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Akennedy
2007-11-21, 06:30 AM
Hey, to all jack of all trades playgrounders - I was wondering about some common or particularly powerful Chameleon builds... if anyone has a link to a specific place or even a brief explanation of what to do while making one, I'd be more than happy to hear them! Thank you all!

Amiria
2007-11-21, 06:37 AM
google search, took me 3 seconds.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=360082

Akennedy
2007-11-21, 09:57 PM
Thank You! Sorry to waste your time! :)

BardicDuelist
2007-11-22, 02:29 AM
If you have Dungeonscape, the factotum class lends itself well to the Chameleon PrC (it is even specifically mentioned as doing so in the class description).

Jack_Simth
2007-11-22, 10:37 AM
My biggest issue with the Chameleon PrC is that there is nowhere to go, after.

The Bard-5/Chameleon-10 is a very good character ... but nothing stacks for level 16. Sure, you can take something that locks you in to a particular role... but that doesn't really fit the fluff. Any base class you stick on there is starting from level 1 (or 6, for the Bard you've already taken) and is going to be very far behind on abilities. Stuff from your Chameleon focus specifically cannot be used to qualify for stuff, so you need to qualify for anything you're after from pure Chameleon levels.

Well, I suppose if you went with the Changeling entry to Chameleon, Warshaper would work well....

Edit:
Oh, and for Flavor, my favorite Chameleon build is:
Changling Bard-5/Chameleon-10, feats:
1) Able Learner (required)
3) Improved Initiative (going first is good for everybody)
6) Practiced Spellcaster (Bard) (there's a reason for it)
9) Craft Rod (there's a reason for it)
12) Whatever seems good at the time
15) Whatever seems good at the time

Ideal stat array being straight 14's (36 point buy ain't common, though).

The reason for Practiced Spellcaster(Bard) and Craft Rod:
Your focus for the day can't qualify you for Feats or PrC's. The Chameleon's Flexible Feat at 2nd level requires you actually qualify for whatever you're grabbing. This means (among other things) that you can't get Scribe Scroll (or any other item creation feat) if you don't have a caster level from non-chameleon levels. Hence Practiced Spellcaster (Bard) to get up to caster level 9 - qualify for stuff. Craft Rod is there because you can use your flexible feat to grab metamagic feats - and as item creation isn't excluded from what you can do with your focus for the day, when you hit character level 14 (Chameleon-9) you have a chameleon caster level of 18... and the metamagic rods only require a caster level of 18 - which means you can make them, before anyone else can (well, okay, the Cleric that took Heirophant and three levels of Spell Power can... but other than such tricks...)

kemmotar
2007-11-22, 11:14 AM
Actually after chameleon you can go for master of masks from the complete scoundrel...works well with bard too i think.

BardicDuelist
2007-11-22, 11:20 AM
If you go bard, taking the Virtuoso class works well, as it gives you new things that aren't bad, even at level 15.

Personally, I prefer Factotum instead of Bard for going into chameleon (as I allready said), and the abilities gained tend to scale with level pretty well.

Factotum 10/Chameleon 10 is probably the best Jack-of-All-Trades build available. I personally prefer Factotum 11/Chameleon 9.

Now, this is all a moot point if you never reach level 20.

Temp
2007-11-22, 01:11 PM
Personally, I prefer Factotum instead of Bard for going into chameleon (as I allready said), and the abilities gained tend to scale with level pretty well.
Whatever you do, you need to make sure you can qualify for Extra Spell (and thus have access to every spell in the game under level 7). This probably means you need Caster Level 3 from an entry class.

BardicDuelist
2007-11-22, 01:20 PM
Whatever you do, you need to make sure you can qualify for Extra Spell (and thus have access to every spell in the game under level 7). This probably means you need Caster Level 3 from an entry class.

That's pretty feat intensive for somthing that you can do with a straight base class (Archivist). It doesn't really seem worth it with a chameleon (who has access to all arcane and cleric spells).

Lemur
2007-11-22, 01:32 PM
That's pretty feat intensive for somthing that you can do with a straight base class (Archivist). It doesn't really seem worth it with a chameleon (who has access to all arcane and cleric spells).

Temp does have a point. Chameleons have to keep their arcane spells in book like wizards, so being able to use their extra feat to take Extra Spell means that they can fill up their spellbook with little problems (since they don't get spells from leveling like wizards do). They still do get all divine spells though, so how important being able to take Extra Spell is comes down to just how crazy versatile you want to be.

Temp
2007-11-22, 02:01 PM
That's pretty feat intensive for somthing that you can do with a straight base class (Archivist). It doesn't really seem worth it with a chameleon (who has access to all arcane and cleric spells).You don't necessarily have access to all Arcane Spells, though. You need to find or buy scrolls, which limits your versatility severely. Or you use Extra Spell to add them directly into your spellbook.

And it's not feat-intensive at all. You don't even use a real feat for it. Use the Floating Feat to learn something (say level 1 Haste from the Trapsmith list), scribe it, and shift your feat to a new Extra Spell. This is how you gain the access you mention to every Arcane Spell.

But like Lemur says, if you only want divine spellcasting this is wholly unnecessary.

Draz74
2007-11-22, 02:31 PM
How would Factotum 1 (or 3) / Binder 4 (or 2) / Chameleon 10 / Binder 5 go? Seems like that would preserve the flexibility flavor of the character too.

BardicDuelist
2007-11-22, 02:39 PM
You don't necessarily have access to all Arcane Spells, though. You need to find or buy scrolls, which limits your versatility severely. Or you use Extra Spell to add them directly into your spellbook.

And it's not feat-intensive at all. You don't even use a real feat for it. Use the Floating Feat to learn something (say level 1 Haste from the Trapsmith list), scribe it, and shift your feat to a new Extra Spell. This is how you gain the access you mention to every Arcane Spell.

But like Lemur says, if you only want divine spellcasting this is wholly unnecessary.

Ah, forgot about the floating feat.

kemmotar
2007-11-22, 05:22 PM
How would Factotum 1 (or 3) / Binder 4 (or 2) / Chameleon 10 / Binder 5 go? Seems like that would preserve the flexibility flavor of the character too.

I think that's stretching it a bit much...vestiges might help depending on how you choose and use them, though i don't think that might help very much.

Maybe bard or rogue 5/chameleon 10/master of masks1/bard-rogue4

I'd prefer rogue instead of bard for the SA, the skills and since bard spellcasting is already kinda useless and slow in advancement you advance in rogue for reflex saves and SA. Then you get the gladiator mask from master of masks (proficient with all martial and exotic weapons and +1 to AR and damage). Combat focus and divine focus. Ability boon to dexterity. Now all your saves are through the roof. +6 to fortitude and +4 to will and +3 to reflex(from the ability boon of the chameleon).

You can then take DMM as your floating feat and have persistent spell to use DMM cheese. Then rapid refocus to something else. You can alternatively use the same trick to get bonus str. Have a spiked chain, get beforehand combat expertise and impr trip. You get free exotic weapon proficiency with everything and a +1 to your attack rolls. Impr trip away with your ability boon to str and DMM enlarge person and righteous might you can pretty much trip anything...

As a bonus, you get assassin mask for +1d6 SA and bonus to hide and move silent.

After you add the DMM cheese you can change into stealth focus for extra SA and bonus to hide and move silently.

Temp
2007-11-22, 06:34 PM
...Maybe bard or rogue 5/chameleon 10/master of masks1/bard-rogue4

...

You can then take DMM as your floating feat and have persistent spell to use DMM cheese...Not a bad idea, but where are you getting Turn Undead? If you had Cloistered Cleric levels pre-entrance (or something like CCleric 1/Duskblade 3/Swordsage 1/[Chameleon-Chameleon-Swordsage Alternation] 15) you could pull it off pretty well.

kemmotar
2007-11-22, 07:03 PM
From mimic class feature, though you would need a few nightsticks for this to work since you supposedly get only 1 turn attempt from chameleon,3 if you expend all the turn attempts from mimic class feature. Maybe add once cleric level to the mix and get extra turning...but first works too i think...you could use the floating feat to get extra turning once you turn to divine focus. You do have the ability to turn undead 3 times per day...although somewhat indirectly...i think it would be up to the DM but i think it would work. It's not specified where you're getting turn attempts from:smalltongue:

Temp
2007-11-22, 07:10 PM
From mimic class feature,Chameleon explicitly disallows using anything but the Feat to meet Feat/Class prerequisites (in this case, Turn Undead for DMM). That's the main difficulty in planning Chameleon builds.

kemmotar
2007-11-22, 07:14 PM
Dammit...foiled yet again..
You could add one level of cleric in the mix though and get DMM in your own right and use the floating feat for extra turning. So you have turn attempts on your own. You boost it with the floating feat and already have DMM and extend spell-persistent spell. The build wouldn't change much either:
rogue 4/cleric 1/ chameleon 10/master of masks 1/ rogue 4

Now you have almost every ability in the game...