Building 7th-Level Arcanist

[Maat Mons]

I've been invited to join a game that is, if memory serves, currently at 7th level. It's actually a game I had considered joining before (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?627059-Sorcerer-for-Justice!), but hadn't due to time constraints. But this semester is going to be much lighter.

I'm pretty sold on Arcanist, and I'm pretty sold on the Blood Arcanist archetype with the Imperious bloodline. I don't actually like the benefits of the Imperious bloodline, except for the 20th-level one that will probably never come up, but I'm going to take it anyway.

Here's what I've come up with, but other than Imperious Blood Arcanist, nothing is set in stone.


LevelArcanistBlood Arcanist (Imperious)Feats
1stArcane reservoir, arcanist exploit, cantrips, consume spellsBloodline arcana, bloodline power (student of humanity)Eschew Materials, Still Spell
2nd
3rdArcanist exploitBloodline power (heroic echo)Silent Spell
4th
5thArcanist exploit (quick study)Improved Initiative
6th
7thArcanist exploit (potent magic)Combat Casting
8th
9thArcanist exploitBloodline power (take your best shot)Spell Penetration
10th
11thArcanist exploit (metamagic knowledge), greater exploitsDefensive Combat Training, Quicken SpellB
12th
13thArcanist exploit (dimension slide)???
14th
15thArcanist exploitBloodline power (heroic legends)???
16th
17thArcanist exploit (counterspell)???
18th
19thArcanist exploit (greater metamagic knowledge)Expanded Preparation
20thMagical supremacyBloodline power (immortal legend)


I put Eschew Materials, Silent Spell, and Still Spell in because I like the idea of being able to cast surreptitiously. I could maybe be persuaded to drop those, but it would take something pretty compelling.

For other feats, my only ideas are Extend Spell, Greater Spell Penetration, Persistent Spell, or some sort of item creation feat.

The DM did say he'd allow Troll-Blooded when I asked, but I'm no longer sure I'd want to go that rout. Being fatigued much of the time seems inconvenient, and if the other players caught on that I take penalties in daylight, they'd think I was secretly undead. One time I played an undead, and another player constantly had his character snooping on mine, until he had the in-character knowledge to bring a group of undead-slayers to kill me. And that was when he was playing a petty thief. This time around, that guy's playing a Paladin. I'm not sure the fact that I'm really not undead would save me. Also, taking one point of fire or acid damage suppresses my regeneration of a round under Pathfinder rules, so if someone poked me with a torch while I was at sufficiently-negative hit points, I'd be instantly killed. It's better than not having regeneration, but I'm not sure I'd want to give up 2 of my 5 feats for it.

I don't know what to do for skills. Fly, Spellcraft, various Knowledges, and Perception sound good. My character's supposed to be a nobleman, so Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive would be fitting. My bloodline gives Intimidate-related benefits, but even so, I'm not sure I'd ever use the skill. Then again, what's the point of being a noble if peasants aren't afraid of you?

I don't believe the DM allows Traits.

I have no idea on my spellbook. Advice on how to fill that out is welcome. But bear in mind, I also need some gold leaf for gear, and the DM said he'll let me start the game having already retrained my hit points to maximum in exchange for the gold cost of the retraining.

The characters in the party I'll be joining are all consummate do-gooders, except for that time the Paladin sold his soul to Asmodeus. They're trying to build up a settlement in a dangerous and previously uninhabited location. The Paladin who works for Asmodeus envisions it as his future kingdom. I'm considering an origin story where I've been driven out of my lands, and am guiding a group of refugees. But if anyone else has any ideas for why I'd come to this place and keep hanging out here, I'm all ears.

[Kurald Galain]

Well, if you don't like your bloodline abilities (and indeed, they're not great), note that you can take a familiar in the place of one, or a bloodline mutation. Those are all pretty good. Obviously you should search your spell list for anything giving a morale or competence bonus.

Counterspell and Dimensional Slide are both very versatile; I recommend taking these much earlier, possibly spending a feat to get them. Armored Mask is a good defensive exploit, and you'll probably want the Improved Counterspell feat at some point.

Still Spell and Silent Spell are pretty bad, because they both add +1 level to your spells. A still&silent magic missile requires a 3rd-level spell slot, meaning you can't even use these feats at the level where you're getting them. Empower Spell and Spell Specialization are good choices, and Toppling Spell is a solid metamagic.

You don't need combat casting on a full caster, especially not after level 7. And your CMD is likely going to suck even with defensive combat training, so I wouldn't recommend spending a feat on that. If you want defensive feats, consider Divine Defiance or Steadfast Personality; or simply Toughness.

HTH!

[Maat Mons]

Well, I spent a lot of time goofing off, but now I'm back at making this character.

I've rolled stats. The DM gives everyone a free 18, and then we roll 3d6 5 times, rerolling any 1's. I rolled 12, 12, 10, 10, 8. I was optimistic, because I calculated an 80% chance I'd get a 14 or better to go along with my free 18. But no, the dice were not kind.

I've always been fonder of 4d6-drop-lowest. That would have given me a 90% chance of getting a 14. But I guess it is what it is. The obvious choice seems to be Str 8, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 12. Would have really liked more Con, but the DM said he'd allow me to start having already spent money of HP retraining.

And speaking of money, I've got 23,000 gp. How should I spend it? I assume I can start having already spent gp to fill out my spell book. But I'm not quite sure what the limits are. What spells should I consider? What items?

[Jervis]

I put Eschew Materials, Silent Spell, and Still Spell in because I like the idea of being able to cast surreptitiously. I could maybe be persuaded to drop those, but it would take something pretty compelling.

For other feats, my only ideas are Extend Spell, Greater Spell Penetration, Persistent Spell, or some sort of item creation feat.

The DM did say he'd allow Troll-Blooded when I asked, but I'm no longer sure I'd want to go that rout. Being fatigued much of the time seems inconvenient, and if the other players caught on that I take penalties in daylight, they'd think I was secretly undead. One time I played an undead, and another player constantly had his character snooping on mine, until he had the in-character knowledge to bring a group of undead-slayers to kill me. And that was when he was playing a petty thief. This time around, that guy's playing a Paladin. I'm not sure the fact that I'm really not undead would save me. Also, taking one point of fire or acid damage suppresses my regeneration of a round under Pathfinder rules, so if someone poked me with a torch while I was at sufficiently-negative hit points, I'd be instantly killed. It's better than not having regeneration, but I'm not sure I'd want to give up 2 of my 5 feats for it.



This 3.5 trollblooded or does pathfinder have its own? If it’s the prior then I recommend using a dark lantern (complete arcane) or any other source of magical darkness. You basically have a magic umbrella.

Other than that I also recommend Invisible Spell if it’s allowed. Still + Silent + invisible is undetectable my most means. You also cast wall of iron and pretend to be a mime

[arkangel111]

I agree With Kurald. he gave good advice. Additionally, I would grab dimensional slide earlier, as you will get the most mileage out of it in your earlier career. later you will have many spells that do similar and it will be less of a thing for you to rely on. Also, keep in mind it is always only 5ft of your total movement so you'll get quite a bit of bonus movement out of it. Those stats are abysmal, not unplayable but but it does drastically reduce your options for Exploits, it also drastically negatively impacts your bloodline powers.
Honestly with just the snapshot I'm unsure what you are aiming to focus on. Yes you're a caster but generally you still focus on something. If you want to counterspell I'd talk to the DM about letting feats buff your exploit ability, and also try to fit in the greater exploits for it. If you want to summon then grab some feats to buff summons, honestly if you can reroll stats your bloodline might not be half bad if you focus on buffing your companions but with that CHA its not worth the focus.

I know you said you want imperious bloodline but hear me out. The only ability you really like is the capstone and your charisma makes any of the other abilities worthless. Likely, it's the immortality that really draws your eye so if you drop the bloodline entirely you can grab the exploit Arcane Discovery then grab immortality. this would require that your DM either let you retrain an exploit at 20, or let you delay your choice at 19. both ideas moot if you never make it to those levels. This then opens up the Psychic Bloodline, giving you still spell and silent spell for all of your spells. Additionally for added Immortality you gain thoughtform allowing you to never die in theory. Other than your first level ability none of the new abilities rely on CHA which you suck at anyway. This also frees up 2-3 feats (eschew materials may be needed still I am unsure how the psychic rules interact with material components). You could grab extra exploit to pick up dimensional slide earlier, as well as a familiar. With the psychic based spells you could then spend feats on Armor or shields and increase your defense.

Other than that grab some caster feats based on your preferred playstyle and staples like toughness, improved will/fort/ref, and Improved familiar.

[Maat Mons]

Thanks to everyone who's replied so far. Here's an infodump. Additional thanks to anyone who reads through it.

It turns out my character will be joining a new 7th-level Pathfinder game starting next Wednesday instead of the ongoing 7th-level Pathfinder game I thought I was joining. I guess one of the players from the other game has some sort of scheduling conflict for the next 6 months?

Yesterday, we met up virtually to get through much of the process of building out characters, but I'm not quite done yet. One bit of new info I have now is that the other party members will be a Half-Elf Unchained Rogue, an Awakened Cat Arcane Bloodline Sorcerer, and some sort of Cartomancer Witch. Yes, we're going to be 3 arcane casters and a Rogue.

My rolls for HP were 6, 4, 2, 4, 4, 4, and of course, max HP for 1st level. Last time I asked the DM about HP retraining, he said I could start with the retraining already done. I assume that still stands, but it's been a while, so I'll double check with him before the first session.

Right now, the only feats I have written down on my character sheet are Eschew Materials and Improved Initiative. I need to pick two more.

The DM believes the existence of Common as a language is unrealistic. And he also believes realism is worth annoying everyone by making us have to care about languages. So I'll start play with some language called "Elthian" and 5 others. The DM suggested Elven, Giant, Sylvan, Goblin, and Draconic as languages that might come up. But Goblin doesn't feel right for this character. Any suggestions.

For skills, what I've written down so far is max ranks in Bluff, Diplomacy, Fly, Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, and Use Magic Device, plus 1 rank each in every Knowledge skill except Local. I have 5 ranks left to spend. For the record, Bluff, Perception, and Sense Motive are not class skills, but all of the rest are. Yes, even Diplomacy, it's an Imperial Bloodline thing. Also, I've calculate skill points with my favored class benefits going to extra skill points, but I guess I could switch that over to HP, if some of my skills aren't very valuable.

I still have no idea what I want for spells, but in the next couple of days, I'll try to get a tentative list of candidates together. In addition to the free spells I get, I can buy any number more, but in addition to the cost of writing them into my spellbook, I have to pay to have a source to copy from. The DM says he'll let me use the rate for accessing another's spellbook for up to 10 spells, but any spells I start with beyond that must have the cost figured as if I'd bought a scroll to copy from instead.

I also have no ideas on gear. Still 23,000 gp.

And, just to bury this lead as much as possible, I'll now tell you that the DM has completely reworked how prepared casting works in his games. He didn't see fit to tell me this until yesterday, even though he knew I was going to play a caster. How it works in his games is that you get the normal number of spell slots, but instead of preparing spells in them, you do like in 5e, and gain class level + ability modifier spells "prepared," which you can then "spontaneously" cast from your spell slots, sort of like a bunch of spells known that you can change every day.

You might notice that, as an Arcanist, I've basically paid for this exact benefit already by having my spell progression delayed by a level. Fear not however. I complained about this very thing, and he's giving me the Wizard's spell progression in place of the Arcanist's spell progression. Though this does mean that the only mechanical difference between me and a Wizard in this campaign is that I get Exploits instead of bonus feats, Arcane School, and Arcane Bond.

I've decided to stick with Arcanist. The difference is pretty slight at this point, but I guess the Quick Study exploit is still a pretty cool thing that Wizards don't get. Also, I'm not sure if the Immortality discovery actually gives immortality. And if it does, I'm not sure it gives eternal youth.

[Kurald Galain]

The DM suggested Elven, Giant, Sylvan, Goblin, and Draconic as languages that might come up. But Goblin doesn't feel right for this character. Any suggestions. Whatever the local equivalent is of either Undercommon, or Ancient Thassilonian.


You might notice that, as an Arcanist, I've basically paid for this exact benefit already by having my spell progression delayed by a level. Fear not however. I complained about this very thing, and he's giving me the Wizard's spell progression in place of the Arcanist's spell progression. Though this does mean that the only mechanical difference between me and a Wizard in this campaign is that I get Exploits instead of bonus feats, Arcane School, and Arcane Bond.
So effectively, you're the Exploiter archetype of a Wizard. That's one of the strongest archetypes, so I'd say you're all set.

[Maat Mons]

The DM said he would boost one of my stats by +2, since I rolled far and away the worst of anyone in the group. Oddly, I didn’t have the impression he was going to let me pick which stat gets the boost. However, even if he’s picking for me, I’d be surprised if it didn’t wind up being either Constitution or Charisma getting the boost.

I’m thinking of focusing on summoning. With a party full of squishies, some disposable meatshields seem like a good idea. I can take Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Augment Summoning, but then I’m not sure what to do with my one remaining feat. The remaining summoning feats I can find are Evolved Summon Monster, Summon Neutral Monster, Superior Summoning, and Versatile Summon Monster. With Evolved Summon Monster, it looks like I’d mostly either be giving my summons an extra attack, a slight bump to damage with an existing attack, or +2 natural armor. On the plus side, I could make that choice each time I summon. I’m not sure how the extra options from Summon Neutral Monster stack up. Anyone know a good guide that ranks all of the monsters for Summon Monster, including the ones that can be added with feats? For Superior Summoning, if I picked a monster from one level lower, giving me 1d3 of them, and I rolled a 1, would I get any benefit from the feat? I wouldn’t be summoning “more than one” monster, after all. For Versatile Summon Monster, I’m tempted by the Aerial template, for giving a fly speed. Is Primordial any good? It seems to have the least overlap with Aerial, or any of the others, for that matter.

Some random spells I’m considering:
1st: Grease, Mage Armor, Mount, Protection from evil, Obscuring mists, Unseen servant, Comprehend languages, Charm person, Enlarge person, Endure elements, Vanish, Feather fall, Ear piercing scream, Color spray
2nd: Resist energy, Create pit, Glitterdust, Stone call, Web, Invisibility, Mirror image, Levitate, summon monster ii, Communal protection from evil, Communal mount, Hideous laughter, Oppressive boredom, Flaming sphere, Command undead, Darkvision, Rope trick
3rd: Ablative sphere, Aqueous orb, Mad monkeys, Phantom steed, Sleet storm, Summon monster iii, Fly, Haste, Slow, Dispel magic, Magic circle against evil, Communal resist energy, Stinking clod, Spiked pit, Suggestion, Tiny hut, Wind wall, Ray of exhaustion, Shrink item

[Maat Mons]

Sorry for the double-post, but the DM wants to talk tonight about finalizing my character.

On the wealth front, I was figuring on spending 1,740 gp on HP retraining. Then a Ring of Sustenance, Handy Haversack, and Traveler’s Anytool look nice. A Blessed Book is more than half my wealth, but I plan to get one eventually, and delaying seems like it will just result in wasting money on the spells I learn before I upgrade. A Bookplate of Recall and Bookmark of Deception seems nice.

I’m considering Muleback Chords and a Heavy Load Belt. It would let me carry up to 690 pounds, which should be plenty for getting loot out of the dungeon and into the wagon. Shrink item uses my highest level spell slot, and Bag of Holding has some limitations on volume.

How much should I worry about buying items that give numeric bonuses? I want to have those bonuses, but I suspect we’ll find some in our journeys. So I don’t know if making sure I have them in my starting gear is a big deal?

For party gear, a Wand of Cure Light Wounds seems important. Should I try to get the other players to split the cost of an Expedition Pavilion and a Safecamp Wagon?

[Kurald Galain]

You're a caster, so buying a bunch of scrolls and metamagic rods should be high on your list. Carrying heavy stuff is not your job.

[Epic Legand]

For an item, I suggest Boots of the earth, $5,000 gives you fast healing 2, as long as you stand on unworked dirt.

Ring of substances, means sleep, and spell recovery is only 2 hours a night, plus no need for food or drink

Rod of extend...$3000. Its roughly equal to the feat, and a feat for 3k is cheep. ...You get like10 to pick from, while a short while from now, 3k will be nothing.

For the best feat possible for your build...Overly emotional. +1 to existing moral bonus. Since you spent 3 feats to gain this archtype, I assume you will cast heroism frequently ( extended) Thats +2 to saves/attacks and skills. With archtype, thats +3, with the feat+4 (Or +5 if you drink) Thats+5 to most of your important fighting stats (except armor class) for the next 140 minutes AND +5 to every skill so the dinner with the king? Knowledge check on that weird dragon? Combine all this with Tears to wine ( +2 enhancement to all WIS and INT skills for the same duration) and you are both drinking and clearheaded ( +7 to those respective skills). This is the core of my Tomb raiding bard :)

[Maat Mons]

Okay, tentatively, I've got as spells known:

0th: all of them
1st: comprehend languages, ear piecing scream, grease, mage armor, mount, obscuring mist, protection from evil, feather fall, unseen servant, vanish
2nd: create pit, glitterdust, hideous laughter, mirror image, resist energy, stone call, web
3rd: fly, heroism, invisibility sphere, mad monkeys, shrink item, slow, spiked pit, summon monster iii
4th: confusion, dimension door, greater invisibility, summon monster iv, wall of ice

I could get more, but I'd need to shell out for scrolls to copy from.

For items, I'm currently thinking the Blessed Book might still be too expensive to be practical. But on the other hand, it's shiny.