History): +6 (4 ranks, +2 Int)
-Knowledge (Local): +6 (4 ranks, +2 Int)
-Spellcraft: +6 (4 ranks, +2 Int)
-Move Silently: +3 (0 ranks, +0 Dex, +3 familiar)
-Listen: -5 (0 ranks, -1 Wis, -4 flaw) (+2 when familiar is within arms reach)
-Spot: -5 (0 ranks, -1 Wis, -4 flaw) (+2 when familiar is within arms reach)

Eldest

2022-01-05, 10:46 PM

Is cunning surge really that important in day to day life? I guess it matters if one of the high level casters here decides to hunt you down for some reason.

Not at all, though it'd be neat to be able to pull off a quick burst of movement every, iunno, 5 minutes or so. However, I'm running on the assumption that by now, I've run into evidence that other people are also getting similar treatments, and power-gaming wizards out to take the world are possible now. Might as well be prepared.

But yeah it's mostly going to be a cool party trick.

I like the idea of a neutral zone. A place for all the power hungry folk here to meet up and avoid blowing the world up.

Yeah, seems the best way to defuse stuff. Nothing wrong with your plan, though I'm not sure why you'd want to go fully in the wilds. I like my internet.

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-06, 02:44 AM

I like the idea of a neutral zone. A place for all the power hungry folk here to meet up and avoid blowing the world up.
Isn't this a little premature? Right now, even the most powerful spellcaster PC out there is still relatively negligible when compared to the importance and influence of a major government of big corporation. Unless there's an optimized Diplomancer in these threads?

Troacctid

2022-01-06, 03:33 AM

EDIT: For some reason I thought 3.5 did allow for retraining, all of that is delayed by another year. Ah well. Probably more excited about the Pathfinder build anyway: less fiddly bits and a clear goal.
It does allow retraining, just not rebuilding.

H_H_F_F

2022-01-06, 04:39 AM

Complacent Human (+2 Int), 0 XP
Wizard 1 (What else can I say? Wizards are awesome.)
13 Str
10 Dex
11 Con
14 Int
8 Wis
7 Cha

Feats/Flaws
-Flaw: Pathetic (With the nonelite array, I think this will be useful. And lowering my charisma will turn from "slightly arkward around strangers" to "complete social failure".)
-Flaw: Inattentive (I'm already quite inattentive IRL. And seems like this will get even worse!)
-Bonus: Able Learner (I'll probably multiclass in the future)
-Bonus: Power Attack (Gishes are cool.)
-Level 1: Combat Casting (Yes, Abjurant Champion)
-Wizard 1: Scribe Scroll

Not sure where the +2 to int is coming from...

If you're going gish, you might wanr ro consider the wizard ACF from UA, replacing your scribe scroll and metamagic feats for fighter bonus feats. That is, unless you have a reason to really want scribe scroll...

Nothing wrong with your plan, though I'm not sure why you'd want to go fully in the wi×+lds. I like my internet.

Well, not fully in the wild. I like the internet, sure, but believe it or not I like my family even more

But I am an outside person, I like spending a lot of time alone traveling in nature, and a total of +6 to survival, cold endurance, woodland stride and the knowledge I hace spells to keep me alive if I really get in trouble - that's reason enough to go even further from the trodden path.

Just need the sky to open up again, and figure out how I'm getting 2 large wolves past airport security.

Isn't this a little premature? Right now, even the most powerful spellcaster PC out there is still relatively negligible when compared to the importance and influence of a major government of big corporation. Unless there's an optimized Diplomancer in these threads?

First of all, preperation is good. Second of all:

A level 2 sorcerer with charm person, disguise self, and practical metamagic (extend) can start a war in many countries, for sure, and empty the vaults of any bank on the planet. Suggestion makes it far easier to take over power more permanently, and dominate person is only a couple of years away for some folks here. No one on earth has means to defend from Scrying/Clairvoyance. 2 castings of invisibility would be more than enough to succesfully assasinate most leaders and escape.

Zone of truth. Detect thoughts.

You don't need to be "D&D powerful" to really mess the world up. You don't need to be able to challenge actual armies. In a world without magic, a bit of Divination, Enchantment and Illusion is enogh to really mess things up, if you so wish.

A place to talk things our sounds... beneficial.

Wildstag

2022-01-06, 11:35 AM

Another way to get immortality is to turn into a Killoren. This can be done with Shaper of Form if you're already a Fey. The easiest way to become a Fey is to take the Half-Fey Transition Class (it's explicitly a template you can obtain after birth, by meditating in Fey-touched places). IMO this is better than becoming an Elan, as Killoren is a better race and Half-Fey Transition Class grants wings and a pile of decent SLAs instead of Aberrant Paragon's fairly unpleasant requirements (follower of the Dragon Below, physical changes, becoming super creepy, etc).

My personal build just takes Wedded to History (and will get Steal Life at high level anyway). It seems like an easier way to defeat ageing.

Mechanically speaking, Wedded to History doesn't make one immortal. It just gives you a background that may or may not have made you really old. Because the feat doesn't give you the Endless quality or any way to live forever, you'd just age normally and somehow have survived stasis or some such.

As mentioned above, Savage Species has rules for changing races. Specifically, there's the Ritual of Unlearning which could turn you into an elf at the cost of 7,000 gp and one class level. I'm not actually sure how the class level thing would work exactly, but it seems like the next time you would level up, instead you turn into an elf. The ritual requires a 7th-level caster, which we'll have some of in a year or two. It's not clear if you can do the ritual on yourself. There's also the Ritual of Vitality which costs some xp, but takes effect immediately. Also, at much higher levels you can change your species with Wish, and potentially even gain only some characteristics of the desired race, although that gets iffier RAW-wise. Also, there's Reincarnate, which in addition to being able to turn you into some longer-lived races (plus whatever is in the "Other" category) resets you to young adult age. Of course, it doesn't work on people who died of old age, so when you get old have somebody murder you, then Reincarnate you.

Reincarnate only works if someone else casts it and we don't really have any 7th level druids up and coming. Interestingly, the Ritual of Unlearning has no listed spell for it, just a caster level. Also, page 147 of Savage Species, under the Rituals header but before it discusses lists the rituals, specifies this...

A ritualist (a spellcaster versed in the conducting of one or more rituals) is necessary for the performance of any ritual. Player character spellcasters can learn how to conduct the rituals described below. A ritualist cannot conduct a ritual on herself."

P.S. The quote also uses my favorite part about 3.5 writing: that the pronoun alternates between male and female frequently. In class descriptions, it matches the iconic's gender, but sometimes it's just random.

Telonius

2022-01-06, 11:52 AM

Isn't this a little premature? Right now, even the most powerful spellcaster PC out there is still relatively negligible when compared to the importance and influence of a major government of big corporation. Unless there's an optimized Diplomancer in these threads?

Not totally maxed out yet, but 7 ranks in Diplomacy, Beguiling Influence (for another +6), no plus or minus from Cha 11, and +2 from Bluff synergy. So +15 total. I turn an Indifferent person Friendly (or an Unfriendly person, Indifferent) automatically; I turn a Friendly person Helpful (or a Hostile person, Unfriendly) on a roll of 5 or better.

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-06, 11:57 AM

I've been looking for a way to craft a dedicated wright for myself. Troacctid, could any of these work?

Get an Artificer Cohort to make one for me.
Use a Bonding Ritual to create a Golem Manual for a Dedicated Wright (golem manuals aren't custom items, but AFAIK there isn't one for dedicated wrights).
I could take Craft Magic Arms and Armor at level 6. IIRC I take feats before getting class benefits (including CL), so I need CL 5 at level 5 to take Craft Magic Arms and Armor at level 6. My build at level 5 will be Sha'ir3/Durthan1/Cleric 1 - if the Knowledge domain grants me +1CL for divination spells (IIRC including my arcane divination spells), does that give me CL 5 for the purpose of qualifying for the feat? Then I could take Craft Construct at level 9 and make the Dedicated Wright at level 10, which I suppose is better than nothing.

Mechanically speaking, Wedded to History doesn't make one immortal. It just gives you a background that may or may not have made you really old. Because the feat doesn't give you the Endless quality or any way to live forever, you'd just age normally and somehow have survived stasis or some such.
If I can't take Nymph's Kiss because I can't find a Nymph to kiss in real life, then the story effects of Wedded to History had better apply! :tongue::biggrin::tongue:

Not totally maxed out yet, but 7 ranks in Diplomacy, Beguiling Influence (for another +6), no plus or minus from Cha 11, and +2 from Bluff synergy. So +15 total. I turn an Indifferent person Helpful (or an Unfriendly person, Indifferent) automatically; I turn a Friendly person Helpful (or a Hostile person, Unfriendly) on a roll of 5 or better.
While that is indeed impressive, I was thinking about builds that can do "Hostile to Helpful as a standard action" and IIRC nobody is quite there yet. Right now, keeping in mind that magic has been publicly revealed by a bunch of posters and isn't a crazy outside-context-problem, a Diplomancer who tried to take control over a country could (and probably would) be identified and killed by normal security forces at some point. Or they'd kidnap and/or attempt to suborn the Diplomancer, unless the Diplomancer was clever about his approach and personal safety. They might succeed, of course, but it isn't a sure thing yet.

H_H_F_F

2022-01-06, 12:03 PM

Can we get cohorts? I thought only people here had levels.

Also: I took Nymph's kiss last year, and wasn't notified of any issues. Was that an illegal choice? Do I need to change the build?

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-06, 12:14 PM

Can we get cohorts? I thought only people here had levels.

Also: I took Nymph's kiss last year, and wasn't notified of any issues. Was that an illegal choice? Do I need to change the build?
Yes we can get cohorts. There was a bunch of discussion a few years back, and IIRC we were told that we could pick people who would get levels just like us, but they only level when our cohort level cap goes up.
Oh, and unfortunately Dragon Cohort does not let us turn someone into a Dragon.

You have a build that took the feat and troacctid didn't say anything? Maybe I'm misremembering then, sorry.

H_H_F_F

2022-01-06, 01:04 PM

Yes we can get cohorts. There was a bunch of discussion a few years back, and IIRC we were told that we could pick people who would get levels just like us, but they only level when our cohort level cap goes up.
Oh, and unfortunately Dragon Cohort does not let us turn someone into a Dragon.

You have a build that took the feat and troacctid didn't say anything? Maybe I'm misremembering then, sorry.

Oh, gotcha. Yeah, I remember reading something about turning people into dragons.

Yeah, I took Nymph's Kiss last year and there was no commentary on that. I guess without any prereqs I just assumed the fluff was irrelevant, or could be translated into having a lifechanging spiritual experience incurred by the forces of nature or something, which I have.

I guess I'll wait for an update from Troacctid...

Windcaller

2022-01-06, 01:23 PM

Not sure where the +2 to int is coming from...

If you're going gish, you might wanr ro consider the wizard ACF from UA, replacing your scribe scroll and metamagic feats for fighter bonus feats. That is, unless you have a reason to really want scribe scroll...

Oh, the +2 Int is from Complacent Human (from Dragon #320). The OP says it's allowed.
And I was thinking about getting a martial feat in the place of Scribe Scroll, but, even if crafting uses XP, having some utility scrolls ready for a case of emergency would be a lifesaver in real life.

H_H_F_F

2022-01-06, 01:27 PM

Oh, the +2 Int is from Complacent Human (from Dragon #320). The OP says it's allowed.
And I was thinking about getting a martial feat in the place of Scribe Scroll, but, even if crafting uses XP, having some utility scrolls ready for a case of emergency would be a lifesaver in real life.

Makes sense.

Note that you have XP set aside for non-leveling stuff, so you could get a hold of a lot of scrolls pretty easily.

Kalkra

2022-01-06, 01:51 PM

While that is indeed impressive, I was thinking about builds that can do "Hostile to Helpful as a standard action" and IIRC nobody is quite there yet. Right now, keeping in mind that magic has been publicly revealed by a bunch of posters and isn't a crazy outside-context-problem, a Diplomancer who tried to take control over a country could (and probably would) be identified and killed by normal security forces at some point. Or they'd kidnap and/or attempt to suborn the Diplomancer, unless the Diplomancer was clever about his approach and personal safety. They might succeed, of course, but it isn't a sure thing yet.

I have a level of Artificer. That means I can make scrolls of Guidance of the Avatar, Divine Insight, and Eagle's Splendor and with my level of wizard I can cast Skillful Moment, which all together is a Diplomacy check of 50, assuming that I have no ranks and a Charisma of 10. That's enough to turn a hostile person helpful in a minute, or one step less in either direction as a full-round action. There might be more skill-boosting spells that I could stack on top, and that's ignoring custom spells. Versions of the above spells with bigger numbers, or different bonus types should be possible.

Troacctid

2022-01-06, 02:18 PM

Yeah, I took Nymph's Kiss last year and there was no commentary on that. I guess without any prereqs I just assumed the fluff was irrelevant, or could be translated into having a lifechanging spiritual experience incurred by the forces of nature or something, which I have.

I guess I'll wait for an update from Troacctid...
Nymph's Kiss is fine. It's not actually in the prerequisite line, so...

I've been looking for a way to craft a dedicated wright for myself. Troacctid, could any of these work?

Get an Artificer Cohort to make one for me.
Use a Bonding Ritual to create a Golem Manual for a Dedicated Wright (golem manuals aren't custom items, but AFAIK there isn't one for dedicated wrights).
I could take Craft Magic Arms and Armor at level 6. IIRC I take feats before getting class benefits (including CL), so I need CL 5 at level 5 to take Craft Magic Arms and Armor at level 6. My build at level 5 will be Sha'ir3/Durthan1/Cleric 1 - if the Knowledge domain grants me +1CL for divination spells (IIRC including my arcane divination spells), does that give me CL 5 for the purpose of qualifying for the feat? Then I could take Craft Construct at level 9 and make the Dedicated Wright at level 10, which I suppose is better than nothing.

1. Wouldn't that mean it'd only be able to do your cohort's crafting, not yours?
2. They don't use manuals.
3. You don't have to meet the prerequisites for the feat until the same level you take it. Having 5 CL at level 6 is fine.

The easiest way would be to take Least Dragonmark as a feat. This would give you the ability to cast summon marked homunculus to summon a dedicated wright. Get the duration to 9 hours and you're set.

If I can't take Nymph's Kiss because I can't find a Nymph to kiss in real life, then the story effects of Wedded to History had better apply! :tongue::biggrin::tongue:
What gave you the impression that the Endless quality was part of the story effects of Wedded to History? If anything, it's the reverse: being Endless causes you to gain Wedded to History, not the other way round. Wedded to History represents the benefits of having lived in ancient times, whether you're immortal, endless, or otherwise.

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-06, 03:40 PM

The easiest way would be to take Least Dragonmark as a feat. This would give you the ability to cast summon marked homunculus to summon a dedicated wright. Get the duration to 9 hours and you're set.
Wait, Dragonmarks are allowed? I assumed that everyone on earth failed the story prerequisite. If I can take them I definitely will, if only because mark of making provides some great spells as a standard action if I can get into the lesser and greater marks.
I'm thinking about some feat retraining... I don't quite have CL 8 just yet, but even if the homonculus can only do part of the day's work it'd still be making my life a lot more convenient.

On another note: in a few levels I'm hoping to have Supernatural Spell. That should allow me to bypass the "dragonmark" component of the spell: would that allow me to use Summon Marked Homonculus without having the appropriate dragonmark?

I also notice that Summon Marked Homonculus requires dragonshard dust as a material component. Can dragonshards be produced artificially somehow, or do I need Eschew Materials too? My knowledge of Eberron isn't encyclopedic, but IIRC they're mined, right?

What gave you the impression that the Endless quality was part of the story effects of Wedded to History? If anything, it's the reverse: being Endless causes you to gain Wedded to History, not the other way round. Wedded to History represents the benefits of having lived in ancient times, whether you're immortal, endless, or otherwise.
Wait, so is Wedded to History allowed or not? Because this makes it sound like I can't take it unless I'm actually super old. And I've been saying that it halts my ageing in these threads every year since like 2019 - was this incorrect the whole time? Surely I'd have noticed by now, right?

Telonius

2022-01-06, 03:51 PM

Troacctid

2022-01-06, 03:57 PM

Wait, Dragonmarks are allowed? I assumed that everyone on earth failed the story prerequisite. If I can take them I definitely will, if only because mark of making provides some great spells as a standard action if I can get into the lesser and greater marks.
I'm thinking about some feat retraining... I don't quite have CL 8 just yet, but even if the homonculus can only do part of the day's work it'd still be making my life a lot more convenient.
Sure. I gave them as an example of a "Basically a Sorcerer" adaptation upthread. Any of the human marks should be fine.

On another note: in a few levels I'm hoping to have Supernatural Spell. That should allow me to bypass the "dragonmark" component of the spell: would that allow me to use Summon Marked Homonculus without having the appropriate dragonmark?
I mean, you could, but since the type of homunculus you summon keys off of how strong your dragonmark is, you wouldn't be able to get a dedicated wright without actually having a least mark minimum.

I also notice that Summon Marked Homonculus requires dragonshard dust as a material component. Can dragonshards be produced artificially somehow, or do I need Eschew Materials too? My knowledge of Eberron isn't encyclopedic, but IIRC they're mined, right?
That's a good catch. Maybe you could find a substitute. I'm not sure. Supernatural spell would certainly solve this problem.

Wait, so is Wedded to History allowed or not? Because this makes it sound like I can't take it unless I'm actually super old. And I've been saying that it halts my ageing in these threads every year since like 2019 - was this incorrect the whole time? Surely I'd have noticed by now, right?
I'm not saying it isn't allowed, I'm just saying you might have misunderstood its effect. If you want the Endless quality, taking the feat is neither necessary nor sufficient to gain it.

Wildstag

2022-01-06, 04:07 PM

Wait, so is Wedded to History allowed or not? Because this makes it sound like I can't take it unless I'm actually super old. And I've been saying that it halts my ageing in these threads every year since like 2019 - was this incorrect the whole time? Surely I'd have noticed by now, right?

Yeah, the feat doesn't grant the Endless quality. The tagline for the article "Playing Elders in D&D" is kinda false advertising, since it doesn't give a way for you to become an Elder except through GM Fiat.

I had that same reaction last year when people explained it to me as well.

Just checked out the spreadsheet ... apparently I'm the highest-level Cleric, and tied for highest-level Warlock. :smalleek: Very light on the Divine casting in general; We've got one third-level Druid, and a few Cleric and Druid 2's. The world might not be aware that Divine casting is a thing at all, at this point.

Correction, as of this year at least: a Druid 3 and Druid 4. And a grab-bag of Cloistered Clerics. But yeah, we're a divine-light world (assuming one world).

Kalkra

2022-01-06, 04:15 PM

Just checked out the spreadsheet ... apparently I'm the highest-level Cleric, and tied for highest-level Warlock. :smalleek: Very light on the Divine casting in general; We've got one third-level Druid, and a few Cleric and Druid 2's. The world might not be aware that Divine casting is a thing at all, at this point.

Next year I'll have enough xp to get a minor schema of Concurrent Infusions at CL 8 with Sculpt Self, which will allow me to get any 4th level spell once/day. Also, as an StP Erudite I might be able to learn arcane versions of divine spells if I can find them.

Wildstag

2022-01-06, 04:17 PM

Kalkra

2022-01-06, 04:24 PM

Perhaps we could argue for 3.5 rebuild rules. Maybe I went through an anger management seminar and no longer have that barbarian Rage in my life. Made one too many errors at work and they sent me through a program or something.

For everything except your first level, you could drain your levels with some undead creature (assuming that still works even though xp is disconnected from levels) and then get it back with Greater Restoration or a Thought Bottle or something. Definitely a higher-level thing, but it's not like every level you take is forever locked in stone. I'm gonna need to take three levels of Erudite before I can start theurging, and if I took the right feats from the beginning I'd only need one, so I'll need to do something like that at some point.

Another option is to do something with the SS rituals by turning into a creature with RHD and then turning back. That should also let you change the first level you took, and it's available once somebody hits CL 7.

Peelee

2022-01-06, 05:15 PM

Wildstag

2022-01-06, 05:23 PM

For everything except your first level, you could drain your levels with some undead creature (assuming that still works even though xp is disconnected from levels) and then get it back with Greater Restoration or a Thought Bottle or something. Definitely a higher-level thing, but it's not like every level you take is forever locked in stone. I'm gonna need to take three levels of Erudite before I can start theurging, and if I took the right feats from the beginning I'd only need one, so I'll need to do something like that at some point.

Another option is to do something with the SS rituals by turning into a creature with RHD and then turning back. That should also let you change the first level you took, and it's available once somebody hits CL 7.

Yes, the rituals have been discussed in length at this point. The blue text was purely for the sake of sarcasm, I don't know anyone that actually participates in those seminars start-to-finish.

P.S. Though I guess therapy could work to some extent for the rage aspect. I dunno, it was a dumb joke.

Karmea

2022-01-06, 05:53 PM

Oh, Wedded to History doesn't work for immortality? Well, whatever. Steal Life & Restoration works RAW. Just get a volunteer or do it to yourself on a couple of full moons every now and then. (Evil) spell, granted, but no harm done. It's 8th level tho, gonna take a few years.

The world might not be aware that Divine casting is a thing at all, at this point.

I'm for sure not going to reveal myself, lol.

EndlessKng

2022-01-08, 01:16 AM

Gah! Almost forgot about this with everything going on. Thank you for running it yet again!

Looking back, I just realized that Bladewalker doesn't really kick in until Armiger 2. That's an oversight that needs to be corrected, so there's my level!

aglondier

2022-01-08, 02:16 AM

Well, I'll be aiming for pathfinder Wizard 20th level Arcane Discovery: Immortality...in 18 years time...so in 2040, at an age of 66, I gain immortality...

...yay...

Jack_Simth

2022-01-08, 01:48 PM

Well, I'll be aiming for pathfinder Wizard 20th level Arcane Discovery: Immortality...in 18 years time...so in 2040, at an age of 66, I gain immortality...

...yay...
Greater Age Resistance and Greater Posession will help.

Shalist

2022-01-10, 08:26 AM

Another year, another level in artificer.

edit: I'll note my entry on the spreadsheet has me at level 5 (not counting this year) rather than level 6; it has the entries filled out correctly (sorcerer 1 + artificer 5), just totaled up incorrectly.

I'll edit an updated build (infusions, feats, etc) into this post this weekend.

---------

Per the OP, I'd probably be sorcerer / dweomerkeeper. Spontaneous since the lack of daily preparation and such appeals to my laziness, dweomerkeeper for that cost-free supernatural wish, which I'd promptly use for a 'Ring of Infinite Wishes.' I'd be happier with better skills, HPs, and saves, but ah well, there are other ways to get those.

My first goal would be to boost my mental stats, and then magic up a super computer that could grant me a thousand years of virtual reality for every minute that actually passes, giving me all the time in the world to consider my options and, hopefully, choose wisely.

---

On a side note, bestow curse / greater bestow curse (BC / GBC) are worth a mention. Specifically, using them to give yourself numerical bonuses, class features, and various other powerful / odd perks.

Positive modifiers are neither more or less 'powerful' than numerically equivalent negative modifiers, so GBCing someone with a permanent -16 intelligence is just as powerful as GBCing them with a permanent +16 intelligence; similarly, if BCs and GBCs can remove feats or class features, granting them would make for equally powerful curses.

To clarify, the notion that "more useful to the player = more powerful" isn't RAW. The only RAW reason blatantly benign 'curses' wouldn't fly at the table is (for GBC at least) the "DM has the final say on a curse's effect" clause, which arguably doesn't apply to these kinds of threads.

Just something to think about while you use the following compilation to get an idea of how powerful curses and greater curses can be.

On a side note, BC / GBC are touch spells:

Meaning you can, within reason, cast the spell whenever or wherever you want, and finish it later on with a handshake or something.

I'll bite. I mean, either you assume fixed values (1 lb of salt = 5g) or assume that everything is different, including gold being hundreds of times rarer. It amounts to the same thing, and since 'salt crafting' is funnier...

I can't give up spontaneous quality-of-life spells, but I am changing my 2nd level to artificer (3.5, since I'm less familiar with PF). Besides, one could always use Dark Souls playthroughs as rebuild quests for retaking these levels.

Bestow Curse is a 2nd level spell on the demonologist list (Consolidated List of "Bargain Bin" Spells for Artificers (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12661)), meaning an artificer could be scribing it at level 1. You get 2 UMD attempts per scroll, would only be out $3 if you fail both, and further success will be trivial after the first scroll.

Sorc1/art1. 13/12/11 int, cha, wis; 10/9/8 con, str, dex.
Versatile spellcaster and heighten spell for my initial feats.

Arcane spells:
1) endure elements: To greatly increase my travel options and comfort.
1) feather fall: For some incredible skydiving.
0) mending: Convenience and financial freedom.
0) prestigidation: Cleaning, pranks (i.e. changing how things taste), etc.
0) launch item: ("Challenge -me- to a water balloon fight?")
0) stick: Everything is Velcro! ("I have -what- stuck to my back?")

Artificer infusions:
1) skill enhancement: Realistically, +2 to any specific skill for 10 minutes/lvl would be a fairly noticeable boost.
1) weapon augmentation, personal: Grants a weapon any +1 enhancement (or up to +10,000 i.e. spellblades are +6,000g) for 10 minutes/lvl; that's a pretty big list ('silent strike' to silence yourself, 'merciful' firearms, 'wrecker' to ignore hardness, or a 'bane' for any situation).

For now, I'll be exploiting bestow curse to help with medical and energy research (i.e. 'cursing' researchers with +6 int / wis and +4 to all skill and ability checks); and, naturally, using it to 'max myself out' for my current resources (numerical bonuses, extra feats, youth, total anonymity, etc.).

Note that the 'magical training' feat lets you choose 2 or 3 (spontaneous vs. prepared) cantrips, for 3 castings per day (total), so you can take any class you want and still have prestidigitation and mend.

The scrolls cost 3x what I thought (Artificers can craft items 2 levels early but still pay as if the CL were normal), but that's trivial. Assuming the previous year of bestowing benign curses (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?524235-You-will-always-be-first-level&p=21994096#post21994096) went well, I'll be continuing in this vein for another year.

Sorc1/Art1 -> Sorc1/Art2.

You found that any attempts to bestow a purely beneficial curse failed. Experimentation revealed that it was possible to include beneficial effects in a curse, but only if they were accompanied by negative side effects. In the process, you and/or anyone else you tested this on probably acquired some curses that were more uncomfortable than intended, which you'll probably want to remove.

Sorc1/Art2 -> Sorc1/Art3. Retrain to Art4. Gaining two flaws (shaky / vulnerable). 1 point into int.

Feats (some retraining): 6x 'exceptional artisan' (crafting time * 0.75), 1x 'magical artisan (all crafting costs * 0.75); (2 feats for level 1, 2 for flaws, 1 for level 3, 1 for artificer 4, and occasionally 1 for bestow curse). For a total multiplier of 0.133 for time, and 0.75 for $$ cost.

I'll start plucking more low-hanging fruit for personally staying out of the news: magical disguises, relying on wealthy sponsors / organizations to make various arrangements, etc..

====

4th level artificer nets me 'craft homunculus,' i.e. 'dedicated wright,' which builds magic items for me while I'm busy being lazy.

I can now craft wondrous items, and emulate 3rd level spells* (http://bg-archive.minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=12661.0) (or up to 6th level domain spells via 'divine crusader' class spell list i.e. heal of the healing domain) for the purpose of item creation. I will initially focus on items to help my UMD ('circlet of persuasion' combined with an 'admiral's bicorne', 'cloak of charisma +6' for a total +8 UMD/charisma checks).

Beyond that, while there's a ton of things I'd like to make, I'll focus on healing items. Somehow I doubt automatically resetting traps of cure disease, remove blindness/deafness, etc., will work, but I'll give 'em a shot. Otherwise I'll create 'trumpets of healing,' which can heal one person per day, and 3x/day can perform various healing spells (CSW, remove blindness/deafness, cure disease, neutralize poison) on all non-evil folks within 360'. With a base cost of 116k, it'll take 16 days to make each one, so I'll have 20 of them in circulation in the first year.

Note that a sphere with a radius of 360' has a volume of 195 million cubic feet, or 1.6 million 5' cubes; I'll let the insurance companies and/or charitable organizations figure out the logistics of milking that for all it's worth.

Alternately (additionally), I'd craft items with significant outside-context benefits: 'third eye sense' (MIC, clairvoyance) for space exploration (or teleportation if I can restrict/deweaponize it a bit), 'decanters of water' for Red Cross or engineers/NASA, and so on.

Dragoneye runes (arcane mark / GPS tracker) on expensive items wouldn't hurt, though there's enough divination resources available to aid in retrieval.

====

On curses, giving permanent benign curses with a minor negative side affects is kosher (per 2018 spoiler); adding clauses to break or suppress the curse (kissing a frog // hopping on one leg while saying "Waffles!" // etc.) is trivial (RAW it's a weaker curse, and it's largely established in lore). One hiccup I didn't notice years ago is "Same spell, different results (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#stackingEffects)," which means someone can only have one curse active at a time.

Still, a sizable number of researchers and engineers have likely accepted a '+6 to all knowledge (or craft, or profession) skills' curse, which is a huge deal. That large of a bonus could turn anyone into a leading expert, much less people who're already leaders or seasoned veterans of their fields. I'll likely focus on medical, energy, recycling, and software design.

My own curse will either be be a bonus (time/cost reduction) feat, or something to boost UMD if I'm working on cheaper items where I've only a couple chances to make the DC 20 - 26 UMD check with my +16 modifier.

Annual reminder that the 'magical training' feat lets you choose 2 or 3 (spontaneous vs. prepared) cantrips, for 3 castings per day (total), so you can take any class you want and still have prestidigitation and mend.

For 2020, (3.5) Artificer 4 => Artificer 5

Another artificer level, and happy New Year!

Crichton

2022-01-10, 10:43 AM

Another year, might as well stick to what semblance of a plan I had:

I think I'll retrain Linked Power into Imprint Stone, since that will be a lot more useful right now. Linked can wait a bit.

Human
STR 9, DEX 11, CON 12, INT 14, WIS 10, CHA 8 (INT increased by one now at level 4)

Erudite 5
ACF: Convert Spell to Power
Level 1 Feat: Extend Power
Human Bonus Feat: Hidden Talent
Level 3 Feat: Imprint Stone
Level 5 Bonus Feat: Craft Universal Item

PP: 30 (technically 32, but I don't have enough CHA to utilize the 2pp from Hidden Talent)

Psicrystal:

HD 5
Str 1, Dex 15, Con -, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 11 (increased CHA by one at HD4)
HD 1 Feat: Hidden Talent (I'll come back and edit with this choice soon. It's getting late)
HD 3 Feat: Draconic Aura: Vigor (though perhaps Toughness would be better, in this situation?)

I'm toying with the idea of making this a Dragon 319 Erudite, since they don't have the 'one level lower' restriction for discipline powers (and thus, also spells) but there's (what I assume is) a typo in the text there for learning discipline powers that makes it dysfunctional/nonfunctional:

"An erudite can only learn discipline powers by directly learning them from another's repertoire, learning it from a power stone, [...] Next, the erudite may make a Psicraft check (DC15+ power's level) to see if he understands one of the powers. If the power is not on his class list or is a discipline power, he automatically fails this check."

I seem to remember Cordell saying this was a typo (though I can't seem to find that now), and they fixed it in the CPsi text to say "If the selected power is not on his class list or on any of the select discipline lists, he automatically fails this check."

How shall I proceed to interpret, dear adjudicator Troacctid?

Troacctid

2022-01-10, 12:43 PM

I'm toying with the idea of making this a Dragon 319 Erudite, since they don't have the 'one level lower' restriction for discipline powers (and thus, also spells) but there's (what I assume is) a typo in the text there for learning discipline powers that makes it dysfunctional/nonfunctional:

"An erudite can only learn discipline powers by directly learning them from another's repertoire, learning it from a power stone, [...] Next, the erudite may make a Psicraft check (DC15+ power's level) to see if he understands one of the powers. If the power is not on his class list or is a discipline power, he automatically fails this check."

I seem to remember Cordell saying this was a typo (though I can't seem to find that now), and they fixed it in the CPsi text to say "If the selected power is not on his class list or on any of the select discipline lists, he automatically fails this check."

How shall I proceed to interpret, dear adjudicator Troacctid?
Use the more recent version of the class, which also has typos, but mostly in different places.

Crichton

2022-01-10, 06:09 PM

Use the more recent version of the class, which also has typos, but mostly in different places.

Well that's less fun lol. Simpler, sure, but definitely less fun than using the Dragon version. Was trying to use it to steer clear of dubious shenanigans to get 9th level spells and discipline powers pre-epic, but without 319 erudite, I may not be able to do so with this build. Much thought and pre-planning shall be needed.

Also which typos are you meaning in the CPsi version? The 'unique powers per level per day' thing? Pretty likely a typo, for sure, but also not actually dysfunctional/nonfunctional as written. Given the choice between what was supposed to be a strict limit on powers per day but actually isn't much limit at all, and actually having some limit on powers per day but not having a 'one level lower' limit on discipline powers, I'd personally go with the latter, but you're running this show, so I'll go with your call here. And thanks again for putting in the work to run this thread every year! It's a lot of fun!

Endarire

2022-01-10, 11:44 PM

Still a Druid for Druid2.

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-11, 03:07 AM

Troacctid

2022-01-11, 03:21 AM

Troacctid, is Medani Prophet allowed?

I could turn into a Half-Elf with Shaper of Form and retrain my level 1 and 6 feats into Least Dragonmark and Lesser Dragonmark
I could be a Concept Cleric with the Oracle domain or something, to keep the "Aureon, god of knowledge and law" vibe
Getting training from the Voice of Aureon isn't explicitly possible IRL, but surely there are IRL groups that could be considered equivalent (oracles? fortune-tellers?)

I'm mostly thinking through possible cohort builds as I write this. Cloistered Planning + Oracle Concept Cleric 5 / Shaper of Form 1 (Half-Elf) / Medani Prophet 5 / Primal Scholar 5 / Visionary Seeker 1 seems like a decent "see the future" thematic build. It wouldn't have crafting feats, so it could spend its XP on Commune easily enough, but Medani Prophet brings standard-action augury and divination SLAs which IMO really top the build off (as well as irregular future-visions, of course).
The book says: "The path of the prophet is not a choice, but a calling. Dreams and visions drew you to the shrine of the Voice, where you were taught to interpret these signs and unlock your potential." So it falls under "Sorcerer But Different," or rather, the closely related divine variant of "Favored Soul But Different." I would expect it to be fine if you can somehow manage the prerequisites. I personally find it a somewhat baffling choice (why put together a complex Rube Goldberg chain of feat taxes and race changes when divine oracle is only a feat away?), but you do you. Note though that cohorts pick their own levels—leaders don't pick for them.

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-11, 03:29 AM

The book says: "The path of the prophet is not a choice, but a calling. Dreams and visions drew you to the shrine of the Voice, where you were taught to interpret these signs and unlock your potential." So it falls under "Sorcerer But Different," or rather, the closely related divine variant of "Favored Soul But Different." I would expect it to be fine if you can somehow manage the prerequisites. I personally find it a somewhat baffling choice (why put together a complex Rube Goldberg chain of feat taxes and race changes when divine oracle is only a feat away?), but you do you. Note though that cohorts pick their own levels—leaders don't pick for them.
Yeah, I asked them what they wanted (they don't play 3.5 but liked the idea of this thread) and they said "seeing the future". We went through the future-seeing spells, and their response was "most of these are way too slow and inconvenient to use". That's when I remembered Medani Prophet, the PrC that lets you use divination as an SLA. Want to check something? Think about it for six seconds, and you can (probably) know! And of course you don't lose and Cleric casting (important for cohorts that potentially peak at level 17), so you can do good stuff with that.

Divine oracle doesn't actually do much for future-seeing beyond letting you reroll the success dice on augury/divination. And that doesn't look like it would apply to augury/divination SLAs, either. Most divine oracle boosts are combat-related boosts representing local-scale danger sense, which doesn't seem very useful in this scenario (or for this person who wants to be out there doing big prophecies and whatnot).

Troacctid

2022-01-11, 03:56 AM

Unfortunately, if that's the goal, it won't do what you want. SLAs do default to a standard action if no action is given, but that clause never applies to SLAs that mimic spells, because every spell already has a casting time to define its action cost.

Although, actually, since it's a dragonmark ability, you could still do it if you took Quicken Dragonmark once or twice, or got your hands on the equivalent rod.

Jack_Simth

2022-01-11, 08:31 AM

On making money for crafting....

This is quite easy. Many routes available.

Greater Hat of Disguise, Alter Self at will. Sleeves of Many Garments: Clothes too. Invisibility so nobody sees me change disguises. Walk into one restroom, vanish, go into another, change forms and clothing, appear. Take the bus. Leave my electronics at home, and wear gloves. All easily made since 3rd level.

Cut a deal with a <leader.title> of <deity.name> (while wearing a different face via Greater Hat of Disguise, of course). The keep the doctrine of <deity.name> pure, and get public, obvious cures a few times per day. I make it happen (while invisible, I want the <leader.title> to soak all the attention), and take a cut of offerings "To do other work for <deity.name>". With folks getting healed of diseases and injuries - visibly, verifiably, and often - this will get very big, very quickly.
Invisibility, Charm Person, and a Greater Hat of Disguise? Yes, theft is easy. Case a joint for a while to see who has access to the vault and who their boss is. Later on, be the boss, charm the vault person, and empty the vault.
Rerolls mean those 49% win, 51% loss games become 73.99% win, 26.01% loss games. Don't bet it all, and yes, there will be bad streaks occasionally. But the average is suddenly very much in my favor on things like, oh, roulette. Change face periodically so as not to draw attention.
Automatic Writing: a 90% accurate divination, daily, good for a week. "Which of these stocks will go up the most over the next seven days?" has a nice simple short phrase answer. Again, don't bet it all, as there will be losses. Charm Person should help out if I get a visit from the SEC.
How much, do you think, one of those high end sports figures would pay for a belt that verifiably and reliably makes them noticeably better at their sport? I can make those. They'll sell well, especially with demos.
Unattended objects don't get saves - which means a camera set up and recording all by itself doesn't get a save vs. the Image line. I can get them via Arcane Enlightenment. Duration is Concentration+ on all of them. So yeah, videos of anything I can imagine, sold online. There's bound to be many, many ways to make money with this.

... et cetera. There's really no shortage.

Troacctid

2022-01-11, 01:53 PM

Is greater hat of disguise a Pathfinder item? I've never heard of it.

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-11, 01:55 PM

Is greater hat of disguise a Pathfinder item? I've never heard of it.
It's Pathfinder-only, yes. Almost every Pathfinder build that mentions items mentions it though, so it's probably great :D

Jack_Simth

2022-01-11, 02:33 PM

Is greater hat of disguise a Pathfinder item? I've never heard of it.

Correct, Pathfinder only. At will Alter Self, and the hat gets to change too. Pathfinder nerfed Alter Self significantly, but it's still very useful. Biggest benefit is that as it's not an illusion, it's your skill check vs. their skill check, with no option for that pesky DC 11 will save that goes with Disguise Self from an item (True Seeing still beats it, but that's a lot less common).
Link to the hat (scroll down) (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/h-l/hat-of-disguise/)

If I switch my spirit hex from Arcane Enlightenment (Su) to Benefits of Wisdom, I have a Spellcraft check of +13. Taking Ten makes a result of 23. With how Pathfinder Crafting works, that's a CL 18 item where I meet all the requirements, a CL 13 item where I'm missing one, or a CL 8 item where I'm missing two right now, without items.

At 3rd, where Craft Wondrous Item came online, that was +9 mod, take ten of 19, CL 14 meeting requirements,9 missing 1, CL 4 missing two. A Headband of Alluring Charisma - regardless of type - is just CL 8, and has one requirement. Given time and cash, I could make a +6 version at level 3 when I started. That +3 boost to Spellcraft (on Benefits of Wisdom), still at 3rd, means a take ten of 22, for CL 17 with all requirements met, CL 12 with one missing, CL 7 with two missing. A Circlet of Persuasion (CL 5, 1 requirement) as well grants another +3, making those CL 20, 15, and 10.

At 5th, that boost to Charisma puts me at +17, taking ten of +27, which is CL 22 items if I meet all requirements, CL 17 if I'm missing one. Pages of Spell Knowledge grant bonus spells known, and are CL 17 with a single requirement (the contained spell). Which means as of 5th level, I get all the Cleric/Oracle spells known I want, given time. This also means I can quite easily meet requirements for crafting. Like, say, picking up Eagle's Splendor and Owl's Wisdom, and upgrading the headband to Mental Superiority +6 (+6 to all mental stats, with bonus skills - CL 16, one missing requirement as Fox's Cunning isn't on the Cleric list). I can do the same with the belt, for +6 to all Physical stats. And make Tomes/Manuals for the Inherent bonuses (CL 17, one requirement - can make this at 5th). Which means starting at 5th, I'm rocking a +6 Enhancement, +5 Inherent to all stats (starting with Charisma) ... although the pricing means time becomes a limiting factor.

At 7th (now), with Craft Construct, I can offload the time somewhat (I can create minions to maintain my cash flow: Commission full-scale paintings for making Trompe L'Oeils (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/trompe-l-oeil-cr-1/) of useful creatures, which obey per This note in Craft Construct (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/item-creation-feats/craft-Construct-item-creation/#The_Finished_Construct) even if they don't have a listed control mechanism; I would test to see if high-resolution prints qualify as masterwork paintings for this; makes things go faster, but isn't a requirement to get things done - an Adult Dungeon Dragon (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/dragons/dragon/dungeon-dragon-tohc/dungeon-dragon-adult-tohc) gets Craft Wondrous Item, which lets me offload some of the crafting as well). With a +22 Spellcraft mod during crafting (7 ranks, +3 class, +9 Charisma, +3 Circlet), I take ten to get a result of 32; that's a CL 27 item with all requirements met, CL 22 missing one, or CL 17 missing one and going fast. At this stage, my UMD mod also becomes +19, which is important, as it's only DC 20 to fake a spell being on my class list - which means Pages of Spell Knowledge can now get me cross-list spells. I can have any spell known I want, provided it's of a level I can cast.

Also, of course, Craft Construct lets me expand a bit on income sources (most the money-making routes listed above can be duplicated via select creatures, and there are new ones besides - like selling permanent light sources after making an Archon). So 7th and Craft Construct is a significant tipping point for me (crafting time and money quickly cease to matter). I can have basically all the wondrous items I want a little later this year, after making a few minions. I'll update my sheet to reflect this as I have time.

vasilidor

2022-01-11, 07:51 PM

Level 5 for me, which as I am a pathfinder guy, new feat.
I take my 3rd level in Arcanist.
My feat is Basic magic training from Spheres of power. I take the Light Sphere.
For my second Exploit I take Counter Spell.

Peelee

2022-01-11, 08:59 PM

Ya know, gonna go ahead and build my spell list, why not.

0th level

Create Water
Guidance
Light
Mending
Purify Food and Drink

1st level

Comprehend Languages
Endure Elements
Wings of the Sea

Brackenlord

2022-01-12, 09:01 AM

Ya know, gonna go ahead and build my spell list, why not.

0th level

Create Water
Guidance
Light
Mending
Purify Food and Drink

1st level

Comprehend Languages
Endure Elements
Wings of the Sea

Why Light over Cure Minor Wounds?

In a world where everyone has a computer with a embedded flashlight on their pockets, the first aid spell seems more valuable.

Peelee

2022-01-12, 11:58 AM

Why Light over Cure Minor Wounds?

In a world where everyone has a computer with a embedded flashlight on their pockets, the first aid spell seems more valuable.

Because I mistakenly thought I was level 3 and not 2 and had Cure Light Wounds as my last 1st level spell. And Light does a damn sight better than phone flashlights (which I would argue is bright light for 1 foot and dim light for 5 feet, rather than bright light for 20 and then dim light for a further 20). Plus, hands-free.

The spell list becomes super neat when I don't really need to kill anyone constantly.:smallwink: Just wait til I start picking up my sorcerer levels. I'll be able to create lemonade-flavored water whenever I want, and without the sugar!

Malimar

2022-01-12, 02:12 PM

Yay, now I'm a psion(seer) 6!

So far I know far hand, precognition, attraction, empathy, call to mind, clairvoyant sense, psionic tongues, psionic knock, sustenance, time hop, and psionic darkvision.

Probably this year I'll learn body adjustment and, I don't know, telekinetic force.

Kalkra

2022-01-12, 10:05 PM

Troacctid

2022-01-12, 10:31 PM

If I somehow change my levels, using whatever method, can I choose to take bloodline levels, or did I have to choose that at level one and now I'm permanently locked out of it? For that matter, could I take bloodline levels now?
Someone else asked something like this in a previous year. You take a bloodline level like a normal level, for up to one bloodline. You don't get any bloodline benefits until and unless you do.

Jack_Simth

2022-01-15, 03:01 PM

Updated sheet for having essentially limitless stuffs via crafting. When doing so, found I could find enough spellcraft optimization to make copies of basically any creature I like for Trompe L'oeils (at double-speed, even), which leads nicely into not needing a human crafter for the base paintings I enchant. I make my first (via Marvelous Pigments), and then she makes the rest from materials via fabricate, and I add the enchantments.

Other paintings make the rest of my Wondrous Items.

This is the year I plateau with this, apparently, as Craft Construct permits creating critters with high level spellcasting (Sorcerer's 9th level spells via dragons, Cleric's 9ths via Angels/Archons/Aeons, Druid's 9ths via Wild Hunt Monarch, Bard's 6th's level spells available via Muse... and oh, hey: The Sky dragon and Gold Dragon both get Alternate Form, 9th level spells (at Great Wyrm), and have the pre-statted Great Wyrms set up with Use Magic Device... which means Pages of spell knowledge get them any spell), including regular spell-like Wishes.

Which, of course, also lends well to various forms of higher-end immortality. Yay. Looks like I'm not aging past Middle Aged (permanently, anyway - I'll spend a lot of time Astral Projecting to the material plane, because I kinda like it here). Looking forward to getting access to Lesser Age Resistance (via UMD and a page of spell knowledge) next year to remove the Middle Age penalty.

Also found I no longer need the Greater Hat of Disguise most of the time. I can just cast Planar Infusion and Adjustable Disguise via Pages of Spell Knowledge and UMD at this point. Either is 10 minutes/level, can keep that up long enough for most purposes (CL 8, so over 1 hour per casting); nab a PaO from one of my pet crafting dragons if I need a longer duration.

Lucky for the rulers of the world: I'm really not interested in ruling the world. I've got my own sanctum, I'll set up a sanctum for my immediate family (all the adults, anyway, so they can be immortal too). I'm fine with being immortal, having my immediate family be immortal, and becoming stupidly-rich off mineral sales.

Jopustopin

2022-01-15, 11:00 PM

Some controversy this year when Jopustopin appeared in a Mask Up! YouTube video preaching the need for vaccinations and masks but was seen in Florida at one of the largest beach bash parties of the year... where no one was wearing a mask.

Jopustopin has crazy weird dreams, and has knowledge that he shouldn't have (nor should any man). He has practiced going through the motions of casting spells in combat while sheltering in place. Fighting for his life or past lives... who knows! He has continued amassing wealth and swimming a lot. Got to stay healthy. In the straight to Netflix hit movie, "Second Chances" critics lamented an action sequence that showed Jopustopin deflecting a missile with his bare hands.

Then suddenly, Jopustopin gains a level! It's in Warblade! His year long of training has paid off. Have you heard? He can punch through walls and deflect bullets. He is entering his "Clooney Years" and his charisma is suddenly a point higher! What will 2022 bring? Jopustopin has heard of others like him, who's powers are not merely impressive but... supernatural, magical, and unbelievable. Perhaps this has something to do with his dreams....

Jopustopin took some time off towards the end of the year to spend time in Iraq, where the rumored tower of Babel supposedly once stood.

https://www.jerrysartarama.com/blog/images/2013/08/selfie.jpg
Jopustopin

male middle aged human warblade 4
CN medium humanoid (human)
Init -8; Senses spot +1, listen +1
Languages Common, Ancient SuloiseAC 11 (+4 armor, -2 Dex, -1 Flaw), Touch 7, Flat-footed 11; Uncanny Dodge
HP 27/27 (4d12-4)
Fort +5, Ref -1, Will +2 (Battle Clarity)Speed 30 ft.
Melee longsword +4 (1d8-1/19-20)
Ranged dagger +3 (1d4-1/19-20)
Base Atk +4; Grp +3
Special Battle ArdorManeuvers and Stances Known (IL 4th):

Stances-Bolstering Voice, Punishing Stance
Strikes- Stone Bones, Mountain Hammer
Boosts-Sudden Leap
Counters-Moment of Perfect Mind, Wall of Blades
Abilities Str 9, Dex 7, Con 8, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 17
Skills Spellcraft +8, Concentration +6, Jump +6, Tumble +5, Swim, +3, Balance +3, Knowledge (History) +2, Knowledge (Local) +2, Knowledge (The Planes) +4, Martial Lore +2, Profession (Actor) +5
Skill Points Spellcraft 5, Concentration 7, Jump 7, Tumble 7, Balance 5, Swim 4, Knowledge (History) 1, Knowledge (Local) 1, Knowledge (the planes) 1, Martial Lore 1, Profession (Actor) 2
Feats Keeper of Forbidden Lore, Otherwordly Countenance (Beauty), Great Fortitude, Combat Casting
Flaws Unreactive, Vulnerable
Possessions swimming pool, mwk trusty longsword, mwk dagger, mithril chain shirt, Net Worth ($3,142,212 USA)

2019 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23607039&postcount=25)
2020 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24335853&postcount=40)
2021 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24885560&postcount=137)

ben-zayb

2022-01-16, 12:24 AM

Finally, Telepath 7 opens up Psychic Reformation ridiculousness. The weekly XP goes up to 140/week, which means I can manifest it "fairly" ~1.5 to ~11 times a month. Shelling out 50-350xp to readjust feats/skills/powers known will be very handy, and that's before it gets broken.

@Troacctid:

I've had a crafting item feat from as early level 1 but I wasn't able to clarify back then that XP wasn't a river so I just assumed I crafted to my heart's content. Can I now post all my limited yearly XP expenditures from 2016?
Can Expanded Knowledge be used to learn a spell-to-erudite power version of a spell?
Can we refluff magic item appearance, such as crafting a Third Eye Sense as a mask or a pair of glasses or crafting a Boots of Skating as a pair of sandals or dress shoes?
Can we add magic item effects from a Wondrous/Universal item into an existing Wondrous/Universal item of the same slot?
Is it safe to assume that RAW will be followed when it comes to psionic recharge tricks (i.e. they work)?
Are you familiar with the Psionic Tattoo Mastery and the special psionic tattoos? These are all from the "Getting Rewired" article, but it looks like the Wizards archives isn't accessible for the past few days. Is it safe to assume that pure RAW will be followed when it comes to these tattoos? For example, a Psionic Tattoo of Psychic Reformation linked to a fully-charged Capacitor doesn't fade when used, but the only time XP cost will ever be paid will be during its crafting. (446XP = 96XP as base crafting cost + 50XP base spell cost + 300XP extra spell cost for 6 additional levels of reformation)

Troacctid

2022-01-16, 02:09 AM

I've had a crafting item feat from as early level 1 but I wasn't able to clarify back then that XP wasn't a river so I just assumed I crafted to my heart's content. Can I now post all my limited yearly XP expenditures from 2016?
Can Expanded Knowledge be used to learn a spell-to-erudite power version of a spell?
Can we refluff magic item appearance, such as crafting a Third Eye Sense as a mask or a pair of glasses or crafting a Boots of Skating as a pair of sandals or dress shoes?
Can we add magic item effects from a Wondrous/Universal item into an existing Wondrous/Universal item of the same slot?
Is it safe to assume that RAW will be followed when it comes to psionic recharge tricks (i.e. they work)?
Are you familiar with the Psionic Tattoo Mastery and the special psionic tattoos? These are all from the "Getting Rewired" article, but it looks like the Wizards archives isn't accessible for the past few days. Is it safe to assume that pure RAW will be followed when it comes to these tattoos? For example, a Psionic Tattoo of Psychic Reformation linked to a fully-charged Capacitor doesn't fade when used, but the only time XP cost will ever be paid will be during its crafting. (446XP = 96XP as base crafting cost + 50XP base spell cost + 300XP extra spell cost for 6 additional levels of reformation)
Yes, no, yes, yes, no, and 3.0 psionics are defunct.

ben-zayb

2022-01-16, 02:41 AM

Yes, no, yes, yes, no, and 3.0 psionics are defunct.

Thanks for the quick reply. Is it just 3.0 psionics that isn't available, or does this apply to any un-updated 3.0 materials from books like Oriental Adventures and Savage Species?

Troacctid

2022-01-16, 03:03 AM

Thanks for the quick reply. Is it just 3.0 psionics that isn't available, or does this apply to any un-updated 3.0 materials from books like Oriental Adventures and Savage Species?
3.0 psionics are broadly unavailable. Other unupdated 3.0 material is probably okay, but may not work as expected due to the changes inherent in the revision. Use it at your own risk.

H_H_F_F

2022-01-16, 03:10 AM

Troacctid, how far does refluffing go? There's plenty of sculpt self foci I would go for if it wasn't for their fluff physical and mental/emotional ramifications. Can those be reworked as well, to something else that's fitting? If so, I'd like to do that.

(I guess since custom race alterations were approved I could always make a "custom" one that is mechanically identical but has different fluff. As I said last year though, I'd like to take the RAI road on this one) Also, whale-friend.

Troacctid

2022-01-16, 03:14 AM

H_H_F_F

2022-01-16, 03:22 AM

You don't have this information when you make your decision.

I'm not sure I got the answer. I should act as if I don't know what the different foci do?

Or do I know what they'll "naturally" (aka as written) do, and I just can not tell whether or not an attempt at reshaping (AKA refluffing) would work?

Troacctid

2022-01-16, 11:08 AM

Or do I know what they'll "naturally" (aka as written) do, and I just can not tell whether or not an attempt at reshaping (AKA refluffing) would work?
That's correct.

digiman619

2022-01-16, 02:11 PM

I now have my 6th level of Monk of the Four Winds. 14 more levels until I am immortal.

Jack_Simth

2022-01-16, 02:20 PM

I now have my 6th level of Monk of the Four Winds. 14 more levels until I am immortal.

I found my immortality early with manufactured minions. Another 3 years until I get my automatic Raise Dead, and 13 until I get the gem I am after.

Telonius

2022-01-16, 03:31 PM

I'll have Timeless Body in 8 years. After that, if we get to Epic, I'll probably take Extended Life Span every few years until I get bored.

Crichton

2022-01-16, 04:06 PM

Eldest

2022-01-19, 01:50 PM

I see an opportunity for mutual benefit. It's going to be a while yet before the option is available, but we can make a mutual agreement for Psychic Chirurgery, so you can get access to spell-to-power erudite versions of spells, and I can get access to 9th level Telepath powers. If we found other Psions we trust, we could even get a chain of Chirurgery going so we all teach each other 9ths and/or spell-converted powers. Create for ourselves a powerful, mysterious, loose-knit secret society that lurks behind the scenes for generations and protects psionics and psionic-related agendas and..... isn't that how Elans came to be a thing? This has potential!

Annnnnd this is why I want to establish friendly relationships in advance. Spellcasters of any stripe hitting 4th level spells.

Rebel7284

2022-01-19, 04:47 PM

Meh, skipped this for the past couple of years, but better late than never.

Conjurer 1 (abrupt jaunt)

edit: 3.5
8/11/12/13/9/10

Iron Will
Reserves of Strength

ben-zayb

2022-01-20, 01:17 PM

Here's my list of XP expenditures since 2016. Gold cost would be trivial as already demonstrated in the past threads, especially for a Telepath with maxed Diplomacy with additional bonuses.
XP spent 2016 (400 / 1000xp)
400xp: x100 Power Stone (4 powers ML1: Psionic Charm, Empathy, Attraction, Psionic Minor Creation)
XP spent 2017 (1200 / 2000xp)
1200xp: x100 Power Stone (6 powers ML2: Psionic Charm, Empathy, Attraction, Psionic Minor Creation, Skate, Vigor)
XP spent 2018 (2824 / 3000xp)
280xp: Boots of Skating
144xp: Mirror of Suggestion
2400xp: x100 Power Stone (6 powers ML3: Share Pain, Psionic Suggestion, Psionic Charm, Empathy, Attraction, Psionic Minor Creation)
XP spent 2019 (4000 / 4000xp)
4000xp: x100 Power Stone (6 powers ML4: Detect Hostile Intent, Read Thoughts, Share Pain, Psionic Suggestion, Psionic Charm, Vigor)
XP spent 2020 (4000 / 5000xp)

2000xp: x50 Power Stone (5 powers ML5: Time Hop, Forced Dream, Psionic Charm, Attraction)
2000xp: x50 Power Stone (6 powers ML5: Time Hop, Psionic Suggestion, Psionic Charm, Empathy, Vigor)
XP spent 2021 (4000 / 6000xp)

960xp: Third Eye Sense (refluffed into reading glasses)
1600xp: x40 Power Stone (5 powers ML5: Body Adjustment, Psionic Suggestion, Psionic Charm, Empathy, Attraction)
1440xp: x40 Power Stone (4 powers ML6: Body Purification, Psionic Charm, Empathy, Vigor)

I see an opportunity for mutual benefit. It's going to be a while yet before the option is available, but we can make a mutual agreement for Psychic Chirurgery, so you can get access to spell-to-power erudite versions of spells, and I can get access to 9th level Telepath powers. If we found other Psions we trust, we could even get a chain of Chirurgery going so we all teach each other 9ths and/or spell-converted powers. Create for ourselves a powerful, mysterious, loose-knit secret society that lurks behind the scenes for generations and protects psionics and psionic-related agendas and..... isn't that how Elans came to be a thing? This has potential!It's quite far in the future but that definitely can be arranged.

Annnnnd this is why I want to establish friendly relationships in advance. Spellcasters of any stripe hitting 4th level spells.Not even casters per se, but I think it's a good idea to establish relationships with anyone that has potent crafting abilities. Especially with this long game type of deal.

@everyone Since I already have Third Eye Sense, I now have free Clairvoyant Sense services 1/day. I'll be using online street mapping services for purposes of familiarity, so anything that can be searched further based on that level of familiarity should be fair game.

Jack_Simth

2022-01-20, 06:34 PM

It's quite far in the future but that definitely can be arranged.
Not even casters per se, but I think it's a good idea to establish relationships with anyone that has potent crafting abilities. Especially with this long game type of deal.

@everyone Since I already have Third Eye Sense, I now have free Clairvoyant Sense services 1/day. I'll be using online street mapping services for purposes of familiarity, so anything that can be searched further based on that level of familiarity should be fair game.
Yes, in this scenario, powerful crafting abilities are very nice. Pathfinder's crafting rules especially so. Picking my squads of construct minions made that very clear.

We'll probably empty out a few charity hospitals, just for fun. Solars get Remove Disease and Lesser Restoration as at-wills. I should probably also make an Exscinder for the at-will Cure Light, Modify Memory, and divinations.

And my immortality is external, so I can share with friends.

Which reminds me: I need to set up my buff list at some point.

bekeleven

2022-01-21, 12:27 AM

Kalkra

2022-01-21, 11:00 AM

I'm not doing anything flashy... but that's by design. I'll keep being me, just with +11 to some social skills and better night vision. It really is a shame how few invocations warlocks actually get, but as long as I don't plan on combat, most of them aren't useful to me anyway.

Honestly, even if you are planning on combat, most of the combat options that any class offers are significantly inferior to just getting a gun until you hit pretty high levels. I mean sure, things like invisibility and teleportation can be very useful, but the whole classes of save-or-die/suck and direct damage are usually just worse than shooting your target with a gun.

Peelee

2022-01-21, 11:04 AM

Honestly, even if you are planning on combat, most of the combat options that any class offers are significantly inferior to just getting a gun until you hit pretty high levels. I mean sure, things like invisibility and teleportation can be very useful, but the whole classes of save-or-die/suck and direct damage are usually just worse than shooting your target with a gun.

https://c.tenor.com/HhtqNGdYclkAAAAC/zoidberg-futurama.gif

Geopol4r

2022-01-21, 12:06 PM

Hoorah. Using 3.5, I am now a level 1 Paladin of Freedom. Human feat: Power attack. Lvl 1 feat: cleave.

Stats: Int 12, Dex 12, 14 Wis, 12 Cha, 17 Str, 12 Con. Overall, pretty lucky for 3d6.:smallbiggrin:
Skill points: 2 in intimidate, 2 in bluff, 4 in climb, 2 in swim, 2 in Use Rope, 4 in autohypnosis. Of course, everything except for bluff is halved.
I am in silk clothing, because AMERICA! Also, detect jerk at will.

Seward

2022-01-21, 12:43 PM

I hope you are just intending on chopping wood with those feats. Or I'm not standing next to your target when you get your cleave opportunity :)

H_H_F_F

2022-01-21, 03:22 PM

Jack_Simth

2022-01-22, 07:30 AM

Pathfinder has a section on Intentionally Crafting Cursed Items (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/Magic-items/cursed-items/#Intentionally_Crafting_Cursed_Items).

As I don't really want my personal equipment in the hands of others, I do that.

So for all the items intended for personal use, I (or my crafting minions) add:
1) Requirement: Must have a specific skill (Spellcraft, which I have natively, needed for crafting).
2) Intermittent Functioning(Dependent): Within ten feet of a half-elf (I qualify due to Racial Heritage, and I am always within ten feet of myself, and so is any item I carry)
3) Intermittent Functioning(Dependent): Within ten feet of a Divine Caster (which I am, and again: I am always within ten feet of myself)

As a bonus, I get a discount that way (which theoretically also applies to crafting time, as it changes the market price, and the write-up for deliberately cursed items included making money quickly).
1) 10%
2) 30%
3) 30%

Depending on which math this aspect uses (real world or D&D maths), that's either a 30% of normal cost and time (1-0.10-0.30-0.30=0.30) 44.1% of normal costs (0.9×0.7×0.7=0.441)

Also available when Intentionally Crafting Cursed Items (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/Magic-items/cursed-items/#Intentionally_Crafting_Cursed_Items): Drawbacks (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/Magic-items/cursed-items/#TOC-Table:-Drawbacks)!

You take a cheap, easily concealed item: Sleeves of Many Garments (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/r-z/sleeves-of-many-garments/), perhaps, and make several, adding drawbacks to their use, setting them to the "as long as they're worn" type. The good ones for this:
"Character’s hair color changes."
"Character’s skin color changes."
"Character’s gender changes."

Set those on crafting the item. Make many.
The first one, of course, is exactly as you are (for going back).
Every other one? Different set. Change equipment, and you change many of the identifying marks of yourself. You can be a light-skinned blond girl, a dark skinned man with black hair, or anything in between. Someone might think you look familiar (there's no listed options for changing your face around this way), but you're really not going to be associated with things done in an alternate ID.

Another option is to mix & match. Fill out each category with items that go in different slots (each option you like), so you might have five hair color options, four skin color options, and two gender options.

Hoorah. Using 3.5, I am now a level 1 Paladin of Freedom.

Then suddenly, Jopustopin gains a level! It's in Warblade!
I am curious as to your choice of class. Why melee?
Yes, they come with a lot of low-level survivability, but seriously: when was the last time you got in a serious scuffle in real life?

H_H_F_F

2022-01-22, 07:52 AM

I am curious as to your choice of class. Why melee?
Yes, they come with a lot of low-level survivability, but seriously: when was the last time you got in a serious scuffle in real life?

As someone who considered going melee:
1. We don't all live the same lives. Violence may be more of a reality to some of us than to you.
2. Being magically capable is would be extremely useful. Being physically capable feels good, in a way that having useful tools don't.

Jack_Simth

2022-01-22, 08:21 AM

As someone who considered going melee:
1. We don't all live the same lives. Violence may be more of a reality to some of us than to you.

You still have all your real-life capabilities in this scenario. If you've survived this long normally, all you need to do is ... keep up those habits despite your new power for a few years. Do you honestly have reason to believe you'll be killed within the next year?

2. Being magically capable is would be extremely useful. Being physically capable feels good, in a way that having useful tools don't.
Even if non-gaming you isn't combat capable, if the general assumptions about the real-life folks' capabilities (mapped to D&D/Pathfinder) is correct, then earth is basically a mundane low level world. The guy who wins the World Mixed Martial Arts competition is probably something like a Monk or Fighter 5. Your basic mugger might be a warrior-2. A Cleric or Druid build (3/4 bab, d8 HD) will be slightly delayed on pure combat options compared to a Fighter/Warblade/Paladin/et cetera, but unless you're getting in multiple serious fights per day, even at level one you'll do very well - Divine Favor or Produce Flame will generally carry the day just fine (unless you're regularly ambushed or something), and Cure Light Wounds will clean up after.

Setting that aside: A basic 3/4ths casting chassis picks up plenty of combat prowess, it's just delayed. A 4th level Cleric or Druid has +3 BAB and 4d8 hit dice. More than that warrior-2. At 10th? +7 BAB, 7d8 hit dice. More than that guy who won the World MMA competition. And if you picked up Craft Wondrous, your stats are likely better across the board, too. Even a Wizard gets half BAB, and will be matching the World MMA champ on basic combat capability by tenth or so.

Jopustopin

2022-01-22, 09:28 AM

I am curious as to your choice of class. Why melee?
Yes, they come with a lot of low-level survivability, but seriously: when was the last time you got in a serious scuffle in real life?

Well I really don't remember why I originally went warblade but looking back it was clear that I was going for Suel Arcanamach prestige class so if I live long enough I'll get some spellcasting, fear not!
I probably picked warblade just to be different though. I recall looking to see what everyone else was doing and then not doing that. I have fun writing my dudes year in the life recap each time too. Wonder if he'll find the Grimoire Arcanamacha in some ancient ruins this year.

Who wants to form a party this year?

Wildstag

2022-01-22, 09:41 AM

I am curious as to your choice of class. Why melee?
Yes, they come with a lot of low-level survivability, but seriously: when was the last time you got in a serious scuffle in real life?

Honestly, I’ve avoided them in the last few years because of fear of doing time. But there are definitely some jerks out there that pick fights and deserve a bruising in my life.

I think the question can be flipped too. Why caster? If this is a low-power setting already, we’ve gotten by fine with ONLY martials, so what need does magic fulfill that hasn’t already?

Jack_Simth

2022-01-22, 09:44 AM

Well I really don't remember why I originally went warblade but looking back it was clear that I was going for Suel Arcanamach prestige class so if I live long enough I'll get some spellcasting, fear not!
I probably picked warblade just to be different though. I recall looking to see what everyone else was doing and then not doing that. I have fun writing my dudes year in the life recap each time too. Wonder if he'll find the Grimoire Arcanamacha in some ancient ruins this year.

Who wants to form a party this year?

Dunno. Would you really want to party with an Angel Summoner?
... although I suppose I could throw very nice parties. Magic makes wealth very easy to come by.

Oh. We're on different chains, though. I'm using Pathfinder with a little 3rd party...

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-22, 10:00 AM

Here's my list of XP expenditures since 2016. Gold cost would be trivial as already demonstrated in the past threads
I don't suppose you could remind me of those methods? Are you selling items (which means your available XP should decrease), stealing stuff, or entering a lucrative profession with your new skillset and powers?
If that last guess is correct, I'll remind you that you're working over two hundred days a year as an full-time item crafter, which takes 8 hours a day and will likely seriously impede your ability to hold a job.
Yes, I've been grappling with the logistics of full-time crafting myself. My current best plan is "devote some of me XP to sell specific items at massive prices" so I've been picking through books to find stuff that I think would sell very well. Hat of Disguise for spooks whose agencies can afford big prices thanks to their cocaine slush funds, Heward's Fortifying Bedroll for billionaires or star CEOS or whoever wants to add more effective hours to their life and/or stay on top of crisis response, etc. If you've got a better way to get money, I'd be quite interested in hearing it!

@everyone Since I already have Third Eye Sense, I now have free Clairvoyant Sense services 1/day.
IIRC the item works at-will in the MIC. Or do you mean you're offering other people 1/day free services?
I'd considered making a Third Eye Sense (its potential as a moneymaker seems massive and I was lured in by the CL 3) but I'll have to wait another few years to get the prerequisite spell.

H_H_F_F

2022-01-22, 10:30 AM

I've been rethinking my position from last year about not using custom prestige race alterations with my sculpt self feat. I'm not sure yet I will, but I'm thinking about making a wilderness focus, opposed to the gear focus in a way that is akin to the opposing elemental foci. A couple of questions about that:

1: It was stated last year that I'd need to research my meditative focus on wilderness, akin to spell research.
So, question 1A is, how do I determine the equivalent spell level of the prestige race alteration, and do I still need to do a spellcraft check, or can it be replaced with a more appropriate check?
Question 1B is, do I have to research my own spiritual and physical focus in some big lab in a large city? Could I instead devote the same amount of time and resources to like, traveling or voulenteering in wild life sanctuaries to research that alteration?

2. Do I get to write the fluff implications my custom race alteration has on my physical/emotional status, or is it again something I'll only discover once I've done it? I remember someone explicitly working on turning into a TARDIS, so I'm assuming the former, but perhaps I'm mistaken?
Could I devote all this effort to becoming closer to nature and to my own core only to become some mushroomy mess with memory difficulties or something?

Edit: spell research lets the DM inform you at the end of research that the spell doesn't work. So, could I just write down the focus, including fluff, and simply be informed whther or not the research was succesful?

ben-zayb

2022-01-22, 02:04 PM

I don't suppose you could remind me of those methods? Are you selling items (which means your available XP should decrease), stealing stuff, or entering a lucrative profession with your new skillset and powers?
If that last guess is correct, I'll remind you that you're working over two hundred days a year as an full-time item crafter, which takes 8 hours a day and will likely seriously impede your ability to hold a job.Not all professions demand the same time commitment. Added to this are mind-affecting charm/compulsion effects and souped-up diplomacy that are readily available to compound my performance, and more professions that don't really take more than a few hours of attention per week will open up.

I've limited myself to crafting ~100 items a year, each costing <1000g. That's 100 days of eight-hour crafting time each, which is approximately less than the amount of weekends in a year.

Yes, I've been grappling with the logistics of full-time crafting myself... If you've got a better way to get money, I'd be quite interested in hearing it!I still plan on enjoying my life, so I don't plan on becoming a full-time crafter. I really can't discuss how I plan on raising my financial capabilities due to forum rules, but those who were paying attention to my previous post may be able to conclude some of the more obvious ones. Suffice to say, finances shouldn't even be a massive issue as early as Telepath 1, more so Telepath 3.

IIRC the item works at-will in the MIC. Or do you mean you're offering other people 1/day free services?The latter. Even if the item is at will, I can only offer so much free time using it. Had Troacctid allowed 3.0 psionics, I would've use it to at least have around 10 standard actions per round and help more.

Troacctid

2022-01-22, 02:54 PM

H_H_F_F

2022-01-22, 03:22 PM

Don't ask me what magic research looks like, I've never done it before. 🤷

All I can tell you is it takes time and xp and you don't know if it worked until afterwards. Since you're spending xp, you also won't be able to earn xp while you're doing your research.

My copy of the DMG says only time and money to research spells, though I'd be willing to spend XP instead.

I'm sort of unclear right now on the rules here. By the rules presented in alter self, I just need to calculate xp cost and I can go ahead and make a custom prestige alteration.

As the pseudo-dm, you introduced some modifications/house rules, mandating research to be made. Fine by me - but how can I abide by these rules without guidelines to questions like determining spell level, etc?

In short, I feel I need some guidance. If you'd like to solve this ad-hoc instead of providing general rules for researching prestige race alterations, I can write down the new Wilderness Focus and you could let me know how I could go about researching it.

Troacctid

2022-01-22, 03:51 PM

I'm sort of unclear right now on the rules here. By the rules presented in alter self, I just need to calculate xp cost and I can go ahead and make a custom prestige alteration.
(By the rules presented in Sculpt Self, the DM can do that. No such ability is conferred to the PCs.)

As the pseudo-dm, you introduced some modifications/house rules, mandating research to be made. Fine by me - but how can I abide by these rules without guidelines to questions like determining spell level, etc?

In short, I feel I need some guidance. If you'd like to solve this ad-hoc instead of providing general rules for researching prestige race alterations, I can write down the new Wilderness Focus and you could let me know how I could go about researching it.
You have the guidelines in the FAQ. If that doesn't feel sufficient, well, when you're the first person to attempt something that's never been done before and might not even be possible, figuring out exactly how to go about it is part of the research.

Jack_Simth

2022-01-22, 06:45 PM

Oh, hey. Pathfinder has Retraining rules (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/more-character-options/retraining/). So I can have my paintings teach me feats, and swap them out. Handy, not using Scribe Scroll at all, and probably want to stay away from minor components....

Of additional use is that it means I can customize my paintings to be more useful. Trade lower value feats (Improved Sunder, Improved Critical, et cetera) for higher value feats (Craft Wondrous, Craft Magic Arms & Armor). And when I get Forge Ring or Craft Rod, they can do those, too. Handy.... save my time via teaching the first one, and having it teach the others....

aglondier

2022-01-22, 08:09 PM

Pathfinder has a section on Intentionally Crafting Cursed Items (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/Magic-items/cursed-items/#Intentionally_Crafting_Cursed_Items).

As I don't really want my personal equipment in the hands of others, I do that.

So for all the items intended for personal use, I (or my crafting minions) add:
1) Requirement: Must have a specific skill (Spellcraft, which I have natively, needed for crafting).
2) Intermittent Functioning(Dependent): Within ten feet of a half-elf (I qualify due to Racial Heritage, and I am always within ten feet of myself, and so is any item I carry)
3) Intermittent Functioning(Dependent): Within ten feet of a Divine Caster (which I am, and again: I am always within ten feet of myself)

As a bonus, I get a discount that way (which theoretically also applies to crafting time, as it changes the market price, and the write-up for deliberately cursed items included making money quickly).
1) 10%
2) 30%
3) 30%

Depending on which math this aspect uses (real world or D&D maths), that's either a 30% of normal cost and time (1-0.10-0.30-0.30=0.30) 44.1% of normal costs (0.9×0.7×0.7=0.441)

Can't believe I forgot that. That is going to make next years expenditures a lot cheaper, and more secure. Thanks.

As for life/research/work balance, well, I work on whatever for 5 days a week, spend my Saturday selling my spellcasting services, and take Sunday as a rest day. I also take public holidays and family celebrations off.
I maintain a moderate monthly lifestyle (10gp/month), and spend 10gp each public holiday and birthday, and 80gp at Christmas.
Probably more detail than most are interested in going into, but since I'm using Pathfinder's downtime rules, it helps to have everything on a spreadsheet.

Having an extensive and well equipped Wizard's Tower will make life much easier in the coming years. Building businesses and town infrastructure will help a lot too. I have tentatively calculated that within 6 years I'll be earning somewhere in the vicinity of 500gp per day, which will make level 7 and Forge Ring very interesting...but where am I going to find 3 elves to go with my 7 dwarves and 9 men?

bekeleven

2022-01-23, 01:10 AM

Guess I'll become a second-level warlock, for the same reasons as I took my first level:

Abilities are subtle (don't want to get vanned)
Abilities include buffs to social skills, which are useful in everyday life
Abilities also include (eventually) things like invisiblity and magical item crafting
Doesn't require any high stats.
None of my class features require magical items, magical inks, knowstones, or even fancy weapons that I wouldn't be able to find IRL.

My build is probably along the lines of:
Neutral Human Warlock 2
8/11/9/13/10/12
Skills: Bluff +5, Diplomacy +2 (2.5 ranks), Sense Motive +5, UMD +5
Feats: ??? (might have several: According to empirical data I have almost every flaw :smalltongue:)
Class Features: Eldritch Blast 1D6, Detect Magic at will
Invocations: Beguiling Influence, See the Unseen.

I'm not doing anything flashy... but that's by design. I'll keep being me, just with +11 to some social skills and better night vision. It really is a shame how few invocations warlocks actually get, but as long as I don't plan on combat, most of them aren't useful to me anyway.

Ok, I've done a bit more work on this.

Chaotic Neutral Human Warlock 2
8/11/9/13/10/12
Feats: Murky Eyed (Flaw), Grudge Keeper (Flaw). Feats: Able Learner (1), Silver Tongue (Human), Noble Born (+Flaw), Slow Maturation (+Flaw). 4 feats that all require first level, how'd that happen?
Skills (20 ranks): Bluff 5 ranks, Diplomacy 5 ranks, Intimidate 4 ranks, Knowledge (Arcana) 1 ranks, Sense Motive 5 ranks.
Class Features and Invocations: Eldritch Blast 1D6, Detect Magic, Beguiling Influence, Call of the Beast.

Skills at this point: Bluff +12 (5 Ranks, 1 Cha, 6 Influence), Diplomacy +18 (5 Ranks, 1 Cha, 6 Influence, 4 Synergy), Intimidate +13 (4 Ranks, 1 Cha, 6 Influence, 2 Synergy), Knowledge (Arcana) +2 (1 Ranks, 1 Int), Sense Motive +5 (5 Ranks)

Phew, got all the mindbender prereqs out of the way. Next I need to pump Arcana for obtain familiar, throw 1 rank into a bunch of knowledges, then figure out future crafting stuff. Maybe throw some ranks into profession.

H_H_F_F

2022-01-23, 06:49 AM

Okay, I'll work a wilderness focus out.

One last clarification question: can each of the 4 steps only emulate 1 item, or can they emulate several less pricy items?

And when specifying that we are limited to "two such Foci", are we talking about being limited to two custom foci or to two foci, total?

Jack_Simth

2022-01-23, 08:59 AM

Can't believe I forgot that. That is going to make next years expenditures a lot cheaper, and more secure. Thanks.Glad to help, although for me, neither the time nor money investment actually matters at this point. I make minions that make stuff for me, and in the modern world, if you have magic, money is really easy to come by (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25330015&postcount=171).
As a Healer: A Solar (of which I make several) get Remove Disease and Lesser Restoration as at-wills; resurrection and Heal 3/day; Greater Restoration and Wish 1/day; oh yes, also 20th level Cleric casting and Alter Self at will. Proper, repeatable, at-will healings make the "as a healer" REALLY go sky high. Also good diplomacy.
Playing Stocks: Solar gets at-will Commune. This makes playing with stocks a breeze (Get list of stocks. For each: "Will this stock be up by more than 50% from today in one week?") ...and the Diplomacy check is good for when the SEC comes knocking.
Hollywood: A Muse (which I created for making my paintings for the rest) has very good perform checks (+37), and can use those for many other skills (Diplomacy, Bluff, Disguise, Sense Motive...) and shapeshifts. Can pretty much go straight to Hollywood and be an instant super star. Or I give her a few pages of spell knowledge (Major Image, Mirage Arcana), a camera, and have her create her own "big budget effects movies" in an empty studio - very, very quickly (unattended nonmagical objects don't get saves, so the camera always sees the illusion; folks carefully examining the footage later might figure out it's fake but... well, Hollywood...).
Sports team help goes faster when crafting time is a non-issue (I teach Craft Wondrous and Craft Magic Arms & Armor to my minions).
Theft becomes trivial when my sky dragon has invisibility and dimension door, but there's better things for him to do.
Cheating at the casino don't improve much.... but really don't need to at this point.

And of course, the special abilities of some creatures open up completely new avenues, too:The Pleroma (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/aeon/aeon-pleroma/) has a 3/day ability to create mater ("of a single natural substance (such as clay, wood, or stone).") Additionally, it gets Fabricate as a 7/day spell-like.
All precious metals and and gemstones are derived from (or directly are) a natural substance - various ores, mostly, but amber comes from plants and pearls come from oysters - which the Pleroma can make via it's 3/day, and then refine or cut with Fabricate (may have the Muse do it via Page of Spell Knowledge due to her better Craft check). So Platinum, Gold, Silver, Copper, Iron, Diamonds, Rubys, Emeralds, Sapphires, Jacinth, Onyx, et cetera are all easily accessible - in quantity, for precious metals/gemstones - once you have one of these. And they've got 20th level Cleric casting, too.
*Most* (not all) folks who don't look like what they want still want to be human. Many Great Wyrm Dragons in Pathfinder 9th level arcane spells, and a lot of them also get Change Shape. A page of spell knowledge for Polymorph Any Object turns them into quite the plastic surgeons. Minor Image lets them preview the result for the client. Human -> Human will usually hit all the duration checkboxes, so it's quite Permanent. Ranges from that actress who'd like to dump a few wrinkles or lose a few pounds to folks who want to hop the fence or find out if they really are treated differently with a different skin color.

Edit:
And... oh. Hmm. Well, fortunately, Trompe L’oeil's inherit the alignment of their maker (when deliberately made). Because a Succubus has some really nice options (I'm looking at Profane Temptations, Gift of Transformation). +2 to an ability score, and I get at-will shapeshifting, with the drawback being telepathic communication to a minion under my control (which I can simply order to not use it's spell-likes on me).

Hmm. A succubus in real life would be really, really scary for a government, wouldn't it? Bluff +27, Diplomacy +19, Disguise +19 (more with the at-will Change Shape!), Intimidate +16, and Sense Motive +13; Tongues, Telepathy, Detect Thoughts, Suggestion, Ethereal Jaunt, Greater Teleport, and Charm Monster all at will or constantly; Dominate Person and that very interesting Profane Gift 1/day. Can get basically anywhere very easily (Ethereal Jaunt, Greater Teleport), impersonate just about anyone very effectively (Disguise, Bluff, Change Shape), control nearly anyone (Charm Monster, Suggestion - which also helps getting to the movers & shakers), and the 1/day Profane Gift makes permanently linking to a mover & shaker easy (spam Suggestion on them afterwards until it takes). Dictatorships would be easier to manipulate (just need to subborn the ruler and key power players), Representative Republics harder (more folks that need to be controlled, as the power is spread out... and they change periodically, so you have to refresh your control), Makes a nice choice for mass production to try and clean up the world situation. Lucky for the world, I don't care to rule. But I will keep one on file for the special ability boost and shapechanging.

Troacctid

2022-01-23, 01:30 PM

Jack_Simth

2022-01-23, 03:36 PM

Oh yes, I can now also clean up the power and disposal industries.

Buy a coal-fired power plant.
Have one of my Solar paintings replace the burners with Wall of Fire and Permanency.

The place is much less expensive to run (don't need to buy, move, or manage fuel). And of course, no burning coal means no more coal smoke. Cheap, clean energy. I can out-complete most other forms of power plants this way. Which means buying and converting more coal plants.
Make a demiplane, timeless with respect to magic. Spell + Permanency, my Solar does this.
My Great Wyrm sky dragon casts Prismatic Wall in there.
My Gate Archon creates a portal there, landing at the endge of the prismatic wall.
Throw stuff through the gate, it lands in the prismatic wall, and is GONE.

No more garbage, with no need for landfills.

Telonius

2022-01-23, 10:48 PM

Honestly, I’ve avoided them in the last few years because of fear of doing time. But there are definitely some jerks out there that pick fights and deserve a bruising in my life.

I think the question can be flipped too. Why caster? If this is a low-power setting already, we’ve gotten by fine with ONLY martials, so what need does magic fulfill that hasn’t already?

For me, medical issues. Science will eventually figure out how to cure progressive hearing loss, and (for my family) Ehlers-Danlos syndrome. But if divine magic can take care of it years before science can catch up (and without even a co-pay), I'm all over that.

Jack_Simth

2022-01-24, 07:18 AM

Honestly, I’ve avoided them in the last few years because of fear of doing time. But there are definitely some jerks out there that pick fights and deserve a bruising in my life.
Can do that as a caster, too, it just looks a little different.

Or it looks the same. A Cleric-7 has as much BAB as a Fighter-5, and as many hit points from the base hit dice as well (max first + average? 5d10=32, vs. 7d8=35), and can make up any additional discrepancies in combat prowess via crafted items (which a Fighter has a much harder time creating). It just takes slightly longer.

I think the question can be flipped too. Why caster? If this is a low-power setting already, we’ve gotten by fine with ONLY martials, so what need does magic fulfill that hasn’t already?
'Gotten by fine' is true. And a martial can thrive well enough.

But D&D/Pathfinder magic lets you share your good fortune with your family (whether they're by genetics or not).

Sure, a +10 fort save means you shake off basically any real-life disease in a few days.
Being able to cast Remove Disease spell means you shake off any disease as soon as you notice, and you can cure your family.

Sure, +7 BAB, 16 strength, 14 Con, 7d10 hit dice, and a few combat feats likely makes you a great bruiser on the planet. You've got nothing to worry about if someone takes a swing at you.
Craft Construct lets you create bodyguards that are the best bruisers on the planet (wearable, even (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/tattoo-guardian/), but do modify it a bit (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/building-and-modifying-constructs/)). You get that, and for your family, too.

Sure, as a martial, you may eventually be able to take Extended Lifespan every few decades and be effectively ageless yourself.
Eventually, Astral Projection + a timeless demiplane can let you be ageless, and share that state with your family.

Sure, you can hop on an airplane and fly to the other side of the world in less than a day (assuming you've got your visa for the destination in your passport).
As a caster, not only can I just teleport there, but if I like, I can set up a network of Teleportation Circles linked at international airports so long distance travel is about as convenient as the bus, for everyone (note: doing it at airports is so customs can get involved conveniently if they want - they're already set up there).

And there's stuff magic lets you do that technology and money might, eventually, if we're all lucky.
Set up shop on Mars? A Necklace of Adaptation (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/m-p/necklace-of-adaptation), Arcane Eye (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/arcane-eye), and Greater Teleport (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/teleport/) get you there (and a few passengers as well, whom you can set up to feed themselves (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/r-z/sustaining-spoon/) if you're not arranging for Heroes' Feast or something).

Clean energy? Permanent Walls of Fire can run the boilers at coal or nuclear power plants.

Waste disposal? Permanent Prismatic Walls destroy everything that comes in contact with them. Bio-hazardous, toxic, radioactive? The violet layer doesn't care. It's all gone.

Unsatisfied with your height (or just about anything else about your body)? Polymorph Any Object has you covered.

El Dorado

2022-01-24, 11:44 PM

My long-term plan is gaining the arcane discovery of immortality at 20th level. It gets rid of any accrued aging penalties so that'll be nice. In the meantime, craft an amulet of age resistance to stave off age penalties. As the years pass, a greater hat of disguise will be needed. Will also set up different mundane homesteads/identities around the world (really glad I'm learning all of these languages). Access to mage's magnificent mansion is almost a decade away. Even with that spell, will have to find out more about other extra planar abodes. Hopefully that won't be too necessary---I fancy myself an (earth-bound) homebody.

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-25, 03:00 AM

Immortality is a fairly easy problem to solve once you get enough levels. Instead, I've been looking for easy ways to help out ESA (or NASA if you're American) at low/mid levels, while still following the "no custom items" rule. Obviously at high levels you can just Greater Teleport an astronaut to Mars to gather samples or whatever, and eventually build a Stronghold space that can bring passengers from planet to planet. But in the meantime, here's what I've come up with:

Weeping Flask seems very very easy to make, and creates 8 ounces of water a day. If all you want is personal consumption, you could do worse than this.
Everful Basin promises an endless supply of water, and requires only Craft Wondrous Item and Create Water. Of course it stops working if it's even turned upside down and emptied, but that's what covers are for. This item immensely facilitates logistics and weight issues.
Similarly, once you get third-level Cleric spells you can give them infinite food fairly easily (Everlasting Rations, Travel Cloak, etc)
If you want motive force, then good ship design + "solar" sails are now the optimal way to move through space. Everfull Sails from Stormwrack are very easy to craft (my Sha'ir 3 could make them right now!) and creates enough motive force to drive the ship forward "at its full normal speed". Simply design a spaceship so that its "normal speed" is spaceworthy, and you have now created a cheap way to travel through space that doesn't rely on Teleportation or high-level spellcasters! Of course you'll want a real space agency to actually design the ship. This isn't the kind of space exploration one PC can do from his backyard (you'll want to wait a few more levels for that).
Obviously there's the Necklace of Adaptation (craftable at level 7) that I'm sure every astronaut would love to have. Theoretically, you could even use it to fly in something that isn't very spaceworthy (that doesn't bother with air supply, for example). This again potentially massively decreases logistical constraints on safety, range, etc.
I'm not listing Decanter of Endless Water, because at the level where you can craft this you can already Plane Shift or whatever.

Jack_Simth

2022-01-25, 07:04 AM

Crichton

2022-01-25, 10:44 AM

Peelee

2022-01-25, 11:56 AM

If you want motive force, then good ship design + "solar" sails are now the optimal way to move through space. Everfull Sails from Stormwrack are very easy to craft (my Sha'ir 3 could make them right now!) and creates enough motive force to drive the ship forward "at its full normal speed". Simply design a spaceship so that its "normal speed" is spaceworthy, and you have now created a cheap way to travel through space that doesn't rely on Teleportation or high-level spellcasters! Of course you'll want a real space agency to actually design the ship. This isn't the kind of space exploration one PC can do from his backyard (you'll want to wait a few more levels for that).

There's... a lot of questions here. With radiation pressure, to get 1 newton (roughly the weight of an apple), you would need a solar sail about 360 meters (about a fifth of a mile) on each side. Presumably the Everfull Sails still needed to be full size, so the solar sails would still need to be as well, which puts us right back to square one on the solar sail issue. Unless you're creating actual wind in space, which would be it's own whole set of things, and would still require a massive amount of sail material.

Also, there's the whole issue of how the acceleration would be handled, if we stick with a "max speed" for space travel.

H_H_F_F

2022-01-25, 12:57 PM

Question: if one of these years I decide to retrain one of my first level feats to apprentice (spellcaster) could I? That is, if one of the more veteran casters here would be willing to mentor me.

Wildstag

2022-01-25, 01:40 PM

El Dorado

2022-01-25, 01:58 PM

H_H_F_F

2022-01-25, 02:37 PM

It's kinda surprising to me how many altruistic casters and immortality seekers there are in this thread, or at least those that lean towards those two archetypes.

I kinda figured there'd be a lot more "I'm gonna mind my own business away from people" sorts. But then again, there are also only three second-level or higher druids among us. Even if one of them forgot they'd actually become a Druid 4 this level.

I want to do my own thing. I deserve a life too, and I've realized over the years that I shouldn't treat myself as some tool to improve the lives of others. That's why I chose a class that feels natural, and spend time doing what I love.

But I still think the life well-lived is a life of doing good, and I will always strive for that, IRL and here.

Also, to clarify, I don't seek immortality precisely. We all die, and eternity is an illusion. I'm simply looking for an indefenite life span - removing the hard, knowable cap of years I have on this planet. It seems like a thing worth doing - a natural continuation of the self love I've learned to express by keeping healthy, looking to both sides when crossing the road, etc. I'm still a finite creature, and a human life in linear time is still all I seek.

bekeleven

2022-01-25, 03:02 PM

Jack_Simth

2022-01-25, 04:35 PM

It's kinda surprising to me how many altruistic casters and immortality seekers there are in this thread, or at least those that lean towards those two archetypes.

I kinda figured there'd be a lot more "I'm gonna mind my own business away from people" sorts. But then again, there are also only three second-level or higher druids among us. Even if one of them forgot they'd actually become a Druid 4 this level.

Well... time will get everyone, everyone eventually, although we can put it off a bit.

But humans are social creatures. They aren't stable without other humans, and one of the things humans need to be happy is to feel appreciated - with the best route for that being "do nice things for others"

So in a roundabout way, altruism helps the person who is helping others.

Some people know this, and help others at least partially for that reason.
Others do not, but do nice things for other reasons.
Others don't do nice things.

So yes. I will share my good fortune. Cheap, clean power? Sure. Clean out hospitals? Sounds fun. Ooh, space exploration! I will need to make at least some money along the way for supplies to do this, too.

So yes, I would do nice things. A part of that is training, a part of that is my own nature, a part of that is selfish. What alignment am I?

ben-zayb

2022-01-25, 05:34 PM

It's kinda surprising to me how many altruistic casters and immortality seekers there are in this thread, or at least those that lean towards those two archetypes.

I kinda figured there'd be a lot more "I'm gonna mind my own business away from people" sorts. But then again, there are also only three second-level or higher druids among us. Even if one of them forgot they'd actually become a Druid 4 this level.I honestly consider my Clairvoyant Sense services as less driven by altruism and more of a sampler for possible trading of benefits/goods in the future, similar to what Crichton suggested. Something like a "freemium" service as an investment for the inevitable psionic/magic-based economy.

As for minding my own business, I go about it by ensuring my non-mundane activities don't attract much attention IRL. For my preferred "playthrough" of real life, I still assume that there would be various powerful agencies that can and will take notice of any suspicious and possibly supernatural activities, and choosing psionics lets me easily conduct business without arousing so much suspicion. Even crafting power stones is simply an extension of my house decoration crafting hobby. Moreover, being a Telepath lets me easily turn some of these 3rd party agencies that would otherwise pose a threat into unwitting source of information and manpower instead.

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-25, 06:14 PM

You'll need either stasis or a teleporting stronghold space if you want folks to get from one planet to another without dying of old age. In terms of stellar distances, the fastest speed on a stronghold space is essentially no speed at all. 10 mph isn't much when Mars is 34.8 million miles at the closest (397 years and change to make that path, and that's the shortest it's gotten)
Stronghold spaces can Teleport and/or Plane Shift. You can also create Stronghold Spaces that let you instantly teleport pretty much anywhere, and/or that let you instantly appear in another linked but arbitrarily distant stronghold space. This costs a lot of money and would take ages to build, but it's not impossible or anything once you have enough levels under your belt.

Yeah, the fastest speed in the mobile stronghold section is 10MPH, but I assumed they meant a stronghold space with a stargate portal (from the next section in the book) leading to another stronghold on Mars.
I was thinking about Plane Shifting an obdurium cube, actually. It's less precise, but faster. But now that I double-check, you can just pay 50k per stronghold space to give it Teleport Without Error, and there's that wondrous component that's basically a portal/transport ring.

There's... a lot of questions here. With radiation pressure, to get 1 newton (roughly the weight of an apple), you would need a solar sail about 360 meters (about a fifth of a mile) on each side. Presumably the Everfull Sails still needed to be full size, so the solar sails would still need to be as well, which puts us right back to square one on the solar sail issue. Unless you're creating actual wind in space, which would be it's own whole set of things, and would still require a massive amount of sail material.

Also, there's the whole issue of how the acceleration would be handled, if we stick with a "max speed" for space travel.
Everfull Sails explicitly create a gust of wind from nothing. It creates enough wind to push you at your vehicle's max speed (whatever that is), and it's always active while the sail is unfurled and in use. Then it's just a matter of designing a spaceship that can be pulled by a sail without breaking or becoming uncontrollable, and that has a sufficiently massive max speed. The spell will just generate some crazily strong gusts of wind to push the ship that fast, and must definitely be custom-designed for the job.
That's a problem for advanced material science + magic. IDK how to solve that, but that's the whole point of working for NASA instead of trying to reinvent this in my basement! Regarding magical improvements to material science: Augment Object is third level, affects very big objects for day/level, and is a massive toughness improvement that scales with the native toughness of the item. Hardening is permanent, Shaper of Form improvements are permanent, etc.

Kalkra

2022-01-25, 07:57 PM

I'm not sure what people have against using teleportation for space travel, but I'll mention that you can get to very high speeds with ion thrusters and other forms of constant acceleration. The main issues are carrying fuel and getting it into orbit in the first place. Slap a decanter of endless water or two onto your spaceship and teleport it into space, and already existing technology will take you the rest of the way. I suppose you'll need some everlasting rations and maybe bottles of air, but fuel is the main issue.

Peelee

2022-01-25, 08:37 PM

Everfull Sails explicitly create a gust of wind from nothing. It creates enough wind to push you at your vehicle's max speed (whatever that is), and it's always active while the sail is unfurled and in use. Then it's just a matter of designing a spaceship that can be pulled by a sail without breaking or becoming uncontrollable, and that has a sufficiently massive max speed. The spell will just generate some crazily strong gusts of wind to push the ship that fast, and must definitely be custom-designed for the job.
That's a problem for advanced material science + magic. IDK how to solve that, but that's the whole point of working for NASA instead of trying to reinvent this in my basement! Regarding magical improvements to material science: Augment Object is third level, affects very big objects for day/level, and is a massive toughness improvement that scales with the native toughness of the item. Hardening is permanent, Shaper of Form improvements are permanent, etc.
Everfull Sails create a gust of wind, but there's already air all around. It's just moving that air into the sails. Achieve a NG this when there's no air would be questionable. Like, if you had a submersible with Everfull Saul's in the Elemental plane of water would it still work? If yes, would it be creating air in the plane (which, like on vacuum, would have its own set of issues) or would it be "wind" made of water? If the designers had ever thought of it (which would be wired, I'll grant you), I bet they would have written something like "this spell has no effect when there is no air to create wind from" or something.

And that's not even getting to "max speed" in space - once you have a stable orbit, you're already moving at a (relatively) stable velocity at all times, slowing down at the far end of the ellipse and speeding up at the near end. If you have any acceleration, then you're now moving at a faster velocity. If that acceleration doesn't change, you're going faster and faster and faster and faster and faster and faster and faster and faster and with chemical rockets you'd run out of fuel at this point but "everlasting sails" kind of says it all and faster and faster and faster and faster and the whole concept of "maximum speed" slowly loses meaning as you realize that the surface of the world, be it earth or water or even the atmospheric air itself created a drag effect that meant that infinitely increasing velocity was not possible but you are no longer constrained by the bounds of hitting against matter and while your shop was designed around countering the effects of radiation pressure you're still wondering if combining magic and science has gone too far. Perhaps even as far as you have gone since the beginning and end of that thought, which may be nigh incalculable.

You fully understand the painting The Scream.

It's kinda surprising to me how many altruistic casters and immortality seekers there are in this thread, or at least those that lean towards those two archetypes.
...... Yyyyyyeeeeessssss, altruistic. Definitely. Certainly I will not be healing the whole goddamn world while laughing maniacally and screaming "WHAT NOW, BITCHES? WHAT?!? NOW?!? at the insurance companies as they shutter their doors forever. Nope. Altruism. That is the motivation.

Hish

2022-01-25, 10:58 PM

Man, that time of the year again. Last year I was debating about going into Erudite, and this year I will. Some major changes to my life plans this year, might as well make another one.

I'm choosing Erudite because it's a full caster, with a large number of spells known, not divine, and with no gp costs and minor xp costs. Unique powers per day isn't a problem at all because I'm not adventuring, so there's no problem having to wait a day before I can alter reality in a new way.

I might update with a powers known list later.

TalonOfAnathrax

2022-01-26, 05:10 AM

Everfull Sails create a gust of wind, but there's already air all around. It's just moving that air into the sails. Achieve a NG this when there's no air would be questionable. Like, if you had a submersible with Everfull Saul's in the Elemental plane of water would it still work? If yes, would it be creating air in the plane (which, like on vacuum, would have its own set of issues) or would it be "wind" made of water? If the designers had ever thought of it (which would be wired, I'll grant you), I bet they would have written something like "this spell has no effect when there is no air to create wind from" or something.

And that's not even getting to "max speed" in space - once you have a stable orbit, you're already moving at a (relatively) stable velocity at all times, slowing down at the far end of the ellipse and speeding up at the near end. If you have any acceleration, then you're now moving at a faster velocity. If that acceleration doesn't change, you're going faster and faster and faster and faster and faster and faster and faster and faster and with chemical rockets you'd run out of fuel at this point but "everlasting sails" kind of says it all and faster and faster and faster and faster and the whole concept of "maximum speed" slowly loses meaning as you realize that the surface of the world, be it earth or water or even the atmospheric air itself created a drag effect that meant that infinitely increasing velocity was not possible but you are no longer constrained by the bounds of hitting against matter and while your shop was designed around countering the effects of radiation pressure you're still wondering if combining magic and science has gone too far. Perhaps even as far as you have gone since the beginning and end of that thought, which may be nigh incalculable.

You fully understand the painting The Scream.
You keep trying to apply physics to D&D magic. It creates a gust of wind, and the gust of wind spell says it "creates a severe blast of air" with no restriction on casting it in a void. It seems to me that the spell creates air from nothing, like Wall of Stone creates stone from nothing.
The spell explicitly creates a gust strong enough to move you at your maximum normal speed. It doesn't let you get any faster, so clearly the acceleration just stops once you reach a certain speed. The main difficulties I can think of right now are as follows:

You need a massive max speed, but you don't want the initial acceleration to be too abrupt. You'll probably want a ship with different configurations, each with its own max speed (I'm imagining brakes of some kind that reduce its on-paper max speed, which would also reduce the strength of the gust of wind as per magic item description). This is again a design + material science challenge, exactly the kind of thing a space agency can do.
You'll want to actually get into space somehow without creating an insanely powerful gust of wind within atmosphere. This isn't my field of study, but some armchair physics suggests collateral damage if you do that. You'll probably want to either Teleport into space, or only deploy the sail once you're already out of atmosphere. Even a Fly stronghold space effect could work (it's take hours to get into space due to speed concerns, but that's not a deal-breaker considering the timescale space travel works at). Seeing as the whole point of this is "I can start now without needing a big CL or XP total", it'd probably be easier to use conventional means to breach atmosphere and then use a special sail-designed ship to get to Mars or something. This is just a way to dramatically reduce fuel concerns, not a whole spaceship replacer.
You'll want ways to slow down and steer. I suggest having several sails you can furl/unfurl to produce different levels of thrust in different directions, but we'll see what the engineers prefer. Again, I presume that space agencies have scientists and designers who're better at this than I am right now (and I can give them skill bonuses if needed).

...... Yyyyyyeeeeessssss, altruistic. Definitely. Certainly I will not be healing the whole goddamn world while laughing maniacally and screaming "WHAT NOW, BITCHES? WHAT?!? NOW?!? at the insurance companies as they shutter their doors forever. Nope. Altruism. That is the motivation.
Hey, you aren't killing them despite having amazing cosmic power! That's clearly a sign of significant moral fiber right there!

Jack_Simth

2022-01-26, 08:03 AM

Regarding space travel:
A Decanter of Endless water, on Gyser, produces "considerable back pressure". That'll do for thrust once you're out of Earth's gravity well. And you can turn it on and off, or move it around to steer. If you need more force, just heat the water to steam in a boiler or something prior to letting it out of the ship.

Stronghold spaces can Teleport and/or Plane Shift. You can also create Stronghold Spaces that let you instantly teleport pretty much anywhere, and/or that let you instantly appear in another linked but arbitrarily distant stronghold space. This costs a lot of money and would take ages to build, but it's not impossible or anything once you have enough levels under your belt.Yes?

I said, right in the post you quoted, "You'll need either stasis or a teleporting stronghold space" (emphasis added).

Yeah, Greater Platform of Jaunting, Craft Portal, and so on can also do it.

...... Yyyyyyeeeeessssss, altruistic. Definitely. Certainly I will not be healing the whole goddamn world while laughing maniacally and screaming "WHAT NOW, BITCHES? WHAT?!? NOW?!? at the insurance companies as they shutter their doors forever. Nope. Altruism. That is the motivation.
Removing disease from existence wouldn't get rid of health insurance companies. It'd reduce them by a rather lot, but they have long-term contracts with a rather lot of businesses, there's a hefty number of laws requiring medical exams under various circumstances, and so on. Then of course, there's injuries.

Also... removing disease from the Earth might be harder than you think. A TO exercise involving infinite wishes or something might do it, but....

Well, suppose you're creating angels with Remove Disease as an at will. There's an estimated 7 billion people on Earth. How many of them do you need in order to tap everyone, once, with Remove Disease over the course of a year to make sure to get all the carriers before they reinfect anyone?

Then there's administrative details (travel time, finding everyone, et cetera), and that nasty little factoid that animals also carry diseases, and can spread them to humans sometimes.

bekeleven

2022-01-26, 08:19 AM

Hey, you aren't killing them despite having amazing cosmic power! That's clearly a sign of significant moral fiber right there!If I more or less understand the conceit of the thread, none of us have unmatched cosmic power because other people on GitP all have class levels too. So to go shields down or get too blatant, you have to trust your fellow playgrounders.

For what it's worth, I trust you guys to stop me if I start killing people. at least if you catch me doing it

H_H_F_F

2022-01-26, 08:23 AM

Wilderness Focus
Those who follow the path of the wilderness feel in their bones the call of the wild. They feel at home when alone in the wilderness – be it the backwoods, the mountain, the desert, or the frozen tundra. As they progress down this path, they draw power from the wilds, becoming as unyielding and as dangerous as those wilds themselves.

Survivor Creature [Wilderness]
Survivor Creatures feel the draw of the untamed land, and have began letting it seep into their beings. They can survive and thrive even with an extreme lack of resources. They also grow less attuned with civilized life, becoming uncomfortable when spending a long time within buildings or cities. Their hair becomes more vibrant, and their body hair thicker.
Prerequisites: Sculpt Self feat.
Benefits: The creature only needs half as much sleep as they previously did, and can function on as little as 2 hours of sleep per night for a week before starting to face any consequences. Additionally, all time-related effects of thirst and starvation take effect five times slower. So, for example, a Survivor creature would only start starving after 15 days, and would need to make a check once every 5 days, instead of every day.
Special: This prestige race alteration is unavailable to creatures with gear prestige race alterations.
Cost: 1,000 XP.

Tundra Creature [Wilderness]
Tundra creatures go deeper into the heart of the wild, leaving behind human society. Even those who were particularly verbose before their transformation become prone to long bouts of silence, and those who found speaking to be hard before find it nearly impossible. Their fingernails harden and become opaque. Their hair and facial hair grow quicker, becoming more wild and unruly.
Prerequisites: Sculpt Self feat, Survivor Creature.
Benefits: The creature can travel through snow at normal speed, leaving no tracks behind. It can also travel across even the most slippery (horizontal) ice at normal speed, with no risk of tripping. Additionally, the creature can comfortably exist in temperatures as cold as -50 Fahrenheit without needing to make fortitude saves.
Cost: 1,000 XP.

Desert Creature [Wilderness]
Desert creatures accept and cherish the exquisite pain one is submitted to in the deep wilderness, as they step dipper into its power. As their attunement to the wilderness becomes more comprehensive, so does their distance from civilized living. They start looking gaunt, their skin tightly holding to their muscle. Their movements become jittery and alarming when alerted, like those of a wolf or a hawk. The elation such creatures feel when running through the wilds becomes even more pronounced – as does their distaste for enclosed spaces, as they find it uncomfortable to spend even a short amount of time under a roof.
Prerequisites: Sculpt Self feat, Survivor Creature, Tundra Creature.
Benefits: The creature can travel across sand and sand crust at normal speed, without breaking through sand crust and leaving no tracks behind. Additionally, the creature can comfortably exist in temperatures as hot as 140 Fahrenheit without needing to make fortitude saves.
Cost: 1,500 XP.

Predator Creature [Wilderness]
At the peak of their journey, predator creatures are one with the wild. Even though their bodies are still human bodies, they acquire the ferocity and alertness of the wolf and the tiger. Their teeth sharpen (though not enough to gain a bite attack) and their eyes either become golden, or develop cat-like pupils. They become much more alert and in tune with their surroundings, and feel an irresistible need to almost constantly be on the move.
Prerequisites: Desert Creature, Sculpt Self feat, Survivor Creature, Tundra Creature.
Benefits: The creature gains the AC bonus and Unarmed Strike abilities of a 5th level monk. If the creature is a monk, they are instead treated as being 5 levels higher for those purposes.
Cost: 5,200 XP.

The items on which the focus is based are as follows: Ring of Sustenance (Survivor, ring slot alteration), Boots of the Winterlands (Tundra, feet slot alteration), Sandals of the Shifting Sands (Desert, feet slot alteration) and Monk's Belt (Predator, waist slot alteration).
Sandals are from sandstorm, the rest are from the DMG. Sandals also cost one and a half times as much as they should, because they rely on the feet slot, "in which" an alteration from this focus already exists.
Survivor creature, as described, gives a version of ring of sustenance which is strictly nerfed. If this still counts as a custom magic item, despite solely being a nerf to the benefits of an existing item, please consider the Survivor Creature text to simply say one does not require food or water, and only requires 2 hours of sleep a night.
Same goes for Monk's Belt, and the removal of the stunning fist benefit.

And... That's that! I'd like to research this focus, as well as invest xp into it during the coming months, should the research prove successful.