Ghost Walk and the Ground

[Xenothelm]

Very excited to access this ability at 13! But before I go to my DM, I wanted to do some research.

Ghost walk says:

As a bonus action, you assume a spectral form. While in this form, you have a flying speed of 10 feet, you can hover, and attack rolls have disadvantage against you. You can also move through creatures and objects as if they were difficult terrain, but you take 1d10 force damage if you end your turn inside a creature or an object.

I’m trying to define object as it relates to the ground. Like, the earth.

Can GW be used to travel underground? I imagine when dealing with a burrowing enemy, they’re quite protected from AoE as they’re provided full cover, and you obviously can’t be seen for targeting purposes; GW doesn’t seem much different. Essentially you could phase under your opponent, Hide, attack with advantage, and rinse and repeat the entire combat at the cost of 1d10 hp per round. That’s less than most cantrips at 13 so I’m curious how other tables are handling any Phantom mole-people digging around.

[elyktsorb]

attack with advantage

If you're in the ground wouldn't you be unable to attack with advantage? As you'd be unable to see your enemy, even if you hid or used Steady Aim your advantage would be blocked by your disadvantage.

Of course your enemy would be unable to attack you, but they already have disadvantage to attack you while in spectral form. I can see it being a strategy, but not one you'd need to employ often.

Even at 14th lvl your blindsense likely won't rectify this either since if your inside a wall, you likely can't hear what is going on outside of it.

There's also the issue of you being able to dive into the ground in the first place. The ability states that you can hover, but that means you can't fly, and if you can't move upwards of your own volition, how do you move downwards? (Or is the statement that you can hover just a statement and is completely separate from the 10ft fly speed? Not a limitation, which would make most of the below statement moot)

But it states that you can hover, so you can still walk? But you'd step through anything.

If for whatever reason you stopped hovering you'd fall, and once you started hovering again, you've have no means of going upwards, and unlike the spell 'Etherealness' there is no statement of that ability that says if you end the effect while inside a creature or object, you get shunted out of it into a nearby empty space, so far all intents and purposes if you went into something, or went underground and ended the effect, the DM could just say you've stuck yourself or killed yourself.

Though to that effect, why bother with being underground, you could just perfectly stay inside of another person. You could just stand inside of an ally, or the enemy, how are they to try and attack you through themselves? Plus no worrying about pesky rulings of the ground, not to mention if your standing inside the enemy, you can definitely see them. Sure, they could move and then attack you, but that would mean moving, and if you set it right, that'll mean punishment for them.

[Xenothelm]

If you're in the ground wouldn't you be unable to attack with advantage? As you'd be unable to see your enemy, even if you hid or used Steady Aim your advantage would be blocked by your disadvantage.

I think JC addressed this in a Dragon Talk Podcast re: stealth.

Essentially, if your target is in range of attack from your hiding spot, as in you didn’t have to leave your 5ft sq, you can benefit from adv on the atk roll, while of course revealing your location and no longer hiding. A rarer case for melee, but GW seems to allow it.


Even at 14th lvl your blindsense likely won't rectify this either since if your inside a wall, you likely can't hear what is going on outside of it.

This is a good point, most creatures with a burrow speed will likely have Tremorsense, so what one can perceive while underground without it is immediately called into question. Blindsight certainly doesn’t let you see through walls, of which the ground is a rather thicc one.


There's also the issue of you being able to dive into the ground in the first place. The ability states that you can hover, but that means you can't fly, and if you can't move upwards of your own volition, how do you move downwards

You do get a 10ft fly speed. With the mobile feat that’s a bonus action 40ft Free Willy dash to the surface.

[Xenothelm]

Though to that effect, why bother with being underground, you could just perfectly stay inside of another person. You could just stand inside of an ally, or the enemy, how are they to try and attack you through themselves? Plus no worrying about pesky rulings of the ground, not to mention if your standing inside the enemy, you can definitely see them. Sure, they could move and then attack you, but that would mean moving, and if you set it right, that'll mean punishment for them.

This setup works somewhat more neatly; would they really have to leave their square to make the attack though? Aside from the 1d10/round, GW is allowing the phantom to share space, and if weapon reach works similar to cast range, they could attack me WITHIN 5ft of them, yikes.

[elyktsorb]

I think JC addressed this in a Dragon Talk Podcast re: stealth.

Essentially, if your target is in range of attack from your hiding spot, as in you didn’t have to leave your 5ft sq, you can benefit from adv on the atk roll, while of course revealing your location and no longer hiding. A rarer case for melee, but GW seems to allow it.


This is a good point, most creatures with a burrow speed will likely have Tremorsense, so what one can perceive while underground without it is immediately called into question. Blindsight certainly doesn’t let you see through walls, of which the ground is a rather thicc one.


I would argue that they probably answered this question with the basis that the character in question is hiding somewhere that they can feasibly see their opponent from in some form.

Where as hiding underground, you wouldn't be able to see without coming out of the ground, or at least putting your head out.

Disregarding if you can or not, the main issue then becomes that your enemy might not be there when you reveal yourself. Since you have to hide under the ground, they might be able to move out of the way, and since Opportunity Attacks require you to see an enemy when they leave your reach, you can't rely on those either.

Sure, as long as they are within 5ft of your spot under the ground, all is well, but without any way to keep them in one spot, moving is free. Sure you could actively pick targets next to other players, but even then, unless it's more than 1 person, and they put themselves in appropriate positions, an enemy could still move out of your strike zone without putting themselves in any danger relatively easily, and it's also not like you're going invisible, if you do it mid combat, they will see you go underground.




This setup works somewhat more neatly; would they really have to leave their square to make the attack though? Aside from the 1d10/round, GW is allowing the phantom to share space, and if weapon reach works similar to cast range, they could attack me WITHIN 5ft of them, yikes.

Hm. Probably more reliable to stay inside of a tanky ally who can be mindful enough to make sure you are covered by their body when their turn ends then.