Segev
2022-01-06, 12:13 PM
It has come up at least a few times that 5e's rules for carrying capacity are kind-of laughable. A Storm Giant's carrying capacity is 29x15x4 = 1,740 lbs, with the ability to drag 3,480. When you consider that that means he could not even drag a parked Ford F-150 (minimum weight: 4,021 lbs.), that puts in perspective how low that amount is for a creature his size. A kraken, at 30 strength and Gargantuan size, could carry 3,600 lbs. and drag 7,200 lbs., meaning its massive tentacles could not lift that Ford F-150, and would have to drag it across the docks, lumbering at 5 ft. per round to do so.
The Pathfinder (and 3.5) carrying capacity rules (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alignment-description/carrying-capacity/#TOC-Table-Carrying-Capacity) used a table that was actually a little less forgiving at up to 20 strength (with a light load being 133 lbs., vs. a 5e character having a carrying capacity of 300 lbs. In contrast, 300 lbs. would be in the middle of the Heavy Load range for a 20 strength PF1 character, who maxed out at 400 lbs. maximum lift). The PF1 table begins to stretch out from there, however, eventually having a 29 strength character's light load (the amount he can carry unencumbered) hit 466 lbs. (and a maximum carry weight with a heavy load all the way up at 1,400 lbs.), vs. a 5e (medium) creature capping out at 450 lbs. absolute maximum carry capacity. 5e and 3.PF share the same multiplier for size, so a Huge 29 Strength giant in PF1 would have had a light load of 1,864 lbs. vs. the maximum carry capacity of a 50 29 Strength Storm Giant being 1,740. That might seem like a minor difference, but remember this is the LIGHT 3.PF load vs. the MAXIMUM 5e carry capacity.
Now, you might note that the 5e rules have you entirely unencumbered all the way up to that maximum carrying capacity, so having the unencumbered carry weight and the 5e maximum weight be the two compared is fair. Except that if you use the optional encumbrance rules, 5e tells you that the maximum weight is unchanged: that is your heavy load.
At lower Strengths, the formula of Strength x15 is actually pretty generous compared to the 3.PF table. A 3.PF strength 10 character had a maximum heavy load of 100 lbs., and a light load of a mere 33 lbs., whereas a 5e 10 Strength character has a maximum load of 150 lbs, and even with the optional encumbrance rules has an unencumbered carrying capacity of 50 lbs., which is still better than the 3.PF equivalent creature.
And making a table that is as fiddly as 3.PF used is antithetical to 5e's design.
Proposal 1: Optional Encumbrance Rules Increase Maximum Loads
The existing 5e optional encumbrance rules make you encumbered past x5 strength and heavily encumbered past x10 strength, leaving your maximum carry load at x15. It's a straight-up nerf to vanilla 5e carrying capacity.
I propose changing that around so that up to Strength x15 remains what it is - unencumbered carrying capacity - but let you be encumbered (dropping your speed by 10 feet, and potentially cancelling things like the stuff monks need to be unarmored to benefit from) up to Strength x30, and heavily encumbered (dropping speed by 20 and giving disadvantage on physical ability checks, attacks, and saves) at up to Strength x45.
This is not 100% identical to the Strength table at 30+ in 3.5, but it's actually very close.
As an examination, the Storm Giant is now still unencumbered up to 1,740 lbs., is encumbered up to 3,480 lbs., and can lift up to 5,220 lbs. This still means he's heavily encumbered lifting that Ford F-150, which is actually probably fair; it's a big chunk of metal about 1/3 his height and awkwardly sized and shaped.
The kraken is unencumbered up to 3,600 lbs., and is only encumbered lifting up to 7,200 lbs., which means it can pick up that Ford F-150 and barely slow down. It is heavily encumbered up to 14,400 lbs. This is actually still pretty unsatisfying, considering that ships are measured in tens of tons of weight at a general minimum, but there's only so much we can do (and, also, the Siege Monster trait means the kraken can rip one apart appropriately even if it can't pick one up and carry it around like a kid with a toy boat).
On the lower end, this does mean that a Strength 10 character can carry, heavily encumbered, up to 450 lbs., which might seem excessive for the average elf or halfling. But I personally think erring on the side of heroically staggering about is not unfitting for D&D.
Proposal 2: Athletics Adds to Strength, and Strength(Athletics) to Increase Carrying Capacity
This one's also pretty simple: if you are proficient in Athletics, you can add your proficiency bonus to your Strength score for carrying purposes. Expertise would let you add 2x your proficiency bonus. This isn't going to raise capacities spectacularly - in fact, I am not sure either the Storm Giant nor the Kraken are proficient, let alone double proficient, in Athletics. But it may satisfy at least on the PC scale for that desire to be that much stronger.
Proposal 3: Ability Check to determine carrying capacity for a time
But let's look at Ability Check DCs and consider how those may aid us in an approach to working with carrying capacities. As a reminder, the (underdefined) difficulties are "very easy" at 5, "easy" at 10, "medium" at 15, "hard" at 20, "very hard" at 25, and "almost impossible" at 30. It should be noted that a raw Ability Check with no proficiency added, and a 30 in a stat (29 being the highest strength a PC can reliably get without shapeshifting) has only a 5% chance of making a DC 30 check. This can be pushed higher with enough things stacked on, but it's tricky outside of very narrow check types, none of which are Strength-related. As an additional note, moving an Immovable Rod requires a DC 30 Strength check, and also an Immovable Rod can only support up to 8,000 lbs., which (again) is shockingly low when you start getting into the Huge and Gargantuan size categories.
I propose that carrying weight up to your (unencumbered) carrying capacity (Strength x15 lbs.) for an hour is a Very Easy task. I could try to ballpark what is "medium" and "very hard," but I think we can start here as a basis for making a first pass formula. If carrying your Strength Score x15 for an hour is a DC 5 task, then that would be a unit of [Strength x3] per DC point. That is, it's DC 1 to carry up to thrice your Strength Score, DC 2 to carry up to 6x your Strength, DC 3 up to 9x, DC 4 up to 12x, and DC 5 up to 15x. We can carry that out to say that you can carry up to your Strength x30 lbs. for an hour as a DC 10 check. That's up to double the usual limit as an "Easy" check. A "Medium" check would be 3x the usual limit, a "Hard" check 4x, a "Very Hard" check 5x, and a "Nearly Impossible" check 6x.
This would let the Storm Giant heft 348 lbs. times the value he rolled on the Strength check. 1,740 lbs. with a DC 5. Storm Giants do, it turns out, have +14 to Athletics, so they have a pretty solid chance of making even a DC 20, which would be 6,960 lbs.
Procedure
Generally, assume people can pick up reasonable things and carry them for up to a minute. If there's a question, roll Strength(Athletics) to see if they can heft it; the first check lets them do so for up to a minute. If they fail by 5 or less, they can try again "next round" (or immediately, if rounds aren't important). Otherwise, they need a minute's rest to try again.
After one minute carrying anything that seems burdensome (i.e. that a Very Easy check would be needed to successfully heft), they make another roll. Success means they can keep carrying it for up to an hour before needing to check again. Add the number of hours without at least 10 minutes' rest between them that the creature has been carrying this to the DC. Failure means they have to put it down and rest within the next minute. Failure by 5 or more means they drop it if they can't put it down safely immediately. They need at least 10 minutes' rest to try picking it up again, and the DC goes up by 5 each time they fail this check.
A short rest resets the DC and lets them try again, refreshed.
For streamlining's sake, you can assume that, barring "something interesting" happening, they can carry it for a number of hours between short rests equal to the amount by which they exceed the DC, minimum 1.
The Pathfinder (and 3.5) carrying capacity rules (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alignment-description/carrying-capacity/#TOC-Table-Carrying-Capacity) used a table that was actually a little less forgiving at up to 20 strength (with a light load being 133 lbs., vs. a 5e character having a carrying capacity of 300 lbs. In contrast, 300 lbs. would be in the middle of the Heavy Load range for a 20 strength PF1 character, who maxed out at 400 lbs. maximum lift). The PF1 table begins to stretch out from there, however, eventually having a 29 strength character's light load (the amount he can carry unencumbered) hit 466 lbs. (and a maximum carry weight with a heavy load all the way up at 1,400 lbs.), vs. a 5e (medium) creature capping out at 450 lbs. absolute maximum carry capacity. 5e and 3.PF share the same multiplier for size, so a Huge 29 Strength giant in PF1 would have had a light load of 1,864 lbs. vs. the maximum carry capacity of a 50 29 Strength Storm Giant being 1,740. That might seem like a minor difference, but remember this is the LIGHT 3.PF load vs. the MAXIMUM 5e carry capacity.
Now, you might note that the 5e rules have you entirely unencumbered all the way up to that maximum carrying capacity, so having the unencumbered carry weight and the 5e maximum weight be the two compared is fair. Except that if you use the optional encumbrance rules, 5e tells you that the maximum weight is unchanged: that is your heavy load.
At lower Strengths, the formula of Strength x15 is actually pretty generous compared to the 3.PF table. A 3.PF strength 10 character had a maximum heavy load of 100 lbs., and a light load of a mere 33 lbs., whereas a 5e 10 Strength character has a maximum load of 150 lbs, and even with the optional encumbrance rules has an unencumbered carrying capacity of 50 lbs., which is still better than the 3.PF equivalent creature.
And making a table that is as fiddly as 3.PF used is antithetical to 5e's design.
Proposal 1: Optional Encumbrance Rules Increase Maximum Loads
The existing 5e optional encumbrance rules make you encumbered past x5 strength and heavily encumbered past x10 strength, leaving your maximum carry load at x15. It's a straight-up nerf to vanilla 5e carrying capacity.
I propose changing that around so that up to Strength x15 remains what it is - unencumbered carrying capacity - but let you be encumbered (dropping your speed by 10 feet, and potentially cancelling things like the stuff monks need to be unarmored to benefit from) up to Strength x30, and heavily encumbered (dropping speed by 20 and giving disadvantage on physical ability checks, attacks, and saves) at up to Strength x45.
This is not 100% identical to the Strength table at 30+ in 3.5, but it's actually very close.
As an examination, the Storm Giant is now still unencumbered up to 1,740 lbs., is encumbered up to 3,480 lbs., and can lift up to 5,220 lbs. This still means he's heavily encumbered lifting that Ford F-150, which is actually probably fair; it's a big chunk of metal about 1/3 his height and awkwardly sized and shaped.
The kraken is unencumbered up to 3,600 lbs., and is only encumbered lifting up to 7,200 lbs., which means it can pick up that Ford F-150 and barely slow down. It is heavily encumbered up to 14,400 lbs. This is actually still pretty unsatisfying, considering that ships are measured in tens of tons of weight at a general minimum, but there's only so much we can do (and, also, the Siege Monster trait means the kraken can rip one apart appropriately even if it can't pick one up and carry it around like a kid with a toy boat).
On the lower end, this does mean that a Strength 10 character can carry, heavily encumbered, up to 450 lbs., which might seem excessive for the average elf or halfling. But I personally think erring on the side of heroically staggering about is not unfitting for D&D.
Proposal 2: Athletics Adds to Strength, and Strength(Athletics) to Increase Carrying Capacity
This one's also pretty simple: if you are proficient in Athletics, you can add your proficiency bonus to your Strength score for carrying purposes. Expertise would let you add 2x your proficiency bonus. This isn't going to raise capacities spectacularly - in fact, I am not sure either the Storm Giant nor the Kraken are proficient, let alone double proficient, in Athletics. But it may satisfy at least on the PC scale for that desire to be that much stronger.
Proposal 3: Ability Check to determine carrying capacity for a time
But let's look at Ability Check DCs and consider how those may aid us in an approach to working with carrying capacities. As a reminder, the (underdefined) difficulties are "very easy" at 5, "easy" at 10, "medium" at 15, "hard" at 20, "very hard" at 25, and "almost impossible" at 30. It should be noted that a raw Ability Check with no proficiency added, and a 30 in a stat (29 being the highest strength a PC can reliably get without shapeshifting) has only a 5% chance of making a DC 30 check. This can be pushed higher with enough things stacked on, but it's tricky outside of very narrow check types, none of which are Strength-related. As an additional note, moving an Immovable Rod requires a DC 30 Strength check, and also an Immovable Rod can only support up to 8,000 lbs., which (again) is shockingly low when you start getting into the Huge and Gargantuan size categories.
I propose that carrying weight up to your (unencumbered) carrying capacity (Strength x15 lbs.) for an hour is a Very Easy task. I could try to ballpark what is "medium" and "very hard," but I think we can start here as a basis for making a first pass formula. If carrying your Strength Score x15 for an hour is a DC 5 task, then that would be a unit of [Strength x3] per DC point. That is, it's DC 1 to carry up to thrice your Strength Score, DC 2 to carry up to 6x your Strength, DC 3 up to 9x, DC 4 up to 12x, and DC 5 up to 15x. We can carry that out to say that you can carry up to your Strength x30 lbs. for an hour as a DC 10 check. That's up to double the usual limit as an "Easy" check. A "Medium" check would be 3x the usual limit, a "Hard" check 4x, a "Very Hard" check 5x, and a "Nearly Impossible" check 6x.
This would let the Storm Giant heft 348 lbs. times the value he rolled on the Strength check. 1,740 lbs. with a DC 5. Storm Giants do, it turns out, have +14 to Athletics, so they have a pretty solid chance of making even a DC 20, which would be 6,960 lbs.
Procedure
Generally, assume people can pick up reasonable things and carry them for up to a minute. If there's a question, roll Strength(Athletics) to see if they can heft it; the first check lets them do so for up to a minute. If they fail by 5 or less, they can try again "next round" (or immediately, if rounds aren't important). Otherwise, they need a minute's rest to try again.
After one minute carrying anything that seems burdensome (i.e. that a Very Easy check would be needed to successfully heft), they make another roll. Success means they can keep carrying it for up to an hour before needing to check again. Add the number of hours without at least 10 minutes' rest between them that the creature has been carrying this to the DC. Failure means they have to put it down and rest within the next minute. Failure by 5 or more means they drop it if they can't put it down safely immediately. They need at least 10 minutes' rest to try picking it up again, and the DC goes up by 5 each time they fail this check.
A short rest resets the DC and lets them try again, refreshed.
For streamlining's sake, you can assume that, barring "something interesting" happening, they can carry it for a number of hours between short rests equal to the amount by which they exceed the DC, minimum 1.