3.P - Awakened Sand Shapesand as a Monster PC

[unseenmage]

I've always wanted to play as an Awakened Sand Construct made by the spell using Shapesand on place of regular sand. Assuming no turning shapesand into artifacts just because it doesnt say you can't of course.

I usually used the sand shaper PRC rules for shapesand as the rules for shapesand the alchemical item aren't as detailed.
Our group's resident rules guru pointed out that this isn't RAW necessarily. The alchemical item reads as if it just takes a single action to shape.

So now I'm wondering which method of sand shaping is more appropriate for an Awakened Sand Shapesand creature based on its CR?

AND which is more appropriate for an Awakened Sand Shapesand if it were a PC whose CR = starting ECL?

[icefractal]

What stats are you using for this? Awaken Sand (the spell) makes a Huge Animated Object (but with standard mental ability scores), so without the Shapesand powers that'd be:

Huge Construct (earth)
Str +10, Dex -2, Con --
+6 natural armor, speed 40', burrow 20', engulf, amorphous

And 8 HD. What ECL are you aiming for? If you drop the HD, it's definitely more than LA +0, but if you keep them then it's pretty weak for ECL 8 and could have more abilities added.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Being shapesand is really great. That's like being a mimic‚ but without most of the restrictions. You could become a rope for people to cross a gap‚ go through almost any hole.... Plus‚ and that's the best part‚ you're an animated object. Those explicitly have different stats based on their shape. You can get Improved Grab at will‚ fly or increase your speed or damage output...

Honestly 8RHD doesn't seem that bad at all‚ especially if the awakening is maximized. Maybe still a bit weak‚ but probably not completely unuseable.

Then‚ there is of course the question of if other people can affect your shape‚ which would be a bit of a problem in a fight ("You are now a ball‚ yes a ball")

[Balthanon]

AND which is more appropriate for an Awakened Sand Shapesand if it were a PC whose CR = starting ECL?

ECL 5 with 8 HD introduces some problematic issues, so if you're starting at a lower CR, you might want to go with a monster class instead and at least ECL 8, depending on how you're seeing the abilities that the shapesand gives you. Or as mentioned above, you could potentially drop some or all of the racial hit dice and/or even reduce the size so it's more reasonable in a party. I'm sure we could probably help out with that if you'd like.

When you ask which is more appropriate, I assume you're talking mainly about the type of check you would need to make to change forms (i.e. Will save vs caster level/level check) plus the speed with which it happens. Or will you just automatically shape your own sand? Or are you thinking of adding in the forms that the Sand Shaper can create with Improved Shape Sand too when you consider basing it on that?

The other question you probably need to answer is-- how will you handle your "excess" sand-- if you shape yourself into an object, are you shaping only a portion of yourself to create a hammer that you're holding, for instance, or are you turning your entire body into that and all the extra sand just disappears temporarily?

Basically, give us a description of what you'd like the character to be able to do and we can likely help with finetuning the ECL and race (as well as what your DM is okay with), since this is a bit homebrew given the shapesand element.

[unseenmage]

Well, this build was mostly theoretical.
Was curious how wild the RAW could get while also curious how many blindspots folks' homebrew adjudication could be.

But if (when?!) it is allowed in our game it would be all 3.P allowed plus 3rd party with permission. Spheres, epic, mythic, and gestalt all optional as desired but usually avoided.
TO allowed sometimes, but generally high optimization games.
We prefer RAW over RAI, but do what needs doing to make games make sense so no drown healing or shaoesand making artifacts or commoner rail guns etc.
Though using weird TO RAW as inspiration for a game or story arc has happened.

If I were to run this character I would probably give it shaoesand powers as per the sandpaper prc. It'd be a character of ECL = it's CR. we would probably start as characters of that CR plus a few levels so we have some superpowers available.

It's also possible we would break out PF's race under and work up the cost of a race that has analogous abilities.

At the extreme end I'd wind up playing it in a GURPS or M&M one shot. Which for me would be way less satisfying.

[Dragonsworn]

I am not super familiar with the consepts of Awakened Sand and Shapesand (I only know of Sandshaper as a frequently suggested method for Sorcerers to increase their amount of known spells), but I came here to write this comment because from what I have been reading this would be a very effective way in building and playing Crocodile from One Piece (https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Crocodile)

To those more knowlegeable than me, does this seem plausible? Would it be good/effective, would it do justice to the character/portray him accurately? And if so, do you think we could build the rest of the Fruit Users from that show [at least the Logia ones, Zoans are basically lycanthropes with max Cotrol Shape and Paramecia is too broad to do in a common way (though case by case could be done for some....)]

[Balthanon]

I am not super familiar with the consepts of Awakened Sand and Shapesand (I only know of Sandshaper as a frequently suggested method for Sorcerers to increase their amount of known spells), but I came here to write this comment because from what I have been reading this would be a very effective way in building and playing Crocodile from One Piece (https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Crocodile)

To those more knowlegeable than me, does this seem plausible? Would it be good/effective, would it do justice to the character/portray him accurately? And if so, do you think we could build the rest of the Fruit Users from that show [at least the Logia ones, Zoans are basically lycanthropes with max Cotrol Shape and Paramecia is too broad to do in a common way (though case by case could be done for some....)]

You could probably make a poor man's Logia with this, but it would likely be missing a few notable abilities-- like substantial DR penetrated only by an opposing element (or Haki).

If you actually want to play One Piece characters legitimately, you might want to try the One Piece d20 game; it's not perfect, but I played in a campaign that was run in it and it was a lot of fun nonetheless. Even then though, you basically will be developing any Devil Fruits from scratch as homebrew more or less. I was giving thought to actually revamping it with more of a Tome of Battle feel and something a little more structured in terms of how to handle Devil Fruits when I was last playing D&D, but I never got around to it.

If you're just putting that forward as a challenge, I'm sure that most of the fruits could likely be mimicked at least. I don't know that I would go with reflavoring this approach to pull it off though-- there's a fair bit of homebrew to it (since there are no stats for a "Shapesand" construct) and there are likely other approaches within the rules that might give more of the abilities as well.