Tavern Brawler +1d4: does it break?

[Saelethil]

I’ve been considering making Tavern Brawler add 1d4 to unarmed attacks instead of dealing 1d4. For most characters this is only +1 damage but for Monks and those with the unarmed fighting style it would be 2.5/hit which is only slightly better than the dueling style.
I was thinking about how there aren’t really any very good feats for Monks and Tavern Brawler is a thematic fit.
I know that this pretty much let’s Monks and unarmed Fighters punch like mauls but is it too good? or just very good?

[Rukelnikov]

Its perfectly fine, go with it.

[Mastikator]

A 5th level monk using flurry of blows that lands all attacks will deal an extra 4d4, or ~10 extra damage. That is equivalent to a fighter that lands once with GWM.

[nickl_2000]

I personally don't think it is necessary. Monks get plenty of toys to play with and Unarmed Fighting style gets other fun stuff as well.

However, give it a shot and see if people take it and how it impacts things. I can tell you for a fact that if this was offered in a new campaign I was starting, I would play my Unarmed Fighting Grappler Rune Knight concept that is running through my head.

[loki_ragnarock]

Considering the raw number of attacks a monk or higher level fighter can throw... maybe?

But that monks didn't even get a decent magic item until way late in the product cycle and that it only came to exist *after* unarmed fighters became a thing makes me kinda shrug and say "do as you will."

Taking the average of 2.5 over something like 3 attacks for a low level monk, that's something like 7 damage a round minus whatever accuracy adjustment?
It'd be enough to kill an extra kobold a round, with the ki flowing towards more strikes.

Seems... like that's not terribly high impact. At absolute peak it might kill two extra kobolds a round.

That's... basically fine, I think. You'll be fine.

[Hawk7915]

Feats are expensive for a Monk. With a need/desire to cap both WIS and DEX and only 5 ASIs to do it between 1st and 19th, every feat is one that is tough to consider, especially if it doesn't have half a DEX or WIS ASI attached to it the way Skill Expert, Slasher, or Piercer would. This does give Monks a feat that is a strong contender, effectively the "Duelist" fighting style for Monks. I don't think it breaks anything, but also don't think Monks are as bad as everyone makes them out to be in the first place.

Slightly spookier is Unarmed Fighting Style Fighters smashing folks for 1d8+1d4+STR per punch, with up to 4 attacks per round at max level (5, actually, for some subclasses like Echo Knight or Samurai). Unarmed Fighters are also much more likely to be able to make that Bonus Action Grapple stick, triggering the extra damage from Unarmed Fighting Style more reliably. They already wanted this feat, and now it's basically mandatory. However, that's a feat spent for ultimately getting a Greatsword unarmed. That's neat, and powerful at low levels for a VHuman/Custom Lineage Fighter (especially since the half-ASI aligns better with their stats), but doesn't seem "broken" since it'd ultimately shake-out as worse than a GWM or SS Fighter's damage potential past level 5 or so. And given that Unarmed Fighters can't break damage reduction like Monks can, a bit of extra oomph goes a long way towards keeping them viable in Tier 2 and beyond.

I think it's very good, but not too good in a world of Polearm Master and Great Weapon Master. It makes the feat mandatory for unarmed Fighters (and Fighter/Barbarian multis), but it was already good on them so no issue. It's not even necessarily mandatory on Monks, especially Monks like Way of Mercy or Way of Astral Self that have a strong incentive to maximize their WIS first, or Kensei monks that often don't use their unarmed strikes as much.

[Dork_Forge]

I’ve been considering making Tavern Brawler add 1d4 to unarmed attacks instead of dealing 1d4. For most characters this is only +1 damage but for Monks and those with the unarmed fighting style it would be 2.5/hit which is only slightly better than the dueling style.
I was thinking about how there aren’t really any very good feats for Monks and Tavern Brawler is a thematic fit.
I know that this pretty much let’s Monks and unarmed Fighters punch like mauls but is it too good? or just very good?

Personally I think it's too much (and you should remember that unlike Dueling, this can crit) and unnecessary on a Monk.

However if you really want Tavern Brawler to be a Monk feat, you should address improvised weapons not being Monk weapons, otherwise, it's kinda lopsided mechanically and narratively.

[Rukelnikov]

Personally I think it's too much (and you should remember that unlike Dueling, this can crit) and unnecessary on a Monk.

However if you really want Tavern Brawler to be a Monk feat, you should address improvised weapons not being Monk weapons, otherwise, it's kinda lopsided mechanically and narratively.

Yeah, allowing Improvised Weapons to work with martial arts means 0 increase in damage and 1000% increase in flavor.

[Psyren]

A 5th level monk using flurry of blows that lands all attacks will deal an extra 4d4, or ~10 extra damage. That is equivalent to a fighter that lands once with GWM.

And the Fighter doesn't even need to burn ki every round :smallbiggrin:

(Plus they spent 1/7 their available feats on it instead of 1/5 - more if you factor in the mandatory ASIs to keep up due to MAD vs SAD.)