Casting During Wild Shape at Level 2

[dmhelp]

The other players have agreed to not use summon spells.

Your DM is going to let Druids cast during Wild Shape starting at level 2!!!

How would you adjust the creature CR limits to balance moon vs other druids vs other characters?

[Dualight]

The simplest way: Ask the druid(s) not to pick the Circle of the Moon, or ban it.
As it stands it is the restrictions on Wild Shape that keeps Circle of the Moon something resembling balanced, in my understanding.

A more complex way of handling it would be to limit available Wild Shapes to only those beasts seen after qaining Wild Shape, and tightly controlling which Wild Shapes are available, although that is a lot of extra work for the DM, as they will have to think about balance whenever they want to use a beast of CR 6 or lower.

How disruptive this buff to play(it is the druid's 18th level feature at 2nd!:smalleek:) depends on how willing the player is to abuse it, and on how high the campaign will go.

Another way to nerf Moon druids could be to limit the max Wild Shape CR to another formula, like level/6, instead of the base level/3, and starting them out on CR 1/2. A slightly more elegant solution would be to reduce the available CR at any point by 1, again starting the Moon druid with CR 1/2.

Perhaps by replacing the Circle Forms feature with a template, like those used the summon beast spell, or the optional Primal Companion feature for rangers.

Circle of the Moon is weird enough in terms of balancing without house rules that buff them.

In any case, any rule that grants high-level features at low levels should be carefully considered before implementation.

Finally, when it comes to balancing versus other party members, it will depend on who the party is, and what buffs the other classes get,unless you have a druids-only party.

[Leon]

I'd suggest the DM reconsider, they want to be a Bear all day then they have to give an aspect of the rest of the class to do so. Because ive seen what letting druids run rampart with free in shape casting looks like and you end up with a PC who never leaves that form for any reason

[sithlordnergal]

I'd suggest the DM reconsider, they want to be a Bear all day then they have to give an aspect of the rest of the class to do so. Because ive seen what letting druids run rampart with free in shape casting looks like and you end up with a PC who never leaves that form for any reason

Pretty much this. I have a level 20 Moon Druid that I use in AL. I have never willingly dropped Wild Shape once I gained Beast Spells and Archdruid, not even a single time. Heck, its to the point where my Druid no longer fully remembers if they're a Human, Beast, or Elemental. X3 I essentially play a spell casting Elemental at this point, and while it is a ton of fun for me, I have gotten surprised looks from DMs when I inform them that I Wild Shape mid combat and refresh all my HP without ever leaving Wild Shape.

They also get surprised when they realize they can't cast Counterspell on any of my spells since I ignore Somatic, Verbal, and most Material spell components

[PhantomSoul]

They also get surprised when they realize they can't cast Counterspell on any of my spells since I ignore Somatic, Verbal, and most Material spell components

That last bit is part of why this is even better than an absolutely great 18th-level feature: at least basing it only on the OP, the 18th-level feature restricts you to spells without an M component, but the OP doesn't.

I would just not add this at all given how massive of a power buff it is. Hell, it's huge long-term even if only allowing cantrips! I might make an exception for specific spells that specific characters should be able to cast for story/character reasons as a special separate ability... and even then, you couldn't milk that from just sticking something in your backstory. That's a reward.

[LibraryOgre]

Spells cast in wild shape are different than spells cast in human shape; you can cast Cure Wounds as a bear, but only if you prepared the bear version of Cure Wounds (which uses bear grunts for vocalizations and somatic components that can only really be managed by a bear). To cast it in human shape, or wolf shape, or what have you, you have to prepare that version of the spell.

[Psyren]

Rather than open the floodgates right off the bat, I would suggest to this GM that only certain spells should be castable in wild shape. Perhaps up to two levels below the druid's maximum for instance, or only spells that don't require concentration, or only spells with a range of self etc. That last one would let a druid do something like renew their Barkskin without dropping form, but not be a bear riding a bear summoning bears, or an eagle soaring over the battlefield and dropping Firestorm / Wrath of Nature / etc.

[Melphizard]

Allowing that 18th level ability at level 2 is, as others have mentioned, not advised; but, quite a few moon druids usually have an opening round of:
Action - Cast Concentration Spell
Bonus Action - Wild shape

Allowing them to cast whilst in wildshape just means that as a bonus action they get a large HP buffer, better physical attributes, and greater movement all for practically free with no noticeable downside. Thus, I feel it'd suggest the DM reconsider since it's a level 18th ability for a reason.

[dmhelp]

So putting the Moon Druid aside... this just doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Running around with 11 hp and a ****ty ac at level 2.... You aren't getting the Druid capstone.

If you are adding Beast Spells at level 2 you still can't talk (just make verbal incantations) and you can still be counter spelled.

After thinking about it further I would do the following:
Druid Wild Shape upgrades go from 2/4/8 to 2/5/11.

So for a Moon Druid getting Beast Spells at level 2 I would do the following changes:
Use standard Wild Shape progression and no elemental wild shape.
At level 2 (in addition to the bonus action wild shape and bonus action healing option) you gain beast AC 10 + wis mod if it is greater than the beast's natural AC.
At level 6 (in addition to counting as magical) you gain Extra Attack while in beast form.
At level 10 you gain beast standard AC + wis mod (essentially monk ac unless the beast has a hide bonus to ac).

I would probably also give the Moon Druid something additional at level 10.

That let's people cast in animal form without it being over bearing. And Moon Druid is still significantly better than other Druids at Wild Shape.