Warlock Patron for Forbidden Knowledge

[nickl_2000]

If you were playing a combination Knowledge Cleric/Warlock who decides to pushes the quest for knowledge to far and ends up making a pact. What warlock pact patron would you choose and why?

[Psyren]

Just to be clear you're asking for patron right? The body of the post switched to pact.

Just about any patron will work for forbidden knowledge. The only ones I'd be less inclined towards would be Celestial (they might be too caring to expose you to "forbidden knowledge") and Hexblade (they typically want you hitting things more than reading) but even those two can be justified with the right concept. And for the cleric combo in particular, all of them tend to be with the kinds of entities who either are capable of granting cleric spells or work for deities that do, if you want that kind of tie-in.

For pact, the obvious choice for forbidden knowledge is Tomelock but again, any of them will work - Chain can be a familiar whispering in your ear, Talisman can implant stuff in your mind or dreams while you wear it, and even Blade can be muttering constantly or something, though like the Hexblade I think Blade would prefer you were taking a more direct approach.

[nickl_2000]

Just to be clear you're asking for patron right? The body of the post switched to pact.

Just about any patron will work for forbidden knowledge. The only ones I'd be less inclined towards would be Celestial (they might be too caring to expose you to "forbidden knowledge") and Hexblade (they typically want you hitting things more than reading) but even those two can be justified with the right concept. And for the cleric combo in particular, all of them tend to be with the kinds of entities who either are capable of granting cleric spells or work for deities that do, if you want that kind of tie-in.

For pact, the obvious choice for forbidden knowledge is Tomelock but again, any of them will work - Chain can be a familiar whispering in your ear, Talisman can implant stuff in your mind or dreams while you wear it, and even Blade can be muttering constantly or something, though like the Hexblade I think Blade would prefer you were taking a more direct approach.

Yes, I absolutely mean patron. I was thinking either Tome or Talisman for the pact, but patron was way more important.

[MrStabby]

I think for fluff, "forbidden knowledge" is determined by who forbade it.

In this sense you are really trying to find a patron that is the antithesis of the values of whoever rules your world. A tricky fey with mastery of illusion might be the antithesis of a surveillance state with spies of every corner. A society dedicated to good ideals might have a fiend be its antithesis. A thoroughly corrupt and evil society might have an interest in stifling any sense that there could be any source of redemption, so the knowledge of a celestial might be forbidden.

I think you work out who forbade it and why and you will have an answer.

[Burley]

The Great Old One is the patron most closely associated with forbidden and ancient lore. It's inspired by the Cthulhu mythos (and similar fiction) and they exists in a realm of non-reality made real.

My favorite part of The Great Old One's lore entry is: "The Great Old One might be unaware of your existence or entirely indifferent to you, but the secrets you have learned allow you to draw your magic from it." These are powerful beings so removed from what your mind can comprehend, you could think you're invoking your patron for spells, while you're really just siphoning what passes for the patron eye-boogers (in a realm of non-reality) as it sleeps.

If you can, look for the old D&D3.5 book Tome of Magic, which describes the Binder class. There's a bit of overlap in mechanics, but a TON of overlap in lore. It's a great springboard if you don't want to have a single patron, but a being for each Warlock ability, which ties into the GOOPatron lore I quoted above. In Tome of Magic, the various forgotten beings trade slivers of their power to mortals in exchange for the brief experience of existence when the mortal uses their power.
Maybe your eldritch blast is powered by the Starlight in the Void, Dartanion and dissonant whispers is powered by the Mother of Gibbering Horror, Pamplemos. (Both made up by me on the spot, btw. Look to Dr. Orpheus from Venture Bros. on how your warlock should start talking. :smallwink:)

As far as making a "pact," if I can reference Cthulhu stuff again: Eldritch horror characters find themselves with an insatiable need to investigate and, as the horror becomes more intense, so too does their drive to delve deeper. Perhaps your warlock hasn't made a specific "pact," but the more they scour tomes and play with things they don't understand, the stronger the innate pull to continue on what will inevitably be a ruinous path.

[P. G. Macer]

If your DM allows Unearthed Arcana, the old Seeker Patron from several years ago is a perfect fit, lore-wise. In terms of flavor, its whole schtick is the gathering of knowledge, with the Patron themselves wandering the Astral Plane in search of lore, and you wandering the Material plane in search of lore to share with your Patron.

[Psyren]

Fathomless is also Lovecraftian if that's your bag. And both Fiends and Genies are easily associated with forbidden knowledge.

Undying/Undead can make you beholden to a lich or ghost, who can have forbidden knowledge in spades.

Archfey can take on a dark-secret-hoarding theme, especially if you lean more towards Unseelie / Court of Night / World of Dreams angle.

[nickl_2000]

Fathomless is also Lovecraftian if that's your bag. And both Fiends and Genies are easily associated with forbidden knowledge.

Undying/Undead can make you beholden to a lich or ghost, who can have forbidden knowledge in spades.

Archfey can take on a dark-secret-hoarding theme, especially if you lean more towards Unseelie / Court of Night / World of Dreams angle.

That's a solid argument on how you can easily fit any of them in there.

[Psyren]

That's a solid argument on how you can easily fit any of them in there.

Almost any - as previously mentioned, I'm a bit more stuck on this when it comes to Celestial and Hexblade. But I'm sure someone more creative than I can come up with an appealing justification for those two. (Even so, I'd put them towards the bottom of your list unless I saw something truly inspired.)

[nickl_2000]

Almost any - as previously mentioned, I'm a bit more stuck on this when it comes to Celestial and Hexblade. But I'm sure someone more creative than I can come up with an appealing justification for those two. (Even so, I'd put them towards the bottom of your list unless I saw something truly inspired.)

That does trigger an interesting idea. This particular PC would be in the world of Eberron. So he is a Cleric to Aureon, Sovereign of Law and Lore, but has a Warlock Patron of The Shadow, Sovereign of Magic and Mayhem.

There is constant conflict between his diety and his patron. Now if only there was a Draconic Patron for the Warlock.

[Burley]

Almost any - as previously mentioned, I'm a bit more stuck on this when it comes to Celestial and Hexblade. But I'm sure someone more creative than I can come up with an appealing justification for those two. (Even so, I'd put them towards the bottom of your list unless I saw something truly inspired.)

I had a player a few years ago who played a Celestial warlock. Their tome was a copy of the Christian bible, pulled from an alternate dimension (ours).

For Hexblade, I imagine a more martial arts kind of casting, almost like Bending from Nickelodeon's Avatar. Through practice of specific forms and movements written in ancient scrolls, you can shape the flow of arcane energy. Or, maybe your sword is made of books. :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

Giving the first one a wide berth.



For Hexblade, I imagine a more martial arts kind of casting, almost like Bending from Nickelodeon's Avatar. Through practice of specific forms and movements written in ancient scrolls, you can shape the flow of arcane energy. Or, maybe your sword is made of books. :smalltongue:

While that's an interesting idea (would work better the Hexblade you could use unarmed strike... wait, can they?) I don't see what's particularly "forbidden" about that style.

[Burley]

Giving the first one a wide berth.



While that's an interesting idea (would work better the Hexblade you could use unarmed strike... wait, can they?) I don't see what's particularly "forbidden" about that style.

I gave it a wide berth, too. I was a Religious Studies minor in college, not because I'm religious, rather that I'm fascinated by the concept of Faith and how people build their lives around it. While I don't have any, I have the utmost respect for people who do have faith. This player, I think, didn't intend to be satirical, but the line was blurred quickly when they starting burning monsters with radiant fire while quoting scripture.

They're aaaaah-bviously forbidden techniques. Maybe it's the Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique. Or, from that most blasphemous of arcane tomes, the Kama Sutra. :smallamused:

[Seekergeek]

Almost any - as previously mentioned, I'm a bit more stuck on this when it comes to Celestial and Hexblade. But I'm sure someone more creative than I can come up with an appealing justification for those two. (Even so, I'd put them towards the bottom of your list unless I saw something truly inspired.)

I once played a hexblade with the Book of Vile Darkness as my patron, trying to get my character to unearth it from the place where it had been locked away. Tome pact and EB focused in combat. Was a lot of fun.

[Sorinth]

For hexblade the forbidden knowledge might be how to construct weapons of such power the gods forbade their creation. If you go the whole patron is a weapon, then possibly even have the patron be a world destroying weapon that was broken into pieces ages ago and is trying to get itself reforged.

For celestial, in a world where mortals can gain divinity and ascend to godhood I would imagine much of the process of how to ascend and who the gods were before they ascended would be considered forbidden knowledge. The celestial could for whatever reason not care that it's forbidden and share it anyways, or even just be easily tricked into revealing stuff because they are lonely and are just happy they finally have someone to talk too.

[Psyren]

For hexblade the forbidden knowledge might be how to construct weapons of such power the gods forbade their creation. If you go the whole patron is a weapon, then possibly even have the patron be a world destroying weapon that was broken into pieces ages ago and is trying to get itself reforged.

Ooh I like this one. See, I knew the Playground could do it :smallbiggrin:


For celestial, in a world where mortals can gain divinity and ascend to godhood I would imagine much of the process of how to ascend and who the gods were before they ascended would be considered forbidden knowledge. The celestial could for whatever reason not care that it's forbidden and share it anyways, or even just be easily tricked into revealing stuff because they are lonely and are just happy they finally have someone to talk too.

Where this one could be really cool is a world where the good gods (and possibly even the neutral ones) have lost, and the PCs are needed to ascend, taking their place and restoring balance. Some of the final celestials are barely holding on, and have empowered warlocks and sorcerers since good clerics are nonexistent.

...brb, getting a pen

[Unoriginal]

As noted, any Patron can provide forbidden knowledge.

However, I'll note that the Allip is someone who literally was turned into an undead because they learned forbidden knowledge. So maybe having one has a patron could be interesting?

[Evaar]

That does trigger an interesting idea. This particular PC would be in the world of Eberron. So he is a Cleric to Aureon, Sovereign of Law and Lore, but has a Warlock Patron of The Shadow, Sovereign of Magic and Mayhem.

There is constant conflict between his diety and his patron. Now if only there was a Draconic Patron for the Warlock.

Okay, since you're in Eberron we could get a little more specific.

I might argue the Shadow itself isn't the best thing to mark as your patron since the Shadow may or may not exist and you know your patron definitely exists, right? I guess you don't have to play it that way, but the ambiguity of the existence of gods is part of the core setting in Eberron.

But there are lots of forbidden knowledge creatures who do definitely exist in Eberron.

So if you're making a pact with a Quori, then Great Old One is probably your best bet.

If you're going with Mordain the Fleshweaver, I'd proooobably lean towards Fathomless even though he's not strictly water-based. He IS kind of tentacley so that feels right.

If you're going with Sora Kell, then Archfey or Fiend both work since she's a Night Hag and sort of straddles the line between them.

If Vol is your patron then Undead is a no-brainer. Similar if your patron is Katashka the Gatekeeper or his dracolich minion, Mazyralyx.

Rak Tulkesh, the Rage of War, makes a great Hexblade patron.

But with all that said, I think the best patron for you would be Sul Khatesh, the Keeper of Secrets, overlord of occult knowledge. Maybe your character even thinks she's the Shadow, and if anything on the planet could pull that off convincingly it's her. Or if you'd like a more personal relationship, Hektula, her prakhutu, might've made the deal with you instead. In both cases, these are Fiends, and the Fiend patron makes the most sense for them. https://eberron.fandom.com/wiki/Sul_Khatesh

[Arkhios]

First I'd ask myself and/or the DM, what would qualify as 'forbidden knowledge' lorewise, in-game.

Depending on your perspective, one might see any of the patrons offering forbidden knowledge.

[Naanomi]

Celestial is easy if they are sharing things that the Heavens don't think should be in mortal hands (but your patron disagrees and trusts you)

[nickl_2000]

Celestial is easy if they are sharing things that the Heavens don't think should be in mortal hands (but your patron disagrees and trusts you)

It does open up a Prometheus like situation, which could be a cool plot hook for the right DM.

[BerzerkerUnit]

Short answer: Great Old One
Long answer: Any really.
Sideways answer: Homebrew (“https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1I0VueNYDmZXxzo7vNj4vFx1rQdGtnPwE”).

[Azuresun]

Almost any - as previously mentioned, I'm a bit more stuck on this when it comes to Celestial and Hexblade. But I'm sure someone more creative than I can come up with an appealing justification for those two. (Even so, I'd put them towards the bottom of your list unless I saw something truly inspired.)

In Eberron, a Celestial warlock could be an agent of the Undying Court, a revered ancestor with the knowledge of ages.