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View Full Version : Roleplaying Improvisational moment led to a tricky situation. Any ideas how to get out of it?



Corran
2022-01-01, 04:21 PM
I'm playing a drow arcane trickster. The campaign takes place in the surface. The basic idea behind the character was to hint at how dangerous a place the (campaign's) Underdark is. How? By taking an Underdark's failure and making him excel in the surface world. Not through raw force, but through cunning, and smarts, and charm, along with a tiny bit of skill.

First session, pc's are brought together for a quest. The amiacable goliath berserker immdiately tries to make friends, and of course the drow obliges, because give me a good reason why to turn down the friendship of someone who can cut you in half should he wishes to. But this conversation is quickly cut short by a halfelf's proclamation: "I am not working with a drow!". And I love that moment. Because it allows me to show how much of a smooth talker my character can be and to introduce him as such. And of course the halfelf reluctantly agress to join the quest, a party is formed out of necessity and the campaign begins.

A few sessions in, and after several "I have my eyes on you drow" from the halfelf, there comes a moment where my drow can actually make a small difference. Quest is to kill the head of a gang of thieves and to retrieve an object from him, with the side quest being to rescue some hostages (or was it the other way around?). And my character knows how to get the party in without raising the alarm (because of course the drow worked with this gang in the past, and of course he knows there is a secret entrance, and of course he knows the fool who is guarding it from the inside and the fool is fool enough to open the door for a drow he thinks he knows; I love permissive DMs). But here is the dilemma (at least in the halfelf's head). If the drow is lying then they are being led to a trap (and if he is not lying, then he is betraying people he pressumably worked with in the past, so another good reason not to trust him). Rest of the party is happy to dismiss the halfelf's worries, with the barbarian (the drow's best pal in the world!) even calling her paranoid. Now, to be clear, there is not rl trickery going on here. This is all just rolepaying. And I am loving it, because it feels like I get to have my cake and eat it too. Because the drow has gained all the trust he needs (to continue being a member of the party), while I am still getting enough distrust from the halfelf to allow me some different roleplaying opportunities every now and then.

More sessions in, and the halfelf's stance has softened. Enough to suggest that maybe, one day, there might be even friendship between the two. It seems that while she has not changed her mind about drows as a whole, she might be willing to entertain the thought that this one drow is different from the rest. Which of course is true, but not in the way she imagines. This ain't no Drizzt Do Urdern. While very far from the worst of his kind (the ones that surface dwellers probably imagine of when they think of drow), he is not someone who purposely chose to leave Underdark's madness behind because he couldn't stomach it. Rather, he was someone who was kind of spitted out, someone whose choices were to "risk" going to he surface or face some very unfavourable odds. A runaway. And while the drow can be very talkative, he tends to be less so whenever the halfelf enquires about his former life (more likely attempts at peeking at a non-existing backstory) or about life in the Underdark in general.
Halfelf: "Is Underdark trully a horrible place?"
Drow: "Yes."
Halfelf: "Why did you leave?"
Drow: *raises shoulders "...It's... a horrible place..."
Halfelf: "Would you ever go back there?"
Drow: "No."
Why go back to the jungle and try to steal the lion's spider's meal, when you can safely stay in kindergarden class and take candies from babies? The sun and the rain are small prices to pay for this golden opportunity.

Truth is, it was difficult for me to find the words that would be convincing enough to showcase how horrible a place the campaign's Underdark must be. This is dnd afterall, and not call of Cthulu. But I wanted scary. And vagueness is often far scarier than the best of examples, because imagination fills in the gaps in the most perfect way. So when pressed, I went with vaguness. And with the harsh tone that an impatient and grumpy parent might respond to an overly curious and persisting child who keeps asking questions about situations and concepts of which it has actually very little understanding but is convinced it knows much about. "You think you know greed and ambition but you dont have a clue. You think you know evil, but you dont know the half of it. Dont ask me about that place."

A few sessions back, we are in the middle of a dungeoncrawl. Party is taking a short rest, with the halfelf providing some healing to whomever needs it. The drow is usually shooting a bow from a safe distance, so it's not often that he is wounded. But the few times I need healing from the halfelf, this will happen after someone insists that she provides me with it, or she will very reluctantly do it herself while mumbling something under her breath. Bottom line, we've roleplayed this exact scene a few times already, and every time I would just basically say the same thing, rephrasing it so it wont sound repetitive and thus make it sound more convincing, at least enough for the halfelf to heal me. ''Oh come on now, dont make me beg for some healing". Halfelf stays unmoved, waiting to hear the rest, as is the custom. But I am a bit tired that day, and I mostly want to be done with this and carry on with some hack and slash. I know I must say something, but nothing comes to mind. At least nothing that would sound good and a little original. So I follow my previous phrase with a spontaneous reaction. In the most sly and sinister voice I can manage, and without thinking it a bit, the drow completes his previous sentence by saying: "You know you can trust me".

Barbaran player is about to say something, but I quickly add out of character, that to his character the drow didn't sound any differently than usual. Halfelf player keeps in character, having hers demand from mine to repeat what he had just said. Drow repeats it, but this time in his usual polite demeanor. Halfelf player breaks character and asks the DM to step in (DM is at the time dicsussing with two other players some idea of theirs). Halfelf player informs the DM of what just happened, and asks him to confirm it. The DM has no idea what I am playing at. Heck, I have no idea what I playing at either. But he knows a funny situation when he sees one, so with a serious look, he nods a few times and confirms it. The halfelf thinks that my character is playing a bad joke on her, and seeing how no one else reacted she quickly convinces herself that everyone is in on it, but out of character she is extremelly curious to find what is going on (which is very bad since no one knows at that point).

I leave some sessions to go by, and last session, at a random moment, a similar situation occurs. Halfelf goes full inquisitive mode (curiosity got the better of her a bit there, but it's understandable, and it made for a funny scene). She starts casting one spell after another (someone did their homework). Detect evil, dispel evil (somehow), remove curse. Apparently she thinks my character is possessed, but nothing seems to indicate so. Zone of truth follows. It becomes apparent to her that no one has any idea what she is talking about. Asks the DM: ''Is my character going crazy?". DM initially says no, only to change his answer to: "You tell me".




After the session we 3 had a converstion about this. Three things became clear:

1) The halfelf player does not want to create an answer to this situation. Instead, she really wants for that answer to exist and for her to find out what it is. She basically told us much when the DM suggested that she could replace the (non-existant; shhhh....) plot with something she would come up with as to why this is happening. So, someone has to come up with something, but that someone cannot be her.

2) Whatever is going on cannot have anything to do with my character. DM's first idea was that someone is using some kind of magic to create problems for my character. So rival from the past, a new enemy, whatever. I said no. Mind you, I understand it's not cool with throwing the ball at the DM and have him figure out a solution alone to a situation I created, but what he proposed, I am not feeling it for this character. Too unimportant to have created any long lasting grudes while in the Underdark, and smart enough not to piss off powerful enough people during his time in the surface. I am all for proposing ideas (and I did), but rivals and such are out because they mess too much with character concept.

3) The DM is having a hard time coming up with something that would make sense, since he does not have much to work with here.


TL;DR
Halfelf PC has trust issues with drow PC, but the uneasy coexistence starts becoming easier as time goes by. One day, halfelf hears drow's voice changed, wicked. But no one notices and even the drow does not know what she is on about. Out of character, no one knows what is going on, as this was an impovisational guff that the DM was happy to allow for the fun of the moment, kind of let it be and we'll figure it out later. Halfelf wants to find out why, but the DM is out of ideas at the moment. So throw me some ideas.

Facts: Drow is not possessed or anything of that kind. It wasn't a prank. It wasn't about seeing through some lie or performance either. And ideally, it shouldn't just be that the halfelf is suddenly going crazy (at least all on her own).

Restrictions: The drow pc should not be an important part to why this is happening. If someone is causing it, then it has to do with the halfelf, or whatever else. It shouldn't have anything to do with the campaign's McGuffin either (DM does not want us to mess with that).

Potential hooks: Nothing really, but if it's any help to you, here are a few things about the halfelf and about the campaign. Halfelf is a cleric of twilight, of some homebrew halfelven god. Think Pelor but exclusivelly for halfeves. Halfelves are very few in numbers and most of them are the nobles of human kingdoms (lines of succession and such after the -elven- empire broke into several pieces due to events of the past, several centuries back; demon invasion and later on civil war; or something along these lines). Campaign so far was some relatively unrelated quests (one quest led to another and to another), that somehow had us accidentally uncover information about the supposed location of a very powerful artifact of the past (which according to one history book -anyone else sensing the twist?, this was the key to winning the war against demons all these centuries back), so we now have this info on our hands and haven't yet decided what to do with it. Although I am thinking that one way or another, a sort of treasure hunt will be on the cards.

Khrysaes
2022-01-01, 04:36 PM
Snip

TL;DR
Halfelf PC has trust issues with drow PC, but the uneasy coexistence starts becoming easier as time goes by. One day, halfelf hears drow's voice changed, wicked. But no one notices and even the drow does not know what she is on about. Out of character, no one knows what is going on, as this was an impovisational guff that the DM was happy to allow for the fun of the moment, kind of let it be and we'll figure it out later. Halfelf wants to find out why, but the DM is out of ideas at the moment. So throw me some ideas.

Facts: Drow is not possessed or anything of that kind. It wasn't a prank. It wasn't about seeing through some lie or performance either. And ideally, it shouldn't just be that the halfelf is suddenly going crazy (at least all on her own).

Restrictions: The drow pc should not be an important part to why this is happening. If someone is causing it, then it has to do with the halfelf, or whatever else. It shouldn't have anything to do with the campaign's McGuffin either (DM does not want us to mess with that).

Potential hooks: Nothing really, but if it's any help to you, here are a few things about the halfelf and about the campaign. Halfelf is a cleric of twilight, of some homebrew halfelven god. Think Pelor but exclusivelly for halfeves. Halfelves are very few in numbers and most of them are the nobles of human kingdoms (lines of succession and such after the -elven- empire broke into several pieces due to events of the past, several centuries back; demon invasion and later on civil war; or something along these lines). Campaign so far was some relatively unrelated quests (one quest led to another and to another), that somehow had us accidentally uncover information about the supposed location of a very powerful artifact of the past (which according to one history book -anyone else sensing the twist?, this was the key to winning the war against demons all these centuries back), so we now have this info on our hands and haven't yet decided what to do with it. Although I am thinking that one way or another, a sort of treasure hunt will be on the cards.

To make sure I understand this.

Something caused the Drow's voice to change, but only the half elf noticed it? The request is for a cause to this voice change that is not the drow, and not just the half elf going crazy?

If this is the case. The easiest solution I would have is that something else is performing an illusion on the half elf causing it to hear things wrong.

This could be a madness effect, like in the DMG. An illusion spell, or something else.

The something that is causing the effect could be trying to sow discord in the group for whatever reason.

Yakk
2022-01-01, 04:52 PM
It is "just" a bit of divine guidance.

They are seeing your true nature, instead of your surface smoothness, as a minor boon from their god.

This could even extend to their PC getting a truth-detection ability, where all deceptions sound like a simister voice.

OldTrees1
2022-01-01, 04:53 PM
The something that is causing the effect could be trying to sow discord in the group for whatever reason.

Building off of this:
Plan A) Sow discord in the group and take advantage of the division.
Plan B) Eventually they will realize it is fake and trust will be restored. However the voice is still changed. This leads them to be more trusting of other "wicked" voices in future. Take advantage of the trust.

loki_ragnarock
2022-01-01, 05:12 PM
They have an ear infection.

Segev
2022-01-01, 05:20 PM
You've said your drow isn't a good person. So here's a question: is your drow lying when he says that the half-elf can trust him? In both senses: is the drow actively aware that trusting him is a bad idea ( either immediately or in the long run)? Is the drow thinking he's being honest, but wrong because he is not as trustworthy as he thinks he is? (People lie to themselves all the time, after all.)

Unoriginal
2022-01-01, 06:15 PM
Here what I would do:

Dow was confronted yet again by a racist who refused to heal them unless they performed... something that fit their views. It wasn't the first time this supposed healer demanded this whole song and dance.

So, annoyed but always cunning, the Drow gave the healer exactly what the healer thought she wanted: an ominous sentence said with a sinister, devilish oice, fitting her idea of what the Drow are.

And now she can't handle it, and will hopefully stop acting like that once she realises how her bigotry was used against her.

It's like how a good way to deal with someone who think you're stupid is to act too stupid to do what they demand until they give up their demands or their condescention. Except here it's with prejudices and bigotry.

A competent manipulator like your PC would know this trick, and it was appropriate to use it in the circumstences.

Corran
2022-01-01, 07:56 PM
To make sure I understand this.

Something caused the Drow's voice to change, but only the half elf noticed it? The request is for a cause to this voice change that is not the drow, and not just the half elf going crazy?

If this is the case. The easiest solution I would have is that something else is performing an illusion on the half elf causing it to hear things wrong.

This could be a madness effect, like in the DMG. An illusion spell, or something else.

The something that is causing the effect could be trying to sow discord in the group for whatever reason.


Building off of this:
Plan A) Sow discord in the group and take advantage of the division.
Plan B) Eventually they will realize it is fake and trust will be restored. However the voice is still changed. This leads them to be more trusting of other "wicked" voices in future. Take advantage of the trust.
Valid. But who might be doing that and why? That's what we have trouble coming up with. The campaign's past does not offer any such hooks, and the campaign's McGuffin-related future is something the DM wants to start revealing at his own pace and in his own way (I guess he is still working on it, which is probably why he is not handling well this distraction right now). So it has to be something unrelated, and basics of the idea are missing (the who and the why).




It is "just" a bit of divine guidance.

They are seeing your true nature, instead of your surface smoothness, as a minor boon from their god.

This could even extend to their PC getting a truth-detection ability, where all deceptions sound like a simister voice.
We actually thought of that, but we rejected it. Though I am now secondguessing why we did that, as it was clearly for out of game reasons. DM knows that my character wont hurt the party, so I guess it seemed like a false warning to him from that point of view. And I was hesitant to have to probably go back to the kind of roleplaying I had with the halfelf about 5 months ago. Because however enjoyable it was at that time, going back to it feels like an unwelcome repetition of things. But maybe we were wrong. The warning can actually be a very sound one, as I wouldn't put the drow anywhere above the evil alignment, not would I call him harmless or trustworthy from an in-game-world perspective. And perhaps this is not a repetition of the some old roleplaying that for the most part was over and done, but perhaps it will be something different. At the very least, if I know that the halfelf got a boon instead of having her go crazy because of something I did, I'll feel a lot less guilty if I have my character have a bit of fun by trying to convince her that she is indeed going mad. In fact, I probably earned that! Hehehe




They have an ear infection.
:smallsmile:


You've said your drow isn't a good person. So here's a question: is your drow lying when he says that the half-elf can trust him? In both senses: is the drow actively aware that trusting him is a bad idea ( either immediately or in the long run)? Is the drow thinking he's being honest, but wrong because he is not as trustworthy as he thinks he is? (People lie to themselves all the time, after all.)
Well, if he ever had a heart to heart conversation about that, being totally honest, he would probably say something along the lines "Be smart enough to know when to trust me and when not to". Same thing he does with everyone. Because he is very careful about his image (to the party, but particularly about his public image), the closest he might ever willingly come to the truth would be by saying something non sensical but catchy like "I am a gamble, but a gamble that pays off!" (and I am totally making a note of that to use it).

In the case of the halfelf, asking for trust is a means to an end. But it's definitely not a lie (at least if we are not talking about unconditional trust). It's just what the character has to say to get what he wants. In the short term he wants some healing, because they are in a dungeon and he is hurt. And by helping him the halfelf also helps herself. It's the smart thing to do, and it has very little to do with any meaningful trust, other than in its most basic level. In the long-ish term asking for trust translates to get off my back. An honest conversation would go somewhat like this. ''We have a good thing going. We are all using each other to complete some stupid quests to win gold and some fame. And it's working. Why are you trying to mess this up. Do you know how hard it is to find such a thing and have it be successful?". So trust me would translate to think and see that I have no reason to mess with something that is working surprisingly so well and once you realize that trust the reasoning of your thought. If the situation changes, then its everyone responsibility to re evaluate their options.

Corran
2022-01-01, 08:29 PM
Here what I would do:

Dow was confronted yet again by a racist who refused to heal them unless they performed... something that fit their views. It wasn't the first time this supposed healer demanded this whole song and dance.

So, annoyed but always cunning, the Drow gave the healer exactly what the healer thought she wanted: an ominous sentence said with a sinister, devilish oice, fitting her idea of what the Drow are.

And now she can't handle it, and will hopefully stop acting like that once she realises how her bigotry was used against her.

It's like how a good way to deal with someone who think you're stupid is to act too stupid to do what they demand until they give up their demands or their condescention. Except here it's with prejudices and bigotry.

A competent manipulator like your PC would know this trick, and it was appropriate to use it in the circumstences.
Ah, that would be a nice lesson but I dont think she deserves it. First session she began breaking character at some point to check if I was ok with her rp. And I was like no, dont break character, it's perfect! Because I wanted to play the dnd cliche. I mean, when the barbarian politely introduced himself to my character, I was so dissapointed, because I wanted someone to acknowledge that I am playing an ''evil" race and give me some grief, so I can go about trying to convince someone/anyone that I am innocent as a baby (we are talking about a character who had the nerve to make the claim that he is incapable of lying several times; he is trying to turn it into a rumor btw, and who knows, some day it might even pay off against all odds). The barbarian is a cliche as well. Naive and well mannered until combat starts. The he kills everything and afterwards he remembers nothing. The halfelf is a cliche, as she is in all but name a princess of the realm. The wizard is a horrible cliche. Incredibly smart but totally oblivious to the ways of the world. Only our dwarf fighter is not a cliche, as he is neither a drunk nor greedy, but one day we'll fix him! It's a cast of characters that I know most people would find boring to play, maybe even to play with. But somehow it works! Maybe because when most of us are not going for cliche characters we try concepts that quickly turn up silly, so there have been times when we were not really playing dnd, but instead it felt like competing at cheap comedy.

We could recton the zone of truth (if not the whole thing), but the problem is that I've accidentally set up something for the halfelf player to be intrigued about (DM ok'ed it but under the pressumption that I knew where I was going with it), and I dont want it to end with a disappointing ''there was nothing to it after all". I want to lead to something, or I want to seem like it was leading to something but we didn't find out what. Otherwise I may even hold back next time something as silly as that comes to mind, and where's the fun in that?

Khrysaes
2022-01-01, 08:34 PM
Well, the who and why requires context. Namely, who, has your party pissed off, intentionally or not. Maybe directly, so they are out for vengence, or indirectly such that you messed up their plans. Why otherwise may be difficult. Unless they are just doing it for the giggles, because they like doing that sort of thing. Maybe a fey in that case. Or a demon.

Sigreid
2022-01-01, 11:22 PM
Parsnips: https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=Awr9Fq1fKNFh40cAbSpXNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNnc TEEcG9zAzEEdnRpZANDMTYwOV8xBHNlYwNwaXZz?p=candice+ is+allergic+to+parsnips&fr2=piv-web&type=E211US1487G0&fr=mcafee#id=1&vid=dee24e0ec2ce5890d93e3f21e51730d0&action=view

Segev
2022-01-02, 04:58 AM
Well, if he ever had a heart to heart conversation about that, being totally honest, he would probably say something along the lines "Be smart enough to know when to trust me and when not to". Same thing he does with everyone. Because he is very careful about his image (to the party, but particularly about his public image), the closest he might ever willingly come to the truth would be by saying something non sensical but catchy like "I am a gamble, but a gamble that pays off!" (and I am totally making a note of that to use it).

In the case of the halfelf, asking for trust is a means to an end. But it's definitely not a lie (at least if we are not talking about unconditional trust). It's just what the character has to say to get what he wants. In the short term he wants some healing, because they are in a dungeon and he is hurt. And by helping him the halfelf also helps herself. It's the smart thing to do, and it has very little to do with any meaningful trust, other than in its most basic level. In the long-ish term asking for trust translates to get off my back. An honest conversation would go somewhat like this. ''We have a good thing going. We are all using each other to complete some stupid quests to win gold and some fame. And it's working. Why are you trying to mess this up. Do you know how hard it is to find such a thing and have it be successful?". So trust me would translate to think and see that I have no reason to mess with something that is working surprisingly so well and once you realize that trust the reasoning of your thought. If the situation changes, then its everyone responsibility to re evaluate their options.

I think the crux here is that he was being sincere in this instance, and it was important (to the half-elf) that the half-elf know that.

The half-elf worships a half-elf-only sun god who is like Pelor, from what you've said. Half-elves likely do not trust easily despite needing to depend on humans and elves, given their often semi-outcast (or at least, "exotic not-quite-outsider, not-quite-member") status in most cultures they grow up in. And yet a sun god likely values truth.

Perhaps the god is aiding the half-elf: on any day when the drow has been under the sun (drop this requirement if it breaks things, or alter it to suit), the sun god has divined, passively, the drow's intentions towards his cleric and things in general.

Whenever it is truly important (such as when the half-elf is basing a decision to keep an ally alive who will help the half-elf stay alive), the god may step in, and for the half-elf's ears only, speak over the drow's voice with a truthful answer as the drow might say it in his own mind. In this case, the drow's words were a truth, and so the god's dub-over were the same words, just in the god's voice. If ever the drow is being insincere in an important moment, the god's dub-over of the drow will let the half-elf hear, in the god's voice, the drow say what the drow really means. (Again, it did so this time, too, but the drow happened to really mean what he was saying.)

Aside from giving the half-elf confidence in the drow's sincerity (because his god will warn him of the drow's duplicity should he ever fib when it would be actively important - such as a life and death situation), this could, once the drow and the half-elf realize what is going on, permit a sort of one-way thieves' cant. IF the drow ever has to play up a wicked betrayal of the party or the half-elf in order to pull off a plan, everyone else will hear the bloviating "they're so gullible! Can you believe they thought I was their friend!?" speech while the half-elf hears the drow, in his sun god's voice, saying what he really thinks (which may only be that he's trusting the party to trust him while he prepares a double-cross to help them, or may include details of his plan or a request for the half-elf to play along and do something specific).

This neatly explains why it happened with none of the PCs knowing what happened, and can further extend the depth of the two elf-blooded PCs' relationship, while also complicating it because it does imply a certain lack of trust that might sour things if not dealt with well.

Unoriginal
2022-01-02, 07:51 AM
Ah, that would be a nice lesson but I dont think she deserves it. First session she began breaking character at some point to check if I was ok with her rp. And I was like no, dont break character, it's perfect! Because I wanted to play the dnd cliche. I mean, when the barbarian politely introduced himself to my character, I was so dissapointed, because I wanted someone to acknowledge that I am playing an ''evil" race and give me some grief, so I can go about trying to convince someone/anyone that I am innocent as a baby (we are talking about a character who had the nerve to make the claim that he is incapable of lying several times; he is trying to turn it into a rumor btw, and who knows, some day it might even pay off against all odds). The barbarian is a cliche as well. Naive and well mannered until combat starts. The he kills everything and afterwards he remembers nothing. The halfelf is a cliche, as she is in all but name a princess of the realm. The wizard is a horrible cliche. Incredibly smart but totally oblivious to the ways of the world. Only our dwarf fighter is not a cliche, as he is neither a drunk nor greedy, but one day we'll fix him! It's a cast of characters that I know most people would find boring to play, maybe even to play with. But somehow it works! Maybe because when most of us are not going for cliche characters we try concepts that quickly turn up silly, so there have been times when we were not really playing dnd, but instead it felt like competing at cheap comedy.

We could recton the zone of truth (if not the whole thing), but the problem is that I've accidentally set up something for the halfelf player to be intrigued about (DM ok'ed it but under the pressumption that I knew where I was going with it), and I dont want it to end with a disappointing ''there was nothing to it after all". I want to lead to something, or I want to seem like it was leading to something but we didn't find out what. Otherwise I may even hold back next time something as silly as that comes to mind, and where's the fun in that?

In that case, you could go for something like "Drow has some Demon ancestry, and it sometime manifests itself".

Many Drow have Demons in their family trees.

Could be fun if you worked with your DM to see if you could meet some of your PCs' Abyssal relatives.

Kurt Kurageous
2022-01-03, 09:24 PM
You get more of what you reward, and less of what you ignore/punish. Run your game accordingly.

At my table:
RP is only for funsies.
Die rolls are for keeps.
I give advantage/inspirations, but we roll anyway. For those who aren't into the funny voice thing, I give advantage if their action is thoughtfully presented and is not already covered by RAW.

I don't have a bunch of players aping certain voice actor gameplay...but we get more game played. YMMV.

Demonslayer666
2022-01-04, 01:35 PM
Perhaps the drow experienced the drawing of the veil, and only the half-elf noticed the change by being part elf.